Thanks for the input, Slipknot. I have a feeling once a real metagame starts developing and the decks in the tier 1 decks start becoming more defined I'm going to be forced to splash white to stay competitive. In the mean time though, I'm going to be stubborn. It's my nature.
after some testing today I'm going to take out the ancestral visions. I get cards on 4th turn at best, and that is too slow. I will try +2 something and +2 think twice, as 4 think twice is probably too many.
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In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
In case I didn't tell you, I don't care about your opinion I just want your facts. And not the facts that make you seem smart. I want the ones that are actual facts.
this deck doesn't run enough artfacts. as a gneral rule of thumb I like 2x the artifacts as I have thirst for knowledge.
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In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
this deck doesn't run enough artfacts. as a gneral rule of thumb I like 2x the artifacts as I have thirst for knowledge.
Hmm. Wouldn't it be easy to support some artifacts with Academy Ruins and such.
My only issue is that Gifts Ungiven is just so much better than Teachings. Can they exist in the same deck?
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In case I didn't tell you, I don't care about your opinion I just want your facts. And not the facts that make you seem smart. I want the ones that are actual facts.
Hmm. Wouldn't it be easy to support some artifacts with Academy Ruins and such.
My only issue is that Gifts Ungiven is just so much better than Teachings. Can they exist in the same deck?
This was literally just discussed on the previous page.
@ slipknot: Think Twice has been working out wonderfully for me. With two copies, I'm always happy to draw it. Cantrips are also fantastic, I had a really hard time bringing myself to cut my two repeals, and I may yet end up putting them back in. Or more Remands... I do love Remand.
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"I am confident that if anyone actually
penetrates our facades, even the most
perceptive would still be fundamentally
unprepared for the truth of House Dimir."
This was literally just discussed on the previous page.
@ slipknot: Think Twice has been working out wonderfully for me. With two copies, I'm always happy to draw it. Cantrips are also fantastic, I had a really hard time bringing myself to cut my two repeals, and I may yet end up putting them back in. Or more Remands... I do love Remand.
I'm up to 4 pte now, and I still adding stuff. List on the OP have been edited with my new list....i think.
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In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
So, I know the forum has pretty much given up on Teachings, but I haven't. Though I have given up on trying to stay UB (I would still keep the UB list in the OP personally, but that's not really my call.) Just came to suggest testing Wall of Omens if we aren't already. A self-replacing speed bump may be what this deck needs to keep up. Or it may be too little too late, but I'd say it's worth a test.
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"I am confident that if anyone actually
penetrates our facades, even the most
perceptive would still be fundamentally
unprepared for the truth of House Dimir."
So, I know the forum has pretty much given up on Teachings, but I haven't. Though I have given up on trying to stay UB (I would still keep the UB list in the OP personally, but that's not really my call.) Just came to suggest testing Wall of Omens if we aren't already. A self-replacing speed bump may be what this deck needs to keep up. Or it may be too little too late, but I'd say it's worth a test.
plumeveil is just better as it can eat things, or at least eat a path and get us closer to 4 mana. Both are kinda dead against every non aggro deck. Plumeveil is pretty decent against faeries though.
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In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
Plumeveil doesn't replace itself though. That alone makes Wall of Omens never dead. In matchups where you don't need/want a blocker, you just "cycle" it, then board it out for games 2 and 3.
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"I am confident that if anyone actually
penetrates our facades, even the most
perceptive would still be fundamentally
unprepared for the truth of House Dimir."
Plumeveil doesn't replace itself though. That alone makes Wall of Omens never dead. In matchups where you don't need/want a blocker, you just "cycle" it, then board it out for games 2 and 3.
But Plumeveil can be searched up with Teachings.
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On Mono Black in Commander:
Quote from BlackJack68 »
But whomever your commander is, Cabal Coffers is really in charge.
So can Wall of Omens with Teferi on the field. And anyway, if I was searching my deck with Teachings, I would rather get an actual answer instead of a blocker.
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"I am confident that if anyone actually
penetrates our facades, even the most
perceptive would still be fundamentally
unprepared for the truth of House Dimir."
Thought Scour is terrible in BV. How many flashback spells are being run? Say roughly 15. This gives you a roughly 38% chance of milling one flashback spell. And even if you do, you paid one mana to cantrip and dump an overcosted spell. Alchemy, Geistflame, Devil's play, etc. all cost much more to flash back than your average card, so you're not getting full value out of it.
You'd much rather play Ponder. At least that generates a tangible advantage.
Hey everyone, I'm just getting in to Modern Magic. I did a little research and Modern Teachings is what I decided to go with. I threw together a list last night and through some testing today I came up with this list. It's been fairing pretty well, I've been having a really rough time with that 12 Post.dec though, so I dedicated slots for Spreading Seas in the SB as the main 60 can not support 4 Tectonic Edge. Anyway, this is sort my rough draft, feel free to tell me what you think and if you need any explanations for card choices or anything, thanks!
First of all, run 3 Teachings and 4 Esper Charm. They really are the core of the deck, and if you're not running those 7 cards, you're not running an optimal list. I would recommend taking out the Thoughtseizes for them, as it's a sorcery so it can't be tutored up if you need it, and two more esper charms will give you instant speed 2 for 1 discard, which is definitely better for this deck.
With the remaining card, I would probably throw in either a second Teferi, or a beat stick with Shroud or Hexproof, since your opponent's removal is just going to rot in their hand until you play a creature, and that creature will die fast.
Personally, I don't like Jace in this deck because he forces you to pay 4 mana on your own turn, which is something you really want to avoid here, but he is one of the most powerful blue cards ever printed, so I can't say you're making a bad choice by including him.
Your counter package looks beautiful (mine is the same, but -1 Remand +1 Spell Snare) and your removal is nice. I don't like more than one Path to Exile because giving my opponent free lands is the LAST thing I want to do in this deck, but that's a personal preference of mine.
Other than that, really nice start. How is Spreading Seas working for you? Seems kind of janky to me, but I haven't playtested it. I've been using Ghost Quarter, and it's... ok, but if Spreading Seas works well for you I may have to give it a try.
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"I am confident that if anyone actually
penetrates our facades, even the most
perceptive would still be fundamentally
unprepared for the truth of House Dimir."
First of all, run 3 Teachings and 4 Esper Charm. They really are the core of the deck, and if you're not running those 7 cards, you're not running an optimal list. I would recommend taking out the Thoughtseizes for them, as it's a sorcery so it can't be tutored up if you need it, and two more esper charms will give you instant speed 2 for 1 discard, which is definitely better for this deck.
With the remaining card, I would probably throw in either a second Teferi, or a beat stick with Shroud or Hexproof, since your opponent's removal is just going to rot in their hand until you play a creature, and that creature will die fast.
Personally, I don't like Jace in this deck because he forces you to pay 4 mana on your own turn, which is something you really want to avoid here, but he is one of the most powerful blue cards ever printed, so I can't say you're making a bad choice by including him.
Your counter package looks beautiful (mine is the same, but -1 Remand +1 Spell Snare) and your removal is nice. I don't like more than one Path to Exile because giving my opponent free lands is the LAST thing I want to do in this deck, but that's a personal preference of mine.
Other than that, really nice start. How is Spreading Seas working for you? Seems kind of janky to me, but I haven't playtested it. I've been using Ghost Quarter, and it's... ok, but if Spreading Seas works well for you I may have to give it a try.
I took note of your 4 charm / 3 mystical teachings and have been a lot happier since then, thanks for the tip. Since the recent bannings I took an opportunity to restructure the deck a bit. This is what I have now:
Card Choices - I'll speak about the not so obvious ones. Devil's Advocate made a good point about a creature with Shroud or Hexproof. I looked through Gatherer and the only thing that stood out to me was Sphinx of Jwar Isle... and that just seems big fat and dumb. I decided to go with three Vendilion Clique for a couple reasons. Vendilion Clique doesn't need a whole lot of reasoning as to why it's such a great creature but I think it really shines in this deck. Clique is amazing in a control mirror, is great at surprise chump blocking and is amazing at eating removal either by tucking it or getting eaten by it. The 3/1 body makes it relevant. Clique is usually game plan number 1 as you'll have the best chance of drawing it.
I upped Spell Snare from two to three and have really noticed the difference. I love this card.
Right now I have 3 Path to Exile and 2 Go for the Throat. I removed the two Doom Blades I was playing for the 2 GffT's. I'm not sure if this is the correction combination or not, it might be reversed at 3 GffT's and 2 PtE's, we'll see though through time.
If necessary I have 1 Divine Offering main to kill an artifact creature or any artifact. In the sideboard I have 2 more Divine Offering's to come in for the 2 dead GffT's.
Echoing Truth is a catch all. Primarily used for Planeswalker's, Dredge tokens, Blood Moon or... anything, really.
Pulse of the Fields is something I just recently added, it seems pretty silly and really helps out our Mono R match up as well as Zoo and Jund.
The single Pact of Negation is also being tested right now. Not sure how it will pan out though, wouldn't mind an opinion on this card.
I'm running 24 lands, I should probably be running 25 though. So far it hasn't been an issue with 4 Esper Charm but we'll see.
Thoughts on my manabase?
Well, there you go. Feel free to ask me questions or give advice, it's all appreciated! Thanks.
Card Choices - I'll speak about the not so obvious ones. Devil's Advocate made a good point about a creature with Shroud or Hexproof. I looked through Gatherer and the only thing that stood out to me was Sphinx of Jwar Isle... and that just seems big fat and dumb. I decided to go with three Vendilion Clique for a couple reasons. Vendilion Clique doesn't need a whole lot of reasoning as to why it's such a great creature but I think it really shines in this deck. Clique is amazing in a control mirror, is great at surprise chump blocking and is amazing at eating removal either by tucking it or getting eaten by it. The 3/1 body makes it relevant. Clique is usually game plan number 1 as you'll have the best chance of drawing it.
Clique is an excellent choice, for obvious reasons, no complaints here. If it helps, I can't find any untargetable guys I like either.
I upped Spell Snare from two to three and have really noticed the difference. I love this card.
Spell Snare rocks. It might be worth it to test with four copies if you really love it, but I've always loved it when I run 3 and hated it when I run 4.
Right now I have 3 Path to Exile and 2 Go for the Throat. I removed the two Doom Blades I was playing for the 2 GffT's. I'm not sure if this is the correction combination or not, it might be reversed at 3 GffT's and 2 PtE's, we'll see though through time.
Go for the Throat is definitely better than Doom Blade. PtE is nice too when it works, but I will always recommend bringing the count down if your removal package can support it. You want to stay as far ahead in mana as possible.
If necessary I have 1 Divine Offering main to kill an artifact creature or any artifact. In the sideboard I have 2 more Divine Offering's to come in for the 2 dead GffT's.
Echoing Truth is a catch all. Primarily used for Planeswalker's, Dredge tokens, Blood Moon or... anything, really.
Pulse of the Fields is something I just recently added, it seems pretty silly and really helps out our Mono R match up as well as Zoo and Jund.
Looks like a nice little toolbox to me. I would recommend finding room for one Extirpate though. It's just so useful in so many situations.
The single Pact of Negation is also being tested right now. Not sure how it will pan out though, wouldn't mind an opinion on this card.
I love Pact of Negation. What's nice about it is it really saves you in emergency situations. Sometimes your opponent will play something you just can't afford to let resolve, and you won't always have a counter. Teachings will let you search for one, but since it costs 4 to cast and 6 to flashback, you don't always have the mana to search and counter. Pact fixes that problem. It's not a terribly common situation, but it is a very important one. As such, having one copy is perfect, because it's there to tutor up if you need it, but you're rarely going to draw it when you don't (and if you do, at least you won't draw multiples.)
I'm running 24 lands, I should probably be running 25 though. So far it hasn't been an issue with 4 Esper Charm but we'll see.
Thoughts on my manabase?
Well, there you go. Feel free to ask me questions or give advice, it's all appreciated! Thanks.
Well I agree, 25-26 lands would be better. Other than that your manabase looks pretty solid to me... Two swamps seems weird. Honestly I don't think you need basic lands other than 4-5 Islands, but I do understand the desire to have a basic land of each of your colors. Just the second swamp seems really weird. Blue fetch lands (Scalding Tarn and Misty Rainforest) are going to be better than Marsh Flats, because any of those can get you either of your shock lands, but Marsh Flats can't get you basic Islands if you're low on life. Between 3 Vendilion Clique (double blue), 1 Pact of Negation (double blue), 4 Cryptic Command (tripple blue), and 1 Teferi (triple blue), Islands are far, far more important to you than Swamps and Plains.
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"I am confident that if anyone actually
penetrates our facades, even the most
perceptive would still be fundamentally
unprepared for the truth of House Dimir."
Clique is an excellent choice, for obvious reasons, no complaints here. If it helps, I can't find any untargetable guys I like either.
Spell Snare rocks. It might be worth it to test with four copies if you really love it, but I've always loved it when I run 3 and hated it when I run 4.
Go for the Throat is definitely better than Doom Blade. PtE is nice too when it works, but I will always recommend bringing the count down if your removal package can support it. You want to stay as far ahead in mana as possible.
Looks like a nice little toolbox to me. I would recommend finding room for one Extirpate though. It's just so useful in so many situations.
I love Pact of Negation. What's nice about it is it really saves you in emergency situations. Sometimes your opponent will play something you just can't afford to let resolve, and you won't always have a counter. Teachings will let you search for one, but since it costs 4 to cast and 6 to flashback, you don't always have the mana to search and counter. Pact fixes that problem. It's not a terribly common situation, but it is a very important one. As such, having one copy is perfect, because it's there to tutor up if you need it, but you're rarely going to draw it when you don't (and if you do, at least you won't draw multiples.)
Well I agree, 25-26 lands would be better. Other than that your manabase looks pretty solid to me... Two swamps seems weird. Honestly I don't think you need basic lands other than 4-5 Islands, but I do understand the desire to have a basic land of each of your colors. Just the second swamp seems really weird. Blue fetch lands (Scalding Tarn and Misty Rainforest) are going to be better than Marsh Flats, because any of those can get you either of your shock lands, but Marsh Flats can't get you basic Islands if you're low on life. Between 3 Vendilion Clique (double blue), 1 Pact of Negation (double blue), 4 Cryptic Command (tripple blue), and 1 Teferi (triple blue), Islands are far, far more important to you than Swamps and Plains.
I agree with all of this, but path to exile at around 3 might be necessary to keep tempo with zoo. Giving them a land is a bit annoying but sometimes you just need a 1 cmc answer to zoo. You could drop down 1-2 after the sideboard if you bring in deathmark from board.
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In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
I am new to this forum but am excited to learn the potential of teachings control cuz I used to pilot it back in the day. I built a legacy version more for multiplayer casual really but it was a house. All I need to do is take out a few things and add the modern tech like rune snag.
Question for the class assembled: Why has nobody mentioned guile as the finisher. He's my go to guy. He is not untargetable but virtually unblockable. If we have counter backup its usually good game. PLus, even if they do manage to get rid of him we just tutor him again because he shuffles. Watch out for path to exile (You boarded in misstep didn't you) and you are golden with him.
I am new to this forum but am excited to learn the potential of teachings control cuz I used to pilot it back in the day. I built a legacy version more for multiplayer casual really but it was a house. All I need to do is take out a few things and add the modern tech like rune snag.
Question for the class assembled: Why has nobody mentioned guile as the finisher. He's my go to guy. He is not untargetable but virtually unblockable. If we have counter backup its usually good game. PLus, even if they do manage to get rid of him we just tutor him again because he shuffles. Watch out for path to exile (You boarded in misstep didn't you) and you are golden with him.
That's my two cents.
He's 6 mana triple U for 1 more power than BSA without the ability to prevent people from just racing him. At 6 CMC we also have titans which provide CA and are just as big and less color intensive.
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On Mono Black in Commander:
Quote from BlackJack68 »
But whomever your commander is, Cabal Coffers is really in charge.
Keep in mind people that Mental Misstep is banned.
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In case I didn't tell you, I don't care about your opinion I just want your facts. And not the facts that make you seem smart. I want the ones that are actual facts.
The banning of Mental misstep pretty much sets the stage for path to exile being the best removal spell in the format. It is unfortunate about ancestral vision but I have the feeling that it could be unbanned in the future. This means that the best draw spell we have is esper charm. I still think this deck is viable but the UB list is looking less appealing now that its had its only draw spell stripped of it.
I think vial zoo is hugely viable especially now that the combos are gone and mental misstep. This means a teachings deck will need more sweepers IMO. 4 damnation is a good start. Black sun's zenith maybe? I do like consume the meek.
The banning of Mental misstep pretty much sets the stage for path to exile being the best removal spell in the format. It is unfortunate about ancestral vision but I have the feeling that it could be unbanned in the future. This means that the best draw spell we have is esper charm. I still think this deck is viable but the UB list is looking less appealing now that its had its only draw spell stripped of it.
I think vial zoo is hugely viable especially now that the combos are gone and mental misstep. This means a teachings deck will need more sweepers IMO. 4 damnation is a good start. Black sun's zenith maybe? I do like consume the meek.
the deck will have to adapt in one way or another. I'm busy brewing other things now which is why I haven't put much into this tread over the last we or so.
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In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
Yeah, the bannings have solidified Ubw as the way to go for Teachings. Esper Charm was always the best draw option for this deck, but now there's really no suitable alternative. Now that I'm in white, I'm running:
"I am confident that if anyone actually
penetrates our facades, even the most
perceptive would still be fundamentally
unprepared for the truth of House Dimir."
I would try a 3/2 spit on go fors and paths. instead of 4-1
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In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
Thomas Jefferson
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after some testing today I'm going to take out the ancestral visions. I get cards on 4th turn at best, and that is too slow. I will try +2 something and +2 think twice, as 4 think twice is probably too many.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
Cockatrice username: Blackcat77
this deck doesn't run enough artfacts. as a gneral rule of thumb I like 2x the artifacts as I have thirst for knowledge.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
Hmm. Wouldn't it be easy to support some artifacts with Academy Ruins and such.
My only issue is that Gifts Ungiven is just so much better than Teachings. Can they exist in the same deck?
Cockatrice username: Blackcat77
This was literally just discussed on the previous page.
@ slipknot: Think Twice has been working out wonderfully for me. With two copies, I'm always happy to draw it. Cantrips are also fantastic, I had a really hard time bringing myself to cut my two repeals, and I may yet end up putting them back in. Or more Remands... I do love Remand.
"I am confident that if anyone actually
penetrates our facades, even the most
perceptive would still be fundamentally
unprepared for the truth of House Dimir."
I'm up to 4 pte now, and I still adding stuff. List on the OP have been edited with my new list....i think.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
"I am confident that if anyone actually
penetrates our facades, even the most
perceptive would still be fundamentally
unprepared for the truth of House Dimir."
plumeveil is just better as it can eat things, or at least eat a path and get us closer to 4 mana. Both are kinda dead against every non aggro deck. Plumeveil is pretty decent against faeries though.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
"I am confident that if anyone actually
penetrates our facades, even the most
perceptive would still be fundamentally
unprepared for the truth of House Dimir."
But Plumeveil can be searched up with Teachings.
"I am confident that if anyone actually
penetrates our facades, even the most
perceptive would still be fundamentally
unprepared for the truth of House Dimir."
Wall of Omens isn't actually the worst I just chose to run explosives over it. But it is definitely a good card.
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
1 Grave Titan
Control
4 Thoughtseize
2 Spell Snare
3 Remand
4 Mana Leak
4 Cryptic Command
Draw/Catch All
2 Esper Charm
Teachings
1 Divine Offering
1 Echoing Truth
2 Mystical Teachings
Removal
3 Path to Exile
2 Doom Blade
2 Consume the Meek
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
25 Lands
3 Island
1 Celestial Colonnade
3 Creeping Tar Pit
3 Watery Grave
2 Hallowed Fountain
3 Marsh Flats
1 Misty Rainforest
2 Plains
2 Swamp
2 Drowned Catacomb
2 Glacial Fortress
1 Sunken Ruins
3 Mental Misstep (Control/Zoo)
3 Kitchen Finks (Control/Zoo/Burn)
1 Vendilion Clique (Control/Combo)
1 Oblivion Ring (Catch All)
2 Divine Offering (So good right now)
1 Damnation (Zoo)
4 Spreading Seas (12 Post.dec)
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With the remaining card, I would probably throw in either a second Teferi, or a beat stick with Shroud or Hexproof, since your opponent's removal is just going to rot in their hand until you play a creature, and that creature will die fast.
Personally, I don't like Jace in this deck because he forces you to pay 4 mana on your own turn, which is something you really want to avoid here, but he is one of the most powerful blue cards ever printed, so I can't say you're making a bad choice by including him.
Your counter package looks beautiful (mine is the same, but -1 Remand +1 Spell Snare) and your removal is nice. I don't like more than one Path to Exile because giving my opponent free lands is the LAST thing I want to do in this deck, but that's a personal preference of mine.
Other than that, really nice start. How is Spreading Seas working for you? Seems kind of janky to me, but I haven't playtested it. I've been using Ghost Quarter, and it's... ok, but if Spreading Seas works well for you I may have to give it a try.
"I am confident that if anyone actually
penetrates our facades, even the most
perceptive would still be fundamentally
unprepared for the truth of House Dimir."
I took note of your 4 charm / 3 mystical teachings and have been a lot happier since then, thanks for the tip. Since the recent bannings I took an opportunity to restructure the deck a bit. This is what I have now:
3 Vendilion Clique
1 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
1 Grave Titan
Control
3 Spell Snare
3 Remand
4 Mana Leak
4 Cryptic Command
Removal
3 Path to Exile
2 Go for the Throat
1 Consume the Meek
Teachings Package
1 Divine Offering
1 Echoing Truth
1 Pulse of the Fields
4 Esper Charm
3 Mystical Teachings
1 Pact of Negation
1 Celestial Colonnade
3 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Island
2 River of Tears
3 Watery Grave
2 Hallowed Fountain
4 Marsh Flats
1 Plains
2 Swamp
2 Drowned Catacomb
2 Glacial Fortress
3 Kitchen Finks
1 Oblivion Ring
2 Divine Offering
1 Damnation
4 Spreading Seas
4 Thoughtseize
Card Choices - I'll speak about the not so obvious ones. Devil's Advocate made a good point about a creature with Shroud or Hexproof. I looked through Gatherer and the only thing that stood out to me was Sphinx of Jwar Isle... and that just seems big fat and dumb. I decided to go with three Vendilion Clique for a couple reasons. Vendilion Clique doesn't need a whole lot of reasoning as to why it's such a great creature but I think it really shines in this deck. Clique is amazing in a control mirror, is great at surprise chump blocking and is amazing at eating removal either by tucking it or getting eaten by it. The 3/1 body makes it relevant. Clique is usually game plan number 1 as you'll have the best chance of drawing it.
I upped Spell Snare from two to three and have really noticed the difference. I love this card.
Right now I have 3 Path to Exile and 2 Go for the Throat. I removed the two Doom Blades I was playing for the 2 GffT's. I'm not sure if this is the correction combination or not, it might be reversed at 3 GffT's and 2 PtE's, we'll see though through time.
If necessary I have 1 Divine Offering main to kill an artifact creature or any artifact. In the sideboard I have 2 more Divine Offering's to come in for the 2 dead GffT's.
Echoing Truth is a catch all. Primarily used for Planeswalker's, Dredge tokens, Blood Moon or... anything, really.
Pulse of the Fields is something I just recently added, it seems pretty silly and really helps out our Mono R match up as well as Zoo and Jund.
The single Pact of Negation is also being tested right now. Not sure how it will pan out though, wouldn't mind an opinion on this card.
I'm running 24 lands, I should probably be running 25 though. So far it hasn't been an issue with 4 Esper Charm but we'll see.
Thoughts on my manabase?
Well, there you go. Feel free to ask me questions or give advice, it's all appreciated! Thanks.
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Clique is an excellent choice, for obvious reasons, no complaints here. If it helps, I can't find any untargetable guys I like either.
Spell Snare rocks. It might be worth it to test with four copies if you really love it, but I've always loved it when I run 3 and hated it when I run 4.
Go for the Throat is definitely better than Doom Blade. PtE is nice too when it works, but I will always recommend bringing the count down if your removal package can support it. You want to stay as far ahead in mana as possible.
Looks like a nice little toolbox to me. I would recommend finding room for one Extirpate though. It's just so useful in so many situations.
I love Pact of Negation. What's nice about it is it really saves you in emergency situations. Sometimes your opponent will play something you just can't afford to let resolve, and you won't always have a counter. Teachings will let you search for one, but since it costs 4 to cast and 6 to flashback, you don't always have the mana to search and counter. Pact fixes that problem. It's not a terribly common situation, but it is a very important one. As such, having one copy is perfect, because it's there to tutor up if you need it, but you're rarely going to draw it when you don't (and if you do, at least you won't draw multiples.)
Well I agree, 25-26 lands would be better. Other than that your manabase looks pretty solid to me... Two swamps seems weird. Honestly I don't think you need basic lands other than 4-5 Islands, but I do understand the desire to have a basic land of each of your colors. Just the second swamp seems really weird. Blue fetch lands (Scalding Tarn and Misty Rainforest) are going to be better than Marsh Flats, because any of those can get you either of your shock lands, but Marsh Flats can't get you basic Islands if you're low on life. Between 3 Vendilion Clique (double blue), 1 Pact of Negation (double blue), 4 Cryptic Command (tripple blue), and 1 Teferi (triple blue), Islands are far, far more important to you than Swamps and Plains.
"I am confident that if anyone actually
penetrates our facades, even the most
perceptive would still be fundamentally
unprepared for the truth of House Dimir."
I agree with all of this, but path to exile at around 3 might be necessary to keep tempo with zoo. Giving them a land is a bit annoying but sometimes you just need a 1 cmc answer to zoo. You could drop down 1-2 after the sideboard if you bring in deathmark from board.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
Question for the class assembled: Why has nobody mentioned guile as the finisher. He's my go to guy. He is not untargetable but virtually unblockable. If we have counter backup its usually good game. PLus, even if they do manage to get rid of him we just tutor him again because he shuffles. Watch out for path to exile (You boarded in misstep didn't you) and you are golden with him.
That's my two cents.
He's 6 mana triple U for 1 more power than BSA without the ability to prevent people from just racing him. At 6 CMC we also have titans which provide CA and are just as big and less color intensive.
Cockatrice username: Blackcat77
I think vial zoo is hugely viable especially now that the combos are gone and mental misstep. This means a teachings deck will need more sweepers IMO. 4 damnation is a good start. Black sun's zenith maybe? I do like consume the meek.
the deck will have to adapt in one way or another. I'm busy brewing other things now which is why I haven't put much into this tread over the last we or so.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
4 Island
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Drowned Catacomb
3 Tolaria West
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Watery Grave
1 Calciform Pools
1 Dreadship Reef
4 Wall of Omens
2 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
1 Grave Titan
Card Advantage:
4 Esper Charm
3 Mystical Teachings
Permission:
3 Spell Snare
2 Remand
4 Rune Snag
4 Cryptic Command
1 Pact of Negation
1 Path to Exile
4 Go for the Throat
1 Consume the Meek
1 Extirpate
"I am confident that if anyone actually
penetrates our facades, even the most
perceptive would still be fundamentally
unprepared for the truth of House Dimir."
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson