Fwiw, another card people are overlooking is Torrent of Souls. Obviously if you're playing Esper, it's not going to be great, but if you're going with any form of Red Splash, Torrent of souls + Grave Titan = swing for 16, and get an additional 2 zombies on the board, which will typically end a game upon resolution.
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Fwiw, another card people are overlooking is Torrent of Souls. Obviously if you're playing Esper, it's not going to be great, but if you're going with any form of Red Splash, Torrent of souls + Grave Titan = swing for 16, and get an additional 2 zombies on the board, which will typically end a game upon resolution.
Wow, that is a very interesting interaction. However, it does make the deck more combo-heavy, and has to be taken in a different direction. I do not support Esper builds splashing another color because of its already weak manabase, but Grixis or RBW might be worth considering.
So, anyone have ideas on how we can add Gifts in here?
@Anavolver: Is it straight-up burn, or RDW? Well, either way, something to gain massive amounts of life will set you straight against them (Kitchen Finks, Timely Reinforcements). Lifegain is also helpful with Zoo. Kikitwin is already a pretty good matchup MD, just add some more counters and removal. Affinity you will want artifact destruction. That's about all I have for you lol; Haven't had much time for testing (coming up to finals)...
Oh, and against Moon: Pack Disenchant-effects and be sure to have a basic Plains and a means to fetch it quickly. Also, countering works. Disenchanty effects also help against Twin and Affinity as well.
So, anyone have ideas on how we can add Gifts in here?
@Anavolver: Is it straight-up burn, or RDW? Well, either way, something to gain massive amounts of life will set you straight against them (Kitchen Finks, Timely Reinforcements). Lifegain is also helpful with Zoo. Kikitwin is already a pretty good matchup MD, just add some more counters and removal. Affinity you will want artifact destruction. That's about all I have for you lol; Haven't had much time for testing (coming up to finals)...
Oh, and against Moon: Pack Disenchant-effects and be sure to have a basic Plains and a means to fetch it quickly. Also, countering works. Disenchanty effects also help against Twin and Affinity as well.
As for Blood Moon, I searched the entire Gatherer for a versatile answer but I wasn't pleased with any. I didn't consider Esper Charm because it cannot be reliably cast under a Blood Moon. Deterrence is better than frantically searching for answers.
My original decklist was incredibly stacked, but with power comes a price - high color commitments. I had too much trouble with my mana so I cut those cards, seemingly weakening the deck but also increasing its consistency. This has a two-fold effect as it allows the land base to accomodate more basics, further increasing its resiliency against Blood Moon.
Instead of filling the deck with narrow answers such as Disenchant, opt for low color commitment, versatile cards. Repeal comes to mind. Repeal the Blood Moon before you go 'big' for that precious 1 turn immunity against Blood Moon, say, reanimating Iona, Shield of Emeria naming red? One turn is all this deck needs to turn things around.
I find the "new INNistrad tech" kind of lackluster. Not all of it bad, just feel like some older sets have better things to offer. I was a solar flare pilot circa Ravnica. M10 Duals suck... New Mirrodin duals are, Meh... just run fetches/basics/shocks
Gifts Ungiven is nice, but it seems like it's too combo-y for a hardcore control build.
Gifts package: Unburial Rites, Discard outlet, Fattie, and Noxious Revival/fattie
Possible package depending on matchup: Gifts for: Unburial Rites, Blazing Archon, Prowler (or Angel if you have Research in hand/Prowle|bazaar online), and Revival/magus
Iona, is nice, but meh... I would Sideboard her, as you don't really know what the best color to screw your opponent would be.
Also, instead of focusing on GY hate game 2, bring in Emrakul + Goryo's Vengenace.
I find the "new INNistrad tech" kind of lackluster. Not all of it bad, just feel like some older sets have better things to offer. I was a solar flare pilot circa Ravnica. M10 Duals suck... New Mirrodin duals are, Meh... just run fetches/basics/shocks
Gifts Ungiven is nice, but it seems like it's too combo-y for a hardcore control build.
Gifts package: Unburial Rites, Discard outlet, Fattie, and Noxious Revival/fattie
Possible package depending on matchup: Gifts for: Unburial Rites, Blazing Archon, Prowler (or Angel if you have Research in hand/Prowle|bazaar online), and Revival/magus
Iona, is nice, but meh... I would Sideboard her, as you don't really know what the best color to screw your opponent would be.
Also, instead of focusing on GY hate game 2, bring in Emrakul + Goryo's Vengenace.
FWIW, you can Gifts for simply Iona & Unburial Rites. You don't need to grab prowler or any other pieces, since you can simply grab two cards, and force both of them to the graveyard.
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FWIW, you can Gifts for simply Iona & Unburial Rites. You don't need to grab prowler or any other pieces, since you can simply grab two cards, and force both of them to the graveyard.
Well, I was just suggesting other cards. Depends on situation. Cause Gifts forces 4 cards with different names. It's win/win If Unburial goes to hand or yard... so Optimal play is: 3 different fatties and 1 Unburial, in most situations.
Nop, best choice is Unburial+Fatty (deppends the situation) and cast Unburial for 4cmc(3W1colorless) on turn 5!.
Gifts Ungiven
Instant, 3U (4)
Search your library for four cards with different names and reveal them. Target opponent chooses two of those cards. Put the chosen cards into your graveyard and the rest into your hand. Then shuffle your library.
Illus. D. Alexander Gregory
Gatherer Card Rulings?, Legality?
12/1/2004: You can choose less than four cards if you want, but your opponent will still put two of those cards into your graveyard.
Well, I was just suggesting other cards. Depends on situation. Cause Gifts forces 4 cards with different names. It's win/win If Unburial goes to hand or yard... so Optimal play is: 3 different fatties and 1 Unburial, in most situations.
You completely missed what I was saying. Gifts doesn't require you to grab 4 cards. You CAN grab 4 cards, but you can also grab two cards, in which an opponent is forced to put the only two cards you grabbed into the graveyard. Look up the ruling if you're curious :cool2:.
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Because gifts allows you to look into a private zone(your library) an unwritten rule is assumed. Potentially in a game you won't be able to pull out 4 cards with different names, and in that instance the spell can't fizzle because it doesn't target said cards and you can't share private information to prove that you grabbed as many spells as you could.
Gotta love complicated magic cards. Its the only reason I still play this game anymore.
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Nop, best choice is Unburial+Fatty (deppends the situation) and cast Unburial for 4cmc(3W1colorless) on turn 5!.
Gifts Ungiven
Instant, 3U (4)
Search your library for four cards with different names and reveal them. Target opponent chooses two of those cards. Put the chosen cards into your graveyard and the rest into your hand. Then shuffle your library.
Illus. D. Alexander Gregory
Gatherer Card Rulings?, Legality?
12/1/2004: You can choose less than four cards if you want, but your opponent will still put two of those cards into your graveyard.
Well... ok lol... Yeah, then this card is pretty solid choice, go with 3-4 gifts. I never really used gifts, so guess I hadn't realized that... I still don't get it, cause you think it would say: up to four cards. Oh well, I won't argue if that's the rulings.
Because gifts allows you to look into a private zone(your library) an unwritten rule is assumed. Potentially in a game you won't be able to pull out 4 cards with different names, and in that instance the spell can't fizzle because it doesn't target said cards and you can't share private information to prove that you grabbed as many spells as you could.
Gotta love complicated magic cards. Its the only reason I still play this game anymore.
The reason of why u can pick less than 4 cards is here:
Ah, ok. Yeah... You can't prove to your opponent or not that what you got was legal, because that in itself breaks a fundamental rule. Gotcha. I love Gifts now. Guess I'm also used to gifts in Vintage. Vintage Gifts says: "I'll go look for 4 cards to cast on you this turn" lol.
Here's a list I just threw together, with a theoretical sideboard (In theory, Dispel gets sided in against Storm and any sort of creatureless control, Trickblind is in against Storm and Twin, extra Wrath effects against Zoo, Affinity, and the like, and some silver bullets against the metagame.) and I'd like to start testing online before I really invest in the deck. From what I've seen of meta, it seems like speed is the primary issue. That's why I'm going for a more combo oriented build here.
I looked for the hardest threats to deal with, and I'm really only unhappy with the Avatar of Woe in the main. I was thinking about Sun Titan in its place, to recur Lilianas and Fetches.
Sunscour seems pretty bad as does Betrayal of Flesh. Avatar of Woe seems subpar and you may want to use Empyrial Archangel instead of Inkwell Leviathan.
Your SB could be played around a bit with to make it more resistant to Zoo/Combo with Spell Pierce/Timely Reinforcements.
Here's a list I just threw together, with a theoretical sideboard (In theory, Dispel gets sided in against Storm and any sort of creatureless control, Trickblind is in against Storm and Twin, extra Wrath effects against Zoo, Affinity, and the like, and some silver bullets against the metagame.) and I'd like to start testing online before I really invest in the deck. From what I've seen of meta, it seems like speed is the primary issue. That's why I'm going for a more combo oriented build here.
I looked for the hardest threats to deal with, and I'm really only unhappy with the Avatar of Woe in the main. I was thinking about Sun Titan in its place, to recur Lilianas and Fetches.
Any thoughts?
Liliana seems absolutely horrid in a Modern meta where everyone can kill it immediately.
Liliana seems absolutely horrid in a Modern meta where everyone can kill it immediately.
Liliana has surprisingly done rather well against Zoo (Jund, Countercats, and Domain variants specifically) and Storm (Past In Flames is a lot slower than the U/R Swathstorm decks of Philly) in the gauntlet I'm running it through. Against Zoo it's an edict that can potentially get two cards out of an opponent, and against Storm it's a repeatable discard effect that can set up your combo. The various rock decks aren't fast enough to keep up, and usually can't effectively deal with a resolved Iona or Sphinx.
It has been admittedly less than stellar against Affinity, because of Galvanic Blast and Shrapnel Blast. If there is a deck that simply doesn't really care about card disadvantage, it's Affinity. I have yet to try it against Twin, but it seems like it would play out similarly to Storm.
@EpicBroccoli: Betrayal of Flesh is basically a 5th Unburial Rites. It has some rather strange synergies with Ancestor's Chosen, but is otherwise a bit of a filler card. Are there any better options? Now that I think of it, what about Mimic Vat?
Sunscour has worked for me against Zoo and Affinity, but are there any other good 4cmc (or have better alternate casting costs) Wraths so I can at least get 3 Wraths with a Gifts? Hallowed Burial is... less than stellar. It always seems to come down a turn too late and this deck wants its creatures in the graveyard. Day is laughable.
Empyrial Archangel seems like more of a sideboard card, actually. If I would run it at all, I'd have to rework my manabase a bit. Inkwell Leviathan gets a lot of accidental wins off of Islandwalk, especially given how reliant the meta is on shaky Shockland mana bases.
Avatar of Woe is very mediocre. I've been toying around with Sun Titan, but are there any better options for a dedicated anti-bomb creature? Phyrexian Ingester is too lackluster, and Duplicant really wants to be run with Master Transmuter.
And thank you for the advice Go.dec and Epic Broccoli! I'll try to get a revised list once I run this deck through more of the gauntlet.
Liliana seems absolutely horrid in a Modern meta where everyone can kill it immediately.
So, it comes down, forces an opponent to sac a creature, then they have to waste a burn spell on it, or in the instance that they have 2 creatures on the board, it's a 3 mana removal spell + free fog. That's 2 for 1'ing your opponent. How exactly is that Horrid?
Goyf must be terrible too since everyone can kill it immediately with a removal spell..:rolleyes:
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So, it comes down, forces an opponent to sac a creature, then they have to waste a burn spell on it, or in the instance that they have 2 creatures on the board, it's a 3 mana removal spell + free fog. That's 2 for 1'ing your opponent. How exactly is that Horrid?
Goyf must be terrible too since everyone can kill it immediately with a removal spell..:rolleyes:
Yes, because that's what you want, three mana slow edicts against Zoo. What if they just ignore your terrible edict effect and continue to smash your face in. You discard and they discard...sounds great against Zoo and Twin. But sure, Lili seems excellent against aggro in Modern just like it's amazing against aggro in standard right? That's definitely I want to run into if I'm running any type of Zoo deck, bad control decks with even worse plays.
Yes, because that's what you want, three mana slow edicts against Zoo. What if they just ignore your terrible edict effect and continue to smash your face in. You discard and they discard...sounds great against Zoo and Twin. But sure, Lili seems excellent against aggro in Modern just like it's amazing against aggro in standard right? That's definitely I want to run into if I'm running any type of Zoo deck, bad control decks with even worse plays.
Then you discard an Elesh Norn to Lili, and reanimate it. Or a Sphinx of Steel Wind, if you prefer. Or an Ancestor's Chosen, and gain like 10 life while killing their Nacatl. Then you edict them again next turn, if they have anything relevant left. Yeah, Lili is a bit slower (if you play her poorly) but she does a lot of things for the deck. What you say is true, assuming I do nothing but play Liliana on turn 3, but that's a pretty rare situation to be fair. Generally, I like her on turn 4, where you can play her with Path back up- that's a major reason I'm only running 3. Is there another Edict card that can enable this sort of midrange reanimation strategy? If so, please tell me. I mean, you could use Smallpox I suppose, if you wanted to sacrifice Flagstones of Trokair. Of course, for faster targeted removal, Path is pretty much the best spell. Which I'm running four of, with 3 Snapcasters.
I'll give Lili a shot, see what happens, and make adjustments. If she works, she works. If she doesn't I'll start looking for something to replace her- Smallpox might be an option there.
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Wow, that is a very interesting interaction. However, it does make the deck more combo-heavy, and has to be taken in a different direction. I do not support Esper builds splashing another color because of its already weak manabase, but Grixis or RBW might be worth considering.
The local Meta-Game in my town is:
-Burn
-Affinity
-KikiTwin
-A few Zoo..
And..
How do you deal with Blood Moon?.... GRRR..
Thanks guys!!!
@Anavolver: Is it straight-up burn, or RDW? Well, either way, something to gain massive amounts of life will set you straight against them (Kitchen Finks, Timely Reinforcements). Lifegain is also helpful with Zoo. Kikitwin is already a pretty good matchup MD, just add some more counters and removal. Affinity you will want artifact destruction. That's about all I have for you lol; Haven't had much time for testing (coming up to finals)...
Oh, and against Moon: Pack Disenchant-effects and be sure to have a basic Plains and a means to fetch it quickly. Also, countering works. Disenchanty effects also help against Twin and Affinity as well.
What I did was to cut counterspells to make room for Gifts Ungiven, vary removals (Path to Exile, Doom Blade, Go for the Throat, Wrath of God, Day of Judgment), add 2-3 silver bullets (Jace Beleren, Oblivion Ring and somemore in the SB Kitchen Finks, Threads of Disloyalty) i.e. permanents that synergizes with Sun Titan) and I think Gifts Ungiven is good to go.
As for Blood Moon, I searched the entire Gatherer for a versatile answer but I wasn't pleased with any. I didn't consider Esper Charm because it cannot be reliably cast under a Blood Moon. Deterrence is better than frantically searching for answers.
My original decklist was incredibly stacked, but with power comes a price - high color commitments. I had too much trouble with my mana so I cut those cards, seemingly weakening the deck but also increasing its consistency. This has a two-fold effect as it allows the land base to accomodate more basics, further increasing its resiliency against Blood Moon.
Instead of filling the deck with narrow answers such as Disenchant, opt for low color commitment, versatile cards. Repeal comes to mind. Repeal the Blood Moon before you go 'big' for that precious 1 turn immunity against Blood Moon, say, reanimating Iona, Shield of Emeria naming red? One turn is all this deck needs to turn things around.
Trickbind against Crypt/Nihil Spellbomb works very well
Any news impressions??.
I find the "new INNistrad tech" kind of lackluster. Not all of it bad, just feel like some older sets have better things to offer. I was a solar flare pilot circa Ravnica. M10 Duals suck... New Mirrodin duals are, Meh... just run fetches/basics/shocks
Gifts Ungiven is nice, but it seems like it's too combo-y for a hardcore control build.
Gifts package: Unburial Rites, Discard outlet, Fattie, and Noxious Revival/fattie
Possible package depending on matchup:
Gifts for: Unburial Rites, Blazing Archon, Prowler (or Angel if you have Research in hand/Prowle|bazaar online), and Revival/magus
Iona, is nice, but meh... I would Sideboard her, as you don't really know what the best color to screw your opponent would be.
Also, instead of focusing on GY hate game 2, bring in Emrakul + Goryo's Vengenace.
Here is my attempt:
1 Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
1 Blazing Archon
1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
2 Angel of Despair
1 Inkwell Leviathan
2 Magus of the Bazaar
2 Oona's Prowler
Artifacts
4 Orzhov Signet
Sorcery
4 Compulsive Research
4 Thoughtseize
2 Wrath of God
3 Unburial Rites
Instant
2 Path to Exile
1 Go For the Throat
4 Rune Snag
2 Gifts Ungiven
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Godless Shrine
2 Watery Grave
1 Hallowed Fountain
3 Misty Rainforest
4 Marsh Flats
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Academy Ruins
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Miren, the Moaning Well
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
2 Plains
2 Swamp
2 Island
3 Emrakul, The Aeons Torn
3 Goryo's Vengeance
4 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Persecute
1 Terastodon
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
EDIT: Academy Ruins + Engineered explosives can work too / Crucible of Worlds for some Gifts Tech
Thank you mchief111, great sig
Lvl 37 Planeswalker
Current:
Legacy:
:symu::symb::symr::symw::symg: TES | Spiral Tide | MUD | :symu::symb::symg: Lands | Burn | :symr::symbg: Goblins | Elf Combo
Vintage:
:symb::symu: Titan Dredge | :symb::symu::symw: Bomberman
Modern:
:symu::symr: Kiki-Twin | :symr::symg: Tron
Standard:
Wip
EDH:
:symb::symu::symw: Zur
FWIW, you can Gifts for simply Iona & Unburial Rites. You don't need to grab prowler or any other pieces, since you can simply grab two cards, and force both of them to the graveyard.
Well, I was just suggesting other cards. Depends on situation. Cause Gifts forces 4 cards with different names. It's win/win If Unburial goes to hand or yard... so Optimal play is: 3 different fatties and 1 Unburial, in most situations.
Thank you mchief111, great sig
Lvl 37 Planeswalker
Current:
Legacy:
:symu::symb::symr::symw::symg: TES | Spiral Tide | MUD | :symu::symb::symg: Lands | Burn | :symr::symbg: Goblins | Elf Combo
Vintage:
:symb::symu: Titan Dredge | :symb::symu::symw: Bomberman
Modern:
:symu::symr: Kiki-Twin | :symr::symg: Tron
Standard:
Wip
EDH:
:symb::symu::symw: Zur
Gifts Ungiven
Instant, 3U (4)
Search your library for four cards with different names and reveal them. Target opponent chooses two of those cards. Put the chosen cards into your graveyard and the rest into your hand. Then shuffle your library.
Illus. D. Alexander Gregory
Gatherer Card Rulings?, Legality?
12/1/2004: You can choose less than four cards if you want, but your opponent will still put two of those cards into your graveyard.
You completely missed what I was saying. Gifts doesn't require you to grab 4 cards. You CAN grab 4 cards, but you can also grab two cards, in which an opponent is forced to put the only two cards you grabbed into the graveyard. Look up the ruling if you're curious :cool2:.
Gotta love complicated magic cards. Its the only reason I still play this game anymore.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
Well... ok lol... Yeah, then this card is pretty solid choice, go with 3-4 gifts. I never really used gifts, so guess I hadn't realized that... I still don't get it, cause you think it would say: up to four cards. Oh well, I won't argue if that's the rulings.
Thank you mchief111, great sig
Lvl 37 Planeswalker
Current:
Legacy:
:symu::symb::symr::symw::symg: TES | Spiral Tide | MUD | :symu::symb::symg: Lands | Burn | :symr::symbg: Goblins | Elf Combo
Vintage:
:symb::symu: Titan Dredge | :symb::symu::symw: Bomberman
Modern:
:symu::symr: Kiki-Twin | :symr::symg: Tron
Standard:
Wip
EDH:
:symb::symu::symw: Zur
Ah, ok. Yeah... You can't prove to your opponent or not that what you got was legal, because that in itself breaks a fundamental rule. Gotcha. I love Gifts now. Guess I'm also used to gifts in Vintage. Vintage Gifts says: "I'll go look for 4 cards to cast on you this turn" lol.
Thank you mchief111, great sig
Lvl 37 Planeswalker
Current:
Legacy:
:symu::symb::symr::symw::symg: TES | Spiral Tide | MUD | :symu::symb::symg: Lands | Burn | :symr::symbg: Goblins | Elf Combo
Vintage:
:symb::symu: Titan Dredge | :symb::symu::symw: Bomberman
Modern:
:symu::symr: Kiki-Twin | :symr::symg: Tron
Standard:
Wip
EDH:
:symb::symu::symw: Zur
1 Sphinx of Steel Wind
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Avatar of Woe
1 Angel of Despair
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Forbidden Alchemy
3 Gifts Ungiven
4 Path to Exile
4 Unburial Rites
1 Betrayal of Flesh
3 Liliana of the Veil
3 Spell Snare
3 Remand
1 Sunscour
1 Wrath of God
1 Damnation
3 Hallowed Fountain
3 Watery Grave
2 Godless Shrine
2 Tectonic Edge
2 Nephalia Drownyard
2 Plains
2 Swamp
2 Island
1 Arcane Sactum
4 Dispel
3 Trickblind
1 Wrath of God
1 Sunscour
1 Ancestor's Chosen
1 Ascendant Evincar
1 Chancellor of the Dross
1 Crovax, Ascendant Hero
1 Jin Gitaxias, Core Augur
1 Phyrexian Ingester
Here's a list I just threw together, with a theoretical sideboard (In theory, Dispel gets sided in against Storm and any sort of creatureless control, Trickblind is in against Storm and Twin, extra Wrath effects against Zoo, Affinity, and the like, and some silver bullets against the metagame.) and I'd like to start testing online before I really invest in the deck. From what I've seen of meta, it seems like speed is the primary issue. That's why I'm going for a more combo oriented build here.
I looked for the hardest threats to deal with, and I'm really only unhappy with the Avatar of Woe in the main. I was thinking about Sun Titan in its place, to recur Lilianas and Fetches.
Any thoughts?
Your SB could be played around a bit with to make it more resistant to Zoo/Combo with Spell Pierce/Timely Reinforcements.
Liliana seems absolutely horrid in a Modern meta where everyone can kill it immediately.
Liliana has surprisingly done rather well against Zoo (Jund, Countercats, and Domain variants specifically) and Storm (Past In Flames is a lot slower than the U/R Swathstorm decks of Philly) in the gauntlet I'm running it through. Against Zoo it's an edict that can potentially get two cards out of an opponent, and against Storm it's a repeatable discard effect that can set up your combo. The various rock decks aren't fast enough to keep up, and usually can't effectively deal with a resolved Iona or Sphinx.
It has been admittedly less than stellar against Affinity, because of Galvanic Blast and Shrapnel Blast. If there is a deck that simply doesn't really care about card disadvantage, it's Affinity. I have yet to try it against Twin, but it seems like it would play out similarly to Storm.
@EpicBroccoli: Betrayal of Flesh is basically a 5th Unburial Rites. It has some rather strange synergies with Ancestor's Chosen, but is otherwise a bit of a filler card. Are there any better options? Now that I think of it, what about Mimic Vat?
Sunscour has worked for me against Zoo and Affinity, but are there any other good 4cmc (or have better alternate casting costs) Wraths so I can at least get 3 Wraths with a Gifts? Hallowed Burial is... less than stellar. It always seems to come down a turn too late and this deck wants its creatures in the graveyard. Day is laughable.
Empyrial Archangel seems like more of a sideboard card, actually. If I would run it at all, I'd have to rework my manabase a bit. Inkwell Leviathan gets a lot of accidental wins off of Islandwalk, especially given how reliant the meta is on shaky Shockland mana bases.
Avatar of Woe is very mediocre. I've been toying around with Sun Titan, but are there any better options for a dedicated anti-bomb creature? Phyrexian Ingester is too lackluster, and Duplicant really wants to be run with Master Transmuter.
And thank you for the advice Go.dec and Epic Broccoli! I'll try to get a revised list once I run this deck through more of the gauntlet.
Well, there are other reanimation spells, such as Makeshift Mannequin. Also, Liliana would love some protection, perhaps in the form of Gideon Jura?
So, it comes down, forces an opponent to sac a creature, then they have to waste a burn spell on it, or in the instance that they have 2 creatures on the board, it's a 3 mana removal spell + free fog. That's 2 for 1'ing your opponent. How exactly is that Horrid?
Goyf must be terrible too since everyone can kill it immediately with a removal spell..:rolleyes:
Yes, because that's what you want, three mana slow edicts against Zoo. What if they just ignore your terrible edict effect and continue to smash your face in. You discard and they discard...sounds great against Zoo and Twin. But sure, Lili seems excellent against aggro in Modern just like it's amazing against aggro in standard right? That's definitely I want to run into if I'm running any type of Zoo deck, bad control decks with even worse plays.
Then you discard an Elesh Norn to Lili, and reanimate it. Or a Sphinx of Steel Wind, if you prefer. Or an Ancestor's Chosen, and gain like 10 life while killing their Nacatl. Then you edict them again next turn, if they have anything relevant left. Yeah, Lili is a bit slower (if you play her poorly) but she does a lot of things for the deck. What you say is true, assuming I do nothing but play Liliana on turn 3, but that's a pretty rare situation to be fair. Generally, I like her on turn 4, where you can play her with Path back up- that's a major reason I'm only running 3. Is there another Edict card that can enable this sort of midrange reanimation strategy? If so, please tell me. I mean, you could use Smallpox I suppose, if you wanted to sacrifice Flagstones of Trokair. Of course, for faster targeted removal, Path is pretty much the best spell. Which I'm running four of, with 3 Snapcasters.
I'll give Lili a shot, see what happens, and make adjustments. If she works, she works. If she doesn't I'll start looking for something to replace her- Smallpox might be an option there.