I’m pretty sure Abzan Midrange has better results than the Traverse package I’m running, but I like the gameplay of the traverse package and I like drawing action and it feels much more lower to the ground. Just my opinion.
Hi everyone, I have been playing this deck for years, ever since you would just jam 4 rhinos into your deck, although my question is that is anyone still playing abzan? I'm just worried that jund does what this deck wants to do but better now, so what have people been doing to keep this deck relevant?
The deck has evolved but it's still relevant. The key sideboard options that White gives you can shore up a decent number of matchups.
We don't generally jam 4 rhinos anymore, it's certainly an option but most places run 2. I have been running 3 for a while due to an abundance of Burn in my meta but for an open meta I'd support the camp on 2.
Why would you choose abzan over jund? This is an honest question, since I haven't piloted any of those decks, and can't really see why abzan could be better than jund on the current meta. Thanks!
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After that post, I went to modern thinking that the deck just couldn't hold up anymore although I managed to go 3-1. FYI I am running the centralized list.
The first match was against grixis control and I went 0-2. At no point did I think I would be able to out-grind this deck, they just have too much late game with tasigur, JTMS and Kcommand, I tried siding in Gideon AoZ although trying to fight the late game felt bad.
The next 3 matches were burn and two mardo pyro lists and I 2-0'ed each match. In these games, lingering souls really did a lot of work, mainly stabilizing the board until I found removal, so I was still happy that I was running white. Siege rhino though felt like it did very little other than against burn, it always just ate a removal spell after investing 4 mana into it.
So I have also decided that the low to the ground BG splash white deck is probably the way to go. Lingering souls is still an amazing card for BGx and there are two lantern players at my LGS so stony silence is worth playing white for. The reason I want to go lower to the ground is to get under the other midrange and control decks running JTMS and BBE, I don't think there is another option for beating them as now they do just out value us.
I'd be interested in seeing your list. I haven't played Abzan in a while but I was thinking about throwing it back together this weekend with Rhinos.
I think Damping Spehere will definitely find a home in sideboard as a one or two. I agree that Surgicals appears to be the logical card to cut. I could also see cutting both surgicals for one sphere and for another bullet card like Thrunn. the only concern I have is it may mean tron runs 3-4 natures claim as there will always be a good target.
I think Damping Spehere will definitely find a home in sideboard as a one or two. I agree that Surgicals appears to be the logical card to cut. I could also see cutting both surgicals for one sphere and for another bullet card like Thrunn. the only concern I have is it may mean tron runs 3-4 natures claim as there will always be a good target.
I am not worried about Natures Claim. Why? Because other than Damping SPhere, they can't hit anything else with it against our deck. If they board in 3-4 cards for 2 miser cards of ours, odds are in our favour that if we happen to not draw Damping Sphere, they are stranded with useless Claims in hand. And thats also a kind of value you can get by the sheer presence of Damping Sphere.
yeah you are right besides stonies. So likely 3-4 targets. I think it will likely be the combination of cards will be telling in how games play out.
I hope now we get some people back on the abzan forum. The centralised list is still good and Jund has a big target on its back. Havent seen as many good placings for Jund recently
yeah you are right besides stonies. So likely 3-4 targets. I think it will likely be the combination of cards will be telling in how games play out.
I hope now we get some people back on the abzan forum. The centralised list is still good and Jund has a big target on its back. Havent seen as many good placings for Jund recently
It was only a matter of time. I think the only reason jund was doing so well was there sheer numbers. There were a lot of people playing it. Since then, other strategies have come out that are just as good with BBE.
You know, this is a kind of deck I don't particularly like and I don't think I'd ever play (mainly because of Tarmo)... But I wanted to stop by and congratulate the OP for the absolutely beautiful formatting of the guide. This has got to be the tidiest, most visually pleasing primer I've ever had the pleasure of reading.
Thanks very much, apreciate the feedback and am glad you like the primer!
Hi. I’m back to The Rock instead of Jund and I’m curious to what are our best 3 and 4 drops for creatures right now? I’m trying out 2x Trackers and 1x Excavator.
I'm on 4 Bob, 4 Goyf, 2 scooze, 1 excavator and 4 tireless tracker and the deck has been excellent. I top 8d a 1K a few weeks back and think straight GB brings enough to the table to warrant playing.
Decks where the game is liable to be decided before I'm able to untap and start cracking clues are generally the ones where tracker comes out. I'll shave some or all of my trackers against storm depending on how much I can bring in as the card is a vanilla 3/2 for 3 in that matchup and fairly terrible IME
There isn't really any way to "splash" for Eldrazi since you're looking at probably 8 lands (4 temples, 4 lanowar wastes) minimum, then 8 creatures minimum to make that worthwhile in smashers and TKS, then if you're in green you're definitely running ancient stirrings, and suddenly you're talking about a splash that represents at least a 20 card swap and is really a whole different deck.
I believe there is a BG Eldrazi deck in the deck creation section though, so I think people are experimenting with it
About that flying 4 drop, I don't see much relevant reason why Restoration Angel is not just better overall. And would you consider Resto? Not so sure about that.
What makes it unreliable in your opinion? The delirium activation?
Also; I have to agree with a previous user. You make some of the best primers there are.
Yes, delirium is not a guaranteed thing to have, and its very inconsistant if you don't support it enough. And support it comes with a big cost of having to play less impactful cards most of the time.
No offense, But I don't really get this comparison. It's body is the same for the cost, sure, with flash in addition.
But how is Resto better overall? Shalai has two amazing abilities.
Resto doesn't add to the lategame plan like Shalai's township ability and might protect like one dude instead of yourself and all your creatures and planeswalkers...
Resto is often a 2-for-1 with its etb ability, which you can use in response to a removal spell. The hexproof ability of the other 4 drop won't guarantee a 2-for-1 and you have to pretty much tap out in order to cast it. If you cast it, your opponent will most likely just kill everything what they want to kill in response. And I would say that most of the time hexprrof on PWs and yourself doesn't matter really. I don't think Burn is that big of a problem for Abzan. You won't get immediate value by etb triggers, just future protection. And if it just gets killed immediatly you have a big tempo loss imo. Resto having flash is not a big problem when it comes to tempo. This won't matter against all matchups, but against the most common decks right now (Humans, Hollow One) it matters.
The deck has evolved but it's still relevant. The key sideboard options that White gives you can shore up a decent number of matchups.
We don't generally jam 4 rhinos anymore, it's certainly an option but most places run 2. I have been running 3 for a while due to an abundance of Burn in my meta but for an open meta I'd support the camp on 2.
I'd be interested in seeing your list. I haven't played Abzan in a while but I was thinking about throwing it back together this weekend with Rhinos.
I am not worried about Natures Claim. Why? Because other than Damping SPhere, they can't hit anything else with it against our deck. If they board in 3-4 cards for 2 miser cards of ours, odds are in our favour that if we happen to not draw Damping Sphere, they are stranded with useless Claims in hand. And thats also a kind of value you can get by the sheer presence of Damping Sphere.
I hope now we get some people back on the abzan forum. The centralised list is still good and Jund has a big target on its back. Havent seen as many good placings for Jund recently
It was only a matter of time. I think the only reason jund was doing so well was there sheer numbers. There were a lot of people playing it. Since then, other strategies have come out that are just as good with BBE.
Thanks very much, apreciate the feedback and am glad you like the primer!
Modern.
GBW Junk
GBR Jund
UG Infect
Modern.
GBW Junk
GBR Jund
UG Infect
I believe there is a BG Eldrazi deck in the deck creation section though, so I think people are experimenting with it
I think Traverse builds work best with Death Shadow variants. I am really not a fan of an unreliable card (Traverse) in a goodstuff deck.
Yes, delirium is not a guaranteed thing to have, and its very inconsistant if you don't support it enough. And support it comes with a big cost of having to play less impactful cards most of the time.
Resto is often a 2-for-1 with its etb ability, which you can use in response to a removal spell. The hexproof ability of the other 4 drop won't guarantee a 2-for-1 and you have to pretty much tap out in order to cast it. If you cast it, your opponent will most likely just kill everything what they want to kill in response. And I would say that most of the time hexprrof on PWs and yourself doesn't matter really. I don't think Burn is that big of a problem for Abzan. You won't get immediate value by etb triggers, just future protection. And if it just gets killed immediatly you have a big tempo loss imo. Resto having flash is not a big problem when it comes to tempo. This won't matter against all matchups, but against the most common decks right now (Humans, Hollow One) it matters.
2 Anafenza, the Foremost
1 Archangel Avacyn
2 Grim Flayer
4 Noble Hierarch
1 Scavenging Ooze
4 Siege Rhino
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Lingering Souls
2 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Thoughtseize
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Abzan Charm
3 Fatal Push
2 Path to Exile
1 Forest
2 Gavony Township
1 Godless Shrine
3 Marsh Flats
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Plains
1 Shambling Vent
1 Swamp
1 Temple Garden
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath
1 Back to Nature
2 Collective Brutality
2 Fulminator Mage
2 Kitchen Finks
2 Liliana, the Last Hope
3 Stony Silence
2 Surgical Extraction