just gonna bring up some options in the maindeck or sideboard that can be used against 12 post. shadow of doubt was used in the era of thepths, it was a house, against things like zoo and boros you brought in perimeter captain, he looks like trash, but he in a lot of ways made the zoo match an easy with coupled with pulse of the fields, spellburst was good as a 1 of. dralnu is a good singleton a long with crovax and 2 bsa
dralnu is ok, but I would rather just win instead of getting card advantage at the at point. Crovax was good because of elves and faeries, but it was bad against zoo which I expect to see a lot of at least for a while. I don't think shadow of doubt will really do well against 12post. It can stop one thing which isn't enough. This deck has a hard time with 12 post, but should do decent elsewhere.
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@DevilAdvocate Firespout is played over volcanic fallout because it only requires 1 red and it also deals 3 damage not 2. Huge difference.
@Slipknot
All I see in the Pro tour Austin top 8 that isn't banned is zoo. Thank you for telling me about what I already know is good.
If what you say is true then how come you have never heard of 4 color teachings until I suggest it to the thread?
Saying "most of your deck" is also known as being a scrub 101. You see the way players progress and decks evolve is by actually making arguments. That "you are bad because you disagree with me" mentality isn't going to cut it, either produce valid points come up with suggestions backed with good theory and testing or get out of the thread.
Weak creatures to me are creatures with toughness 4 or less. I don't know if someone like you can figure this out, but 4 mana and a grove means that you don't have to spend a card to get rid of the creature. After wiping the board once this is the best way to keep card advantage up and to not waste a perfectly good path to exile on a nacatl when you know there are goyfs and knights still chilling in the deck.
This deck plays like 3 ways to win. Punishing Fire(Oh wait you don't play that), Teferi, Grave Titan, Tarpit
Believe it or not Landing a Teferi doesn't automatically win you the game each time and sometimes they have an answer to grave titan too..
Playing red gives you access to firespout, which is an amazing card against zoo. It is basically the best way to hate zoo out without over committing your deck to playing too much 141 removal.
Also to Plum I think that spell burst is interesting and may be worth looking into. I will try it as a teachings target at some point.
EDIT:
My current Line up for those interested in helping me develop 4 color teachings
P.S im sorry that this "wall" of text is very scary and menacing but i believe you can do it the lack of gramer and punctuation is because i have a blood fued with it due to the fact when i was four and the teacher said i would die poor and lonely and the kids would dance on my grave when i died because i could not correctly punctuate with commas
I have been playing the grixis version a few games and I just don't see the point. Explosives vs firespout? Nice splash. Also Punishing Fire kills almost none of the creatures in zoo sans bad hatebear versions.
Thought Scour is terrible in BV. How many flashback spells are being run? Say roughly 15. This gives you a roughly 38% chance of milling one flashback spell. And even if you do, you paid one mana to cantrip and dump an overcosted spell. Alchemy, Geistflame, Devil's play, etc. all cost much more to flash back than your average card, so you're not getting full value out of it.
You'd much rather play Ponder. At least that generates a tangible advantage.
I have been playing the grixis version a few games and I just don't see the point. Explosives vs firespout? Nice splash. Also Punishing Fire kills almost none of the creatures in zoo sans bad hatebear versions.
You do realize that they both basically cost 3 mana right?
I don't think punishing fire + grove is worth it in this deck. It doesn't do anything really relevant, its too slow to win you the game, clutters the manabase, especially if you use vivid lands. Lands that come into play tapped are bad in this format.
Teachings should not be more than 3 colors imo. U/b/w covers everything it needs and doesn't detract from its engine.
THIS 100X!!! If you don't agree with this then there is no amount of logic that will ever convince you that good, non-oppressive, combos should be allowed. If you don't agree with it then just don't play this game, and you certainly shouldn't feel entitled to make any comment on ban lists ever.
I'm glad to see that Modern is real and exploding with popularity. It's good to have an active Teachings thread again. Control without Spell Snare has been so dull...:tongue: I commend slipknot72102 for his work on the Primer in the OP; now it's time for me to chime in with my thoughts.
I don't think that Vivid lands are good for a control deck which fundamentally leans on its 4 Spell Snares (and some other 1-mana answers) in order to not lose because it's on the draw. And for the record, Wafo-Tapa wrote that he chose Dreadship Reef over Grove of the Burnwillows because aggro decks evolved to handle Punishing Fire and Dreadship Reef was way better for beating Faeries, Ascension, and the mirror match (as well as giving the deck even more ways to profit by being an instant-speed machine). I have personally played Teachings and 5-color Control both, each for at least a year and a half. I wouldn't be caught dead playing Vivid/Pool as my control deck's manabase in this format. The tempo is realistically going to kill you in at least a third of the match-ups, and that's not even thinking about how you handle Blood Moon and Stone Rain--those cards weren't legal for that Pro Tour.
Please don't take this as me standing completely against taplands. Some taplands are fine for this deck. But when you go beyond 3-4, things get really dicey. I often play taplads on turn 3 or 4 in a deck like this, when I can use my existing lands to threaten counter mana or removal mana (or whatever). I don't want to be setting my game plan as playing a tapland on turn 1 so that I can actually cast my spells later on in the game, if on turn 1 I'm fighting for my life with Spell Snare/Dismember/Path to Exile/Engineered Explosives. That's the lesson I have learned from 6 PTQs with Esper Teachings last year.
I believe that Wafo-Tapa was on to something. Storage lands are incredible. Whatever control deck I end up playing in Modern, I want it to be using Storage lands. The ability to develop your manabase is one of the most important parts of the deck. If you play any kind of control mirror or near-mirror, a turn 2 Storage Land is cataclysmic. If you play against combo (storm or otherwise), Storage Lands are going to be the focus for being able to interact with a deck casting a bunch of spells in one turn. If you play against aggro, Storage Lands force your opponent to either make plays or allow you to grow stronger by getting more out of your mana in each turn. And nothing helps the Teachings engine more than having a bunch of extra mana to dump into draw spells, tutors, and Teferi.
So (and this may come as a shock), I don't want to use Esper Charm anymore. I want 3-4 or possibly even more storage lands in my deck, and I want to be playing them on turn 2 as the focal point of my game plan. Esper Charm is still playable in a deck with storage lands, but it's a lot weaker when you are running a colorless land out on turn 2. There are other great draw spells available, and my current goal is to find one which is more compatible with Dreadship Reef/Calciform Pools. More on this, later.
I also want to find a solution for 12-Post Eldrazi, considering that it's the nightmare match-up for us. My initial perspective is that attacking the manabase is the most promising plan. Ghost Quarter/Tectonic Edge, Tolaria West, and either Loam or Crucible can help with this. Spreading Seas is a viable board card. Discard is another strong tool against this deck, but it doesn't solve topdecked aliens which do very relevant things in addition to being a threat you have to counter.
I honestly wonder if Cryptic Command should be partially or fully replaced with a spell that isn't so blue-intensive. I'm looking at 3-4 storage lands and probably 2-4 Wasteland variants in a ~26 land manabase. I know that Cryptic is really powerful, but it doesn't stop Eye of Ugin, Grove of the Burnwillow, Emeria, Crypt of Agadeem, or any other really dangerous land. Those seem to be pretty imporant, right now. I think I might honestly choose colorless lands over Cryptic Command, as a necessity for survival. I rarely use that card as a tap effect when I'm playing control (except against Elfball), so I think other counterspells and other bounce spells can probably fill its void. No, I'm not happy to put my Cryptic Commands on the shelf again, but it could simply be correct.
Hypothetically speaking, let's say that the manabase needs to play a bunch more colorless lands in order to keep dangerous lands in check. It might not be necessary, but in case it is...what happens to the deck without Cryptic Command? For starters, there are 4 less hard counters and 4 less bounce spells. That's obvious. Secondly, that's 4 less cards which are often 2-for-1s; Cryptic is actually built into the infrastructure of the draw suite. And because it cantrips, Cryptic Command is a very punishing answer. If someone plays a threat into a Cryptic, he's not only out his threat--he's now down a card from you. That's not necessary for a permission deck, but it sure makes things a lot easier. But let's just forget about the remorse and other negative emotions--if Cryptic isn't castable, then replacements must be found.
For bounce spells, we have Repeal and Into the Roil. Repeal is actually way better as a bounce spell than Cryptic, aside from being unable to hit lands. It only demands that you have one basic Island to clean up a Blood Moon...I like that a lot. Echoing Truth is a sideboard card that we've all probably used as at least a 1-of bullet, for those of us who played the Teachings deck in Extended last year. If Cryptic is taken out and we play less bounce spells in the maindeck, then more Echoing Truths in the board could be really strong.
Without Cryptic, there is open space for mana-intensive countermagic like Mindbreak Trap, Rewind, and Dismal Failure. Also, we could just play additional cheaper countermagic. 3-drops becom more viable--Faerie Trickery, Hinder, Cancel, Lapse of Certainty, etc. Condescend comes to mind. More Remands come to mind. Spell Burst seems a lot stronger without so many expensive counters alongside it.
Perhaps the most damaging loss without Cryptic is the combination of Card Advantage, countermagic, and bounce in a small corner of deck space. It's fine to have Repeal, Mindbreak Trap, and more draw spells, but the deck is only going to have 60 cards in it simultaneously. I could see some difficulty in spreading out those jobs to a number of different cards, but it's possible. Permission has existed before and after Cryptic Command, just as it has without Force of Will and Counterspell.
Let's look at draw spells.
Think Twice is acceptable. The speed is not a major issue for this type of deck, but I do not think that it's good to play too many graveyard-reliant cards. Running 3 Teachings and a Dralnu or a Loam is fine. Running 4 Think Twice and 3 Teachings will get you killed when someone pulls out the grave hate. If you don't think grave hate will be played, let me remind you that people were maindecking a Bojuka Bog in Zoo by the end of last season, and that was because it neutered opposing Knight of the Reliquary. I can assure you all that there are enough dangerous graveyard-based cards that people will be packing the hate, so I don't want to walk down this road.
Thirst for Knowledge would be perfect if we could play some artifact lands and/or Moxen. Those are all banned (and I'm not complaining at all), so Thirst is more of a cantrip than a raw draw spell, here. If we play a lot of Explosives and end up running some other artifacts in the main, then Thirst is the way to go. But otherwise, it isn't card advantage often enough to be reliable.
Gifts Ungiven is actually really good in this deck. It finds Teachings, and Teachings finds it. It dig up land drops, which is something that Teachings doesn't do (and the main reason that we play other draw spells in the deck). You can do a lot with Gifts, and there are enough different types of answers and what-not that you could realisically play Gifts within the confines of this deck shell. However, playing a bunch of 4-drop slow draw spells means you're either running acceleration or you're getting worked by tempo plays.
There's Jace's Ingenuity. I obviously love the card, but it's slower than Gifts. On the other hand, it produces more card advantage than Gifts does. I think Teachings decks will probably play 1-2 of them for when you Teachings-->draw spell.
Realms Uncharted is a thought. It does thin land out extremely efficiently, and I adore the thought of getting Storage Land, Wasteland effect, Academy Ruins, Manland and then eventually finding a Loam. It's a very elegant draw spell, though it is green.
What I've been working on is using the following combination of cards:
Plans+Research=draw 5 cards. That's serious raw power, and you are investing 4 mana over 2 installments...only one of which is at sorcery speed. That's definitely a good draw engine. The downside is when you have one without the other. To handle that problem, I have Engineered Explosives as a fundamental part of the answer suite and that gives another way to pop Hatching Plans in a pinch. For Perilous Research, the manabase runs Flagstones. Tolaria West ties things together by being a tutor for either Flagstones or Explosives...while this is obviously very slow, it means you almost always can find a way to draw more cards. I don't think that this is enough of a draw engine in total for the deck, so I like the idea of ~2 Teachings, Gifts Ungiven, Thirst for Knowledge, etc. to round out the deck. A Life from the Loam or Crucible of Worlds or two would tie a lot of things together--especially Loam (because of Tolaria West).
Playing Flagstones of Trokair also fuels the potential for a lot of maindecked Ghost Quarters. In case you haven't had the pleasure of seeing that interaction: you float a white with your Flagstones and then Ghost Quarter your own land, and this gives you any basic you want and any plains you want (usually a dual land). Pretty darn good synergy. Ghost Quarter is not going to be a straight-up Strip Mine against 12post because that deck definitely will run a good amount of basics, but blowing up the first Cloudpost has a profound effect on that deck. Vesuva sucks when there isn't a Post on the table, and playing a Glimmerpost doesn't ramp anymore without a Post. I like Tectonic Edge, but Ghost Quarter can handle lands when your opponent has less than 4, and it doesn't require any extra mana to activate. It's also not too embarassing to GQ your own non-Flagtones land so that you can tutor up any color basic you need, if you're anticipating a Blood Moon or you want to find that third color or another blue source, etc. And if you mix in Aven Mindcensor or some kind of graveyard recursion, it becomes even deadlier.
Tomorrow, I'm leaving for a camping trip, so I'll be without internet for almost 2 weeks. I hope I've left enough here to really stir up some discussion.
You do realize that they both basically cost 3 mana right?
Except one of the those gets recurred with academy ruins and can kill Knight of the Reliquary and Tarmogoyf
Also if you want a card for 12 post, Aven Mindsenser has been sick. But of course that is only for esper versions. But hey, firespout and punishing fire is good magics. Right?
Thought Scour is terrible in BV. How many flashback spells are being run? Say roughly 15. This gives you a roughly 38% chance of milling one flashback spell. And even if you do, you paid one mana to cantrip and dump an overcosted spell. Alchemy, Geistflame, Devil's play, etc. all cost much more to flash back than your average card, so you're not getting full value out of it.
You'd much rather play Ponder. At least that generates a tangible advantage.
I don't think punishing fire + grove is worth it in this deck. It doesn't do anything really relevant, its too slow to win you the game, clutters the manabase, especially if you use vivid lands. Lands that come into play tapped are bad in this format.
Teachings should not be more than 3 colors imo. U/b/w covers everything it needs and doesn't detract from its engine.
Agreed. I am completely hosing all other control decks, and most Aggro decks. Cryptic plays a HUGE part here and I wouldn't dream of going bellow 4. The tap ability can save you in the Aggro MU, and is useful every once in a while vs other decks (tap a grave Titan and tokens?) The bounce also is great vs PWs and Pyromancer.
The pyro MU is so in our favor it's insane. I run 8 hard counters for it, plus 4 mana leak, plus 4 Esper charm (destroys one that resolves). Then you get to sb in Pierce over PtE...
THIS 100X!!! If you don't agree with this then there is no amount of logic that will ever convince you that good, non-oppressive, combos should be allowed. If you don't agree with it then just don't play this game, and you certainly shouldn't feel entitled to make any comment on ban lists ever.
Mindcensor has always been phenominal, but if the 12post deck counter-boards removal for it, there has to be additional disruption. Maybe Thoughtseize-->Mindcensor is the way to go. I don't know. I intend to run Mindcensors in my board, but I don't want my opponents to be able to just slowly play land drops and then eventually cast threats that countermagic and removal are not adequately desiged to answer.
I am not worried about Pyromancer Ascension because there will be bounce spells and Explosives in my main deck, along with storage lands and Spell Snare. You dont need Esper Charm on top of all that...Permission is going to win that war.
Honestly, I don't want to cut Cryptic Command and Esper Charm from this deck. I'm suggesting that they might not be as important as utility lands. There are other counterspells, other bounce spells, and other draw spells. Dreadship Reef and Ghost Quarter are unique in their jobs.
I don't think I can bring myself to drop even 1 Command. It's just too good. What it comes down to is that Rewind doesn't cantrip, doesn't help vs Aggro, doesn't deal with things on the field already. CC does all of that.
EDIT: I dont this Reef is really worth it. I don't see much utility out of that card except maybe the control mirror? No other MU takes enough turns to save a noticeable amount of mana
Mindcensor has always been phenominal, but if the 12post deck counter-boards removal for it, there has to be additional disruption. Maybe Thoughtseize-->Mindcensor is the way to go. I don't know. I intend to run Mindcensors in my board, but I don't want my opponents to be able to just slowly play land drops and then eventually cast threats that countermagic and removal are not adequately desiged to answer.
I am not worried about Pyromancer Ascension because there will be bounce spells and Explosives in my main deck, along with storage lands and Spell Snare. You dont need Esper Charm on top of all that...Permission is going to win that war.
Honestly, I don't want to cut Cryptic Command and Esper Charm from this deck. I'm suggesting that they might not be as important as utility lands. There are other counterspells, other bounce spells, and other draw spells. Dreadship Reef and Ghost Quarter are unique in their jobs.
I like a tutorable Cryptic quite a bit.
When the deck was in standard, Rewind was basically a Timewalk. Your opponent didn't do anything, and at the end of turn you get to Teachings for whatever they tried to do. That is why it was good.
Quote from raggedjoe »
I don't think I can bring myself to drop even 1 Command. It's just too good. What it comes down to is that Rewind doesn't cantrip, doesn't help vs Aggro, doesn't deal with things on the field already. CC does all of that.
Part of that is because you've become reliant on Command. Which could mean your Teachings toolbox is underdeveloped. Command's purpose is really as a "catch-all" answer with a cantrip as a bonus.
And if you are worried about drawing cards, Careful Consideration and Thirst for Knowledge are both in the format, and are both instant speed. Besides, you should be running 4 Remands + 2 Think Twice, if not 4 Esper charm as well, if you have white. I don't see how Command's cantrip is a loss in this deck.
You don't play Command to draw a card. You have better cards for that. Think about it.
THIS 100X!!! If you don't agree with this then there is no amount of logic that will ever convince you that good, non-oppressive, combos should be allowed. If you don't agree with it then just don't play this game, and you certainly shouldn't feel entitled to make any comment on ban lists ever.
1-2 storage lands are great. Esper charm is the only card that is really hard to cast in the deck. You also need wurmcoil engine/baneslayer in your deck.
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In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
Spell Snare isn't good right now. All the stuff that you would normally spell snare has been banned. You know you shouldn't play it when most of the zoo decks are only playing Goyf and Helix for 2 cmc cards.
Also are you suggesting that we brew some type of bug still-esque deck? Seems interesting, but what would the main colors be other than U and G/W?
I don't think I can bring myself to drop even 1 Command. It's just too good. What it comes down to is that Rewind doesn't cantrip, doesn't help vs Aggro, doesn't deal with things on the field already. CC does all of that.
EDIT: I dont this Reef is really worth it. I don't see much utility out of that card except maybe the control mirror? No other MU takes enough turns to save a noticeable amount of mana
I'm never dropping a single cryptic ever.
I will say that the single storage land has won me several games and is extremely powerful and shouldn't be taken lightly.
I want to fit a second one in. Its really great vs dragonstorm, 12post, mirror. The only problem I have with it is that it isn't very good against aggro and that is what is dominating the field right now. Thus the right number is 1-2. Just in my opinion ofcourse.
Also if anyone is having trouble with 12post sowing salt with 4 mindbreak traps(you have to play this anyway for storm) is ridiculous.
If you think Spell Snare is bad, you need to wake up. It counters 2-mana counters against anyting blue. It counters Dark Confidant, the most dangerous threat in the format for a control deck. It counters any hatebear (Gaddok Teeg, Meddling Mage, and the new one that stops you from casting spells on your opponent's turn). It counters 2-mana acceleration. It counters Fauna Shaman. It counters a lot of burn spells. It allows you to stay in a game that would otherwise be a loss because you were on the draw.
I don't think I can bring myself to drop even 1 Command. It's just too good. What it comes down to is that Rewind doesn't cantrip, doesn't help vs Aggro, doesn't deal with things on the field already. CC does all of that.
First of all, I think you're disregarding the fact that I have played Cryptic Command for several years. I know how good the card is.
Second, I think you're forgetting that plenty of full-on permission decks have flourished without the ability to play Cryptic Command because it wasn't legal in the format. Mystical Teachings was in its hey-day before the command was even printed.
Rewind actually is more of a blowout against aggro than Cryptic Command is. Your opponent casts a creature, which gets countered for free. Then he tries to run another threat out there, and that gets hit by a 2-mana counter. Then you play a spot removal spell. Or you follow your Rewind up with a mid-combat Teferi and eat a creature for breakfast. Or you Rewind into a draw spell. Cryptic Command is an amazing card, but Rewind is no slouch. Rewind could teach Cryptic a thing or two about handling Gigadrowse and mana rituals. So could Mindbreak Trap.
If I'm able to play a more sophisticated manabase in order to solve advance metagame problems, but the cost is cutting Cryptic Command, then I'm cutting Cryptic Command for the greater good of my deckbuilding strategy. No sacred cows.
I don't think Jwar Isle is necessary for this deck because you should be casting a threat at instant speed, in most cases. Basically, you don't need to win the game quickly because your deck is supposed to have inevitability on every other deck in the room. If your deck doesn't have inevitability, then that needs to be fixed. Jwar Isle has only done wonderful things for me in the time that I've used it, but for this deck, it's better to play something more explosive. Your plan is to play the creature with Teferi out, so you're going to untap with it before he can play his removal spells. That makes Baneslayer a lot more reliable than it usually is. I think that utility creatures are also really important to consider as finishers. Crovax shuts down a number of annoyances, though it's probably more of a board card these days. Dralnu is always really good here, because you're going to be able to untap with it 90% of the time and that means it can flashback a counterspell to protect itself. I like Grave Titan, too, as well as Vengeful Pharoah.
Personally, right now I'm using 2 Teferis and a Windreaver or two in my maindeck. I am unsure of whether I want to stick with 2-3 Teachings in my deck, or if there is a better draw spell to supplement my Hatching Plans engine. Yes, I know that this is the Teachings thread, but I'm not committed to Teachings as a card so far. I'm committed to storage lands, Spell Snare, Rune Snag, and Explosives. Everything else is being scrutinized. If I play Teachings in my control deck, I'll probably end up running a Dralnu and at least boarding a Crovax. If I commit to black as a splash, I will definitely board 4 Death's Shadow for aggressive decks.
Spell Snare isn't good right now. All the stuff that you would normally spell snare has been banned.
IF! (big if) spell snare becomes no longer needed, I would advocate Spellstutter Sprite in it's place. 1/1 beater that counters a Kird Ape? Sounds Great.
Quote from i-never-smile »
First of all, I think you're disregarding the fact that I have played Cryptic Command for several years. I know how good the card is.
Second, I think you're forgetting that plenty of full-on permission decks have flourished without the ability to play Cryptic Command because it wasn't legal in the format. Mystical Teachings was in its hey-day before the command was even printed.
Rewind actually is more of a blowout against aggro than Cryptic Command is. Your opponent casts a creature, which gets countered for free. Then he tries to run another threat out there, and that gets hit by a 2-mana counter. Then you play a spot removal spell. Or you follow your Rewind up with a mid-combat Teferi and eat a creature for breakfast. Or you Rewind into a draw spell. Cryptic Command is an amazing card, but Rewind is no slouch. Rewind could teach Cryptic a thing or two about handling Gigadrowse and mana rituals. So could Mindbreak Trap.
If I'm able to play a more sophisticated manabase in order to solve advance metagame problems, but the cost is cutting Cryptic Command, then I'm cutting Cryptic Command for the greater good of my deckbuilding strategy. No sacred cows.
The more I think about it, the better Rewind sounds. I would still run one Command as a tutorable catch all, similar to Pact of Negation, but Rewind makes a lot of sense.
Counter whatever Zoo drops, kill a creature with Doom Blade/Path to Exile, and Teachings at the end of their turn? That sounds a lot better than "Tap all your doods, I draw a card."
THIS 100X!!! If you don't agree with this then there is no amount of logic that will ever convince you that good, non-oppressive, combos should be allowed. If you don't agree with it then just don't play this game, and you certainly shouldn't feel entitled to make any comment on ban lists ever.
I'm not running Command for the cantrip, but rather I'm saying that the cantrip makes it much more powerful in my experience. I'll admit my teachings toolbox is underdeveloped... I have Consume the Meek, Pulse of the Fields, and Extirpate (thinking about surgical extraction). Like I said earlier I have little experience with this deck, so any help is greatly appreciated.
EDIT: Being a slow typed sucks. Ok, I see several points. What if I replaced 3 Command with 2 Rewind and a Pact? Pact of Negation seems like a really strong choice. What else do you guys have in the toolbox? I suppose I could also replace a filter or two with Reefs.
I will test BSA over sphinx, but shins is just sooooo good :/
I'm not running Command for the cantrip, but rather I'm saying that the cantrip makes it much more powerful in my experience. I'll admit my teachings toolbox is underdeveloped... I have Consume the Meek, Pulse of the Fields, and Extirpate (thinking about surgical extraction). Like I said earlier I have little experience with this deck, so any help is greatly appreciated.
(Decklist, see above)
Do you think I should use BSA over Sphinx, and Wurmcoil over Titan? Why?
1) The cantrip doesn't make Cryptic good. Counter + Teachings is better than Counter + Draw.
2) I think you could use a few more cards in your toolbox. I generally use 5-7 one-ofs.
3)I would say Wurmcoil is good, because it stops aggro dead. I can't comment on Baneslayer Angel because I don't use her.
THIS 100X!!! If you don't agree with this then there is no amount of logic that will ever convince you that good, non-oppressive, combos should be allowed. If you don't agree with it then just don't play this game, and you certainly shouldn't feel entitled to make any comment on ban lists ever.
you have to run spell snare! an example is this, you are on the draw(already bad) they have two mana you have 1, they are either gonna be tapping out to play goyf/bob or some bob you need to option to be able to say "NO!" so far my creature package is 2 bsa 3 teferi 1 dralnu and 1 crovax.
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P.S im sorry that this "wall" of text is very scary and menacing but i believe you can do it the lack of gramer and punctuation is because i have a blood fued with it due to the fact when i was four and the teacher said i would die poor and lonely and the kids would dance on my grave when i died because i could not correctly punctuate with commas
you have to run spell snare! an example is this, you are on the draw(already bad) they have two mana you have 1, they are either gonna be tapping out to play goyf/bob or some bob you need to option to be able to say "NO!" so far my creature package is 2 bsa 3 teferi 1 dralnu and 1 crovax.
Spell Snare is best in a format with a lot of 2 drops. In this format, the only real 2 drops that you have to worry about are Dark Confidant, Arcbound Ravager, Tarmogoyf, Cranial Plating, and Spellstutter Sprite.
Everything esle is 1 mana or 3 mana (or less, in the case of Affinity.) So I could definitely see Spell Snare usage drop.
HOWEVER!
Spell Snare + Storage lands are needed in the mirror match. Teachings vs Teachings comes down to "Who is ballsy enough to play Teferi first?" Thus the counter war ensues, and Spell Snare is amazing at that.
THIS 100X!!! If you don't agree with this then there is no amount of logic that will ever convince you that good, non-oppressive, combos should be allowed. If you don't agree with it then just don't play this game, and you certainly shouldn't feel entitled to make any comment on ban lists ever.
If you think Spell Snare is bad, you need to wake up. It counters 2-mana counters against anyting blue. It counters Dark Confidant, the most dangerous threat in the format for a control deck. It counters any hatebear (Gaddok Teeg, Meddling Mage, and the new one that stops you from casting spells on your opponent's turn). It counters 2-mana acceleration. It counters Fauna Shaman. It counters a lot of burn spells. It allows you to stay in a game that would otherwise be a loss because you were on the draw.
I took the card out after the first day of playing with it.
Everytime I lost to zoo I looked at my hand and there was always a spellsnare.
Took the card out and my win percentage went up immediately problem solved.
ALL of those goofy little creatures you just told me it counters can be killed with punishing fire.
EDIT: @Earthbound. No Spell Snare isn't good in the mirror. You obviously aren't playing logic knot. Now that card blows out the mirror.
How does Knot help if they can just counter it? In the mirror, I think the key is spending the least mana for counters, so you cast the last one. In that respect, Snare is great in the mirror. Knot seems only good if you cast the last counterspell. But then you win anyway
I'm not running Command for the cantrip, but rather I'm saying that the cantrip makes it much more powerful in my experience. I'll admit my teachings toolbox is underdeveloped... I have Consume the Meek, Pulse of the Fields, and Extirpate (thinking about surgical extraction). Like I said earlier I have little experience with this deck, so any help is greatly appreciated.
If you are going to play Esper Charm, don't screw around. Play 4 of them. I think that 4 Charms, 3 Teachings, and 1-2 Ingenuities is correct for that type of build.
From my experience, Marsh Flats and non-Island basics don't belong in the deck. You want fetchlands to either get a dual land of the correct color or you want it to get a basic Island. If a Blood Moon hits, forget about the Swamp or plains. You want more Islands so you can cast your bounce spells. I also like Godless Shrine over Arcane Sanctum, even without Godless Shrine being fetch-able. It rounds out the manabase with more sources of each splash color, and it can cast 1-mana black or white spells. It doesn't need to tap for blue because it already can contribute to Esper Charm and you should be able to cast Cryptic Command with most combinations of 3 other lands in your deck. So the option to come into play untapped is a pretty nifty one, for Godless Shrine.
Manabases are extremely important and very difficult to fine-tune. The more I build decks, the more I find myself working on the lands with a higher priority over anything else.
Edit: Wow, this thread has exploded with activity. It's hard to keep up with the post speed.
spell snare still stops the best card in the format. It isn't great as it was when every deck had 4 SFM no questions asked. I could honestly see dropping down to 2(i ran 3) but I would struggle to find which spell to replace it. maybe a singleton flashfreeze since red and green are everywhere in this format.
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dralnu is ok, but I would rather just win instead of getting card advantage at the at point. Crovax was good because of elves and faeries, but it was bad against zoo which I expect to see a lot of at least for a while. I don't think shadow of doubt will really do well against 12post. It can stop one thing which isn't enough. This deck has a hard time with 12 post, but should do decent elsewhere.
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All I see in the Pro tour Austin top 8 that isn't banned is zoo. Thank you for telling me about what I already know is good.
If what you say is true then how come you have never heard of 4 color teachings until I suggest it to the thread?
Saying "most of your deck" is also known as being a scrub 101. You see the way players progress and decks evolve is by actually making arguments. That "you are bad because you disagree with me" mentality isn't going to cut it, either produce valid points come up with suggestions backed with good theory and testing or get out of the thread.
Weak creatures to me are creatures with toughness 4 or less. I don't know if someone like you can figure this out, but 4 mana and a grove means that you don't have to spend a card to get rid of the creature. After wiping the board once this is the best way to keep card advantage up and to not waste a perfectly good path to exile on a nacatl when you know there are goyfs and knights still chilling in the deck.
This deck plays like 3 ways to win. Punishing Fire(Oh wait you don't play that), Teferi, Grave Titan, Tarpit
Believe it or not Landing a Teferi doesn't automatically win you the game each time and sometimes they have an answer to grave titan too..
Playing red gives you access to firespout, which is an amazing card against zoo. It is basically the best way to hate zoo out without over committing your deck to playing too much 141 removal.
Also to Plum I think that spell burst is interesting and may be worth looking into. I will try it as a teachings target at some point.
EDIT:
My current Line up for those interested in helping me develop 4 color teachings
4 Cryptic Command
4 Firespout
4 Preordain
3 Esper Charm
3 Mana Leak
3 Punishing Fire
2 Mystical Teachings
2 Coalition Relic
2 Path to exile
1 Extirpate
1 Logic Knot
1 Consume the Meek
1 Teferi
1 Grave Titan
1 Cruel Ultimatum
You do realize that they both basically cost 3 mana right?
Teachings should not be more than 3 colors imo. U/b/w covers everything it needs and doesn't detract from its engine.
I don't think that Vivid lands are good for a control deck which fundamentally leans on its 4 Spell Snares (and some other 1-mana answers) in order to not lose because it's on the draw. And for the record, Wafo-Tapa wrote that he chose Dreadship Reef over Grove of the Burnwillows because aggro decks evolved to handle Punishing Fire and Dreadship Reef was way better for beating Faeries, Ascension, and the mirror match (as well as giving the deck even more ways to profit by being an instant-speed machine). I have personally played Teachings and 5-color Control both, each for at least a year and a half. I wouldn't be caught dead playing Vivid/Pool as my control deck's manabase in this format. The tempo is realistically going to kill you in at least a third of the match-ups, and that's not even thinking about how you handle Blood Moon and Stone Rain--those cards weren't legal for that Pro Tour.
Please don't take this as me standing completely against taplands. Some taplands are fine for this deck. But when you go beyond 3-4, things get really dicey. I often play taplads on turn 3 or 4 in a deck like this, when I can use my existing lands to threaten counter mana or removal mana (or whatever). I don't want to be setting my game plan as playing a tapland on turn 1 so that I can actually cast my spells later on in the game, if on turn 1 I'm fighting for my life with Spell Snare/Dismember/Path to Exile/Engineered Explosives. That's the lesson I have learned from 6 PTQs with Esper Teachings last year.
I believe that Wafo-Tapa was on to something. Storage lands are incredible. Whatever control deck I end up playing in Modern, I want it to be using Storage lands. The ability to develop your manabase is one of the most important parts of the deck. If you play any kind of control mirror or near-mirror, a turn 2 Storage Land is cataclysmic. If you play against combo (storm or otherwise), Storage Lands are going to be the focus for being able to interact with a deck casting a bunch of spells in one turn. If you play against aggro, Storage Lands force your opponent to either make plays or allow you to grow stronger by getting more out of your mana in each turn. And nothing helps the Teachings engine more than having a bunch of extra mana to dump into draw spells, tutors, and Teferi.
So (and this may come as a shock), I don't want to use Esper Charm anymore. I want 3-4 or possibly even more storage lands in my deck, and I want to be playing them on turn 2 as the focal point of my game plan. Esper Charm is still playable in a deck with storage lands, but it's a lot weaker when you are running a colorless land out on turn 2. There are other great draw spells available, and my current goal is to find one which is more compatible with Dreadship Reef/Calciform Pools. More on this, later.
I also want to find a solution for 12-Post Eldrazi, considering that it's the nightmare match-up for us. My initial perspective is that attacking the manabase is the most promising plan. Ghost Quarter/Tectonic Edge, Tolaria West, and either Loam or Crucible can help with this. Spreading Seas is a viable board card. Discard is another strong tool against this deck, but it doesn't solve topdecked aliens which do very relevant things in addition to being a threat you have to counter.
I honestly wonder if Cryptic Command should be partially or fully replaced with a spell that isn't so blue-intensive. I'm looking at 3-4 storage lands and probably 2-4 Wasteland variants in a ~26 land manabase. I know that Cryptic is really powerful, but it doesn't stop Eye of Ugin, Grove of the Burnwillow, Emeria, Crypt of Agadeem, or any other really dangerous land. Those seem to be pretty imporant, right now. I think I might honestly choose colorless lands over Cryptic Command, as a necessity for survival. I rarely use that card as a tap effect when I'm playing control (except against Elfball), so I think other counterspells and other bounce spells can probably fill its void. No, I'm not happy to put my Cryptic Commands on the shelf again, but it could simply be correct.
Hypothetically speaking, let's say that the manabase needs to play a bunch more colorless lands in order to keep dangerous lands in check. It might not be necessary, but in case it is...what happens to the deck without Cryptic Command? For starters, there are 4 less hard counters and 4 less bounce spells. That's obvious. Secondly, that's 4 less cards which are often 2-for-1s; Cryptic is actually built into the infrastructure of the draw suite. And because it cantrips, Cryptic Command is a very punishing answer. If someone plays a threat into a Cryptic, he's not only out his threat--he's now down a card from you. That's not necessary for a permission deck, but it sure makes things a lot easier. But let's just forget about the remorse and other negative emotions--if Cryptic isn't castable, then replacements must be found.
For bounce spells, we have Repeal and Into the Roil. Repeal is actually way better as a bounce spell than Cryptic, aside from being unable to hit lands. It only demands that you have one basic Island to clean up a Blood Moon...I like that a lot. Echoing Truth is a sideboard card that we've all probably used as at least a 1-of bullet, for those of us who played the Teachings deck in Extended last year. If Cryptic is taken out and we play less bounce spells in the maindeck, then more Echoing Truths in the board could be really strong.
Without Cryptic, there is open space for mana-intensive countermagic like Mindbreak Trap, Rewind, and Dismal Failure. Also, we could just play additional cheaper countermagic. 3-drops becom more viable--Faerie Trickery, Hinder, Cancel, Lapse of Certainty, etc. Condescend comes to mind. More Remands come to mind. Spell Burst seems a lot stronger without so many expensive counters alongside it.
Perhaps the most damaging loss without Cryptic is the combination of Card Advantage, countermagic, and bounce in a small corner of deck space. It's fine to have Repeal, Mindbreak Trap, and more draw spells, but the deck is only going to have 60 cards in it simultaneously. I could see some difficulty in spreading out those jobs to a number of different cards, but it's possible. Permission has existed before and after Cryptic Command, just as it has without Force of Will and Counterspell.
Let's look at draw spells.
Think Twice is acceptable. The speed is not a major issue for this type of deck, but I do not think that it's good to play too many graveyard-reliant cards. Running 3 Teachings and a Dralnu or a Loam is fine. Running 4 Think Twice and 3 Teachings will get you killed when someone pulls out the grave hate. If you don't think grave hate will be played, let me remind you that people were maindecking a Bojuka Bog in Zoo by the end of last season, and that was because it neutered opposing Knight of the Reliquary. I can assure you all that there are enough dangerous graveyard-based cards that people will be packing the hate, so I don't want to walk down this road.
Thirst for Knowledge would be perfect if we could play some artifact lands and/or Moxen. Those are all banned (and I'm not complaining at all), so Thirst is more of a cantrip than a raw draw spell, here. If we play a lot of Explosives and end up running some other artifacts in the main, then Thirst is the way to go. But otherwise, it isn't card advantage often enough to be reliable.
Gifts Ungiven is actually really good in this deck. It finds Teachings, and Teachings finds it. It dig up land drops, which is something that Teachings doesn't do (and the main reason that we play other draw spells in the deck). You can do a lot with Gifts, and there are enough different types of answers and what-not that you could realisically play Gifts within the confines of this deck shell. However, playing a bunch of 4-drop slow draw spells means you're either running acceleration or you're getting worked by tempo plays.
There's Jace's Ingenuity. I obviously love the card, but it's slower than Gifts. On the other hand, it produces more card advantage than Gifts does. I think Teachings decks will probably play 1-2 of them for when you Teachings-->draw spell.
Realms Uncharted is a thought. It does thin land out extremely efficiently, and I adore the thought of getting Storage Land, Wasteland effect, Academy Ruins, Manland and then eventually finding a Loam. It's a very elegant draw spell, though it is green.
What I've been working on is using the following combination of cards:
Hatching Plans
Perilous Research
Engineered Explosives
Flagstones of Trokair
Tolaria West
Plans+Research=draw 5 cards. That's serious raw power, and you are investing 4 mana over 2 installments...only one of which is at sorcery speed. That's definitely a good draw engine. The downside is when you have one without the other. To handle that problem, I have Engineered Explosives as a fundamental part of the answer suite and that gives another way to pop Hatching Plans in a pinch. For Perilous Research, the manabase runs Flagstones. Tolaria West ties things together by being a tutor for either Flagstones or Explosives...while this is obviously very slow, it means you almost always can find a way to draw more cards. I don't think that this is enough of a draw engine in total for the deck, so I like the idea of ~2 Teachings, Gifts Ungiven, Thirst for Knowledge, etc. to round out the deck. A Life from the Loam or Crucible of Worlds or two would tie a lot of things together--especially Loam (because of Tolaria West).
Playing Flagstones of Trokair also fuels the potential for a lot of maindecked Ghost Quarters. In case you haven't had the pleasure of seeing that interaction: you float a white with your Flagstones and then Ghost Quarter your own land, and this gives you any basic you want and any plains you want (usually a dual land). Pretty darn good synergy. Ghost Quarter is not going to be a straight-up Strip Mine against 12post because that deck definitely will run a good amount of basics, but blowing up the first Cloudpost has a profound effect on that deck. Vesuva sucks when there isn't a Post on the table, and playing a Glimmerpost doesn't ramp anymore without a Post. I like Tectonic Edge, but Ghost Quarter can handle lands when your opponent has less than 4, and it doesn't require any extra mana to activate. It's also not too embarassing to GQ your own non-Flagtones land so that you can tutor up any color basic you need, if you're anticipating a Blood Moon or you want to find that third color or another blue source, etc. And if you mix in Aven Mindcensor or some kind of graveyard recursion, it becomes even deadlier.
Tomorrow, I'm leaving for a camping trip, so I'll be without internet for almost 2 weeks. I hope I've left enough here to really stir up some discussion.
Except one of the those gets recurred with academy ruins and can kill Knight of the Reliquary and Tarmogoyf
Also if you want a card for 12 post, Aven Mindsenser has been sick. But of course that is only for esper versions. But hey, firespout and punishing fire is good magics. Right?
Agreed. I am completely hosing all other control decks, and most Aggro decks. Cryptic plays a HUGE part here and I wouldn't dream of going bellow 4. The tap ability can save you in the Aggro MU, and is useful every once in a while vs other decks (tap a grave Titan and tokens?) The bounce also is great vs PWs and Pyromancer.
The pyro MU is so in our favor it's insane. I run 8 hard counters for it, plus 4 mana leak, plus 4 Esper charm (destroys one that resolves). Then you get to sb in Pierce over PtE...
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I read your gigantic post, and I have to say, I could definitely get behind Rewind over Cryptic Command.
Both are Card advantage. Rewind is in most cases as good as skipping your opponents turn while having mana up for Teachings.
Cryptic shines in its versatility. It is literally 4 good blue cards rolled into one. And the reasons for playing it are obvious enough.
However, what if, instead of 4 cryptics, you went to 3 Rewinds and 1 Cryptic, a tutorable, jack of all trades card?
idk, its an idea though.
I am not worried about Pyromancer Ascension because there will be bounce spells and Explosives in my main deck, along with storage lands and Spell Snare. You dont need Esper Charm on top of all that...Permission is going to win that war.
Honestly, I don't want to cut Cryptic Command and Esper Charm from this deck. I'm suggesting that they might not be as important as utility lands. There are other counterspells, other bounce spells, and other draw spells. Dreadship Reef and Ghost Quarter are unique in their jobs.
I like a tutorable Cryptic quite a bit.
What wincing are people running? I have:
1 Sphinx of Jwar Ilse
1 Grave Titan
EDIT: I dont this Reef is really worth it. I don't see much utility out of that card except maybe the control mirror? No other MU takes enough turns to save a noticeable amount of mana
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When the deck was in standard, Rewind was basically a Timewalk. Your opponent didn't do anything, and at the end of turn you get to Teachings for whatever they tried to do. That is why it was good.
Part of that is because you've become reliant on Command. Which could mean your Teachings toolbox is underdeveloped. Command's purpose is really as a "catch-all" answer with a cantrip as a bonus.
And if you are worried about drawing cards, Careful Consideration and Thirst for Knowledge are both in the format, and are both instant speed. Besides, you should be running 4 Remands + 2 Think Twice, if not 4 Esper charm as well, if you have white. I don't see how Command's cantrip is a loss in this deck.
You don't play Command to draw a card. You have better cards for that. Think about it.
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Also are you suggesting that we brew some type of bug still-esque deck? Seems interesting, but what would the main colors be other than U and G/W?
I'm never dropping a single cryptic ever.
I will say that the single storage land has won me several games and is extremely powerful and shouldn't be taken lightly.
I want to fit a second one in. Its really great vs dragonstorm, 12post, mirror. The only problem I have with it is that it isn't very good against aggro and that is what is dominating the field right now. Thus the right number is 1-2. Just in my opinion ofcourse.
Also if anyone is having trouble with 12post sowing salt with 4 mindbreak traps(you have to play this anyway for storm) is ridiculous.
First of all, I think you're disregarding the fact that I have played Cryptic Command for several years. I know how good the card is.
Second, I think you're forgetting that plenty of full-on permission decks have flourished without the ability to play Cryptic Command because it wasn't legal in the format. Mystical Teachings was in its hey-day before the command was even printed.
Rewind actually is more of a blowout against aggro than Cryptic Command is. Your opponent casts a creature, which gets countered for free. Then he tries to run another threat out there, and that gets hit by a 2-mana counter. Then you play a spot removal spell. Or you follow your Rewind up with a mid-combat Teferi and eat a creature for breakfast. Or you Rewind into a draw spell. Cryptic Command is an amazing card, but Rewind is no slouch. Rewind could teach Cryptic a thing or two about handling Gigadrowse and mana rituals. So could Mindbreak Trap.
If I'm able to play a more sophisticated manabase in order to solve advance metagame problems, but the cost is cutting Cryptic Command, then I'm cutting Cryptic Command for the greater good of my deckbuilding strategy. No sacred cows.
I don't think Jwar Isle is necessary for this deck because you should be casting a threat at instant speed, in most cases. Basically, you don't need to win the game quickly because your deck is supposed to have inevitability on every other deck in the room. If your deck doesn't have inevitability, then that needs to be fixed. Jwar Isle has only done wonderful things for me in the time that I've used it, but for this deck, it's better to play something more explosive. Your plan is to play the creature with Teferi out, so you're going to untap with it before he can play his removal spells. That makes Baneslayer a lot more reliable than it usually is. I think that utility creatures are also really important to consider as finishers. Crovax shuts down a number of annoyances, though it's probably more of a board card these days. Dralnu is always really good here, because you're going to be able to untap with it 90% of the time and that means it can flashback a counterspell to protect itself. I like Grave Titan, too, as well as Vengeful Pharoah.
Personally, right now I'm using 2 Teferis and a Windreaver or two in my maindeck. I am unsure of whether I want to stick with 2-3 Teachings in my deck, or if there is a better draw spell to supplement my Hatching Plans engine. Yes, I know that this is the Teachings thread, but I'm not committed to Teachings as a card so far. I'm committed to storage lands, Spell Snare, Rune Snag, and Explosives. Everything else is being scrutinized. If I play Teachings in my control deck, I'll probably end up running a Dralnu and at least boarding a Crovax. If I commit to black as a splash, I will definitely board 4 Death's Shadow for aggressive decks.
IF! (big if) spell snare becomes no longer needed, I would advocate Spellstutter Sprite in it's place. 1/1 beater that counters a Kird Ape? Sounds Great.
The more I think about it, the better Rewind sounds. I would still run one Command as a tutorable catch all, similar to Pact of Negation, but Rewind makes a lot of sense.
Counter whatever Zoo drops, kill a creature with Doom Blade/Path to Exile, and Teachings at the end of their turn? That sounds a lot better than "Tap all your doods, I draw a card."
2 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
1 Sphinx of Jwar Isle
1 Grave Titan
3 Mystical Teachings
Counters:
3 Spell Snare
4 Rune Snag
4 Remand
4 Cryptic Command
Removal:
3 Path to Exile
2 Doom Blade
2 Think Twice
3 Esper Charm
Toolbox:
1 Extirpate
1 Pulse of the Fields
1 Consume the Meek
Lands:
4 Marsh Flats
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Watery Grave
2 Glacial Fortress
2 Drowned Catacomb
1 Arcane Sanctum
2 Mystic Gate
2 Sunken Ruins
1 Plains
3 Island
1 Swamp
EDIT: Being a slow typed sucks. Ok, I see several points. What if I replaced 3 Command with 2 Rewind and a Pact? Pact of Negation seems like a really strong choice. What else do you guys have in the toolbox? I suppose I could also replace a filter or two with Reefs.
I will test BSA over sphinx, but shins is just sooooo good :/
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1) The cantrip doesn't make Cryptic good. Counter + Teachings is better than Counter + Draw.
2) I think you could use a few more cards in your toolbox. I generally use 5-7 one-ofs.
3)I would say Wurmcoil is good, because it stops aggro dead. I can't comment on Baneslayer Angel because I don't use her.
Spell Snare is best in a format with a lot of 2 drops. In this format, the only real 2 drops that you have to worry about are Dark Confidant, Arcbound Ravager, Tarmogoyf, Cranial Plating, and Spellstutter Sprite.
Everything esle is 1 mana or 3 mana (or less, in the case of Affinity.) So I could definitely see Spell Snare usage drop.
HOWEVER!
Spell Snare + Storage lands are needed in the mirror match. Teachings vs Teachings comes down to "Who is ballsy enough to play Teferi first?" Thus the counter war ensues, and Spell Snare is amazing at that.
I took the card out after the first day of playing with it.
Everytime I lost to zoo I looked at my hand and there was always a spellsnare.
Took the card out and my win percentage went up immediately problem solved.
ALL of those goofy little creatures you just told me it counters can be killed with punishing fire.
EDIT: @Earthbound. No Spell Snare isn't good in the mirror. You obviously aren't playing logic knot. Now that card blows out the mirror.
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If you are going to play Esper Charm, don't screw around. Play 4 of them. I think that 4 Charms, 3 Teachings, and 1-2 Ingenuities is correct for that type of build.
From my experience, Marsh Flats and non-Island basics don't belong in the deck. You want fetchlands to either get a dual land of the correct color or you want it to get a basic Island. If a Blood Moon hits, forget about the Swamp or plains. You want more Islands so you can cast your bounce spells. I also like Godless Shrine over Arcane Sanctum, even without Godless Shrine being fetch-able. It rounds out the manabase with more sources of each splash color, and it can cast 1-mana black or white spells. It doesn't need to tap for blue because it already can contribute to Esper Charm and you should be able to cast Cryptic Command with most combinations of 3 other lands in your deck. So the option to come into play untapped is a pretty nifty one, for Godless Shrine.
Manabases are extremely important and very difficult to fine-tune. The more I build decks, the more I find myself working on the lands with a higher priority over anything else.
Edit: Wow, this thread has exploded with activity. It's hard to keep up with the post speed.
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