MTG Salvation

Hi guys,

I'm new in the forum and in the modern format. I will try with this list of shadow zoo:

https://mtgdecks.net/Modern/losilla-3rd-place-decklist-by-losilla-788183

So, I have a lot of doubts related whith the sideboard plan. If someone could help me with any idea, it will be welcome.

In my local meta, some friends said me that I should expect Phoenix, Burn and UW as majority.

Thanks for your advices.

Regards.

Quote from xngchong »

So, I have a lot of doubts related whith the sideboard plan.

Grudge comes in against artifact decks, such as Whir and Affinity.
Apostle's Blessing comes in against decks that have a lot of removal for your creatures, such as The Rock, and decks that have a lot of board presence that you need to dodge, such as Humans.
Collective Brutality comes in against combo-based decks, such as Ad Nauseam, and is an all-star against Burn as all three modes are relevant.
Fatal Push comes in against decks that run creatures which demand an immediate answer, such as The Rock, Phoenix, and Humans.
Inquisition of Kozilek comes in against decks where you need additional discard alongside Thoughtseize, such as Ad Nauseam, Storm, Amulet (debatable), etc.

Quote from GolgariMage »

Hello,
interested in the blueless decklist played by 2InTheBoard
Since you say you would remove the Blood Moon, what could be the bet option for this slot?
Kozilek's Return?

Thanks

Sure would be helpful if you posted the actual list.

Quote from whocansay »

Quote from Piney_Tinecones »

As far as the edict card is concerned, that’s a good point about Shadow and “go-wide” strategies. They weren’t too excited about it on the Jund thread either it seemed, but that one I don’t understand as much. 'Lots of decks have lots of creatures, and giving the opponent a choice is bad'. Yeah, but it’s Jund. We’re one-for-oneing all their creatures as they put them down, mostly. The opponent’s side of the board really shouldn’t be that wide, if at all.

But there's still no need for an edict effect in Modern. There's no True-Name Nemesis or Sneak and Show here and when we do need an edict effect, LOTV has it covered. There's simply no room for a card like that. What would you cut for it in Jund? Push, Decay, KCommand? Never.

Never? Jund absolutely has a flex slot (or two!) in its removal suite. It changes with the times, but KCommand, Decay, Pulse, Push, Terminate, Trophy, and Dreadbore are all viable inclusions, and are all viable options for swapping with a single Triumph. There’s a need for edict effects like there’s a need for Path. I’m not trying to make a comparison of those two cards, they have many differences. The point is, there’s plenty of difficult-ass creatures to remove in Modern, and Triumph can get around most anything, except multiple creatures, which Jund is well equipped to deal with. There are quite a few decks in Modern with limited creature suites (like Shadow), where Triumph would shine against. Not to mention the discard effect is badass against BGx/Midrange decks where grind and CA really matter. I think to say there’s no need for an edict effect in Modern is a stretch. And yes, we have Lili. But just because I have Push doesn’t mean I’m inherently not going to run Bolt or Terminate or whatever else has an overlapping effect/role. I think the reiteration is great. I’ll be surprised if I don’t see BGx decks playing 1 copy in the 60 in that flex slot with the same frequency as our other flex options.

Sorry, The decklist was:

Quote from 2InTheBoard »

ShadowMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
Lands 4 Verdant Catacombs 4 Bloodstained Mire 2 Polluted Delta 2 Wooded Foothills 2 Overgrown Tomb 1 Blood Crypt 1 Stomping Ground 1 Forest 1 Swamp Creatures 4 Death's Shadow 4 Tarmogoyf 4 Street Wraith 1 Scavenging Ooze	Spells 4 Mishra's Bauble 3 Traverse the Ulvenwald 1 Faithless Looting 4 Thoughtseize 3 Inquisition of Kozilek 4 Fatal Push 2 Dismember 2 Assassin's Trophy 2 Temur Battle Rage 3 Liliana of the Veil 1 Kolaghan's Command	Sideboard 3 Collective Brutality 2 Nihil Spellbomb 1 Grafdigger's Cage 2 Ancient Grudge 1 Lightning Bolt 2 Fulminator Mage 1 Grim Lavamancer 1 Spellskite 1 Maelstrom Pulse 1 Blood Moon

3 LOTV, 1 Kcom, 1 Ooze in an 18-land list is what I'd be more concerned about rather than the Blood Moon. Just replace it with whatever is good for your metagame.

I would play Liliana's Defeat before Liliana's Triumph. And I'd still likely not use either.. But at least defeat has applications against BG rock & GDS, both of which can be problematic. There is literally no archetype in the Tier 1-2 range of modern that Triumph is useful against, except maybe Griahoalbrand, and as mentioned we are favored there anyway.

Arcanist is an interesting card but likely too slow.

Stephen Snelson back in top 8 (SCG IQ) with a jund list, main deck Surgical Extraction. I really like his Sideboard, including 2 additional Surgical, 3 Anger of the Gods, and even a single Ravenous Trap. Seems to be going all-in for the Dredge match up. list for reference

Quote from FuneralofGod »

I would play Liliana's Defeat before Liliana's Triumph. And I'd still likely not use either.. But at least defeat has applications against BG rock & GDS, both of which can be problematic. There is literally no archetype in the Tier 1-2 range of modern that Triumph is useful against, except maybe Griahoalbrand, and as mentioned we are favored there anyway.

Arcanist is an interesting card but likely too slow.

Stephen Snelson back in top 8 (SCG IQ) with a jund list, main deck Surgical Extraction. I really like his Sideboard, including 2 additional Surgical, 3 Anger of the Gods, and even a single Ravenous Trap. Seems to be going all-in for the Dredge match up. list for reference

I’m getting off topic for this thread, as I can see and agree with the point made earlier about our problematic MU’s being go-wide strategies, which Triumph doesn’t address. So as far as JDS is concerned, yeah, Triumph probably isn’t something we’re interested in. But for other Liliana decks, I don’t know if I agree that it has such a limited use as y’all would suggest. I don’t know what is considered Tier 1-2 anymore, but I’m pretty sure that if we’re throwing such a seldom seen deck as Grishoalbrand in there, then Bogles and Infect can be included as well, which triumph would certainly shine against. I think ‘literally no archetype except Grishoalbrand' is a little exaggerated. Also, I’m still not seeing how Triumph wouldn’t be sweet against BGx decks? Can someone explain? Attrition MU’s where CA matters and every creature is must kill, how is Triumph not good there? It even seems good against Death’s Shadow decks, as long as you watch out for Snapcaster. I’m not trying to be contrary, I’m just surprised that there’s such little love for the card. I’m not seeing its uselessness like y’all are.

Quote from Piney_Tinecones »

Also, I’m still not seeing how Triumph wouldn’t be sweet against BGx decks? Can someone explain? Attrition MU’s where CA matters and every creature is must kill, how is Triumph not good there? It even seems good against Death’s Shadow decks, as long as you watch out for Snapcaster. I’m not trying to be contrary, I’m just surprised that there’s such little love for the card. I’m not seeing its uselessness like y’all are.

You're still giving your opponent options. Confidant is a must-kill, and with Push or Bolt or Terminate or Decay or Trophy you know 100% you will get rid of it. Now what if you're holding an edict effect and he also has a Goyf on the table, or a Treetop Village with two mana open? Now Bob sticks and you've basically lost the game on the spot.

Spot removal > edict effects in Modern. Nobody plays edict effects outside of LOTV for a reason, but we've addressed this already.

If you're still not convinced, playtest Triumph against BGx decks and see how you like it. When it hits the sweet spot of killing Kalitas and making your opponent discard a card and you take over the game from there, yeah it'll be pretty good. Whenever your opponent gets to choose though, I'm guessing not so much.

Also, again, what would you cut for it?

We also run only 1-2 Liliana Planeswalkers as opposed to 4-5 like BG rock, so it's way less likely you'll get the discard effect. I'll update my claim that, in addition to Grishoalbrand, it would be great against boggles too because they have Leyline. But this is so narrow.

Looking at all 5 lists that have placed top 8 in the last few weeks, seems like Faithless Looting (albeit as a singleton) is staking its claim as a staple just like in GDS. I've been trying it again in my jund list, but I don't know if I'd run it in 4C just because I hate being pulled in too many directions with color.

I've been living the new mulligan rule on MTGO. Been toying with a more combo oriented list but not quite all-in like Shadow Zoo.


Keeping in my Tron, Affinity, and Dredge - since those seem to be the decks on the rise due to the mulligan change. I like how it feels against Tron, haven't played the other two yet. Won two matches against Phoenix also

Fair enough. I can dig that. I’ll probably playtest it in my regular Jund list just to satiate my curiosity, but your Bob scenario does make a very valid point. An opponent playing BBE into, say, Bob is another good example of a problematic scenario for Triumph. They don’t care if they sac their BBE and keep their Bob or Goyf or whatever, they’ve already gotten their value out of the berserker, and get to keep their best creature.

I appreciate the discourse, fellas.

Speaking of BBE. I played 4C DS for over a year, and I decided recently to return to a more midrange approach.

After testing The Rock & Jund, I have to admit that Midrange Decks lack gas in a metagame dominated by Combo. I test recently a mix-between Jund DS and Jund Midrange. I'm still working on the list, but after few leagues, I have a solid 67% winrate.


The list keeps midrange forces, but offers threats earlier to close the games quickly against combo.

If some of you have already tested this kind of approach, I'm interested in your feedback.

Demoting Temur Battle Rage is going to make you way worse against combo. I don't really see how adding BBE and dropping Inquisition is going to help you against combo either. It looks like you're preparing for more grindy long games such as against BG Rock or UW Control. The list doesn't look bad but it just doesn't line up with your explanations.

Agreed, BBE is pretty miserable against combo. Cutting discard for it makes no sense in my book.

Anyone care to weigh in on this wild list? Nano-G list 5-0

Just looks like a bad mashup of Jund, DSJ and GDS to me.

TBR makes you want to go fast. Ooze makes you go slow. Tarmogoyf wants to be big. Angler shrinks it. Angler wants to be in play as early as possible. No Scours or Baubles make this pretty hard to accomplish. Three maindeck Trophies means you'll be ramping your opponent quite a bit, which is the last thing an aggro deck wants to do.

I could see this being done differently and still working. First I'd say Angler should be Bedlam Reveler, and I certainly wouldn't play 3 Scooze. Some number of Faithless Looting feels right if I went this route. Fetch Bauble scrying is nothing to overlook and I'd say it's worth keeping. Bauble helps keep Tarmogoyf at 5/6 as opposed to the average 4/5 in this list (and to a lesser extent regular jund)

Reveler is good in full on aggro builds that run out of cards fast and as a grindy sideboard option worth Traversing for. Without Traverse I wouldn't bother with it at all.

Been chipping away at a sideboarding guide for our beloved deck. Quite some blanks to fill in still but the core is there in case anyone is interested. Feedback is more than welcome.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vTa8P2ZVyB_eLUQuwWApsEa8fiDDSagrdCxf1HkwjtgCCAhay2GYjierx6vZsD5Z4tV1AgXLJSA8k3T/pubhtml

Very nice. Theres so little sideboard info on this deck

Jund shadow feels dangerous to play due to dredge and Phoenix hate in this meta

I'm not too worried about that, we don't really care about Leyline of the Void and we can recover from Spellbombs. Goyf will always do something. RIP is a problem but the main RIP deck right now is unbeatable for us anyway so I don't even consider that matchup. Surgical is annoying sometimes but we have ways to grind out decks that usually bring it in.

UW and BGx metas are the real issue for our deck, I feel confident enough against anything else.