What are we using Liliana Triumph against exactly? Boggles is not a prevalent enough deck in an open meta game to warrant this valuable Sideboard space. It's not good in the mirror because they can flash in a Snapcaster to sacrifice for it. Against Jund it's usable but I would rather just have a spot removal spell. The "if you control" clause is virtually irrelevant for us because we only play max 1-2 Liliana in the entire 75. I'd rather play Cast Down or Terminate
Liliana's Triumph will compete with those extra spot removal for that sideboard slot; or with Liliana of the Veil herself. It's not a bomb sideboard card, but it's broad enough to at least be taken into consideration. I'd bring it not only against Boggles, but the mirror match (very low chance to backfire), Rocks and UW (match-ups in which I already bring in Lilianas), Izzet Phoenix, Humans (higher variance than a conventional spot removal here), Primeval Titan decks (against those Terminate is better), and probably Burn.
Angrath's Rampage on the other hand, may have three apparently useful modes, but they're actually just two, because edicting artifacts will usually be completely useless. In this case, I find Dreadbore better.
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Who is truer: you who are, or you who are to be?
Currently sleeved: WUR Copycat ft. Stoneforge Mystic
Hi, I have very little experience piloting a GDS, but have an odd question. My deck started as U/B control which began to morph from various experiments. Essentially I ended up with 'Dimir' Death's Shadow, mainly due to not picking up any of the R/B fetches. By far the biggest obstacle in my testing was that losing out on Temur Battle Rage. In my mind GDS plays like a combo deck. I wanted to ask if a strictly 'Dimir" shell is at all worth, with the replacement of Battle Rage coming in the form of Tainted Strike. Finding a replacement to Temur Battle Rage was basically Tainted Strike or bust in terms of straight up trying to win from the one swing. This of course requires Death's Shadow to be at LEAST 9 power for the kill and of course not be chumped. Going this infect route for win con opens up Phyrexian Crusader as a choice for midrange grinding though I may just have a soft spot for that card.
On a side note, the other card I wanted to ask about was a single copy of Postmortem Lunge. Yes its a sorcery, but can facilitate in bring down life total if required. Sadly it would mostly be for recovering a DShadow that may have been lost to graveyard dumping/removal, but arguably less of a dead topdeck than Battlerage/tainted strike.
I know that running strictly 'Dimir" locks out of artifact hate + battle rage. But like I said piloting GDS is pretty foreign to me but would like to hear some thoughts on these tweak options.
I think a better / different substitute in Dimir colors for TBR would be ]Distortion Strike. While the double strike aspect of TBR is nice - I feel like the most important piece is getting past the go wide strategies. Also the split focus of poison/regular damage by bringing in an infect card is a bit annoying.
I think in general you should settle in for the longer games playing dimir, and look to outgrind your opponents with the full set of snapcaster mage - tons of black spot removal cards - and some way to sweep the board of small creatures (at the very least post board). Good luck!
Hi, I have very little experience piloting a GDS, but have an odd question. My deck started as U/B control which began to morph from various experiments. Essentially I ended up with 'Dimir' Death's Shadow, mainly due to not picking up any of the R/B fetches. By far the biggest obstacle in my testing was that losing out on Temur Battle Rage. In my mind GDS plays like a combo deck. I wanted to ask if a strictly 'Dimir" shell is at all worth, with the replacement of Battle Rage coming in the form of Tainted Strike. Finding a replacement to Temur Battle Rage was basically Tainted Strike or bust in terms of straight up trying to win from the one swing. This of course requires Death's Shadow to be at LEAST 9 power for the kill and of course not be chumped. Going this infect route for win con opens up Phyrexian Crusader as a choice for midrange grinding though I may just have a soft spot for that card.
On a side note, the other card I wanted to ask about was a single copy of Postmortem Lunge. Yes its a sorcery, but can facilitate in bring down life total if required. Sadly it would mostly be for recovering a DShadow that may have been lost to graveyard dumping/removal, but arguably less of a dead topdeck than Battlerage/tainted strike.
I know that running strictly 'Dimir" locks out of artifact hate + battle rage. But like I said piloting GDS is pretty foreign to me but would like to hear some thoughts on these tweak options.
Battle Rage is versatile because it lets you double your damage but also to get through blockers. Tainted Strike solves one half, and Apostle's Blessing the other, while also doubling as an anti-removal spell. Personally, I wouldn't play any of those cards.
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Who is truer: you who are, or you who are to be?
Currently sleeved: WUR Copycat ft. Stoneforge Mystic
Hi, I have very little experience piloting a GDS, but have an odd question. My deck started as U/B control which began to morph from various experiments. Essentially I ended up with 'Dimir' Death's Shadow, mainly due to not picking up any of the R/B fetches. By far the biggest obstacle in my testing was that losing out on Temur Battle Rage. In my mind GDS plays like a combo deck. I wanted to ask if a strictly 'Dimir" shell is at all worth, with the replacement of Battle Rage coming in the form of Tainted Strike. Finding a replacement to Temur Battle Rage was basically Tainted Strike or bust in terms of straight up trying to win from the one swing. This of course requires Death's Shadow to be at LEAST 9 power for the kill and of course not be chumped. Going this infect route for win con opens up Phyrexian Crusader as a choice for midrange grinding though I may just have a soft spot for that card.
On a side note, the other card I wanted to ask about was a single copy of Postmortem Lunge. Yes its a sorcery, but can facilitate in bring down life total if required. Sadly it would mostly be for recovering a DShadow that may have been lost to graveyard dumping/removal, but arguably less of a dead topdeck than Battlerage/tainted strike.
I know that running strictly 'Dimir" locks out of artifact hate + battle rage. But like I said piloting GDS is pretty foreign to me but would like to hear some thoughts on these tweak options.
When I was toying with Dimir, I decided to run Echoing Truth maindeck and go for a grindier gameplan. It's certainly no TBR but has its uses (answers maindeck chalice on 1, bridge, huge blowout potential vs phoenix and dredge). Alternative combat tricks simply don't pack the same punch so I gave up on them. I personally don't like cards like Lunge or Claim // Fame but they do work as a one-of to catch opponents offguard. I can understand why one would argue that TBR is more of a dead draw but the card is an allstar: allows you to go over blocks, shortens the clock by a lot, punishes greedy attacks by your opponents, people tend to play around it frequently so they sometimes avoid attacking you or they will double/triple block a Shadow just in case.
I would not run any of these options. TBR is a unique effect. It is a finisher, adds speed, adds evasion, nullifies things like deathtouch and lifelink. It is you best card in a lot of matchups, and the singular reason you are able to win some games. The deck functions without it, but the meta as it exists now wants this to go under combo and trample over Dredge.
You should avoid the trap of "what goes in the TBR slot" when changing colors. There is no other card that does the same thing. Fatal Push in the Lightning Bolt slot, Cast Down in the Terminate slot are things that make sense, but these are all good cards. Don't feel that you need to have one of these "finishers", because they just aren't available in UB.
Play more removal, more discard, more cantrips, or maindeck Liliana (either one) or JVP. Ditch the combo kill, and just make yourself better prepared to play a longer game. It makes the deck as a whole better on the balance. Serum Visions, Collective Brutality, Countersquall, etc, other borderline maindeck cards will generally be more impactful.
One other point. If skipping red is for budgetary reasons, then I definitely understand, lands are expensive. If budget is not an issue, a third color in Shadow is almost entirely free from a deckbuilding standpoint. You play so many fetchlands, and want lots of shocklands (often more than 4). A stock maindeck only has 2~4 red cards right now, but it is very easy to do this with almost no downside.
normally don't really write reports on fnm since it's so small and you don't always face against the best competition but went 4-0 without dropping any games today, so thought I'd report today
r1 I quickly run over that Tooth and Nail deck. G1 I thoughtseize away his overgrowth, leaving him with a tooth and nail, xenagod and emrakul. Later on he draws into a tireless tracker, which I can enable revolt to fatal push. He scoops after that in a salty rage. G2 he keeps a hand of double primal command, double land, utopia sprawl and something else. He doesn't draw into more lands. I boarded out 2 bolts and a dismember for 2 disdainful strokes and an EE (EE migh have been wrong but wanted to have protection against random nonsense)
R2 I quickly 2-0 some white weenie deck. I stabilized game 1 after an early rush. Boarded in double grim lavamancer, k command, liliana, the last hope, EE and double abrade. G2 I stick a t1 lavamancer. he kept a 1 land hand, so I picked off his threats and won when he ran out of threats.
R3 I 2-0 fish. g1 he kept a slow hand which I ripped apart but he started to recover as I didn't draw many threats. I TBR'd for lethal. Game 2 he was stuck on one land and a vial. after a few turns with barely any threats. I decided to put EE on 1 and crack it same turn since he dropped another vial. he conceded to that. I believe I boarded out some combination of dismember, wraiths and thoughtseizes for abrades, k command, anger and EE
Round 4 I crushed UW control. G1 he kept a do nothing hand, which I ripped the Teferi from. Only other spell he resolved which mattered was Timely reinforcements which I made quick work of the tokens. I believe I was able to ride a threat, made him fight e over a lot of creatures then cast a TBR on a snapcaster for lethal. Game 2 he mulled to 6 and I don't even remember what I made hims discard early on. I drew counters for his removal and timely. was able to revolt push his clique to get it off the battlefield.then he was done.
I had a good experience other than the one tooth and nail player who was pretty upset for no real reason
On the question of dimir only: I would love that. Except that TBR is an auto win so often that it is worth the small sacrifice. I echo the above comments, splashing for red is a small price. You don't need to run bolt or anything. In fact, I pretty much run straight Blue-Black except for TBR. Plus, the red mana helps with Engineered Explosives and K-Command out of the board.
One of the things that makes it so that we do need the red is that we don't have access to Force of Will or other similar cards. I'm not an expert, but one of the things that enables Dimir Shadow in legacy is that you can tap out for some of your cards and hold up Force to stop them from preventing damage. In modern, I feel like I have to be a bit more proactive. This may change with Modern Horizons, however.
For modern UB shadow I agree with geneyquakes. There's always cards like Slip Through Space or Rite of Consumption but imo you're better off just playing more grindy cards instead. I still think that since you want 5 shocks you might as well splash for some cards that include red like EE and Kommand you mentioned. Even if your deck is heavy UB you can still splash for a few red cards because the cost to do so is rather low.
Modern is a very different beast from legacy so trying to port that deck here won't net you the same results. The last straight UB shadow list I saw in modern was when Ben Jones tried tinkering with Mausoleum Secrets.
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Modern URBSome variant of Death's Shadow URB Grixis Control (Chapin Version) JFM Storm / Treasure Cruise Delver / Splinter Twin / Infect
I don't have the last Snapcaster so I've been using a KCommand main instead, due to a similar overall manacost and versatility, and it's been working well.
I have many questions, like how to approach certain hard matchups like Dredge, Burn or Grixis Whir. I also want to be leaning more on spells rather than artifacts or enchantments post sideboard considering how well Jace, Vryn's Prodigy synergizes with them. Also the sideboard has many 1ofs since I'm still testing on what works and what doesn't, but it's been solid so far. I'm probably going up to 2 Anger of the Gods since that card is as good against creature decks as Collective Brutality is against Burn.
I have been looking for resources and guides, but study material, tips, and feedback about the list would be very appreciated
Couple of notes regarding your maindeck. I would never run a basic mountain. It seems a bit greedy at first but we are essentially a Dimir deck with a really light red splash so openers with mountain or topdecking a mountain when you needed any other land seems pretty bad. I would also cut the single Looting for the fourth Bauble or a Sleight/Serum. I used to run a split between JVP and Looting but I don't think they work together really well. You end up discarding too many relevant cards over the course of a longer game.
Burn is incredibly fun to play against. Generally, you should fetch for basics and avoid losing too much life. Let them help you, don't help them. It's very easy to notice if a Burn player is experienced or not in this matchup. A good Burn player will be really patient with their spells, looking for an EoT double Bolt/Charm into killing you on their turn. An inexperienced pilot will be really aggressive and you can punish them super hard on the crackback. I do think the matchup improved a bit with them playing Skewer the Critics which forces them to use mana on their turn. A relevant thing to consider is that many Burn players will bring in RiP against us postboard (even if I think it's a mistake to do so) so take this into consideration if you are on the draw and if there is an Angler in your opener.
Dredge is pretty much a race game 1 where you have to hope they don't hit multiple Creeping Chills and eventually Conflag you for lethal. Chill not only provides reach but can put them above TBR range so it's rough. It's winnable tho especially if the Dredge player attacks too often and chip away at your life total instead of preparing some sort of alpha strike with multiple creatures. Postboard things get tricky. Surgical is a hard card to play well in this matchup and requires a lot of practice with it. The spellbomb is a bit easier to utilize. I tend to wait for Chills and Conflags to hit the bin because I generally think that the reach is what makes the matchup hard but you may need to pop it earlier. Don't be hasty but don't be greedy: if you have to use your mana and cannot pay to draw a card, don't be afraid to just exile the graveyard. A relevant interaction in this matchup is that flipping Jace turns on revolt so you can block something with Jace, loot and flip and then cast a Push from your hand to kill an Amalgam. This way you can fog 5-6 damage while flipping Jace on your turn might only save you 2-4 life. Similarly you may keep a fetch and a spellbomb around to crack for revolt. Finally, I think the most important thing to keep in mind in this matchup is to be patient but not too patient as Dredge can and will outgrind you. Don't be afraid to play aggressively if you have the option to do so.
Here is an interesting article by Michael Rapp on the Dredge matchup if you haven't read it yet. Can't really comment on Whir Prison since I don't have many reps against it and I still don't know what to think about the matchup yet.
So far the JtVP has been amazing. It has been overperforming a lot. This past weekend I played a ~50 player tournament where I went 4-2 (technically I went 3-3 because I gave the win to a teammate of mine in the win and in but I won the match anyway) and the Jace was incredible.
Round 1 - 2-0 Humans: Game one - I had a turn 1 Thoughseize to take his Freebooter to protect my 2 Fatal Pushes. He had Double Thalia hand so I had to navigate around that. I dropped a turn 2 Angler and clogged the board. He develloped his board without attacking while I dropped myself to 7 with Angler and double Shadow. He went for the alpha strike where my only out was double removal. I proceded to block and kill the Thalia and another attacker, went down to 3 life and swung back for >20. Game two - I made a "transformational board plan" and proceded to grind. I overloaded him with removal even through a lot of Buglers. I managed to flip a Jace that together with a LtLH helped me control his board and gain virtual card advantage. I won with back to back TBR, using Jace to flashback it.
Round 2 - 2-1 BW Eldrazi: Game one - I kept a decent 7 without a threat. Since I had so many cantrips I figured I'd eventually get there, but my deck was unable to find a threat in time. He went really fast while I got stuck on two lands with pretty much nothing relevant in hand. After I managed to get my three mana I started to develop but he clogged the board with Lingering Souls. I failed to draw into the TBR or DS while he was hitting me with some spirits. He was really close to dead when he killed me and I had TBR on top Though beats... Game two - He kept a good hand with turn 1 Relic of Progenitus, then had also 2 Stranglers, 1 Lingering Souls. It was really tough to fight through the Relic because I kept a turn 2 Angler with a Snapcaster hand. My plan was to force his Relic with my Snapcaster and avoid losing too much to the Relic so I used my TScour on him instead of myself. He popped because I flashed in the Snap to use a removal and I managed to put an Angler on the table on the following turn. After that he played a bunch of lingering souls to chump my angler until he drew blanks and was unable to keep the defenses up. Game three - This game was really close. He had a lot of hand disruption to keep me off of developing my board. We went back and forth until I managed to stick the Jace and flip it to reuse a removal on a Tidehollow Sculler to get the TBR for the win over his Lingering Souls tokens.
Round 3 - 0-2 Dredge: Game one - He had the worst draw I've ever seen a Dredge player have... I managed to keep him off of doing anything relevant and he never dredged the entire game. My deck failed to give me a single threat the entire game and I lost to him hardcasting Bloodghasts and Prized Amalgms... it felt so bad Game two - I TS him on turn 1 to take away a Looting. On turn 2 I IoK to take his Catarthic... he top decked another one and went off... I failed to find any GY interaction/Anger of the Gods... until it was too late. I tried to defend with an Angler and a DS but he ended up Creeping Chilling me to death while I had no Denial ready to protect myself... He was dead on board though...
Round 4 - 1-2 Boggles: Game one - I knew he was on Bogles because he played next to me in the previous round. So I was already sad from getting this pairing. He had a turn 1 Leyline of Sanctity on G1 that really surprised me... He also had a ton of creatures and only 1 aura that I countered. He was hitting me for 1 or 2 a turn for a while until I played an Angler and he started to be on chump block duty. He failed to draw anything useful for a couple of turns and I stole that one. Game two - This game both our decks did nothing. I got rid of his auras with discard and he failed to produce any meaningful threat. I didn't draw a DS so I had just an Angler live... He pathed it and resumed to hit me... I drew no threat and he managed to kill me... Game three - Another depressing game where our decks didn't do anything particularly interesting... His hand was bad and mine didn't do that much either. He had a Bogle with the flying enchant and was chipping me for three a turn. He had a RiP online and I was full of Anglers in my hand. The DS didn't come in time even after I got rid of two boggles with an Anger of the Gods. I tried to dig for a threat and none came. I had to hardcast 2 Street Wraiths to try and "race him" but he removed them with the Paths he was hoarding in his hand...
Round 5 - 2-0 Hardened Scales: Game one - I knew he was on HS so I kept a 1 lander with double removal and double discard and a Serum Visions and a SWraith. I went for his hand and stripped him off of anything useful. I killed every single threat he had and dropped two shadows that one shotted him with TBR. Game two - It gets even easier. I overload with removal while taking out the SWraiths. We went back and forth with Discard and him buying off of Canopies. He extented into an Anger of the Gods that took 3 creatures of his. He started to hit me for Infect. I dropped a LoTV to hold the board and a Jace to get back my removal. I dropped an Angler and a DS on one turn. On the following turn used Jace to flashback a TBR and went in, Dismembered for 4 life his only blocker into a TBR on my DS for a 27 lethal life swing.
Round 6 - 2-0 Hardened Scales: Game one - This was against a friend of mine that I gave the win to and split the prizes. I was kinda tilted from the tough losses against Dredge and Bogles that I didn't feel like playing the Top8. We proceeded to play to see who was the more deserving one. The game one was kinda easy, I got rid of his tougher threats and killed everything else on site. I dropped two DS after dealing with his board and swung for the win. Game two - This one was ridiculous I kept a really risky hand with one land. After the first draw I told him... "Rewarded" there was my second land. I had a TSeize, 1 Kommand, 1 Abrade, 1 LtLH, 1 Jace, 1 Anger of the Gods. I told him... "if you knew how good my hand is you would concede right away". He didn't but I managed to kill every single threat and dropped 1 DS that I rode to victory with.
To summarize, the Jace was stellar the whole tournament. It's such a really versatile card. It's a removal magnet that also helps turning the corner without being that as mana taxing as Snapcaster. I really love him. It's a 100% really better Looting. I'm considering removing the one Looting for the second Jace but that is probably too clunky. The Grim Lavamancer was really unimpressive and has been every time I played it. I'm considering dropping it for a Staticaster or another Ravenous Trap. The Trap has been amazing. 100x times better than the Surgical Extraction, specially against Dredge. Since we have a real clock we can handle the card disadvantage and really hit them hard. Against Phoenix it plays the same role as Surgical so I don't really mind the swap to improve the Dredge matchup a bit.
I'm also eager to try out Baby Jace in both legacy and modern Shsdow lists, glad he worked out for you!
The only critism i have is why only 3 thought scour? With Jace as a filter outlet, Looting seems out of place in your list and i would ditch it for the 4th scour.
Edit: I've been trying out Sleight of Hand over Visions in a couple of games and i cannot complain so far
I'm also eager to try out Baby Jace in both legacy and modern Shsdow lists, glad he worked out for you!
The only critism i have is why only 3 thought scour? With Jace as a filter outlet, Looting seems out of place in your list and i would ditch it for the 4th scour.
Edit: I've been trying out Sleight of Hand over Visions in a couple of games and i cannot complain so far
I'm going to be honest with you. I was playing 61 cards with the 4th Scour in. To be honest I'm not 100% set on the cantrip suite I should have. I had too many times where I had too many TScours in hand and looking for that specific card, typically a land, and Looting helps more than TScour in that. Looting is a Dark Ritual for Angler like TScour is, while having the chance to filter your hand and get rid of dead cards which is particularly interesting on G1.
It has its merits and its flaws. Jace is a good filter but it's susceptible to removal so I avoid getting it out on curve, while the Looting doesn't have that problem.
On SV thing, I hate the card with so much passion, but it works wonderfully on this deck. I play UW Control and I refuse to play it ever since Opt got printed. On GDS it's a really amazing card. The drawback of drawing before scrying is mitigated by the fact that we are super mana constrained that it has little impact. For a Control deck it's way more important to draw the right card right away, but for us it doesn't matter. Sleigh of Hand feels really subpar, it's a combo card because there's not enough good cantrips in the format. That's my take on it.
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Currently Playing: WUMiracles ControlUW RUBGrixis Death's ShadowBUR
I don't have access to MTGO, so I'm curious for those who do how this deck fares with the london mulligan rule? Starting a game against an opponent who went to five with IoK or Thoughtseize feels so big, especially as synergistic decks try to take over. However, those synergistic decks are getting better.
I don't have access to MTGO, so I'm curious for those who do how this deck fares with the london mulligan rule? Starting a game against an opponent who went to five with IoK or Thoughtseize feels so big, especially as synergistic decks try to take over. However, those synergistic decks are getting better.
So far it has been great for me. Too many people mulliganning way too aggressive because they can and then they get hit by a turn 1 discard spell and their hand just gets torn apart. It has been strangely funny against Boggles. I don't play with any edict effects on my 75 but now they are force the mulligan to get the Leyline of Sanctity and I just outrace them soooo easily because they lack the cards to make a threat big enough to kill me. It only gets tough if they mulligan to Leyline into RIP. That makes it really hard to race because they can just durdle a while and set up an alpha strike. Luckily they haven't been approaching the matchup this way.
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Currently Playing: WUMiracles ControlUW RUBGrixis Death's ShadowBUR
I'm also eager to try out Baby Jace in both legacy and modern Shsdow lists, glad he worked out for you!
The only critism i have is why only 3 thought scour? With Jace as a filter outlet, Looting seems out of place in your list and i would ditch it for the 4th scour.
Edit: I've been trying out Sleight of Hand over Visions in a couple of games and i cannot complain so far
I'm going to be honest with you. I was playing 61 cards with the 4th Scour in. To be honest I'm not 100% set on the cantrip suite I should have. I had too many times where I had too many TScours in hand and looking for that specific card, typically a land, and Looting helps more than TScour in that. Looting is a Dark Ritual for Angler like TScour is, while having the chance to filter your hand and get rid of dead cards which is particularly interesting on G1.
It has its merits and its flaws. Jace is a good filter but it's susceptible to removal so I avoid getting it out on curve, while the Looting doesn't have that problem.
On SV thing, I hate the card with so much passion, but it works wonderfully on this deck. I play UW Control and I refuse to play it ever since Opt got printed. On GDS it's a really amazing card. The drawback of drawing before scrying is mitigated by the fact that we are super mana constrained that it has little impact. For a Control deck it's way more important to draw the right card right away, but for us it doesn't matter. Sleigh of Hand feels really subpar, it's a combo card because there's not enough good cantrips in the format. That's my take on it.
Thank you for you insight!
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Modern // Legacy // Pauper WUBRG
"Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire."
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Affinity
GR Eggs GR
UR Storm UR
BR Hollow One BR
WUR Cheerios WUR
G Mono-Green Control G
Draft My Cube!
Angrath's Rampage on the other hand, may have three apparently useful modes, but they're actually just two, because edicting artifacts will usually be completely useless. In this case, I find Dreadbore better.
Currently sleeved:
WUR Copycat ft. Stoneforge Mystic
On a side note, the other card I wanted to ask about was a single copy of Postmortem Lunge. Yes its a sorcery, but can facilitate in bring down life total if required. Sadly it would mostly be for recovering a DShadow that may have been lost to graveyard dumping/removal, but arguably less of a dead topdeck than Battlerage/tainted strike.
I know that running strictly 'Dimir" locks out of artifact hate + battle rage. But like I said piloting GDS is pretty foreign to me but would like to hear some thoughts on these tweak options.
I think in general you should settle in for the longer games playing dimir, and look to outgrind your opponents with the full set of snapcaster mage - tons of black spot removal cards - and some way to sweep the board of small creatures (at the very least post board). Good luck!
Battle Rage is versatile because it lets you double your damage but also to get through blockers. Tainted Strike solves one half, and Apostle's Blessing the other, while also doubling as an anti-removal spell. Personally, I wouldn't play any of those cards.
Currently sleeved:
WUR Copycat ft. Stoneforge Mystic
When I was toying with Dimir, I decided to run Echoing Truth maindeck and go for a grindier gameplan. It's certainly no TBR but has its uses (answers maindeck chalice on 1, bridge, huge blowout potential vs phoenix and dredge). Alternative combat tricks simply don't pack the same punch so I gave up on them. I personally don't like cards like Lunge or Claim // Fame but they do work as a one-of to catch opponents offguard. I can understand why one would argue that TBR is more of a dead draw but the card is an allstar: allows you to go over blocks, shortens the clock by a lot, punishes greedy attacks by your opponents, people tend to play around it frequently so they sometimes avoid attacking you or they will double/triple block a Shadow just in case.
UB Fae
TES
Pox
You should avoid the trap of "what goes in the TBR slot" when changing colors. There is no other card that does the same thing. Fatal Push in the Lightning Bolt slot, Cast Down in the Terminate slot are things that make sense, but these are all good cards. Don't feel that you need to have one of these "finishers", because they just aren't available in UB.
Play more removal, more discard, more cantrips, or maindeck Liliana (either one) or JVP. Ditch the combo kill, and just make yourself better prepared to play a longer game. It makes the deck as a whole better on the balance. Serum Visions, Collective Brutality, Countersquall, etc, other borderline maindeck cards will generally be more impactful.
One other point. If skipping red is for budgetary reasons, then I definitely understand, lands are expensive. If budget is not an issue, a third color in Shadow is almost entirely free from a deckbuilding standpoint. You play so many fetchlands, and want lots of shocklands (often more than 4). A stock maindeck only has 2~4 red cards right now, but it is very easy to do this with almost no downside.
r1 I quickly run over that Tooth and Nail deck. G1 I thoughtseize away his overgrowth, leaving him with a tooth and nail, xenagod and emrakul. Later on he draws into a tireless tracker, which I can enable revolt to fatal push. He scoops after that in a salty rage. G2 he keeps a hand of double primal command, double land, utopia sprawl and something else. He doesn't draw into more lands. I boarded out 2 bolts and a dismember for 2 disdainful strokes and an EE (EE migh have been wrong but wanted to have protection against random nonsense)
R2 I quickly 2-0 some white weenie deck. I stabilized game 1 after an early rush. Boarded in double grim lavamancer, k command, liliana, the last hope, EE and double abrade. G2 I stick a t1 lavamancer. he kept a 1 land hand, so I picked off his threats and won when he ran out of threats.
R3 I 2-0 fish. g1 he kept a slow hand which I ripped apart but he started to recover as I didn't draw many threats. I TBR'd for lethal. Game 2 he was stuck on one land and a vial. after a few turns with barely any threats. I decided to put EE on 1 and crack it same turn since he dropped another vial. he conceded to that. I believe I boarded out some combination of dismember, wraiths and thoughtseizes for abrades, k command, anger and EE
Round 4 I crushed UW control. G1 he kept a do nothing hand, which I ripped the Teferi from. Only other spell he resolved which mattered was Timely reinforcements which I made quick work of the tokens. I believe I was able to ride a threat, made him fight e over a lot of creatures then cast a TBR on a snapcaster for lethal. Game 2 he mulled to 6 and I don't even remember what I made hims discard early on. I drew counters for his removal and timely. was able to revolt push his clique to get it off the battlefield.then he was done.
I had a good experience other than the one tooth and nail player who was pretty upset for no real reason
One of the things that makes it so that we do need the red is that we don't have access to Force of Will or other similar cards. I'm not an expert, but one of the things that enables Dimir Shadow in legacy is that you can tap out for some of your cards and hold up Force to stop them from preventing damage. In modern, I feel like I have to be a bit more proactive. This may change with Modern Horizons, however.
Modern is a very different beast from legacy so trying to port that deck here won't net you the same results. The last straight UB shadow list I saw in modern was when Ben Jones tried tinkering with Mausoleum Secrets.
URB Some variant of Death's Shadow
URB Grixis Control (Chapin Version)
JFM Storm / Treasure Cruise Delver / Splinter Twin / InfectCommander/EDH
This pile of cards when I feel like it
Death's Shadow discord link
I've recently managed to build the deck and I'm loving it so far. Been playing with this list
4 Death's Shadow
4 Gurmag Angler
4 Street Wraith
2 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
2 Snapcaster Mage
Spells:
1 Faithless Looting
4 Thought Scour
4 Stubborn Denial
3 Mishra's Bauble
4 Fatal Push
1 Kolaghan's Command
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Thoughtseize
2 Temur Battle Rage
2 Dismember
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Flooded Strand
2 Blood Crypt
2 Watery Grave
1 Steam Vents
1 Mountain
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Disdainful Stroke
1 Ceremonious Rejection
1 Pithing Needle
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Abrade
1 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Liliana of the Veil
2 Collective Brutality
I don't have the last Snapcaster so I've been using a KCommand main instead, due to a similar overall manacost and versatility, and it's been working well.
I have many questions, like how to approach certain hard matchups like Dredge, Burn or Grixis Whir. I also want to be leaning more on spells rather than artifacts or enchantments post sideboard considering how well Jace, Vryn's Prodigy synergizes with them. Also the sideboard has many 1ofs since I'm still testing on what works and what doesn't, but it's been solid so far. I'm probably going up to 2 Anger of the Gods since that card is as good against creature decks as Collective Brutality is against Burn.
I have been looking for resources and guides, but study material, tips, and feedback about the list would be very appreciated
Burn is incredibly fun to play against. Generally, you should fetch for basics and avoid losing too much life. Let them help you, don't help them. It's very easy to notice if a Burn player is experienced or not in this matchup. A good Burn player will be really patient with their spells, looking for an EoT double Bolt/Charm into killing you on their turn. An inexperienced pilot will be really aggressive and you can punish them super hard on the crackback. I do think the matchup improved a bit with them playing Skewer the Critics which forces them to use mana on their turn. A relevant thing to consider is that many Burn players will bring in RiP against us postboard (even if I think it's a mistake to do so) so take this into consideration if you are on the draw and if there is an Angler in your opener.
Dredge is pretty much a race game 1 where you have to hope they don't hit multiple Creeping Chills and eventually Conflag you for lethal. Chill not only provides reach but can put them above TBR range so it's rough. It's winnable tho especially if the Dredge player attacks too often and chip away at your life total instead of preparing some sort of alpha strike with multiple creatures. Postboard things get tricky. Surgical is a hard card to play well in this matchup and requires a lot of practice with it. The spellbomb is a bit easier to utilize. I tend to wait for Chills and Conflags to hit the bin because I generally think that the reach is what makes the matchup hard but you may need to pop it earlier. Don't be hasty but don't be greedy: if you have to use your mana and cannot pay to draw a card, don't be afraid to just exile the graveyard. A relevant interaction in this matchup is that flipping Jace turns on revolt so you can block something with Jace, loot and flip and then cast a Push from your hand to kill an Amalgam. This way you can fog 5-6 damage while flipping Jace on your turn might only save you 2-4 life. Similarly you may keep a fetch and a spellbomb around to crack for revolt. Finally, I think the most important thing to keep in mind in this matchup is to be patient but not too patient as Dredge can and will outgrind you. Don't be afraid to play aggressively if you have the option to do so.
Here is an interesting article by Michael Rapp on the Dredge matchup if you haven't read it yet. Can't really comment on Whir Prison since I don't have many reps against it and I still don't know what to think about the matchup yet.
UB Fae
TES
Pox
4 Gurmag Angler
1 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Street Wraith
2 Dismember
3 Fatal Push
2 Lightning Bolt
1 Faithless Looting
3 Mishra's Bauble
2 Serum Visions
3 Thought Scour
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Temur Battle Rage
4 Thoughtseize
2 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Flooded Strand
1 Island
4 Polluted Delta
1 Steam Vents
1 Swamp
2 Watery Grave
1 Abrade
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Ceremonious Rejection
2 Collective Brutality
1 Disdainful Stroke
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Kolaghan's Command
2 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Ravenous Trap
1 Stubborn Denial
1 Surgical Extraction
Round 1 - 2-0 Humans:
Game one - I had a turn 1 Thoughseize to take his Freebooter to protect my 2 Fatal Pushes. He had Double Thalia hand so I had to navigate around that. I dropped a turn 2 Angler and clogged the board. He develloped his board without attacking while I dropped myself to 7 with Angler and double Shadow. He went for the alpha strike where my only out was double removal. I proceded to block and kill the Thalia and another attacker, went down to 3 life and swung back for >20.
Game two - I made a "transformational board plan" and proceded to grind. I overloaded him with removal even through a lot of Buglers. I managed to flip a Jace that together with a LtLH helped me control his board and gain virtual card advantage. I won with back to back TBR, using Jace to flashback it.
Round 2 - 2-1 BW Eldrazi:
Game one - I kept a decent 7 without a threat. Since I had so many cantrips I figured I'd eventually get there, but my deck was unable to find a threat in time. He went really fast while I got stuck on two lands with pretty much nothing relevant in hand. After I managed to get my three mana I started to develop but he clogged the board with Lingering Souls. I failed to draw into the TBR or DS while he was hitting me with some spirits. He was really close to dead when he killed me and I had TBR on top Though beats...
Game two - He kept a good hand with turn 1 Relic of Progenitus, then had also 2 Stranglers, 1 Lingering Souls. It was really tough to fight through the Relic because I kept a turn 2 Angler with a Snapcaster hand. My plan was to force his Relic with my Snapcaster and avoid losing too much to the Relic so I used my TScour on him instead of myself. He popped because I flashed in the Snap to use a removal and I managed to put an Angler on the table on the following turn. After that he played a bunch of lingering souls to chump my angler until he drew blanks and was unable to keep the defenses up.
Game three - This game was really close. He had a lot of hand disruption to keep me off of developing my board. We went back and forth until I managed to stick the Jace and flip it to reuse a removal on a Tidehollow Sculler to get the TBR for the win over his Lingering Souls tokens.
Round 3 - 0-2 Dredge:
Game one - He had the worst draw I've ever seen a Dredge player have... I managed to keep him off of doing anything relevant and he never dredged the entire game. My deck failed to give me a single threat the entire game and I lost to him hardcasting Bloodghasts and Prized Amalgms... it felt so bad
Game two - I TS him on turn 1 to take away a Looting. On turn 2 I IoK to take his Catarthic... he top decked another one and went off... I failed to find any GY interaction/Anger of the Gods... until it was too late. I tried to defend with an Angler and a DS but he ended up Creeping Chilling me to death while I had no Denial ready to protect myself... He was dead on board though...
Round 4 - 1-2 Boggles:
Game one - I knew he was on Bogles because he played next to me in the previous round. So I was already sad from getting this pairing. He had a turn 1 Leyline of Sanctity on G1 that really surprised me... He also had a ton of creatures and only 1 aura that I countered. He was hitting me for 1 or 2 a turn for a while until I played an Angler and he started to be on chump block duty. He failed to draw anything useful for a couple of turns and I stole that one.
Game two - This game both our decks did nothing. I got rid of his auras with discard and he failed to produce any meaningful threat. I didn't draw a DS so I had just an Angler live... He pathed it and resumed to hit me... I drew no threat and he managed to kill me...
Game three - Another depressing game where our decks didn't do anything particularly interesting... His hand was bad and mine didn't do that much either. He had a Bogle with the flying enchant and was chipping me for three a turn. He had a RiP online and I was full of Anglers in my hand. The DS didn't come in time even after I got rid of two boggles with an Anger of the Gods. I tried to dig for a threat and none came. I had to hardcast 2 Street Wraiths to try and "race him" but he removed them with the Paths he was hoarding in his hand...
Round 5 - 2-0 Hardened Scales:
Game one - I knew he was on HS so I kept a 1 lander with double removal and double discard and a Serum Visions and a SWraith. I went for his hand and stripped him off of anything useful. I killed every single threat he had and dropped two shadows that one shotted him with TBR.
Game two - It gets even easier. I overload with removal while taking out the SWraiths. We went back and forth with Discard and him buying off of Canopies. He extented into an Anger of the Gods that took 3 creatures of his. He started to hit me for Infect. I dropped a LoTV to hold the board and a Jace to get back my removal. I dropped an Angler and a DS on one turn. On the following turn used Jace to flashback a TBR and went in, Dismembered for 4 life his only blocker into a TBR on my DS for a 27 lethal life swing.
Round 6 - 2-0 Hardened Scales:
Game one - This was against a friend of mine that I gave the win to and split the prizes. I was kinda tilted from the tough losses against Dredge and Bogles that I didn't feel like playing the Top8. We proceeded to play to see who was the more deserving one. The game one was kinda easy, I got rid of his tougher threats and killed everything else on site. I dropped two DS after dealing with his board and swung for the win.
Game two - This one was ridiculous I kept a really risky hand with one land. After the first draw I told him... "Rewarded" there was my second land. I had a TSeize, 1 Kommand, 1 Abrade, 1 LtLH, 1 Jace, 1 Anger of the Gods. I told him... "if you knew how good my hand is you would concede right away". He didn't but I managed to kill every single threat and dropped 1 DS that I rode to victory with.
To summarize, the Jace was stellar the whole tournament. It's such a really versatile card. It's a removal magnet that also helps turning the corner without being that as mana taxing as Snapcaster. I really love him. It's a 100% really better Looting. I'm considering removing the one Looting for the second Jace but that is probably too clunky. The Grim Lavamancer was really unimpressive and has been every time I played it. I'm considering dropping it for a Staticaster or another Ravenous Trap. The Trap has been amazing. 100x times better than the Surgical Extraction, specially against Dredge. Since we have a real clock we can handle the card disadvantage and really hit them hard. Against Phoenix it plays the same role as Surgical so I don't really mind the swap to improve the Dredge matchup a bit.
WUMiracles ControlUW
RUBGrixis Death's ShadowBUR
I'm also eager to try out Baby Jace in both legacy and modern Shsdow lists, glad he worked out for you!
The only critism i have is why only 3 thought scour? With Jace as a filter outlet, Looting seems out of place in your list and i would ditch it for the 4th scour.
Edit: I've been trying out Sleight of Hand over Visions in a couple of games and i cannot complain so far
Modern // Legacy // Pauper
WUBRG
"Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire."
It has its merits and its flaws. Jace is a good filter but it's susceptible to removal so I avoid getting it out on curve, while the Looting doesn't have that problem.
On SV thing, I hate the card with so much passion, but it works wonderfully on this deck. I play UW Control and I refuse to play it ever since Opt got printed. On GDS it's a really amazing card. The drawback of drawing before scrying is mitigated by the fact that we are super mana constrained that it has little impact. For a Control deck it's way more important to draw the right card right away, but for us it doesn't matter. Sleigh of Hand feels really subpar, it's a combo card because there's not enough good cantrips in the format. That's my take on it.
WUMiracles ControlUW
RUBGrixis Death's ShadowBUR
WUMiracles ControlUW
RUBGrixis Death's ShadowBUR
Thank you for you insight!
Modern // Legacy // Pauper
WUBRG
"Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire."