That is a good point, I was thinking about rug command.
If you were to play bant, you could play other creatures instead (knight, spell queller, voice of resurgence, etc).
I think you'll feel the lack of finishing power a lot, but its possibly very manageable.
I thought 20-21 was low, but with vials and serum visions, as well as cantrips like remand or electrolyze, its manageable. It does seem crazy, but give it a test first.
In bant, you'll likely want more like 21-22 though.
I'll brew up a list and post it either tomorrow or the day after and then I would appreciate it if you could give me your 10 cents. would be lovely.
BTW. I've seen that a lot of ppl run 20 lands. is that on the sketchy side or? I would normally play 22-23 lands
Cody is right again here. 20-21 lands is correct with RUG builds (I personally run 1x Traverse the Ulvenwald instead of land number 21. has been fine so far). Bant probably wants 21-22 lands.
Lacking Bolt and Electrolyze Bant has a harder time killing creatures efficiently and closing out the game (no Bolt/Snap/Bolt hurts a lot).
I haven't found an optimal Bant list yet (but I also haven't tried in a while) but a more creature centric, value build seems to be the best approach to me. Kitchen Finks, Restoration Angel, maybe Spell Queller. And if you wanna run Familiar's Ruse maybe even give Thraben Inspector a chance because nothing beats playing a Vial turn 1 and hardcountering their stuff for value turn 2 haha.
that Thraben Inspector is a nice one don't know if it's good but I'll take it into consideration. and I'll write a brew soon for you guys to comment on
Awesome to hear and thanks for the link!
Seems like Remand was MVP for him. 21 lands (1x Lumbering Falls) and 3x Spell Snare. Overall pretty standard list without mayn gimmicks.
is it me or did this deck just gain a ton of stock in the modern metagame? it seemed like everyone had forgotten it existed and suddenly wham! it's back!
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What exactly do you mean? Do you think the metagame is in a good position for EC or do you actually see an uptick in its metashare?
A little late (had a pretty busy week) but I got another report from my FNM for you.
Went 4-0 again!
Match 1: Burn 2-0
G1: He opens with Guide into Swiftspear, Bolt. Swiftspear gets Bolted, Goyf walls for a turn but then trades with Swiftspear+Searing Blaze. My opponent gets me down to 4 but I can stabilize with Snap+Familiar's Ruse and Kitchen Finks seals the deal.
G2: He opens with Guide again but is stuck on one land for a few turns. Doesn't prevent him from applying more pressure in another Guide, Lava Spike, Bolt. He gets me down to 7 where I stabilize with Spell Snare, Snap and Ruse again.
Match 2: Eldrazi Tron 2-0
I don't know much about the deck, think I got a little lucky but the MU seems better than Bant Eldrazi or Tron.
G1: I open with Vial, Remand his turn 2 TKS, Clique him the next turn, snatch the TKS and leave him with Ulamog, Endbringer and some lands. Vial in Goyf EoT, Cryptic the Endbringer next turn and tempo him out.
G2: This was a bit weird. I think he somehow put me on RUG Delver, so he keeps a very sketchy hand with 2x Wastes, 1x Tron land, Chalice and some big guys but no acceleration. Chalice doesn't really bother me and I just beat him down with two Goyfs and some Bolts.
Match 3: Esper Transcendent (Esper Tapout Control) 2-1
Super grindy games. G1 I manage to win with the E-Wit/Ruse lock, G2: he manages to get Sorin into play (after I countered Narset and had no more mana open) and continues to drown me in Lingering Souls tokens. G3: I draw and stick my Staticaster to deal with the tokens and once I resolved Keranos (searching for him with Traverse feels gooood) he never really came back.
Match 4: Affinity 2-1
G1: He has a slow start and Spell Snare, Bolt and two Snaps keep him under control while Goyf starts beating down.
G2: I mull to five, keep a good hand if I draw another land (fetch, visions, Bolt, Snap, Ancient Grudge). dont find another land for 3 turns. He steamrolls me.
G3: Goes pretty much like game one, Snare his Plating, Bolt the Overseer, Snap Snare Ravager. SV finds me Ancient Grudge and it's GG.
Really nice performance overall. I know I say this all the time, but the deck is solid! And super fun to play!
I mean in terms of meta hostility and visibility. I can't talk about meta share because I don't know the numbers.
I've had the deck built in a deckbox for the best part of 4 years but apart from a period of heavy play and testing a while back, I've not really found the metagame to be that favourable. In addition I've regularly played the deck (or talked about it at least) at FNMs and most people haven't heard of it. Add to this the fact that it didn't get any significant wins over a long period of time.
But that seems to be changing. I've seen a bunch of fairly high profile wins and videos shared recently, indicating that the deck seems to be having something of a renaissance. I'm totally excited for this, because it's my favourite deck of all time. Any opportunity to pick it up alongside other testers and actually have some decent testing conversation is an opportunity I won't miss.
I tested last night. Beat grixis control and esper control. Both good players. Esper list wasnt 100% but nearly optimal. Beat both. Many games ended in a flurry of bolts for the win, and I was aggressively eot bolting opponent's face quite a bit to just keep the pressure on.
I would normally run 2x scooze main, but I felt like having a more powerful 3-drop is beneficial in games where you take vial to 3 and want something chunky. never properly tested with knockleblade before but last night he impressed greatly. flashing him in with mana open feels great. chunked an opponent down from 15 in 2 turns flat last night, with counter-backup and a bolt to finish them off.
I'm back on board peeps. Let's get the train rolling.
Nice to have you on board again!
Do you happen to have some links for the high profile wins and videos you talk about? I'm checking MtGTop8 and youtube every now and then, but besides the Face to Face Games Toronto win I haven't seen the deck appearing anywhere this year yet. Would just love to see some more decklists.
Nice to have you on board again!
Do you happen to have some links for the high profile wins and videos you talk about? I'm checking MtGTop8 and youtube every now and then, but besides the Face to Face Games Toronto win I haven't seen the deck appearing anywhere this year yet. Would just love to see some more decklists.
I can't find the videos I was referring to - they appeared in my recommended feed on youtube, and also cropped up in discussions with people about the deck. I know that one particular vid was from late last year and wasn't "current", but recent. either way, i'm happy to see people brewing and on the deck.
I'll be taking it to FNM this week, as well as Thursday-night testing. (i've been on mono-U turns for ages, am comfortable with that deck, and i'm diversifying to prepare myself for a different metagame in the summer for GP season in the UK)
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@purklefluff: Sad to hear that you can't find the videos, but nice that you want to bring the deck to your FNM. Wish you best of luck.
@VidarThor: Red is the only one that has seen some known success over the last year. BUG is pretty much unexplored and has a lot of potencial now with Fatal Push. Bant is probably the weakest colour combo right now but also not very explored.
I took the deck to FNM on Friday and went 4-0 again woop woop!
I did a small change in the list and replaced 1x Ruse with the 4th Remand and 1x Scooze with the 4th Snappy.
Match 1: RG Breach Titan 2-1 (favorable MU)
G1: On the draw I mull to 5 and keep Vial, SV, Clique, 2 lands. He ramps with 2x Search for Tomorrow, while SV reveals me E-Wit and Familiar’s Ruse, which sets me up for the lock. Vial on 2 I play Clique at end of his draw step because I got no active counters in hand. The only way he wins is if he has a land and 2x Titan/Pact in his 4 card hand. He has 2x Titans and a land…
G2: Keep a onelander with SV, Traverse, Goyf, Cryptic, Snap, Remand, land. Turn 1 Traverse to make sure I have another land (and grow Goyf past Bolt). Turn 2 Goyf and then ride him home on the back of Remand, Snap, Cryptic bounce Snap and Bolt.
G3: Mull to 6, keep 2 lands, Vial, Clique, Snap, 2x Remand. He has a slow start so Clique comes in timely enough to snag away his Through the Breach, attacks a few turns then gets bolted. I follow up with a vialed in Goyf while my hand is full of 2x Snap and 2x Remand.
Match 2: Naya Burn 2-0 (slightly favorable MU)
G1: Keep 7 of 3 lands, Bolt, Spell Snare, Goyf. Cryptic on the play. Bolt his Goblin Guide, play Goyf to wall other creatures. He plays Swifty and Lava Spike. Next turn I counter his Searing Blaze and continue to stabilize with Cryptic into Snap while still on comfortable 13 life.
G2: Mull to 5, keep Vial, Bolt, Finks, 2x lands. He doesn’t have a turn one creature so I can play my Vial, Bolt his turn 2 Eidolon. He follows up with 2x Bolt and 2x Boros Charm, gets me down to 4 before I can vial in Kitchen Finks to block his top decked Goblin Guide. Up to 8 again and I topdeck…Familiar’s Ruse! Counter his next Lava Spike, return Finks to hand and vial it in again. Up on 10 life again I win the game on the back of a Cryptic, Snap Ruse and Bolt/Snap/Bolt.
Match 3: Gr Tron 2-1 (Slightly unfavorable MU)
G1: mull to 5 keep SV, Goyf, Bolt, 2x land on the draw. He has turn 3 Karn…G2
G2: Snap keep 7 of 3 lands, Vial, Remand, Goyf, Stone Rain. Remand his turn 2 Sylvan Scrying, start applying pressure with vialed in Goyf, draw Snap and go turn 3 Stone Rain, Turn 4 Vial in Snap, Stone Rain again. He doesn’t come back from that.
G3: Mull to 6, keep Clique, Goyf, Remand, Cryptic 3x lands. He starts with turn 1 Groves, I know he won’t have turn 3 Tron, so I drop my Goyf turn 2, Remand his turn 4 Karn and play Clique at end of his turn 5 draw step, get to see some lands, 2x eggs, Karn and Ulamog. Need to take the Ulamog. He casts karn, exiles Goyf but I can kill the Karn with Clique next turn. Snapcaster remands his next Karn and draws me into Stone Rain, which leaves me praying he doesn’t have an O-Stone, Wurmcoil or Tower…he doesn’t and my attack+Bolt kills him next turn.
Match 4: Grixis Delver 2-0 (pretty even MU)
G1: Keep my first 7 on the play: 3x lands, Vial, Tarfire, Snap, SV. Kill his turn 1 Delver, SV draws me into Remand, which delays his turn 3 Tasigur long enough until I can find a Goyf and Familiar’s Ruse as protection. I set up a play where I can block his Tasigur with my vialed in 5/6 Goyf (thanks Tarfire), Ruse his Terminate and get back Snap. He already dealt himself some damage with fetches and two Goyf attacks plus Bolt/Snap/Bolt finish the job.
G2: Keep 6 of Roast, Spell Snare, Bolt, Snap, 2x lands. Super grindy game. Trading resources for a while. I can counter one AV but he resolves the other. Thanks to Snap, E-Wit, Huntmaster and Cryptic and can get even on CA though and we begin topdeck mode. He draws and plays Delver (don’t think it’s correct to leave him in against us). I topdeck Traverse. Seven lands and a Vial on 3. Search for E-Wit, get back Traverse, play it again and get Keranos, which wins me the game.
Awesome night, 4th Snap felt good, still not sure about the Ruse/Remand swap though. Will need more testing. I'm pretty confident about EC's position in the meta currently. Still need to see how everything shapes out and maybe make some SB adjustments, but so far I'm having tons of fun!
burn used to be a tricky matchup. how has this changed?
I have used what i've learnt over the years to avoid the trap of running too many 4-drops or thragtusks in the side, as they are too slow - instead i'm running a split of 3x kitchen Finks, 1x obstinate Baloth and 1x Huntmaster of the fells in the side, as a "crush burn" package but also a great way to side out counterspells for creatures in certain matchups.
i've also taken to using aether vial rather like cavern of souls, and have been upping my creature-count against control decks, and using what little counters I leave in the deck to just protect my threats. This could be wrong, but it's worked so far. I tend to swap 2xmana leak with 2xdispel for that purpose.
i've been streamlining my main and side so that I have the correct numbers of things to bring *out* against certain decks, rather than the often-seen "hey i've got all this great hate-cards, what do I take out argh"
for instance, against burn i'd side like this:
-4 remand
-2 vendilion clique
-1 serum visions
+3 kitchen finks
+1 obstinate baloth
+1 huntmaster of the fells
+2 dispel
1x visions comes out because games tend to be over so quickly that sculpting hands isn't a viable game-plan, and I need either interaction or creatures. I leave the vials in because we're upping the creature count, and aren't too afraid of artifact removal. Clique is just an expensive blocker. I leave in the "hard" counters but bring out remands, because realistically they aren't for this matchup. Dispel is an all-star, as is spell snare.
again, kind of trimming the fat and putting in more relevant stuff. Could have gone with fulminator mages in the side but stone rain felt a) easier to cast and b) better with snapcaster available, for quick re-buys. for fulminator to double-up you have to have witness. stone rain is much more often a "double" card in the deck because of having 7 recursion effects for spells.
anyway I could go on, but I hope you see my general methodology here.
this list seems pretty tight. I like the single tarfire (it would have been 1x vapor snag) as it gives additional game against decks like affinity and zoo (Which I assume are a problem)
the sideboard particularly seems great. I'm not running any real grave-hate besides 1x scooze in the main, but I figure if I happen to face dredge, 2x anger of the gods will get me there (and be able to be flashed back easily as well).
this list seems close to optimal for what I want to do with the deck. it doesn't have a maindeck non-bo with vial and 4-drops (always was a wrinkle in the strategy that needed fixing) and I'm happy with the inclusion of 1x knuckleblade, after (for years) saying it was mediocre, it has shown itself to be far better in practice than on paper. I guess I should have known better. humble pie and all that.
i've also found that since picking up the deck again i'm seeing new lines of play that I never used to, like i've "levelled up" or something. it's a pretty nice feeling.
Burn has always been a slightly favorable MU for EC. That's probably also because my list is quite good against it (playing 1x Finks, 1x Tarfire, 1-2x Scoozes and Familiar's Ruse) but Goyf as an early roadblock combined with countermagic does a pretty good job at stalling them until you can take control with Cryptic/Ruse + Snap/E-Wit. Like every aggro deck they can just draw the nuts but overall my winrate against Burn is probably 60-70%.
Your sideboard plan against Burn seems solid but I would side out one Cryptic instead of SV. You say you don't have the time to play SV but to play a 4 mana spell that is bad tempo for us?
The plan against Tron seems good but I disagree on siding out the Spell Snares. It doesn't have a ton of targets, but the ones it has are relevant. Most importantly Sylvan Scrying but also Spellskite. Maybe keep one in and sideout a Witness instead? They tend to be clunky against Tron and I definitely never want to see more than one.
Against Control decks I always board in my land destruction too. Manlands can be tough to beat for us (especially Colonnade), land drops matter a lot in Control matches and sometimes I get the chance to cut them off one colour.
Bringing in more creatures is usually correct but this also depends on creatures and the exact deck. Finks are awesome against Grixis and Jund, but less good against UW control lists that run Path. Baloth is awkward against decks without discard.
Looking at your decklist your manabase seems pretty weird. You have no Scalding Tarns I guess? Even without them, only running 4 fetches seems bad if you want to reliably grow Goyf (and have better fixing). Cascade Bluffs seems really out of place and 3 manlands with only 20 lands seems greedy. I'm pretty sure that will cost you games against fast decks because you can't play your spells on time.
Nice to hear you feel like improving your skills with the deck. It's really hard to play optimally. In my experience writing down matches after playing (especially after loosing) helps me a lot to see where I could have done something differently and improve my play.
Looking at your decklist your manabase seems pretty weird. You have no Scalding Tarns I guess? Even without them, only running 4 fetches seems bad if you want to reliably grow Goyf (and have better fixing). Cascade Bluffs seems really out of place and 3 manlands with only 20 lands seems greedy. I'm pretty sure that will cost you games against fast decks because you can't play your spells on time.
thanks for the advice on other stuff. I'd like to concentrate on your manabase comment a bit more:
- ever since running Anger of the Gods in the side, i've been a proponent of the 1x cascade bluffs. it also helps by filtering a stomping ground into double U & i've found it to compliment the manabase very well in many situations (bolt-snap-bolt happens frequently so double red is a definite thing). when i've previously run 2x flooded grove, I often felt like i needed that 50/50 split of the two, because while red is a small splash for the deck it's often very important, as well as a bottleneck in terms of mana. I can understand why players of the deck would disagree with me though.
- you are correct about scalding tarns. I traded them away when they spiked (including a foil) and am waiting for them to get reprinted =(. in the meantime, i've been coping. we probably only run 6 fetches anyway, right?
- finally on the manlands - I find with this deck, our main enemy is running out of gas & it can happen with an opponent at a precariously low life total. having access to extra sources of damage has won me a lot of games since 2012 when I picked the deck up. I wouldn't feel comfortable running less than 3 manlands, although admittedly there's some flex insofar as which ones are best. I like treetop village the most despite being the least flexible one, as it's super quick to get online and can add to your clock while still presenting counterspells fairly early in the game. the disadvantage of entering tapped is a real consideration, which is why I don't run more. raging ravine is actually just brilliant & has saved my bacon on numerous occasions. it's just another angle of attack and can make the difference in a big way when you've got your opponent's board tapped down and you need to swing for lethal that turn or die.
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Thanks for link!
List seems solid (pretty close to the one that won the face to face 5k). I wouldn't run the second Electrolyze and the SB could be better but I've seen worse lists.
Well I guess we disagree on Cascade Bluffs then. I prefer the second Flooded Grove because it helps a lot with E-Wit and Scavenging Ooze. It also turns Stomping Ground into a blue source just as Bluffs does. And I don't really get the lategame Bolt/Snap/Bolt thing either. In about 90 of my games I have a red source by turn 2 (Landbase is designed to have it by turn 1, we wanna play Bolt early, it's why Spirebluff Canal is really good for us). If I need double red in the lategame, any other normal dual land will do. Bluffs gets me to 3 red sources, which is rarely necessary.
I can really get behind your thinking about the manlands. I know the feeling all to good, getting into topdeck mode and then just not drawing something relevant (lands, vials) feels aweful. That has gotten a lot better since I only play 20 lands though. I guess that's more of a meta question. If you expect lots of grindy decks playing more manlands is a good option. It definitely takes points from your Burn/Infect/Affinity MUs though. The other thing is we just don't have a good manland that fits our playstyle. You said it, Treetop Village is usually the best one because it's so cheap to activate. We really want to hold up counterspells. Only tapping for green makes it way to awkward to run multiples though. Our other options are Raging Ravine and Lumbering Falls. Both solid cards, but activating and attacking with them while holding up counterspells is really only possible in the super late game, which sucks (I really really hoped for something good that taps for 1GU as the Simic manland when BfZ came out).
As you are playing Tarfire anyway aswell, maybe try out what I did and replace the 21st land with a 1x Traverse the Ulvenwald and treat it as a land that gets way better lategame.
Regarding fetches, every build I have seen that put up results ran 8. Every modern 3 colour deck (besides Bant Eldrazi) runs at least 8. They are the best mana fixers available for us and they grow Goyf (beating down with a 2/3 instead of a 3/4 or a 3/4 instead of 4/5 makes a huge difference against Tron and the likes). I'd highly advise you to run 8.
You don't even need the Tarns, in 95% of cases Flooded Strand or Polluted Delta do the exact same job.
Sleeve up the Strands first and give them some test matches. I personally only play a single Stomping Ground that can be fetched by Tarns and not Strands. Basic Mountain deosn't help me against Blood Moon and without it I'm more consistent to play Cryptic on turn 4. So far it has been worth it over the fact that I can fetch a pain free red source in my opinion.
Which actually makes me think if I can drop the second Flooded Grove and replace it with a Lumbering Falls maybe. Think I'm gonna give that some testing.
On the other hand, with Revolt currently in Standard we won't see fetches at least until after Amonkhet.
I played a match last night and it was tricky. Game 1 I had some removal but got crunched by the blue guy who pumps artifacts and becomes huge. Game 2 I had to mull to 5 and drew a reasonable chain of removal, but then hugely misplayed and punted the game. (choice was cryptic-bounce Cranial plating during combat and draw blank card, or take some extra damage, go to 7 and bounce Cranial in his end step, and counter the plating when he tries to cast it following turn. Bouncing the plating in his end step was correct, but I punted by allowing him to just recast it after combat and died a couple of turns later)
Despite the misplay (who knows could maybe have taken game 3) it still seems super tricky. I sided like this:
-4 remand
-1 serum visions
+2 ancient grudge
+2 anger of the gods
+1 hurkyl's recall
Despite bringing in 5 cards I didn't feel like I had control of the game in the way that I would have liked. And true I mulled to 5 but that's a facet of playing any deck. Over the course of large tournaments it needs to be able to survive from mulligans.
Any ideas for alternative or more sideboard cards to run? I'm considering strongly putting a second electrolyze in the maindeck and dropping to 3x remand.
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Very good question about the Vials against Burn. I haven't really thought about that yet honestly. So far I left them in. It's nice to be able to vial in creatures under Eidolon and makes surprise blocks. When I have the time I will give that some testing against a friend of mine who plays Burn regularly.
So far I'd say it depends on the fact if your opponent sees the Vial game 1 or recognizes the deck (because if he doesn't it seems better to leave them in).
Regarding Affinity I think our MU is actually solid enough. So unless you are expecting a lot of Affinity I don't think it's worth it to dedicate more SB slots to it than you already do Purklefluff.
If you expect a lot of Affinity stocking up on Ancient Grudge is definitely your safest bet regarding the SB. You can also play the 3rd Spell Snare main (awesome against Affinity and a ton of other decks), replace your Tarfire with Forked Bolt (also good against Elves, Infect, Lingering Souls and mana dork heavy decks as well as the mirror if you should ever encounter that haha).
Also don't side out the Serum Visions. We want to find our SB cards. SV helps us to find our SB cards. Savage Knuckleblade seems a lot worse in the MU for example.
How has Hurkyll's Recall been for you? I haven't played much with it but it seems worse than just playing the 3rd Ancient Grudge.
We don't play the tempo game against Affinity, we play the control game and Recall doesn't really help that plan.
If you want more SB cards that are useful against Affinity but can also be used against other strategies here are some from the top of my head: Engineered Explosives, Natural State, Izzet Staticaster, Sudden Shock, Spreading Seas, Pyroclasm, Kozilek's Return, Ceremonious Rejection
Very good question about the Vials against Burn. I haven't really thought about that yet honestly. So far I left them in. It's nice to be able to vial in creatures under Eidolon and makes surprise blocks. When I have the time I will give that some testing against a friend of mine who plays Burn regularly.
So far I'd say it depends on the fact if your opponent sees the Vial game 1 or recognizes the deck (because if he doesn't it seems better to leave them in).
Regarding Affinity I think our MU is actually solid enough. So unless you are expecting a lot of Affinity I don't think it's worth it to dedicate more SB slots to it than you already do Purklefluff.
If you expect a lot of Affinity stocking up on Ancient Grudge is definitely your safest bet regarding the SB. You can also play the 3rd Spell Snare main (awesome against Affinity and a ton of other decks), replace your Tarfire with Forked Bolt (also good against Elves, Infect, Lingering Souls and mana dork heavy decks as well as the mirror if you should ever encounter that haha).
Also don't side out the Serum Visions. We want to find our SB cards. SV helps us to find our SB cards. Savage Knuckleblade seems a lot worse in the MU for example.
How has Hurkyll's Recall been for you? I haven't played much with it but it seems worse than just playing the 3rd Ancient Grudge.
We don't play the tempo game against Affinity, we play the control game and Recall doesn't really help that plan.
If you want more SB cards that are useful against Affinity but can also be used against other strategies here are some from the top of my head: Engineered Explosives, Natural State, Izzet Staticaster, Sudden Shock, Spreading Seas, Pyroclasm, Kozilek's Return, Ceremonious Rejection
Ok so I won fnm (beating affinity in round 1)
Round 1 affinity:
Game 1 - get stomped in 3 minutes flat.
Game 2 - mull to FOUR! Drew three no-land hands. My opponent mulled to 5 apparently having a similar issue. I started by bolting his signal pest, and drew an ancient grudge around turn 4 while he was struggling to get some aggression going. I forced him to make a shaky block against 2 goyfs with the blue */* Lord creature, and an inkmoth nexus. Bolt the nexus, make the Lord smaller, gets blown out by goyf.
Game 3 - keep 7 while opponent mulls to 6. Have bolt and anger in hand, but end up not needing to ever cast anger. Am able to bolt an early etched champion without metalcraft, and effectively win the game with a snapped-bolt the following turn. Opponent concedes when hellbent and me on 5 cards and a threat.
Round 2, UB thopter-sword combo.
Game 1 - lose a long drawn-out grindy game with a couple of dumb misplays (running my scooze into a spell snare when I knew he had it and had a vial on 1 counter, just waiting a turn would have been fine). This first game lasted 35 minutes.
Game 2 - made an effort to play fast, and leveraged a hand of multiple bolts and goyfs for a fast win.
Game 3 - 5 minutes on the clock!! get started by shocking myself and bolting my opponent in their end step. They play serum visions & pass, I immediately drop goyf and effectively force them to have removal. Get in for a swing & get a raging ravine fatal pushed. At some point I draw a second bolt and an eternal witness. As we hit turns I electrolyze my opponent in their end step and spell snare a terminate on my goyf. Swing for 4 and witness-bolt for the final 3 damage, winning our third game in 5 minutes flat.
Round 3: grinding station myr retriever combo? Infinite mill loop basically.
Get comboed game 1 on turn 4 and remember this deck from standard.
Game 2 I drop turn 1 vial and tempo him out hard, winning in just a handful of turns.
Game 3 he draws air for a while and I get the beats on. He starts milling me out and I hit an ancient grudge. Flash it back. Dispelled. Luckily there's 2 in the deck. unfortunately it was the very last card in the deck. Feels bad & if i'd read your comment earlier I would have gone to fnm with a 3rd grudge.
Ended up first place due to others having draws instead of wins, so I was only player with only 1 loss no draws on the night. Sort of meh but I'll take it.
So on balance I feel happy with maybe dropping the hurkyl's recall for a 3rd grudge. Sound advice. Hate losing to affinity, lantern, and random artifact combo/nonsense. They are also ok-ish against tron?
Went up to 3x anger in the sideboard. Feels good against the myriad aggro decks out there (& the inevitable dredge player that shows up)
I've been testing the deck pretty hard since I picked it back up and one thing has been bugging me slightly; I haven't managed to execute the 'combo' once yet, against any opponent. This isn't due to removal or interaction, I just haven't drawn the cards! I felt like this was an issue so last night I tried running 4x cryptics to increase my chances of seeing one. I did draw a couple of cryptics last night, but unfortunately at the same time, my 20-land manabase reared its ugly head and I was stuck on 3 lands on a few occasions (still won, but it was tough).
It's a small sample size, and I could be wrong but maybe I should go back up to 21 lands.
I'm thinking it might be an idea to try to include 2x surgical extraction in the deck, as while I'm OK against dredge (anger) I'm weak to random graveyard-based combo. The ability to recur extraction several times could be a big game. I know that had I drawn an extraction effect last night in two of my matches, I would have been a game-win due to the instant speed graveyard hate.
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
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If you were to play bant, you could play other creatures instead (knight, spell queller, voice of resurgence, etc).
I think you'll feel the lack of finishing power a lot, but its possibly very manageable.
BTW. I've seen that a lot of ppl run 20 lands. is that on the sketchy side or? I would normally play 22-23 lands
In bant, you'll likely want more like 21-22 though.
Cody is right again here. 20-21 lands is correct with RUG builds (I personally run 1x Traverse the Ulvenwald instead of land number 21. has been fine so far). Bant probably wants 21-22 lands.
Lacking Bolt and Electrolyze Bant has a harder time killing creatures efficiently and closing out the game (no Bolt/Snap/Bolt hurts a lot).
I haven't found an optimal Bant list yet (but I also haven't tried in a while) but a more creature centric, value build seems to be the best approach to me. Kitchen Finks, Restoration Angel, maybe Spell Queller. And if you wanna run Familiar's Ruse maybe even give Thraben Inspector a chance because nothing beats playing a Vial turn 1 and hardcountering their stuff for value turn 2 haha.
Seems like Remand was MVP for him. 21 lands (1x Lumbering Falls) and 3x Spell Snare. Overall pretty standard list without mayn gimmicks.
A little late (had a pretty busy week) but I got another report from my FNM for you.
Went 4-0 again!
Match 1: Burn 2-0
G1: He opens with Guide into Swiftspear, Bolt. Swiftspear gets Bolted, Goyf walls for a turn but then trades with Swiftspear+Searing Blaze. My opponent gets me down to 4 but I can stabilize with Snap+Familiar's Ruse and Kitchen Finks seals the deal.
G2: He opens with Guide again but is stuck on one land for a few turns. Doesn't prevent him from applying more pressure in another Guide, Lava Spike, Bolt. He gets me down to 7 where I stabilize with Spell Snare, Snap and Ruse again.
Match 2: Eldrazi Tron 2-0
I don't know much about the deck, think I got a little lucky but the MU seems better than Bant Eldrazi or Tron.
G1: I open with Vial, Remand his turn 2 TKS, Clique him the next turn, snatch the TKS and leave him with Ulamog, Endbringer and some lands. Vial in Goyf EoT, Cryptic the Endbringer next turn and tempo him out.
G2: This was a bit weird. I think he somehow put me on RUG Delver, so he keeps a very sketchy hand with 2x Wastes, 1x Tron land, Chalice and some big guys but no acceleration. Chalice doesn't really bother me and I just beat him down with two Goyfs and some Bolts.
Match 3: Esper Transcendent (Esper Tapout Control) 2-1
Super grindy games. G1 I manage to win with the E-Wit/Ruse lock, G2: he manages to get Sorin into play (after I countered Narset and had no more mana open) and continues to drown me in Lingering Souls tokens. G3: I draw and stick my Staticaster to deal with the tokens and once I resolved Keranos (searching for him with Traverse feels gooood) he never really came back.
Match 4: Affinity 2-1
G1: He has a slow start and Spell Snare, Bolt and two Snaps keep him under control while Goyf starts beating down.
G2: I mull to five, keep a good hand if I draw another land (fetch, visions, Bolt, Snap, Ancient Grudge). dont find another land for 3 turns. He steamrolls me.
G3: Goes pretty much like game one, Snare his Plating, Bolt the Overseer, Snap Snare Ravager. SV finds me Ancient Grudge and it's GG.
Really nice performance overall. I know I say this all the time, but the deck is solid! And super fun to play!
I've had the deck built in a deckbox for the best part of 4 years but apart from a period of heavy play and testing a while back, I've not really found the metagame to be that favourable. In addition I've regularly played the deck (or talked about it at least) at FNMs and most people haven't heard of it. Add to this the fact that it didn't get any significant wins over a long period of time.
But that seems to be changing. I've seen a bunch of fairly high profile wins and videos shared recently, indicating that the deck seems to be having something of a renaissance. I'm totally excited for this, because it's my favourite deck of all time. Any opportunity to pick it up alongside other testers and actually have some decent testing conversation is an opportunity I won't miss.
I tested last night. Beat grixis control and esper control. Both good players. Esper list wasnt 100% but nearly optimal. Beat both. Many games ended in a flurry of bolts for the win, and I was aggressively eot bolting opponent's face quite a bit to just keep the pressure on.
List:
4x snapcaster mage
3x eternal witness
4x tarmogoyf
1x scavenging ooze
1x savage knuckleblade
2x vendilion clique
instants & sorceries (21):
4x lightning bolt
1x tarfire
4x serum visions
2x spell snare
2x mana leak
4x remand
1x electrolyze
3x cryptic command
4x aether vial
lands (20):
2x breeding pool
2x steam vents
1x stomping ground
1x cascade bluffs
1x flooded grove
1x forest
1x mountain
3x island
1x hinterland harbor
4x misty rainforest
2x raging ravine
1x treetop village
2x kitchen finks
2x huntmaster of the fells
1x obstinate baloth
2x dispel
2x ancient grudge
1x negate
2x anger of the gods
3x stone rain
I would normally run 2x scooze main, but I felt like having a more powerful 3-drop is beneficial in games where you take vial to 3 and want something chunky. never properly tested with knockleblade before but last night he impressed greatly. flashing him in with mana open feels great. chunked an opponent down from 15 in 2 turns flat last night, with counter-backup and a bolt to finish them off.
I'm back on board peeps. Let's get the train rolling.
Do you happen to have some links for the high profile wins and videos you talk about? I'm checking MtGTop8 and youtube every now and then, but besides the Face to Face Games Toronto win I haven't seen the deck appearing anywhere this year yet. Would just love to see some more decklists.
I can't find the videos I was referring to - they appeared in my recommended feed on youtube, and also cropped up in discussions with people about the deck. I know that one particular vid was from late last year and wasn't "current", but recent. either way, i'm happy to see people brewing and on the deck.
I'll be taking it to FNM this week, as well as Thursday-night testing. (i've been on mono-U turns for ages, am comfortable with that deck, and i'm diversifying to prepare myself for a different metagame in the summer for GP season in the UK)
@VidarThor: Red is the only one that has seen some known success over the last year. BUG is pretty much unexplored and has a lot of potencial now with Fatal Push. Bant is probably the weakest colour combo right now but also not very explored.
I took the deck to FNM on Friday and went 4-0 again woop woop!
I did a small change in the list and replaced 1x Ruse with the 4th Remand and 1x Scooze with the 4th Snappy.
Match 1: RG Breach Titan 2-1 (favorable MU)
G1: On the draw I mull to 5 and keep Vial, SV, Clique, 2 lands. He ramps with 2x Search for Tomorrow, while SV reveals me E-Wit and Familiar’s Ruse, which sets me up for the lock. Vial on 2 I play Clique at end of his draw step because I got no active counters in hand. The only way he wins is if he has a land and 2x Titan/Pact in his 4 card hand. He has 2x Titans and a land…
G2: Keep a onelander with SV, Traverse, Goyf, Cryptic, Snap, Remand, land. Turn 1 Traverse to make sure I have another land (and grow Goyf past Bolt). Turn 2 Goyf and then ride him home on the back of Remand, Snap, Cryptic bounce Snap and Bolt.
G3: Mull to 6, keep 2 lands, Vial, Clique, Snap, 2x Remand. He has a slow start so Clique comes in timely enough to snag away his Through the Breach, attacks a few turns then gets bolted. I follow up with a vialed in Goyf while my hand is full of 2x Snap and 2x Remand.
Match 2: Naya Burn 2-0 (slightly favorable MU)
G1: Keep 7 of 3 lands, Bolt, Spell Snare, Goyf. Cryptic on the play. Bolt his Goblin Guide, play Goyf to wall other creatures. He plays Swifty and Lava Spike. Next turn I counter his Searing Blaze and continue to stabilize with Cryptic into Snap while still on comfortable 13 life.
G2: Mull to 5, keep Vial, Bolt, Finks, 2x lands. He doesn’t have a turn one creature so I can play my Vial, Bolt his turn 2 Eidolon. He follows up with 2x Bolt and 2x Boros Charm, gets me down to 4 before I can vial in Kitchen Finks to block his top decked Goblin Guide. Up to 8 again and I topdeck…Familiar’s Ruse! Counter his next Lava Spike, return Finks to hand and vial it in again. Up on 10 life again I win the game on the back of a Cryptic, Snap Ruse and Bolt/Snap/Bolt.
Match 3: Gr Tron 2-1 (Slightly unfavorable MU)
G1: mull to 5 keep SV, Goyf, Bolt, 2x land on the draw. He has turn 3 Karn…G2
G2: Snap keep 7 of 3 lands, Vial, Remand, Goyf, Stone Rain. Remand his turn 2 Sylvan Scrying, start applying pressure with vialed in Goyf, draw Snap and go turn 3 Stone Rain, Turn 4 Vial in Snap, Stone Rain again. He doesn’t come back from that.
G3: Mull to 6, keep Clique, Goyf, Remand, Cryptic 3x lands. He starts with turn 1 Groves, I know he won’t have turn 3 Tron, so I drop my Goyf turn 2, Remand his turn 4 Karn and play Clique at end of his turn 5 draw step, get to see some lands, 2x eggs, Karn and Ulamog. Need to take the Ulamog. He casts karn, exiles Goyf but I can kill the Karn with Clique next turn. Snapcaster remands his next Karn and draws me into Stone Rain, which leaves me praying he doesn’t have an O-Stone, Wurmcoil or Tower…he doesn’t and my attack+Bolt kills him next turn.
Match 4: Grixis Delver 2-0 (pretty even MU)
G1: Keep my first 7 on the play: 3x lands, Vial, Tarfire, Snap, SV. Kill his turn 1 Delver, SV draws me into Remand, which delays his turn 3 Tasigur long enough until I can find a Goyf and Familiar’s Ruse as protection. I set up a play where I can block his Tasigur with my vialed in 5/6 Goyf (thanks Tarfire), Ruse his Terminate and get back Snap. He already dealt himself some damage with fetches and two Goyf attacks plus Bolt/Snap/Bolt finish the job.
G2: Keep 6 of Roast, Spell Snare, Bolt, Snap, 2x lands. Super grindy game. Trading resources for a while. I can counter one AV but he resolves the other. Thanks to Snap, E-Wit, Huntmaster and Cryptic and can get even on CA though and we begin topdeck mode. He draws and plays Delver (don’t think it’s correct to leave him in against us). I topdeck Traverse. Seven lands and a Vial on 3. Search for E-Wit, get back Traverse, play it again and get Keranos, which wins me the game.
Awesome night, 4th Snap felt good, still not sure about the Ruse/Remand swap though. Will need more testing. I'm pretty confident about EC's position in the meta currently. Still need to see how everything shapes out and maybe make some SB adjustments, but so far I'm having tons of fun!
I have used what i've learnt over the years to avoid the trap of running too many 4-drops or thragtusks in the side, as they are too slow - instead i'm running a split of 3x kitchen Finks, 1x obstinate Baloth and 1x Huntmaster of the fells in the side, as a "crush burn" package but also a great way to side out counterspells for creatures in certain matchups.
i've also taken to using aether vial rather like cavern of souls, and have been upping my creature-count against control decks, and using what little counters I leave in the deck to just protect my threats. This could be wrong, but it's worked so far. I tend to swap 2xmana leak with 2xdispel for that purpose.
i've been streamlining my main and side so that I have the correct numbers of things to bring *out* against certain decks, rather than the often-seen "hey i've got all this great hate-cards, what do I take out argh"
my list as it currently stands:
4x lightning bolt
1x tarfire
1x electrolyze
4x snapcaster mage
4x tarmogoyf
3x eternal witness
2x vendilion clique
1x scavenging ooze
1x savage knuckleblade
4x remand
2x mana leak
2x spell snare
3x cryptic command
4x serum visions
2x breeding pool
2x steam vents
1x stomping ground
3x island
1x mountain
1x forest
1x cascade bluffs
1x flooded grove
1x hinterland harbor
2x raging ravine
1x treetop village
3x kitchen finks
1x huntmaster of the fells
1x obstinate baloth
2x dispel
2x ancient grudge
1x hurkyl's recall
2x anger of the gods
3x stone rain
for instance, against burn i'd side like this:
-4 remand
-2 vendilion clique
-1 serum visions
+3 kitchen finks
+1 obstinate baloth
+1 huntmaster of the fells
+2 dispel
1x visions comes out because games tend to be over so quickly that sculpting hands isn't a viable game-plan, and I need either interaction or creatures. I leave the vials in because we're upping the creature count, and aren't too afraid of artifact removal. Clique is just an expensive blocker. I leave in the "hard" counters but bring out remands, because realistically they aren't for this matchup. Dispel is an all-star, as is spell snare.
against Tron:
-2 spell snare
-1 scavenging ooze
-1 tarfire
-1 electrolyze
+3 stone rain
+2 ancient grudge
again, kind of trimming the fat and putting in more relevant stuff. Could have gone with fulminator mages in the side but stone rain felt a) easier to cast and b) better with snapcaster available, for quick re-buys. for fulminator to double-up you have to have witness. stone rain is much more often a "double" card in the deck because of having 7 recursion effects for spells.
anyway I could go on, but I hope you see my general methodology here.
this list seems pretty tight. I like the single tarfire (it would have been 1x vapor snag) as it gives additional game against decks like affinity and zoo (Which I assume are a problem)
the sideboard particularly seems great. I'm not running any real grave-hate besides 1x scooze in the main, but I figure if I happen to face dredge, 2x anger of the gods will get me there (and be able to be flashed back easily as well).
this list seems close to optimal for what I want to do with the deck. it doesn't have a maindeck non-bo with vial and 4-drops (always was a wrinkle in the strategy that needed fixing) and I'm happy with the inclusion of 1x knuckleblade, after (for years) saying it was mediocre, it has shown itself to be far better in practice than on paper. I guess I should have known better. humble pie and all that.
i've also found that since picking up the deck again i'm seeing new lines of play that I never used to, like i've "levelled up" or something. it's a pretty nice feeling.
Your sideboard plan against Burn seems solid but I would side out one Cryptic instead of SV. You say you don't have the time to play SV but to play a 4 mana spell that is bad tempo for us?
The plan against Tron seems good but I disagree on siding out the Spell Snares. It doesn't have a ton of targets, but the ones it has are relevant. Most importantly Sylvan Scrying but also Spellskite. Maybe keep one in and sideout a Witness instead? They tend to be clunky against Tron and I definitely never want to see more than one.
Against Control decks I always board in my land destruction too. Manlands can be tough to beat for us (especially Colonnade), land drops matter a lot in Control matches and sometimes I get the chance to cut them off one colour.
Bringing in more creatures is usually correct but this also depends on creatures and the exact deck. Finks are awesome against Grixis and Jund, but less good against UW control lists that run Path. Baloth is awkward against decks without discard.
Looking at your decklist your manabase seems pretty weird. You have no Scalding Tarns I guess? Even without them, only running 4 fetches seems bad if you want to reliably grow Goyf (and have better fixing). Cascade Bluffs seems really out of place and 3 manlands with only 20 lands seems greedy. I'm pretty sure that will cost you games against fast decks because you can't play your spells on time.
Nice to hear you feel like improving your skills with the deck. It's really hard to play optimally. In my experience writing down matches after playing (especially after loosing) helps me a lot to see where I could have done something differently and improve my play.
thanks for the advice on other stuff. I'd like to concentrate on your manabase comment a bit more:
- ever since running Anger of the Gods in the side, i've been a proponent of the 1x cascade bluffs. it also helps by filtering a stomping ground into double U & i've found it to compliment the manabase very well in many situations (bolt-snap-bolt happens frequently so double red is a definite thing). when i've previously run 2x flooded grove, I often felt like i needed that 50/50 split of the two, because while red is a small splash for the deck it's often very important, as well as a bottleneck in terms of mana. I can understand why players of the deck would disagree with me though.
- you are correct about scalding tarns. I traded them away when they spiked (including a foil) and am waiting for them to get reprinted =(. in the meantime, i've been coping. we probably only run 6 fetches anyway, right?
- finally on the manlands - I find with this deck, our main enemy is running out of gas & it can happen with an opponent at a precariously low life total. having access to extra sources of damage has won me a lot of games since 2012 when I picked the deck up. I wouldn't feel comfortable running less than 3 manlands, although admittedly there's some flex insofar as which ones are best. I like treetop village the most despite being the least flexible one, as it's super quick to get online and can add to your clock while still presenting counterspells fairly early in the game. the disadvantage of entering tapped is a real consideration, which is why I don't run more. raging ravine is actually just brilliant & has saved my bacon on numerous occasions. it's just another angle of attack and can make the difference in a big way when you've got your opponent's board tapped down and you need to swing for lethal that turn or die.
list seems sort of suboptimal though? not entirely sure.
List seems solid (pretty close to the one that won the face to face 5k). I wouldn't run the second Electrolyze and the SB could be better but I've seen worse lists.
Well I guess we disagree on Cascade Bluffs then. I prefer the second Flooded Grove because it helps a lot with E-Wit and Scavenging Ooze. It also turns Stomping Ground into a blue source just as Bluffs does. And I don't really get the lategame Bolt/Snap/Bolt thing either. In about 90 of my games I have a red source by turn 2 (Landbase is designed to have it by turn 1, we wanna play Bolt early, it's why Spirebluff Canal is really good for us). If I need double red in the lategame, any other normal dual land will do. Bluffs gets me to 3 red sources, which is rarely necessary.
I can really get behind your thinking about the manlands. I know the feeling all to good, getting into topdeck mode and then just not drawing something relevant (lands, vials) feels aweful. That has gotten a lot better since I only play 20 lands though. I guess that's more of a meta question. If you expect lots of grindy decks playing more manlands is a good option. It definitely takes points from your Burn/Infect/Affinity MUs though. The other thing is we just don't have a good manland that fits our playstyle. You said it, Treetop Village is usually the best one because it's so cheap to activate. We really want to hold up counterspells. Only tapping for green makes it way to awkward to run multiples though. Our other options are Raging Ravine and Lumbering Falls. Both solid cards, but activating and attacking with them while holding up counterspells is really only possible in the super late game, which sucks (I really really hoped for something good that taps for 1GU as the Simic manland when BfZ came out).
As you are playing Tarfire anyway aswell, maybe try out what I did and replace the 21st land with a 1x Traverse the Ulvenwald and treat it as a land that gets way better lategame.
Regarding fetches, every build I have seen that put up results ran 8. Every modern 3 colour deck (besides Bant Eldrazi) runs at least 8. They are the best mana fixers available for us and they grow Goyf (beating down with a 2/3 instead of a 3/4 or a 3/4 instead of 4/5 makes a huge difference against Tron and the likes). I'd highly advise you to run 8.
You don't even need the Tarns, in 95% of cases Flooded Strand or Polluted Delta do the exact same job.
ouch, I have flooded strands but they seem kinda weak. Better than nothing I suppose?
I'm selling off a bunch of cards atm, so might be able to pick up a set of tarns fairly soon.
cheers bud
Which actually makes me think if I can drop the second Flooded Grove and replace it with a Lumbering Falls maybe. Think I'm gonna give that some testing.
On the other hand, with Revolt currently in Standard we won't see fetches at least until after Amonkhet.
I played a match last night and it was tricky. Game 1 I had some removal but got crunched by the blue guy who pumps artifacts and becomes huge. Game 2 I had to mull to 5 and drew a reasonable chain of removal, but then hugely misplayed and punted the game. (choice was cryptic-bounce Cranial plating during combat and draw blank card, or take some extra damage, go to 7 and bounce Cranial in his end step, and counter the plating when he tries to cast it following turn. Bouncing the plating in his end step was correct, but I punted by allowing him to just recast it after combat and died a couple of turns later)
Despite the misplay (who knows could maybe have taken game 3) it still seems super tricky. I sided like this:
-4 remand
-1 serum visions
+2 ancient grudge
+2 anger of the gods
+1 hurkyl's recall
Despite bringing in 5 cards I didn't feel like I had control of the game in the way that I would have liked. And true I mulled to 5 but that's a facet of playing any deck. Over the course of large tournaments it needs to be able to survive from mulligans.
Any ideas for alternative or more sideboard cards to run? I'm considering strongly putting a second electrolyze in the maindeck and dropping to 3x remand.
So far I'd say it depends on the fact if your opponent sees the Vial game 1 or recognizes the deck (because if he doesn't it seems better to leave them in).
Regarding Affinity I think our MU is actually solid enough. So unless you are expecting a lot of Affinity I don't think it's worth it to dedicate more SB slots to it than you already do Purklefluff.
If you expect a lot of Affinity stocking up on Ancient Grudge is definitely your safest bet regarding the SB. You can also play the 3rd Spell Snare main (awesome against Affinity and a ton of other decks), replace your Tarfire with Forked Bolt (also good against Elves, Infect, Lingering Souls and mana dork heavy decks as well as the mirror if you should ever encounter that haha).
Also don't side out the Serum Visions. We want to find our SB cards. SV helps us to find our SB cards. Savage Knuckleblade seems a lot worse in the MU for example.
How has Hurkyll's Recall been for you? I haven't played much with it but it seems worse than just playing the 3rd Ancient Grudge.
We don't play the tempo game against Affinity, we play the control game and Recall doesn't really help that plan.
If you want more SB cards that are useful against Affinity but can also be used against other strategies here are some from the top of my head:
Engineered Explosives, Natural State, Izzet Staticaster, Sudden Shock, Spreading Seas, Pyroclasm, Kozilek's Return, Ceremonious Rejection
Ok so I won fnm (beating affinity in round 1)
Round 1 affinity:
Game 1 - get stomped in 3 minutes flat.
Game 2 - mull to FOUR! Drew three no-land hands. My opponent mulled to 5 apparently having a similar issue. I started by bolting his signal pest, and drew an ancient grudge around turn 4 while he was struggling to get some aggression going. I forced him to make a shaky block against 2 goyfs with the blue */* Lord creature, and an inkmoth nexus. Bolt the nexus, make the Lord smaller, gets blown out by goyf.
Game 3 - keep 7 while opponent mulls to 6. Have bolt and anger in hand, but end up not needing to ever cast anger. Am able to bolt an early etched champion without metalcraft, and effectively win the game with a snapped-bolt the following turn. Opponent concedes when hellbent and me on 5 cards and a threat.
Round 2, UB thopter-sword combo.
Game 1 - lose a long drawn-out grindy game with a couple of dumb misplays (running my scooze into a spell snare when I knew he had it and had a vial on 1 counter, just waiting a turn would have been fine). This first game lasted 35 minutes.
Game 2 - made an effort to play fast, and leveraged a hand of multiple bolts and goyfs for a fast win.
Game 3 - 5 minutes on the clock!! get started by shocking myself and bolting my opponent in their end step. They play serum visions & pass, I immediately drop goyf and effectively force them to have removal. Get in for a swing & get a raging ravine fatal pushed. At some point I draw a second bolt and an eternal witness. As we hit turns I electrolyze my opponent in their end step and spell snare a terminate on my goyf. Swing for 4 and witness-bolt for the final 3 damage, winning our third game in 5 minutes flat.
Round 3: grinding station myr retriever combo? Infinite mill loop basically.
Get comboed game 1 on turn 4 and remember this deck from standard.
Game 2 I drop turn 1 vial and tempo him out hard, winning in just a handful of turns.
Game 3 he draws air for a while and I get the beats on. He starts milling me out and I hit an ancient grudge. Flash it back. Dispelled. Luckily there's 2 in the deck. unfortunately it was the very last card in the deck. Feels bad & if i'd read your comment earlier I would have gone to fnm with a 3rd grudge.
Ended up first place due to others having draws instead of wins, so I was only player with only 1 loss no draws on the night. Sort of meh but I'll take it.
So on balance I feel happy with maybe dropping the hurkyl's recall for a 3rd grudge. Sound advice. Hate losing to affinity, lantern, and random artifact combo/nonsense. They are also ok-ish against tron?
Went up to 3x anger in the sideboard. Feels good against the myriad aggro decks out there (& the inevitable dredge player that shows up)
I've been testing the deck pretty hard since I picked it back up and one thing has been bugging me slightly; I haven't managed to execute the 'combo' once yet, against any opponent. This isn't due to removal or interaction, I just haven't drawn the cards! I felt like this was an issue so last night I tried running 4x cryptics to increase my chances of seeing one. I did draw a couple of cryptics last night, but unfortunately at the same time, my 20-land manabase reared its ugly head and I was stuck on 3 lands on a few occasions (still won, but it was tough).
It's a small sample size, and I could be wrong but maybe I should go back up to 21 lands.
Also Wondering about eldrazi. Is the matchup OK?
Assuming my maindeck is fairly "standard", here's my sideboard
1x scavenging ooze
2x obstinate baloth
1x kitchen finks
3x stone rain
2x dispel
3x anger of the gods
I'm thinking it might be an idea to try to include 2x surgical extraction in the deck, as while I'm OK against dredge (anger) I'm weak to random graveyard-based combo. The ability to recur extraction several times could be a big game. I know that had I drawn an extraction effect last night in two of my matches, I would have been a game-win due to the instant speed graveyard hate.