How does the non bob and optionally grim flayer lists feels about discovery // dispersal? It is an instant and a sorcery and it is card selection? Can aldo putvother cards in the yeard.
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I'm running her with the trackers, and they work so well together. The life gain has been good, especially since flipping her off bob hurts. What do you think the best number for her is. I'm currently only running one, but I'm thinking about running a second one in the side.
3 is too many main for sure. A 1/1 split would be fine a suspect assuming you've got the space. Basically, I suspect BG can lean just a tad towards either control or aggro. There just aren't really that many flex spots but the couple that are there basically reveal how quickly you're trying to close the game out vs how long you're willing to let it go.
1. Yes, definitely replace Abrupt Decays with Assassin's Trophy. I would cut all Decay and add Trophies instead. I like one more all in removal in Rock (I would do it the same in Abzan) but I prefer Pulse. It's slower and an instant which makes it worse against aggro decks but it's an additional removal for Jace and Teferi and other problematic permanents that Decay can't hit.
2. Concerning manabase I would cut Stirring Wildwood. Reach can be useful but it's too expensive for what it does. I would replace it with Treetop Village which provides only green (that can be a bit sketchy in a 3 color deck) but it's much better manland overall.
3. Other changes that I would make are to add 4th Fatal Push. You want enough early interaction against faster decks and Path to Exile is not a card you want to play in the first couple of turns unless it's absolutely necessary. Personally I would cut 1 Path for 1 Push, leaving you with 4 Push and 2 Path.
4. Other than that I would try to fit in third Tireless Tracker. I think he's really good in Rock and assume the same is true for Abzan. Maybe instead of 4th Confidant. I like Confidant but he's not the best against aggro decks and thus playing 3 might be enough (I play 3 copies in Jund for example). I'm not sure about that and all 4 Confidants may be perfectly fine but playing all 4 is not set in stone and he's worse in Abzan than in Jund.
I was thinking more or less the same. Thanks!
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Dredge is a matchup that makes me happy I have a Kalitas and a pair of Nihil Spellbombs in my side. It seemed for a little while as though people were moving away from these more value-oriented graveyard hate pieces in favor of options like Leyline of the Void and Surgical Extraction; and, while those are both still fine options (I myself run a lone Surgical), the more “old-fashioned” forms of graveyard interaction seem to shine against Dredge.
What I’m wondering is whether it’s worth bringing back Flaying Tendrils. The card isn’t as appealing as it used to be due to the printing of Creeping Chill, which allows them to be less all-in on their creature beats.
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I've been considering Abzan (or more like GB splashing white than true Abzan) to get access to RIP for this match-up. Creeping Chill has to hit the GY to trigger, so why not prevent it from getting there in the first place?
The obvious downside though is that it is a NOBO with Goyf/Lingering Souls. Perhaps take those out in this match-up and replace with something less GY reliant? Possibly a terrible idea as I am still new to this archetype. I am not sure I want Leyline of the Void though as this deck doesn't have access to looting effects to pitch it when top-decked mid/late game.
I've been considering Abzan (or more like GB splashing white than true Abzan) to get access to RIP for this match-up. Creeping Chill has to hit the GY to trigger, so why not prevent it from getting there in the first place?
The obvious downside though is that it is a NOBO with Goyf/Lingering Souls. Perhaps take those out in this match-up and replace with something less GY reliant? Possibly a terrible idea as I am still new to this archetype. I am not sure I want Leyline of the Void though as this deck doesn't have access to looting effects to pitch it when top-decked mid/late game.
There are a couple of effects to pitch Leylines or other junk. Neither is looting but Collective Brutality benefits from Escalation. Lili doesn't care if you have a card or not, but if you have more than one and one happens to be a superfluous Leyline, there's a little benefit there.
There are a couple of effects to pitch Leylines or other junk. Neither is looting but Collective Brutality benefits from Escalation. Lili doesn't care if you have a card or not, but if you have more than one and one happens to be a superfluous Leyline, there's a little benefit there.
Fair enough. After mulling on it a bit and browsing some Abzan lists, a more effective approach than my original idea may be some combination of Surgical/Spellbomb in the board and possibly Kalitas and Anafenza main deck. I've seen a few people mention the latter, and I imagine it has the potential to be impactful in multiple match-ups (Dredge, Hollow One, etc.)
Ive been playing with flaying tendrils as the second damnation and it has been great. In combination with removal it stacks together very nicely. It is also good against other go wide decks as well with three mana being very important
I don't think Flaying Tendrils is good enough. Exiling their creatures is obviously good but it doesn't deal with Prized Amalgam which is a key weakness imo.
Yeah, that’s always been a big miss, and now it’s even less reliable of a way to slam the door shut on Dredge thanks to Chill.
Still, if Tendrils is in a decent place across the rest of the meta, then it may be worth considering. My philosophy with this deck is that sideboard cards don’t have to be blowouts, they just have to represent above average efficiency most of the time, so long as they’re wide enough to see a lot of use.
I've been considering Abzan (or more like GB splashing white than true Abzan) to get access to RIP for this match-up. Creeping Chill has to hit the GY to trigger, so why not prevent it from getting there in the first place?
The obvious downside though is that it is a NOBO with Goyf/Lingering Souls. Perhaps take those out in this match-up and replace with something less GY reliant? Possibly a terrible idea as I am still new to this archetype. I am not sure I want Leyline of the Void though as this deck doesn't have access to looting effects to pitch it when top-decked mid/late game.
I would echo the warnings of other posters that advised against running RiP. However, if you do want to try Peaceful Abzan, I’d exclude Souls from your 75 entirely, playing straight BG main with just RiP and Stony in the side. It will still be a pretty rough negative synergy with Goyf, who is often incredibly good against graveyard-centric decks, but at least you’d be giving yourself the best chance to succeed that way.
Ive been playing with flaying tendrils as the second damnation and it has been great. In combination with removal it stacks together very nicely. It is also good against other go wide decks as well with three mana being very important
Yep, the fact that it can be just a three-mana sweeper against weenies is a big deal. I might bring the card back into the fold sometime soon and test it further.
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I think RiP hurts you too much. It turns Goyf into 0/1 creature not doing anything, Ooze becomes a Grizzly bear and you get only half part of Lingering Souls. This is too much to be worth playing. You are better with playing Nihil Spellbom and Surgical Extraction which will do fine job against Dredge but won't hurt your deck at the same time.
Completely agree on that. RiP disables too many things in our deck..
Don't want to sound rude but this isn't threat for the budget version of a deck. You should look at the budget forum. Hopefully you find there what you're looking for.
Actually I would appreciate it if you found something better to do. Hopefully you just kinda go away. Infraction issued for flaming. Budget talk has its own subforum. --CavalryWolfPack
"To keep things 100, anything I state is an opinion and not intended to be a fact. Any and all suggestions I give are a 100% opinion. If you need further clarification take the conversation to a PM. I am not in the business of assuming things. I'm only interested in 1 business and that business serves 2 things, Cold L's and Hot Dub's."
Don't want to sound rude but this isn't threat for the budget version of a deck. You should look at the budget forum. Hopefully you find there what you're looking for.
Actually I would appreciate it if you found something better to do. Hopefully you just kinda go away.
No reason to start a mudfight. The choice of words could be more subtile, but what he was trying to say, budget aside, is that Abzan Midrange/Traverse and BG Rock are very very different strategies from what you are trying to do.
I would advice you to have a look at the Abzan Liege or the GW creature toolbox decks, which have more in common with what you are trying to do.
@kysg Budget discussion in competitive threats is against the forum rules. So I would advice reading through them before flaming like that:
Only discuss budget lists/card choices/ideas in the Budget subforum
Budget lists need to go in the Budget forum. Do not post a budget question in the main version of a deck. For instance, do not ask about budget replacements to Tarmogoyf in the Junk thread.
Users who post about budget lists, cards, or options outside of the Budget subforum will be warned/infracted accordingly.
@kysg Budget discussion in competitive threats is against the forum rules. So I would advice reading through them before flaming like that:
Advice not really helping...anyways forget it. Thanks...
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"To keep things 100, anything I state is an opinion and not intended to be a fact. Any and all suggestions I give are a 100% opinion. If you need further clarification take the conversation to a PM. I am not in the business of assuming things. I'm only interested in 1 business and that business serves 2 things, Cold L's and Hot Dub's."
Moving on. Past 2 weekends, multiple rock lists have made Day 2 at the SCG open. Sadly none made top 32 at both events. The meta is pretty hostile for BGX but modern is so cyclic, itll probably be favorable for us soon enough.
Going to run out Golgari Midrange to the LGS tonight to mix things up. Thoughts on this? I don't own Dark Confidant any longer, but I'm also not sure it's great in an aggressive metagame.
Going to run out Golgari Midrange to the LGS tonight to mix things up. Thoughts on this? I don't own Dark Confidant any longer, but I'm also not sure it's great in an aggressive metagame.
I’m working on a Rock deck at the moment from Jund, so I’m having to switch my train of thought a little, but I do have a couple of thoughts on this since it’s fresh on my mind.
***The following is inaccurate, according to Delver, and I would trust him more. I saw a couple of lists on MTGO competitive league running this landbase, but maybe they were just lucky to get away with it.***
One is RUN MORE TREETOP! I’m not yelling at you, I’m just adding emphasis to emphasize my passion for the ape land. It makes me sad that I feel the 24 land Jund build is correct, and that our spellbase is too demanding to run a Treetop in the 24 land build. It’s simply the best manland when the mana diversity isn’t a limiting factor. And in this situation, I think you’re perfectly fine running 3x Treetop and 1x Quagmire.
***I still stand by this 100%***
The second is that, man, if my curve is that low and my manabase is that painless, I’d be running the s*** out of some Bobs and ditch the Tasigurs. Ideally, that is, and in my opinion. I know you said you don’t have them anymore and I think there are those out there that would prefer Goyfs #5 and #6 instead of Bob and would gladly rely on Tracker (and the occasional Tasigur ability) for CA instead of Bob. But if you had a choice, I think the right choice would be to rely on Bob AND Tracker for stupid amounts of CA.
Just my $0.02 on an archetype I’m not that familiar with (though I am familiar with the roster).
So here's the list I've been working on. I would greatly appreciate any and all input, as I'm probably about to order the few cards I need (that I don't own from already owning Jund) to complete this list. So if I'm screwing up somewhere, I'd like to know so I don't order anything I don't need. This list appears extremely competitive on paper, and has proved so on Cockatrice (though I know there's always the possibility that that anecdotal data is skewed). Honestly I'm not sure why I haven't seen more Rock decks placing after playing around with this one.
I'm really up in the air on that second Brutality in the main. I feel like it could be better suited as something else, but I'm not certain. I'm pretty pleased with the sideboard, but Cage and Sphere are flex slots in my opinion. It feels really streamlined, and really well equipped for the meta (my LGS seems to be mimicking the pro tour right now). With that said, it's a new archetype for me and I could be way off. I would greatly appreciate some input!
Thanks, as always.
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3 is too many main for sure. A 1/1 split would be fine a suspect assuming you've got the space. Basically, I suspect BG can lean just a tad towards either control or aggro. There just aren't really that many flex spots but the couple that are there basically reveal how quickly you're trying to close the game out vs how long you're willing to let it go.
Dredge is a matchup that makes me happy I have a Kalitas and a pair of Nihil Spellbombs in my side. It seemed for a little while as though people were moving away from these more value-oriented graveyard hate pieces in favor of options like Leyline of the Void and Surgical Extraction; and, while those are both still fine options (I myself run a lone Surgical), the more “old-fashioned” forms of graveyard interaction seem to shine against Dredge.
What I’m wondering is whether it’s worth bringing back Flaying Tendrils. The card isn’t as appealing as it used to be due to the printing of Creeping Chill, which allows them to be less all-in on their creature beats.
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The obvious downside though is that it is a NOBO with Goyf/Lingering Souls. Perhaps take those out in this match-up and replace with something less GY reliant? Possibly a terrible idea as I am still new to this archetype. I am not sure I want Leyline of the Void though as this deck doesn't have access to looting effects to pitch it when top-decked mid/late game.
B/G Rock BG | Jund BGR | Mardu Pyromancer BRW | Ponza RG | Burn RW
Give it a try but youre going to find that the clock is so slow it wont be worth it.
Better off with spellbombs, voids and surgical
There are a couple of effects to pitch Leylines or other junk. Neither is looting but Collective Brutality benefits from Escalation. Lili doesn't care if you have a card or not, but if you have more than one and one happens to be a superfluous Leyline, there's a little benefit there.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
Fair enough. After mulling on it a bit and browsing some Abzan lists, a more effective approach than my original idea may be some combination of Surgical/Spellbomb in the board and possibly Kalitas and Anafenza main deck. I've seen a few people mention the latter, and I imagine it has the potential to be impactful in multiple match-ups (Dredge, Hollow One, etc.)
B/G Rock BG | Jund BGR | Mardu Pyromancer BRW | Ponza RG | Burn RW
Yeah, that’s always been a big miss, and now it’s even less reliable of a way to slam the door shut on Dredge thanks to Chill.
Still, if Tendrils is in a decent place across the rest of the meta, then it may be worth considering. My philosophy with this deck is that sideboard cards don’t have to be blowouts, they just have to represent above average efficiency most of the time, so long as they’re wide enough to see a lot of use.
I would echo the warnings of other posters that advised against running RiP. However, if you do want to try Peaceful Abzan, I’d exclude Souls from your 75 entirely, playing straight BG main with just RiP and Stony in the side. It will still be a pretty rough negative synergy with Goyf, who is often incredibly good against graveyard-centric decks, but at least you’d be giving yourself the best chance to succeed that way.
Yep, the fact that it can be just a three-mana sweeper against weenies is a big deal. I might bring the card back into the fold sometime soon and test it further.
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Completely agree on that. RiP disables too many things in our deck..
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Actually I would appreciate it if you found something better to do. Hopefully you just kinda go away.
Infraction issued for flaming. Budget talk has its own subforum. --CavalryWolfPack
-Stay Frosty
No reason to start a mudfight. The choice of words could be more subtile, but what he was trying to say, budget aside, is that Abzan Midrange/Traverse and BG Rock are very very different strategies from what you are trying to do.
I would advice you to have a look at the Abzan Liege or the GW creature toolbox decks, which have more in common with what you are trying to do.
Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW Bushwhacker Zoo -
Advice not really helping...anyways forget it. Thanks...
-Stay Frosty
3 Assassin's Trophy
4 Blooming Marsh
2 Collective Brutality
4 Fatal Push
4 Field of Ruin
2 Forest
3 Hissing Quagmire
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Overgrown Tomb
3 Scavenging Ooze
4 Swamp
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
3 Thoughtseize
4 Tireless Tracker
1 Treetop Village
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Choke
1 Collective Brutality
1 Damnation
2 Damping Sphere
1 Duress
1 Languish
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Nissa, Vital Force
2 Surgical Extraction
I’m working on a Rock deck at the moment from Jund, so I’m having to switch my train of thought a little, but I do have a couple of thoughts on this since it’s fresh on my mind.
***The following is inaccurate, according to Delver, and I would trust him more. I saw a couple of lists on MTGO competitive league running this landbase, but maybe they were just lucky to get away with it.***
One is RUN MORE TREETOP! I’m not yelling at you, I’m just adding emphasis to emphasize my passion for the ape land. It makes me sad that I feel the 24 land Jund build is correct, and that our spellbase is too demanding to run a Treetop in the 24 land build. It’s simply the best manland when the mana diversity isn’t a limiting factor. And in this situation, I think you’re perfectly fine running 3x Treetop and 1x Quagmire.
***I still stand by this 100%***
The second is that, man, if my curve is that low and my manabase is that painless, I’d be running the s*** out of some Bobs and ditch the Tasigurs. Ideally, that is, and in my opinion. I know you said you don’t have them anymore and I think there are those out there that would prefer Goyfs #5 and #6 instead of Bob and would gladly rely on Tracker (and the occasional Tasigur ability) for CA instead of Bob. But if you had a choice, I think the right choice would be to rely on Bob AND Tracker for stupid amounts of CA.
Just my $0.02 on an archetype I’m not that familiar with (though I am familiar with the roster).
BRGJUNDGRB---BRHOLLOW ONERB---BGELVESGB---BRGLIVING ENDGRB---GWBOGLESWG
EDH:
BRGKARRTHUS, TYRANT OF JUNDGRB
4x Dark Confidant
4x Tarmogoyf
3x Scavenging Ooze
3x Tireless Tracker
Instants (8)
4x Fatal Push
4x Assassin's Trophy
Sorceries (9)
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
3x Thoughtseize
2x Collective Brutality
1x Maelstrom Pulse
4x Liliana of the Veil
1x Liliana, the Last Hope
Lands (24)
4x Blooming Marsh
4x Field of Ruin
4x Verdant Catacombs
3x Treetop Village
1x Hissing Quagmire
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2x Overgrown Tomb
3x Swamp
2x Forest
4x Leyline of the Void
3x Fulminator Mage
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Grafdigger's Cage
1x Damping Sphere
1x Damnation
1x Languish
1x Flaying Tendrils
1x Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
I'm really up in the air on that second Brutality in the main. I feel like it could be better suited as something else, but I'm not certain. I'm pretty pleased with the sideboard, but Cage and Sphere are flex slots in my opinion. It feels really streamlined, and really well equipped for the meta (my LGS seems to be mimicking the pro tour right now). With that said, it's a new archetype for me and I could be way off. I would greatly appreciate some input!
Thanks, as always.
BRGJUNDGRB---BRHOLLOW ONERB---BGELVESGB---BRGLIVING ENDGRB---GWBOGLESWG
EDH:
BRGKARRTHUS, TYRANT OF JUNDGRB