@NosferatuRed I sent you an extensive message to that but I'll TL;DR it here:
It is at it's heart a GB deck. There's not a ton of difference except My top end is bigger and it's a little slower on average. It still suffers from many of the problems GB normally has except reality smasher is so unbelievably amazing and gets you out of certain and sometimes numerous situations other things wouldn't. I trade out fast discard for a slower discard on a stick for instance. The mana base is worse comparatively, but 3 FoR main certainly help more than in normal GB. I lose out on some manlands though which this version needs more of but just can't fit. So therefore, the deck is much softer to land destruction than GB. This version has better matchups vs some decks (control and tron) but also worse matchups elsewhere (fast aggro and jund). This deck is also slightly less of a dog to the wrong half problem. Rarely are my cards just dead draws late and teh threats are generally huge and hard to answer. That can also be a negative when you draw all the top end and stuck on 3 lands. Assassin's trophy has both simultaneously made this deck much better and worse depending on the meta.
I am unable to attend most big events, although I have made a couple and have been putting up good results. Is this better than GB? Probably not, but it attacks on a unique angle that a lot of decks have trouble with. I think it's better personally but that means nothing. I've been off straight GB for a while so I don't have the experience to say. I think it's a meta dependent list too. If yours has a lot of fast aggro and spirits or heavy Land destruction decks I would probably play GB over this. Otherwise I would choose this 100% of the time.
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Went 3-1 at FNM with rockdrazi and came in 9th No deck list changes. I'll put it in spoiler tag so those who aren't interested can skip. Played vs Rich Shay so that's always exciting. Also played a couple non tier decks although one was actually pretty scary.
r1 counters company
g1 stuck on 2 lands and die. g2 had a good start but he got out 2 trackers and a knight of the reliquary and I was on damnation or bust. didn't happen. I play against this player a lot and last week gave him some tips as my meta has a LOT of GBx. That definitely came back to bite me haha.
0-1
g2 storm
This was the Rich Shay Match. We go to 3 games and have a ver nerve wracking g3 with me at 3 life through a bunch of gobos. I had to dodge bolt for a few turns and managed to do so. I made some poor decisions and should have wiped the gobos immediately and that put me in a really bad spot. now I know.
1-1
g3 seismic assault/loam
THis was actually a very cool deck that's pretty scary. The loam engine with assault is gross. we went to 3 games but I managed to get there g3 with huge beats. Goyf gets huge in this match and the explosiveness of smasher is hard to deal with. Scooze was MVP though. I underestimated countryside crusher and he WRECKED me g2.
2-1
g4 mono black devotion
g1 I jusr roll over him pretty easily. g2 he plays an early obliterator and I have no way to answer it. g3 he bring in an absurd amount of SB cards and they were pretty bad. He gets stuck on 3 mana and I was able to kill him pretty easy as 1 card a turn from his side with no way to pump his dread shades or play obliterators worked out for me.
3-1
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Akalah, thanks for posting the breakdown for us. Always nice to read how others are doing and the touts on the wins and losses.
I went 2-2 at FNM, with the Arclight deck as a loss, and that was the deck that went undefeated. I have done well against that deck online and went 1-2 irl. Beginning on the draw seems to be a bigger negative than against many other decks. Also my opponant was a very skilled player... better than me. I have faith in the BG build and believe that with tight play I can beat any deck. A dash of luck never hurts either.
On to the build... I used 3 Bobs, but think I will play with 4 going in ahead. Kalitas is a favorite of mine, but likely will put two in side with none in main. Keeping 3 trackers in main and use 4 liliana of the veils... on the play she is just money. I miss abrupt decay and will have to find room for one or two in the main. I will tighten things up and hope to report a better record next week.
Since the forum is quiet I decided to ramble on as Led Zeppelin would say...
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He raged at the world, at his family, at his life. But mostly he just raged.
Modern: BG Rock, Grixis Control, UW Control
Commander: Prossh, Skyraider of Kher
"Win or lose, naught to choose - all men are equal when their memory fades. No one knows, friends or foes, if Valhalla lies beyond the grave." - Motörhead “Deaf Forever”
Akalah, thanks for posting the breakdown for us. Always nice to read how others are doing and the touts on the wins and losses.
I went 2-2 at FNM, with the Arclight deck as a loss, and that was the deck that went undefeated. I have done well against that deck online and went 1-2 irl. Beginning on the draw seems to be a bigger negative than against many other decks. Also my opponant was a very skilled player... better than me. I have faith in the BG build and believe that with tight play I can beat any deck. A dash of luck never hurts either.
On to the build... I used 3 Bobs, but think I will play with 4 going in ahead. Kalitas is a favorite of mine, but likely will put two in side with none in main. Keeping 3 trackers in main and use 4 liliana of the veils... on the play she is just money. I miss abrupt decay and will have to find room for one or two in the main. I will tighten things up and hope to report a better record next week.
Since the forum is quiet I decided to ramble on as Led Zeppelin would say...
Zeppelin <3
I’ve been doing well against the Phoenix decks, too—I think we’re solidly positioned against them—but their consistency means that they can punish us if we stumble. Similar to Burn in many ways, including play/draw, as you identified.
Including the 4th Bob is something that’s crossed my mind as well, but I’d toyed with moving Tracker #3 to the side in his place. It’s so tough to say, but 3/3 has served me so well since I moved off the Tasigur build that for now I suppose it’s a matter of not fixing what ain’t broke. Let us know how 4x Bobby works out for you!
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Double green on turn 2 is more demanding than a turn 3 Liliana in terms of mana sources. You would need 20 green sources to fulfill it. If we take into account that most lists play 16-17 green sources this seems very unreliable. You would need to cut FoR entirely for that probably.
Double green on turn 2 is more demanding than a turn 3 Liliana in terms of mana sources. You would need 20 green sources to fulfill it. If we take into account that most lists play 16-17 green sources this seems very unreliable. You would need to cut FoR entirely for that probably.
You would go so far as to say very unreliable? Not just a little unreliable?
Yes, one would probably need to eschew colorless lands to reliably hit it when it's needed. It's rather a shame; it's a kick in the groin for a couple of match-ups that ought to be kicked in the groin.
Yes very unreliable, the probability of having turn 2 double green with 16 green sources only is 77.6 % and for 20 sources its 91.8 %. Thats a difference of almost 15 %. SO its basically having it 7 out of 10 times vs 9 out of 10 times when you bring it in. I mean its possible but I think its a bit risky.
To cast a GG card reliably on turn 2, you need 20 sources of green, on turn 3 it's 18 sources and on turn 4 it's 16. Playing that card is risky, and you are generally better served by Nihil Spellbomb, Surgical Extraction, or Extirpate.
To cast a GG card reliably on turn 2, you need 20 sources of green, on turn 3 it's 18 sources and on turn 4 it's 16. Playing that card is risky, and you are generally better served by Nihil Spellbomb, Surgical Extraction, or Extirpate.
There's no real misunderstanding. I was momentarily seduced by the possibility of a one-side Rest in Peace but it isn't reliable with the currently fashionable Rock mana-bases.
Forgot an update last week but I went a sad 2-3 losing to dredge, merfolk and storm. I think I made some suboptimal choices vs the combo decks and certainly misplayed vs merfolk which punished me huge. Dredge is really scary with creeping chill. That card is so dumb. This FNM went much better and had a large 42 player turn out, I blame it on me forgetting my playmat last friday haha.
r1 mono W eldrazi taxes
These games weren't close at all. We have a little back and forth but my guys outclass his by a mile even though he has eldrazi. I just have so much more removal that answers everything.
1-0 (2-0)
r2 grixis DS
g1 he makes a strange block when he throws his 5/5 DS into my smasher at 8 life. I was fine with that obviously. I'm at 14. he then plays 2 gurmags. I play tracker draw some cards, find the removal I need and swing in for lethal. G2 he floods a bit holding up totally irrelevant counterspells like disdainful stroke and stubby D and I roll over him with goyfs and scooze.
2-0 (4-0)
r3 burn
g1 I get run over by cheap guys and forget to t1 fatal push thinking I could just do it t2 and still be fine. Not doing so put me far behind and eventually even farther when he boros charms to save his eidolon and then I'm in a really bad spot with a hand FULL of 1-3 drops. g2 was similar I eventually get locked under eidolon at 2 life and a smasher on the table but I didn't see kalitas, or obstinate or another smasher and obviously he found a spell after a couple turns.
2-1 (4-2)
r4 GB
g1 I just have the right removal and strip him of all his lilianas. g2 we had a long wonderful game of magic. It was probably the best game i've played in a long while. So much back and forth and at one point we had dueling scoozes, then stare downs, then advantages swapped back and forth, but tracker won me this game hands down with smashers. Tracker drew me like 10 cards literally. I eventually overwhelm him and he can't answer smasher with a couple goyfs. Such a good game.
3-1 (6-2)
r5 grixis as foretold
g1 he floods a lot after keeping a 5 land hand. g2 I just have a ton of answers and all he's doing is thoughtseizing me over and over to very little effect honestly. He gets to a point he's at like 12 life and just a couple of big guys after some discard and he's got nothing to stop them. I thought he was just on grixis control I never saw the as foretolds.
4-1 (8-2)
top 8: GB infect
I was really excited to play this match. g1 I get super lucky ripping assassin's trophy into fatal push back to back to stop his 2 inkmoth nexi. The trophy was huge as he went to become immense it for lethal. the next one was as I was at 6 poison but having the answer let my goyf and TKS easily cruise in for the win. g2 I just have more removal and liliana last hope killed or found me the guys I needed. I had a good hand and things lined up well. The match felt easy but I know it's not, if i miss on removal i know I can just immediately lose. Glad I didn't I guess
5-1 (10-2)
summary:
I never played a g3 all night which was very strange but I'm not going to complain. The deck felt great as always and certainly performed. I'm still debating some SB changes as I'm hoping to attend SCG Worcester next Saturday but I'm not sure I will be able to. I'm think I'm going to experience less midrange than in my meta. Basically more amulet/titan/spirits. I'm not sure there's much I can do to stop those matches honestly. I don't have a lot of experience vs those 3 decks but they all feel like really bad matchups when I have played them. Going to have to figure something out. GB has been doing well in my meta overall in a few different varieties of straight GB (normal, rockdrazi and infect) this week had those 3 decks in top 8. last week had 2 straight versions in top 8. There's a guy who top 8's with it almost every week. Almost everyone has been converted off jund for one reason or another.
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@yriel you are right, rocks manabase is indeed very tight. And to state, I absolutely think the manabase from the challange list is inconsistant and I would not play that manabase. I think with 24 lands you can mostly only play 3 FoRs. But people like their FoR and also their treetops, so they mostly play inconsistant manabases.
Since in rock we also play Lilianas, we also need 18 black sources on turn 3. The problem with FoR is, that it doesn't provide black for turn 3. So you can't count it as black source. My personal manabase looks like the following for example:
4 Blooming Marsh
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Overgrown Tomb
4 Swamp
3 Hissing Quagmire
1 Marsh Flats
1 Treetop Village
2 Forest
3 Field of Ruin
at first glance the manabase seems more liberal as we play a 2 colour deck compared to Jund, but overall it is very tight as Field of Ruin is played.
Hi guys! I recently switched from Jund to Rock. Really loving how streamlined and having the land destruction angle. This is my list right now and was looking for some feedback, especially on the sideboard. Was also considering adding an Abrupt Decay to main in place of either a bomb or Tracker. Loving both of these cards in this shell though. Any thoughts or feedback would be greatly appreciated! Thanks guys!
Hello guys,
as some other players, i stop Jund to go on The Rock.
After some days i am 7-4 on side event GP and 10-4 on competitive MTGO so i will continue to test seriously, my list is pretty classic :
I did some changes like 3rd fulminator mage, no damping sphere or one more, 3rd tracker MD instad of kalitas and continue to try some small change just to have some feedback. And i play ravenous trap sometimes instead of surgical extraction on MTGO because price aha or juste 1 nihil spellbomb and other stuff.
But now my huge test is side board plan in mirror and UX Control (with no blood moon) :
-i choose to draw first against any kind of BGX, UW, Jeskai, UR Control if no blood moon, UBR Control.
-in BGX mirror, my sideboard is weak, i don't have any finks or more planeswalkers. So my lategame is worst than my opponent lategame so should i try to grind if i know my top deck are weaker ? I don't have answer to that but i give a try to a plan :
My opponent have more value spells so i draw first to try to compensate that, by the way the hand with a lot of removals are better on the draw because you will be sure the game will be long.
I keep 4 discards to catch the lilianas because liliana is a real problem when you don't start, it's a huge punishment if i try to play a creature turn 2.
So my plan is : side board out 2 thoughtseize and 2 collective brutality, board in damnation, EE, tireless tracker and M.pulse.
I don't say it's a good plan, i am not sure at all, i just give a try and want to share. I know perfectly the classic mirror plan (board out discard, start, draw better than your opponent).
You also dont get punished when you play a creature on turn 2 when you are on the play by liliana. Especially having LoTV on the play is so strong in the mirror that I think that alone justifies choosing to play.
I think fulminator mage is just ok, not good, rock have already field of ruin to manage manlands, don't need to play a 2/2 to face goyf and confidants.
I know all of that, it's why i try by keeping discard to remove the t3 lilianas.
Well about PVDDR's article, it's obviously false to say "never draw first except if you play very spicy thing" because a lot of others good pros choose to draw in some scenarios except if you think PVDDR is far better than other pros but when i see Watanabe draws first in legacy grixis mirror and Reid Duke says "i am not sure on that, i believe you". I think PV is obviously a really great player but like some others pros he doesn't talk with mesure or retain.
By the way, i don't know if you see but a big MTGO grinder with grixis death shadow says "choose to draw first with GDS against Rock, it's so strong". Interesting thing maybe.
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It is at it's heart a GB deck. There's not a ton of difference except My top end is bigger and it's a little slower on average. It still suffers from many of the problems GB normally has except reality smasher is so unbelievably amazing and gets you out of certain and sometimes numerous situations other things wouldn't. I trade out fast discard for a slower discard on a stick for instance. The mana base is worse comparatively, but 3 FoR main certainly help more than in normal GB. I lose out on some manlands though which this version needs more of but just can't fit. So therefore, the deck is much softer to land destruction than GB. This version has better matchups vs some decks (control and tron) but also worse matchups elsewhere (fast aggro and jund). This deck is also slightly less of a dog to the wrong half problem. Rarely are my cards just dead draws late and teh threats are generally huge and hard to answer. That can also be a negative when you draw all the top end and stuck on 3 lands. Assassin's trophy has both simultaneously made this deck much better and worse depending on the meta.
I am unable to attend most big events, although I have made a couple and have been putting up good results. Is this better than GB? Probably not, but it attacks on a unique angle that a lot of decks have trouble with. I think it's better personally but that means nothing. I've been off straight GB for a while so I don't have the experience to say. I think it's a meta dependent list too. If yours has a lot of fast aggro and spirits or heavy Land destruction decks I would probably play GB over this. Otherwise I would choose this 100% of the time.
Modern: BG eldrazi midrange
BWG Abzan value evolution
BUG BUG Midrange
Tiny Leaders: BW Athreos Zombies
Commander: BG Gitrog Monster
r1 counters company
g1 stuck on 2 lands and die. g2 had a good start but he got out 2 trackers and a knight of the reliquary and I was on damnation or bust. didn't happen. I play against this player a lot and last week gave him some tips as my meta has a LOT of GBx. That definitely came back to bite me haha.
0-1
g2 storm
This was the Rich Shay Match. We go to 3 games and have a ver nerve wracking g3 with me at 3 life through a bunch of gobos. I had to dodge bolt for a few turns and managed to do so. I made some poor decisions and should have wiped the gobos immediately and that put me in a really bad spot. now I know.
1-1
g3 seismic assault/loam
THis was actually a very cool deck that's pretty scary. The loam engine with assault is gross. we went to 3 games but I managed to get there g3 with huge beats. Goyf gets huge in this match and the explosiveness of smasher is hard to deal with. Scooze was MVP though. I underestimated countryside crusher and he WRECKED me g2.
2-1
g4 mono black devotion
g1 I jusr roll over him pretty easily. g2 he plays an early obliterator and I have no way to answer it. g3 he bring in an absurd amount of SB cards and they were pretty bad. He gets stuck on 3 mana and I was able to kill him pretty easy as 1 card a turn from his side with no way to pump his dread shades or play obliterators worked out for me.
3-1
Modern: BG eldrazi midrange
BWG Abzan value evolution
BUG BUG Midrange
Tiny Leaders: BW Athreos Zombies
Commander: BG Gitrog Monster
I went 2-2 at FNM, with the Arclight deck as a loss, and that was the deck that went undefeated. I have done well against that deck online and went 1-2 irl. Beginning on the draw seems to be a bigger negative than against many other decks. Also my opponant was a very skilled player... better than me. I have faith in the BG build and believe that with tight play I can beat any deck. A dash of luck never hurts either.
On to the build... I used 3 Bobs, but think I will play with 4 going in ahead. Kalitas is a favorite of mine, but likely will put two in side with none in main. Keeping 3 trackers in main and use 4 liliana of the veils... on the play she is just money. I miss abrupt decay and will have to find room for one or two in the main. I will tighten things up and hope to report a better record next week.
Since the forum is quiet I decided to ramble on as Led Zeppelin would say...
Modern: BG Rock, Grixis Control, UW Control
Commander: Prossh, Skyraider of Kher
"Win or lose, naught to choose - all men are equal when their memory fades. No one knows, friends or foes, if Valhalla lies beyond the grave." - Motörhead “Deaf Forever”
Zeppelin <3
I’ve been doing well against the Phoenix decks, too—I think we’re solidly positioned against them—but their consistency means that they can punish us if we stumble. Similar to Burn in many ways, including play/draw, as you identified.
Including the 4th Bob is something that’s crossed my mind as well, but I’d toyed with moving Tracker #3 to the side in his place. It’s so tough to say, but 3/3 has served me so well since I moved off the Tasigur build that for now I suppose it’s a matter of not fixing what ain’t broke. Let us know how 4x Bobby works out for you!
YouTube Channel, with deck techs, gameplay, analysis, spoiler reviews, and more!
It's Rock-able and it's not too great a stretch to get down turn-two - when one needs it.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
You would go so far as to say very unreliable? Not just a little unreliable?
I don't play Field of Ruin, I play Ghost Quarter. I know, that makes it even worse.
Yes, one would probably need to eschew colorless lands to reliably hit it when it's needed. It's rather a shame; it's a kick in the groin for a couple of match-ups that ought to be kicked in the groin.
Wheel will probably remain in my GW jank.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
To cast a GG card reliably on turn 2, you need 20 sources of green, on turn 3 it's 18 sources and on turn 4 it's 16. Playing that card is risky, and you are generally better served by Nihil Spellbomb, Surgical Extraction, or Extirpate.
WBC Eldrazi & Taxes CBW
UR Keep on Cantripin' (UR Phoenix) RU
WU Surprise! It's not UW Control! (UW Midrange) UW
BG The Rock, Straight BG
U Mono-Blue Fish U
RBW Mardu Pyromancer BWR
RG Rabble! Rabble! (GR Blood Moon Aggro) GR
Legacy
W Death & Taxes W
There's no real misunderstanding. I was momentarily seduced by the possibility of a one-side Rest in Peace but it isn't reliable with the currently fashionable Rock mana-bases.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
3 scavenging ooze
4 tarmogoyf
3 tireless tracker
4 thought-knot seer
3 reality smasher
spells
2 inquisition of kozilek
2 thoughtseize
4 fatal push
4 oath of nissa
3 assassin's trophy
1 maelstrom pulse
2 liliana of the veil
1 liliana, the last hope
2 llanowar wastes
1 Blooming marsh
4 verdant catacombs
1 overgrown tomb
3 swamp
2 forest
1 twilight mire
2 treetop village
1 hissing quagmire
4 eldrazi temple
3 field of ruin
3 surgical extraction
1 flaying tendrils
1 damnation
3 collective brutality
1 maelstrom pulse
1 Obstinate baloth
1 Kalitas, traitor of ghet
1 reclamation sage
1 fulminator mage
1 golgari charm
1 damping sphere
r1 mono W eldrazi taxes
These games weren't close at all. We have a little back and forth but my guys outclass his by a mile even though he has eldrazi. I just have so much more removal that answers everything.
1-0 (2-0)
r2 grixis DS
g1 he makes a strange block when he throws his 5/5 DS into my smasher at 8 life. I was fine with that obviously. I'm at 14. he then plays 2 gurmags. I play tracker draw some cards, find the removal I need and swing in for lethal. G2 he floods a bit holding up totally irrelevant counterspells like disdainful stroke and stubby D and I roll over him with goyfs and scooze.
2-0 (4-0)
r3 burn
g1 I get run over by cheap guys and forget to t1 fatal push thinking I could just do it t2 and still be fine. Not doing so put me far behind and eventually even farther when he boros charms to save his eidolon and then I'm in a really bad spot with a hand FULL of 1-3 drops. g2 was similar I eventually get locked under eidolon at 2 life and a smasher on the table but I didn't see kalitas, or obstinate or another smasher and obviously he found a spell after a couple turns.
2-1 (4-2)
r4 GB
g1 I just have the right removal and strip him of all his lilianas. g2 we had a long wonderful game of magic. It was probably the best game i've played in a long while. So much back and forth and at one point we had dueling scoozes, then stare downs, then advantages swapped back and forth, but tracker won me this game hands down with smashers. Tracker drew me like 10 cards literally. I eventually overwhelm him and he can't answer smasher with a couple goyfs. Such a good game.
3-1 (6-2)
r5 grixis as foretold
g1 he floods a lot after keeping a 5 land hand. g2 I just have a ton of answers and all he's doing is thoughtseizing me over and over to very little effect honestly. He gets to a point he's at like 12 life and just a couple of big guys after some discard and he's got nothing to stop them. I thought he was just on grixis control I never saw the as foretolds.
4-1 (8-2)
top 8: GB infect
I was really excited to play this match. g1 I get super lucky ripping assassin's trophy into fatal push back to back to stop his 2 inkmoth nexi. The trophy was huge as he went to become immense it for lethal. the next one was as I was at 6 poison but having the answer let my goyf and TKS easily cruise in for the win. g2 I just have more removal and liliana last hope killed or found me the guys I needed. I had a good hand and things lined up well. The match felt easy but I know it's not, if i miss on removal i know I can just immediately lose. Glad I didn't I guess
5-1 (10-2)
summary:
I never played a g3 all night which was very strange but I'm not going to complain. The deck felt great as always and certainly performed. I'm still debating some SB changes as I'm hoping to attend SCG Worcester next Saturday but I'm not sure I will be able to. I'm think I'm going to experience less midrange than in my meta. Basically more amulet/titan/spirits. I'm not sure there's much I can do to stop those matches honestly. I don't have a lot of experience vs those 3 decks but they all feel like really bad matchups when I have played them. Going to have to figure something out. GB has been doing well in my meta overall in a few different varieties of straight GB (normal, rockdrazi and infect) this week had those 3 decks in top 8. last week had 2 straight versions in top 8. There's a guy who top 8's with it almost every week. Almost everyone has been converted off jund for one reason or another.
Modern: BG eldrazi midrange
BWG Abzan value evolution
BUG BUG Midrange
Tiny Leaders: BW Athreos Zombies
Commander: BG Gitrog Monster
Since in rock we also play Lilianas, we also need 18 black sources on turn 3. The problem with FoR is, that it doesn't provide black for turn 3. So you can't count it as black source. My personal manabase looks like the following for example:
4 Blooming Marsh
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Overgrown Tomb
4 Swamp
3 Hissing Quagmire
1 Marsh Flats
1 Treetop Village
2 Forest
3 Field of Ruin
at first glance the manabase seems more liberal as we play a 2 colour deck compared to Jund, but overall it is very tight as Field of Ruin is played.
4x Blooming Marsh
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Field of Ruin
4x Swamp
2x Forest
2x Overgrown Tomb
2x Treetop Village
2x Hissing Quagmire
Creatures
4x Dark Confidant
4x Tarmogoyf
3x Scavenging Ooze
3x Tireless Tracker
1x Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
4x Liliana of the Veil
1x Liliana, The Last Hope
Sorcery
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
2x Thoughtseize
2x Collective Brutality
Instant
4x Assassin's Trophy
4x Fatal Push
3x Surgical Extraction
2x Fulminstor Mage
2x Damping Sphere
2x Grafdigger's Cage
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Collective Brutality
1x Nissa, Vital Force
1x Damnation
1x Kitchen Finks
Hi guys! I recently switched from Jund to Rock. Really loving how streamlined and having the land destruction angle. This is my list right now and was looking for some feedback, especially on the sideboard. Was also considering adding an Abrupt Decay to main in place of either a bomb or Tracker. Loving both of these cards in this shell though. Any thoughts or feedback would be greatly appreciated! Thanks guys!
4x Blooming Marsh
3x Field of Ruin
2x Forest
2x Hissing Quagmire
2x Overgrown Tomb
5x Swamp
2x Treetop Village
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Assassin's Trophy
2x Collective Brutality
4x Fatal Push
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
2x Thoughtseize
3x Scavenging Ooze
4x Tarmogoyf
4x Tireless Tracker
3x Liliana of the Veil
1x Liliana, the Last Hope
2x Vraska, Golgari Queen
1x Damnation
1x Duress
1x Engineered Explosives
3x Fulminator Mage
4x Leyline of the Void
1x Maelstrom Pulse
2x Nissa, Vital Force
2x Surgical Extraction
... sacking lands and clues to Vraska, Golgari Queen is a gravy train.
as some other players, i stop Jund to go on The Rock.
After some days i am 7-4 on side event GP and 10-4 on competitive MTGO so i will continue to test seriously, my list is pretty classic :
4 Blooming Marsh
4 Field of Ruin
2 Forest
3 Hissing Quagmire
1 Overgrown Tomb
3 Swamp
1 Treetop Village
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Assassin's Trophy
2 Collective Brutality
4 Fatal Push
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
3 Scavenging Ooze
2 Tarmogoyf
4 Tireless Tracker
4 Dark Confidant
3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Damnation
1 Duress
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Fulminator Mage
3 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Tireless Tracker
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Disfigure
1 Languish
1 Damping Sphere
I did some changes like 3rd fulminator mage, no damping sphere or one more, 3rd tracker MD instad of kalitas and continue to try some small change just to have some feedback. And i play ravenous trap sometimes instead of surgical extraction on MTGO because price aha or juste 1 nihil spellbomb and other stuff.
But now my huge test is side board plan in mirror and UX Control (with no blood moon) :
-i choose to draw first against any kind of BGX, UW, Jeskai, UR Control if no blood moon, UBR Control.
-in BGX mirror, my sideboard is weak, i don't have any finks or more planeswalkers. So my lategame is worst than my opponent lategame so should i try to grind if i know my top deck are weaker ? I don't have answer to that but i give a try to a plan :
My opponent have more value spells so i draw first to try to compensate that, by the way the hand with a lot of removals are better on the draw because you will be sure the game will be long.
I keep 4 discards to catch the lilianas because liliana is a real problem when you don't start, it's a huge punishment if i try to play a creature turn 2.
So my plan is : side board out 2 thoughtseize and 2 collective brutality, board in damnation, EE, tireless tracker and M.pulse.
I don't say it's a good plan, i am not sure at all, i just give a try and want to share. I know perfectly the classic mirror plan (board out discard, start, draw better than your opponent).
"Penguin is Evil ?"
I mostly would follow this article from PVDDR concerning that: https://www.channelfireball.com/articles/tiny-edges-dont-choose-to-draw/
You also dont get punished when you play a creature on turn 2 when you are on the play by liliana. Especially having LoTV on the play is so strong in the mirror that I think that alone justifies choosing to play.
I know all of that, it's why i try by keeping discard to remove the t3 lilianas.
Well about PVDDR's article, it's obviously false to say "never draw first except if you play very spicy thing" because a lot of others good pros choose to draw in some scenarios except if you think PVDDR is far better than other pros but when i see Watanabe draws first in legacy grixis mirror and Reid Duke says "i am not sure on that, i believe you". I think PV is obviously a really great player but like some others pros he doesn't talk with mesure or retain.
By the way, i don't know if you see but a big MTGO grinder with grixis death shadow says "choose to draw first with GDS against Rock, it's so strong". Interesting thing maybe.
"Penguin is Evil ?"