I only found one post on this, and it was from a while ago, but if I missed something, LMK!
So, the other day I was browsing TC Decks' Modern section, and I saw Solar Flare listed as an archetype. I've played the deck briefly in standard and thought it was was pretty cool, and it really does feel workable in this format.
Anyway, I've done some small testing with a deck similar to this one piloted by someone to a top 8 in an 86-man tournament. It looks like it had a lot of Zoo and other aggro in it.
I lost to Solar Flare in my most recent tournament. We were playing for 2nd place. By far, the most brutal creature that was reanimated against me was Sheoldred, Wispering One. She was a house and just kept reanimating Angel of Despair. Just my opinion from a guy being on the other end of it.
If you want to read my tournament report, it's under the Enduring Ideal forum just above this one. I go into detail on the Solar Flare matchup.
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Sheoldred seems better as a reanimate-able 6/6 attacking Debtor's Knell that kills your opponents' creatures as well.
I like your build, but I think it should be run more like a control deck which can activate a fast clock, rather than a tempo deck. So I would cut down on the remands.
The deck in the OP isn't actually my build, it was just one that topped in a big tourney not too long ago.
I agree that Remand is out of place, and that our mana base should consist more of shocks (see the changes I made in the OP). Teachings is another interesting one. What would you guys think of Think Twice?
Sheoldred seems win more IMO. Usually controlling the game to a standstill and then going Unburial => Sun Titan => Snapcaster => Esper Charm/another spell is enough to win right there.
I'm also working on Solar Flare, but with Gifts Ungiven and a more proactive game plan (Inquisition of Kozilek, MD Vendilion Clique, more spot removal/board sweepers) rather than reactive because IMO counterspells have too narrow of a window to be cast in a format as fast as Modern (takes a really good player to anticipate AND successfully intercept the opponents' spells).
I might get flank for suggesting this but I'm considering running Thirst for Knowledge over Forbidden Alchemy, even with 0 artifacts. I've run into the situation of naturally drawing the mana-intensive reanimation targets and Forbidden Alchemy doesn't help dump them in the GY. Think about it. Both cards are similar in the sense that it only replaces itself. The advantage of FA is that it digs one card deeper, but TfK allows selection. FA can be awkward at times if the 4 cards you drew are needed esp. Snapcaster Mage, cheap spot removal and lands. If Chrome Mox and artifact lands weren't banned, I would have run TfK in a heartbeat but for now, I know it sounds weird.
I see that the decklist uses Liliana of the Veil as a backup discard engine but I'm just not too sure if it's optimal since it's weak against the best decks, Zoo (probably dead after 1 activation), and Splinter Twin (tapping out for a PW isn't a good idea). However, since I play Gifts, I run 1 copy.
Gifts seems like a good route to go with this deck. If we did that, I still think we'd be different enough than the Esper Gifts deck. I would still probably run 4 Rune Snag over Remand and something else there, though. It's so nice.
@MightyFlameboy: Liliana I honestly wouldn't want to drop below 3 copies. She dominates games once she comes down after a little set-up (like after a sweeper or with counter backup). Lily is also a fine discard outlet for those reanimation targets.
Thirst For Knowledge is very good, but I feel like Alchemy's flashback abilities make it better, as the extra cards make a difference in the control matchup. Digging for an answer 1 more card is helpful, too. I'm still hoping for an unbanning of Chrome Mox, though. Such a sick card.
Siding Threads of Disloyalty also seems very sick. O-Ring will also help this deck, as Planeswalkers are difficult to deal with outside of an Angel of Despair, as I found out in a recent Bant matchup.
Gifts seems like a good route to go with this deck. If we did that, I still think we'd be different enough than the Esper Gifts deck. I would still probably run 4 Rune Snag over Remand and something else there, though. It's so nice.
@MightyFlameboy: Liliana I honestly wouldn't want to drop below 3 copies. She dominates games once she comes down after a little set-up (like after a sweeper or with counter backup). Lily is also a fine discard outlet for those reanimation targets.
Thirst For Knowledge is very good, but I feel like Alchemy's flashback abilities make it better, as the extra cards make a difference in the control matchup. Digging for an answer 1 more card is helpful, too. I'm still hoping for an unbanning of Chrome Mox, though. Such a sick card.
Siding Threads of Disloyalty also seems very sick. O-Ring will also help this deck, as Planeswalkers are difficult to deal with outside of an Angel of Despair, as I found out in a recent Bant matchup.
There are just too many goodies in UWB and Gifts allows us to play as many of those goodies as possible, get away with playing singletons, yet not sacrificing consistency. Not to mention that the Sun Titan/Snapcaster Mage synergies make them work double duty. I would have loved to play Gideon Jura, Elspeth, Knight-Errant, heck even Venser, the Sojourner but they fall outside of the boundaries of Titan/SCM engines...
I've been out of the loop for quite sometime so I may not understand the potential of Liliana. According to some of my friends' experiences using her in T2, her + ability is situational since it's not always we have a fatty to dump in the GY, so they couldn't do anything with her for a few turns. But that's for T2. How are you using her in Modern?
How often is Forbidden Alchemy's flashback relevant? 7 mana is hefty and shouldn't be relevant in the aggro/combo matchups. However, I do agree that digging 1 extra card might be crucial. With our best card advantage engines banned (Ancestral Visions, Jace, the Mind Sculptor), digging for answers is more important, since this deck slowly build incremental advantages (Sun Titan/Snapcaster Mage) instead of raw card advantage. I'd probably follow your advice and run more Liliana and see if that fixes my problem of drawing into my reanimation targets.
With Sun Titan in play, Kitchen Finks is pretty sick too. Although some are saying that Timely Reinforcements, at the moment is a better choice, since it's Path to Exile proof as well as synergizing with Snapcaster Mage. I think I might play both. Makes for Gifts shenanigans and fueling both Titan/SCM engines. Yeah, we definintely need more PW hate. Despise, maybe?
The BB for Damnation works better with the BB for Liliana of the Veil. WW for Day of Judgment can sometimes clash with Liliana.
If you're going to play day of judgment, just play Wrath of God.
In any case, timely reinforcements is very strong in here, but I would take consideration into playing a split between Rites & Makeshift Mannequin.
Mannequin has a few drawbacks, but being able to instant speed reanimate creatures from the graveyard is quite helpful, and if you're playing something like wurmcoil engine, it negates it's drawback anyway since the wurm will just split in two after it gets targeted (which conveniently saves it from path to exile).
I played a Solar Flare deck in one of our initial Cockatrice tournaments (prior to bannings mind you) and was 3-0 with it before everyone decided to drop. That of course was before more tools became available to it, so it definitely has potential.
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When I was looking through Gatherer for ideas, I realized the interaction between Sun Titan and Court Hussar produces a quirky loop which does its best impression of Impulse. If only the cards are put into GY and not bottom of the library, that'll be sick.
Still, I think it's worth a consideration as a 1-of for the late game, where both players are likely to have run out of gas and the first player to draw something relevant gains a distinct advantage, and Court Hussar provides superior digging (tending toward card selection), in parallel to Jace Beleren (tending toward card advantage).
This deck will have the same problems as with all tricolor decks. Despite playing the best cards in the format, it may not generate a smooth victory. Why? Because of its horrendous manabase and varying color commitments. Darkblade and Solar Flare in recent T2 aren't so hot compared to their consistent and streamlined UW/UB cousins.
I'd steer clear of SoM duals because this deck (at least my version) cannot afford to play a tapped land until about turn 6-7 (turn 1 would be the only remaining opportunity since the deck doesn't run too many 1cc spells), when I should have stabilized the board after sweeping the opponent's creatures, casting Gifts, and reanimating finishers. I'd say filterlands are almost a must. Say, I want to cast Vendilion Clique but only have BW mana. A single Mystic Gate turns the game around, as opposed to other lands which produces a single U mana require 2 whole turns.
I'm not playing Solar Flare in any format, but I just wanted to suggest to you guys a quick look on the original Solar Flare decks back on Ravnica times. It had awesome CA engines like Court Hussar, Remand and other cards.
I think one could get a lot of good ideas from there instead of basing the deck just on the current Standard one.
Ah yes, the Ravnica incarnation of Solar Flare. Solar Pox was more likely to run Haakon, Stromgald Scourge and Court Hussar in tandem. With Nameless Inversion as recurring removal, we might have a viable Knight version on our hands.
The thing with Sun Titan and Court Hussar is that, since Hussar isn't cast, it keeps dying as soon as it hits the battlefield. I'd rather revive Tiago; at least he sticks around.
Against graveyard hate, there is such a thing as hardcasting some of your fatties.
Ah yes, the Ravnica incarnation of Solar Flare. Solar Pox was more likely to run Haakon, Stromgald Scourge and Court Hussar in tandem. With Nameless Inversion as recurring removal, we might have a viable Knight version on our hands.
The thing with Sun Titan and Court Hussar is that, since Hussar isn't cast, it keeps dying as soon as it hits the battlefield. I'd rather revive Tiago; at least he sticks around.
Against graveyard hate, there is such a thing as hardcasting some of your fatties.
Solar flare and solar pox were from 2 different standard seasons, with flare coming first and pox not coming until late into the RAV + CSP + TSP standard while solar flare was Kami + RAV and a bit of TSP before pox picked up.
actually the fact that hussar dies is pretty neat. It is an infinite target if you need it.
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If I were to be given a choice, I would gladly dump Snapcaster Mage in the GY. I would have no use for Court Hussar to be in play unless I'm in dire need of a chump blocker. This interaction provides inevitability in the late-game, as with Jace Beleren and Liliana of the Veil, because with a Sun Titan in play, they can be played "recklessly", repeatedly drawing cards and casting Cruel Edict on your opponent's creatures, goes to the GY due to loyalty counters running out, and Sun Titan conveniently brings it back.
Makeshift Mannequin is an instant speed reanimator that you can use to play a more control route of the deck. Nothing like putting Jin Gitaxis into play at the start of your opponents end step. might have to see how that plays out.
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Gifts + Unburial + Iona in EOT of opponent's turns 4 its gg.
Yep true i'm playing against a version with 2 gifts and everytime it's the GG when you're doing Gift. The fact that you can search for cards that you could cast from your grave with Snapcaster, or searching for a flashback spell.
You should consider putting gift ungiven in the deck.
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So, the other day I was browsing TC Decks' Modern section, and I saw Solar Flare listed as an archetype. I've played the deck briefly in standard and thought it was was pretty cool, and it really does feel workable in this format.
Anyway, I've done some small testing with a deck similar to this one piloted by someone to a top 8 in an 86-man tournament. It looks like it had a lot of Zoo and other aggro in it.
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
2 Angel of Despair
2 Sun Titan
3 Snapcaster Mage
Instants: 19
1 Doom Blade
3 Forbidden Alchemy
3 Path to Exile
4 Esper Charm
4 Remand
4 Spell Snare
Sorcery: 5
2 Damnation
3 Unburial Rites
3 Liliana of the Veil
Land: 24
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Nephalia Drownyard
1 Plains
1 Watery Grave
2 Godless Shrine
2 Island
2 Swamp
2 Verdant Catacombs
4 Darkslick Shores
4 Marsh Flats
4 Seachrome Coast
1 Path to Exile
1 Dismember
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Thoughtseize
2 Repeal
I just straight net-decked it for my initial testing, just to see how it went. Having issues with the mana, I did the following:
-1 Nephalia Drownyard
-1 Seachrome Coast
-1 Swamp
+2 Watery Grave
+1 Hallowed Fountain
After that it worked out much better for me.
Discuss.
If you want to read my tournament report, it's under the Enduring Ideal forum just above this one. I go into detail on the Solar Flare matchup.
Banner creator: mchief111 from Rising Studios [Forum-Website]
I like your build, but I think it should be run more like a control deck which can activate a fast clock, rather than a tempo deck. So I would cut down on the remands.
Maybe go -2 Remand, -2 Esper Charm, +4 Rune Snag?
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I agree that Remand is out of place, and that our mana base should consist more of shocks (see the changes I made in the OP). Teachings is another interesting one. What would you guys think of Think Twice?
Sheoldred seems win more IMO. Usually controlling the game to a standstill and then going Unburial => Sun Titan => Snapcaster => Esper Charm/another spell is enough to win right there.
I might get flank for suggesting this but I'm considering running Thirst for Knowledge over Forbidden Alchemy, even with 0 artifacts. I've run into the situation of naturally drawing the mana-intensive reanimation targets and Forbidden Alchemy doesn't help dump them in the GY. Think about it. Both cards are similar in the sense that it only replaces itself. The advantage of FA is that it digs one card deeper, but TfK allows selection. FA can be awkward at times if the 4 cards you drew are needed esp. Snapcaster Mage, cheap spot removal and lands. If Chrome Mox and artifact lands weren't banned, I would have run TfK in a heartbeat but for now, I know it sounds weird.
I see that the decklist uses Liliana of the Veil as a backup discard engine but I'm just not too sure if it's optimal since it's weak against the best decks, Zoo (probably dead after 1 activation), and Splinter Twin (tapping out for a PW isn't a good idea). However, since I play Gifts, I run 1 copy.
I also feel Sun Titan should have a better package to work with. Recurring just Snapcaster Mage and Liliana of the Veil is a waste of its potential. I run Oblivion Ring, Jace Beleren, SB Kitchen Finks, Threads of Disloyalty, Ghostly Prison and I believe many more are waiting to be discovered.
I read your posts and im really excited with this deck.. well.. not excited but yes i have a lot of faith in his development..
Here is my decklist:
1x Angel of Despair
1x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1x Iona, Shield of Emeria
2x Phantasmal Image
2x Snapcaster Mage
2x Sun Titan
1x Wurmcoil Engine
Instant
3x Gifts Ungiven
3x Spell Snare
1x Dismember
2x Path to Exile
1x Doom Blade
3x Esper Charm
3x Forbidden Alchemy
3x Remand
2x Damnation
3x Unburial Rites
Planeswalker
2x Liliana of the Veil
Land
1x Hallowed Fountain
3x Darkslick Shores
2x Glacial Fortress
2x Drowned Catacomb
4x Marsh Flats
1x Godless Shrine
1x Watery Grave
2x Island
2x Seachrome Crest
2x Isolated Chapel
1x Plains
2x Swamp
1x Nephalia Drownyard
What do you think??
I really need recomendations and opinions! Thanks!!
@MightyFlameboy: Liliana I honestly wouldn't want to drop below 3 copies. She dominates games once she comes down after a little set-up (like after a sweeper or with counter backup). Lily is also a fine discard outlet for those reanimation targets.
Thirst For Knowledge is very good, but I feel like Alchemy's flashback abilities make it better, as the extra cards make a difference in the control matchup. Digging for an answer 1 more card is helpful, too. I'm still hoping for an unbanning of Chrome Mox, though. Such a sick card.
Siding Threads of Disloyalty also seems very sick. O-Ring will also help this deck, as Planeswalkers are difficult to deal with outside of an Angel of Despair, as I found out in a recent Bant matchup.
There are just too many goodies in UWB and Gifts allows us to play as many of those goodies as possible, get away with playing singletons, yet not sacrificing consistency. Not to mention that the Sun Titan/Snapcaster Mage synergies make them work double duty. I would have loved to play Gideon Jura, Elspeth, Knight-Errant, heck even Venser, the Sojourner but they fall outside of the boundaries of Titan/SCM engines...
I've been out of the loop for quite sometime so I may not understand the potential of Liliana. According to some of my friends' experiences using her in T2, her + ability is situational since it's not always we have a fatty to dump in the GY, so they couldn't do anything with her for a few turns. But that's for T2. How are you using her in Modern?
How often is Forbidden Alchemy's flashback relevant? 7 mana is hefty and shouldn't be relevant in the aggro/combo matchups. However, I do agree that digging 1 extra card might be crucial. With our best card advantage engines banned (Ancestral Visions, Jace, the Mind Sculptor), digging for answers is more important, since this deck slowly build incremental advantages (Sun Titan/Snapcaster Mage) instead of raw card advantage. I'd probably follow your advice and run more Liliana and see if that fixes my problem of drawing into my reanimation targets.
With Sun Titan in play, Kitchen Finks is pretty sick too. Although some are saying that Timely Reinforcements, at the moment is a better choice, since it's Path to Exile proof as well as synergizing with Snapcaster Mage. I think I might play both. Makes for Gifts shenanigans and fueling both Titan/SCM engines. Yeah, we definintely need more PW hate. Despise, maybe?
3x Gifts?? 2x Phantasmal Image??? Any Wurmcoil here??..
Rune Snag or Remand???.
What are the difference of running Damnation instead of Day of Judgment??? (I think that mana base is enough solid to cast both (damn/doj) in turn 4).
If you're going to play day of judgment, just play Wrath of God.
In any case, timely reinforcements is very strong in here, but I would take consideration into playing a split between Rites & Makeshift Mannequin.
Mannequin has a few drawbacks, but being able to instant speed reanimate creatures from the graveyard is quite helpful, and if you're playing something like wurmcoil engine, it negates it's drawback anyway since the wurm will just split in two after it gets targeted (which conveniently saves it from path to exile).
I played a Solar Flare deck in one of our initial Cockatrice tournaments (prior to bannings mind you) and was 3-0 with it before everyone decided to drop. That of course was before more tools became available to it, so it definitely has potential.
I think you missed my point that this is basically Esper Teachings + Liliana and Sun Titan.
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Still, I think it's worth a consideration as a 1-of for the late game, where both players are likely to have run out of gas and the first player to draw something relevant gains a distinct advantage, and Court Hussar provides superior digging (tending toward card selection), in parallel to Jace Beleren (tending toward card advantage).
This deck will have the same problems as with all tricolor decks. Despite playing the best cards in the format, it may not generate a smooth victory. Why? Because of its horrendous manabase and varying color commitments. Darkblade and Solar Flare in recent T2 aren't so hot compared to their consistent and streamlined UW/UB cousins.
I'd steer clear of SoM duals because this deck (at least my version) cannot afford to play a tapped land until about turn 6-7 (turn 1 would be the only remaining opportunity since the deck doesn't run too many 1cc spells), when I should have stabilized the board after sweeping the opponent's creatures, casting Gifts, and reanimating finishers. I'd say filterlands are almost a must. Say, I want to cast Vendilion Clique but only have BW mana. A single Mystic Gate turns the game around, as opposed to other lands which produces a single U mana require 2 whole turns.
I think one could get a lot of good ideas from there instead of basing the deck just on the current Standard one.
And how do you deal with graveyard hate cards? (NihilSpellbomb/Tormod's Crypt)
The thing with Sun Titan and Court Hussar is that, since Hussar isn't cast, it keeps dying as soon as it hits the battlefield. I'd rather revive Tiago; at least he sticks around.
Against graveyard hate, there is such a thing as hardcasting some of your fatties.
Solar flare and solar pox were from 2 different standard seasons, with flare coming first and pox not coming until late into the RAV + CSP + TSP standard while solar flare was Kami + RAV and a bit of TSP before pox picked up.
actually the fact that hussar dies is pretty neat. It is an infinite target if you need it.
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Angel of Despair is also still good. I would love to see Debtor's Knell make a comeback.
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Yep true i'm playing against a version with 2 gifts and everytime it's the GG when you're doing Gift. The fact that you can search for cards that you could cast from your grave with Snapcaster, or searching for a flashback spell.
You should consider putting gift ungiven in the deck.