This is the version I'll be testing. The landbase isn't bad; however I'll be dropping a swamp for a Watery Grave when I get my hands on one. Burn, Zoo, and Affinity are prevalent in my meta, so I'm hoping that the Spellstutter Sprites will work well. Thoughts?
One question: have you ever attacked with a Celestial Colonnade in this deck? If you have, I suppose it's a keeper. Otherwise, all it does is ETB tapped, so Mystic Gates would be better instead.
I tested a couple or games vs Past in Flames and it seems like a difficult matchup. Thoughts?
run moar discard and less counterspells. Have a way to replace all of your removal with discard or counterspells for the sideboard.
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In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
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Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
Targeted discard with Extirpate/Surgical Extraction ruins them Game 1 unless they run both Grapeshot and Empty the Warrens. Game 2-3, it depends on their sideboard. Board in Mindbreak Traps for security. Since they probably run EtW in their 75, the Surgical Extraction trick won't work so well anymore. If they run Gigadrowse and a storage land, it's a race--a race you might lose. If they run Kiln Fiend and you boarded out removal, counter the Fiend at all costs or suddenly get it blocked with Tiago, Creeping Tar Pit, or Vendilion Clique. If they run Bob...they might be able to pull it off the second or third time, but the race will be much shorter, at least.
Trickbind off the side will pretty much ruin any storm players day as well. Mindbreak Trap is good too. I totally forgot about them playing Gigadrowse.
Counterspells beat the hell out of Storm if you know what you're doing. Discard is actually only good when combined with grave hate, now that they have a Yawgmoth's Will.
-----I've found that dissipate is very good against them if you can draw it then all you need is to counter their past in flames if they have it. If they don't then they can just spit out tokens or burn us to death, however if it's past turn five or so when can beat all of these plans with teachings for dissipate, rest for the weary, or echoing truth/consume the meek. (dissipate plan has to be turn 7 or so but we can delay them both literally (with delay) and also with discard (to slow the down and gain information on their plan route) and counter magic.
Rest beats the grapeshot, truth/consume beats goblins, dissipate beats their flashback. And then a followup extirpate effect will just win the game. The trick is to make sure they can't combo until later.------
Not the most reliable advise since I've only played against storm with flames 3-4 times my local store (1 guy) so I may be very wrong.
Also, I'm actually really liking the ravenous trap I put in against gifts ungiven. They go for their control package, it can resolve, then gifts resolves and bam! three cards in yard. Then you exile their graveyard along with their best cards against you. (its still not good but much better than some alternatives).
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Ravenous Trap is worth running in the board as a 1-of, simply because of the fact that it almost beats any graveyard deck by itself. Teachings-->Ravenous Trap can be done when your opponent dredges a Loam in his draw step or when he casts a Past in Flames, etc. No matter what your build of Teachings is, I recommend an Extirpate/Surgical Extraction in the main and a Ravenous Trap in the board.
I find that Remand is fantastic against storm combo. Having Rune Snag and Remand in the same deck (along with a 1-of Negate) gives you that consistent turn 2 generic counterspell to keep yourself safe. When your opponent goes off, you let him play one ritual, then Remand the second one and get a 2-for-1. Or you let him play 1-2 rits and Remand the PIF when he has only 0-1 mana available. On top of this, Remand on a flashback spell is a straight-up 2-mana Dismiss. Snare+Remand is pretty sweet vs Ravings too, when the situation arrives.
Generally speaking, if you want to beat PIF storm, you want the following:
-Spell Snare, which stops the 2-mana rituals, Pyromancer Ascension, Kiln Fiend (post-board), Ravings, Goblin Lore, Peer Through Depths, Remand, Ideas Unbound.
-A plan for their anti-countermagic plans post-board. Usually, these involve Gigadrowse+Storage lands, Dispel, Pact of Negation, and Vendilion Clique. The best answer to Gigadrowse is to play Rewind/Trickbind and your own storage lands. The best solution to Dispel and Pact of Negation is to make sure you can cast multiple disruptive spells (countermagic/grave hate/whatever) in one turn, or to stick a Teferi. And the best plan for Vendilion Clique is to make sure you have multiple redundant answers in your hand for the cycling effect, and then later you have a plan to deal with the 3/1 itself after 1-3 turns of swinging (because honestly, a good player will play one of these when it's either going to resolve or you're going to pay for tapping out to counter it on your turn).
-You should also have a solution for resolved threats. The major ones are Pyromancer Ascension, an Empty the Warrens swarm, and Blood Moon. Echoing Truth answers all of these and has implications for basically any other token swarm/dangerous bomb (including planeswalkers), so you should definitely have one in your 75. Other good answers for these problems are Engineered Explosives, Repeal, and Consume the Meek--depending on the threat at hand. When you board, try to have a plan for those times when your opponent decides to forgo the typical storm combo plan, and instead rolls out turn 2 Rit, Rit, Song, ETW for 8. You can't always have the turn 1 disruption to stop that plan and you can't always stop it from happening, but having more outs is never a bad thing...bear this in mind when putting together a board and a board-plan.
Ravenous Trap is worth running in the board as a 1-of, simply because of the fact that it almost beats any graveyard deck by itself. Teachings-->Ravenous Trap can be done when your opponent dredges a Loam in his draw step or when he casts a Past in Flames, etc. No matter what your build of Teachings is, I recommend an Extirpate/Surgical Extraction in the main and a Ravenous Trap in the board.
I find that Remand is fantastic against storm combo. Having Rune Snag and Remand in the same deck (along with a 1-of Negate) gives you that consistent turn 2 generic counterspell to keep yourself safe. When your opponent goes off, you let him play one ritual, then Remand the second one and get a 2-for-1. Or you let him play 1-2 rits and Remand the PIF when he has only 0-1 mana available. On top of this, Remand on a flashback spell is a straight-up 2-mana Dismiss. Snare+Remand is pretty sweet vs Ravings too, when the situation arrives.
Generally speaking, if you want to beat PIF storm, you want the following:
-Spell Snare, which stops the 2-mana rituals, Pyromancer Ascension, Kiln Fiend (post-board), Ravings, Goblin Lore, Peer Through Depths, Remand, Ideas Unbound.
-A plan for their anti-countermagic plans post-board. Usually, these involve Gigadrowse+Storage lands, Dispel, Pact of Negation, and Vendilion Clique. The best answer to Gigadrowse is to play Rewind/Trickbind and your own storage lands. The best solution to Dispel and Pact of Negation is to make sure you can cast multiple disruptive spells (countermagic/grave hate/whatever) in one turn, or to stick a Teferi. And the best plan for Vendilion Clique is to make sure you have multiple redundant answers in your hand for the cycling effect, and then later you have a plan to deal with the 3/1 itself after 1-3 turns of swinging (because honestly, a good player will play one of these when it's either going to resolve or you're going to pay for tapping out to counter it on your turn).
-You should also have a solution for resolved threats. The major ones are Pyromancer Ascension, an Empty the Warrens swarm, and Blood Moon. Echoing Truth answers all of these and has implications for basically any other token swarm/dangerous bomb (including planeswalkers), so you should definitely have one in your 75. Other good answers for these problems are Engineered Explosives, Repeal, and Consume the Meek--depending on the threat at hand. When you board, try to have a plan for those times when your opponent decides to forgo the typical storm combo plan, and instead rolls out turn 2 Rit, Rit, Song, ETW for 8. You can't always have the turn 1 disruption to stop that plan and you can't always stop it from happening, but having more outs is never a bad thing...bear this in mind when putting together a board and a board-plan.
Thanks, this was very helpful. I'm already 1 of remanding, mana leaking, and 1 of spell snaring which has been OK. The hands are just so fickle with this deck with such a high end I feel like I'm forced to mulligan a lot. And good hands against zoo and combo and control are so different it seems like gambling to keep some hands game one.
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Ravenous Trap is worth running in the board as a 1-of, simply because of the fact that it almost beats any graveyard deck by itself. Teachings-->Ravenous Trap can be done when your opponent dredges a Loam in his draw step or when he casts a Past in Flames, etc. No matter what your build of Teachings is, I recommend an Extirpate/Surgical Extraction in the main and a Ravenous Trap in the board.
I find that Remand is fantastic against storm combo. Having Rune Snag and Remand in the same deck (along with a 1-of Negate) gives you that consistent turn 2 generic counterspell to keep yourself safe. When your opponent goes off, you let him play one ritual, then Remand the second one and get a 2-for-1. Or you let him play 1-2 rits and Remand the PIF when he has only 0-1 mana available. On top of this, Remand on a flashback spell is a straight-up 2-mana Dismiss. Snare+Remand is pretty sweet vs Ravings too, when the situation arrives.
Generally speaking, if you want to beat PIF storm, you want the following:
-Spell Snare, which stops the 2-mana rituals, Pyromancer Ascension, Kiln Fiend (post-board), Ravings, Goblin Lore, Peer Through Depths, Remand, Ideas Unbound.
-A plan for their anti-countermagic plans post-board. Usually, these involve Gigadrowse+Storage lands, Dispel, Pact of Negation, and Vendilion Clique. The best answer to Gigadrowse is to play Rewind/Trickbind and your own storage lands. The best solution to Dispel and Pact of Negation is to make sure you can cast multiple disruptive spells (countermagic/grave hate/whatever) in one turn, or to stick a Teferi. And the best plan for Vendilion Clique is to make sure you have multiple redundant answers in your hand for the cycling effect, and then later you have a plan to deal with the 3/1 itself after 1-3 turns of swinging (because honestly, a good player will play one of these when it's either going to resolve or you're going to pay for tapping out to counter it on your turn).
-You should also have a solution for resolved threats. The major ones are Pyromancer Ascension, an Empty the Warrens swarm, and Blood Moon. Echoing Truth answers all of these and has implications for basically any other token swarm/dangerous bomb (including planeswalkers), so you should definitely have one in your 75. Other good answers for these problems are Engineered Explosives, Repeal, and Consume the Meek--depending on the threat at hand. When you board, try to have a plan for those times when your opponent decides to forgo the typical storm combo plan, and instead rolls out turn 2 Rit, Rit, Song, ETW for 8. You can't always have the turn 1 disruption to stop that plan and you can't always stop it from happening, but having more outs is never a bad thing...bear this in mind when putting together a board and a board-plan.
All of what I Never Smile is saying is spot on in my experience. I've had varied results with spell snare (when it's really good, it is amazing), but otherwise everything is spot on.
I played in a decent sized modern tourney last weekend (35-40 people) and pulled out an undefeated 5-round swiss with a T2 split with a friend, but I have a few more insights on teachings in general. My list is pretty typical, other than the fact that it's meta adjusted with 4 Path, 3 Smother, 1 Doomblade, 1 Consume the Meek, 2 Damnation mainboard. I'm playing Inquisition, but that was it for discard.
I'll do short talks about the even 5 rounds and the t8 matches. I'm a little foggy and obviously didn't take super notes.
Round 1 (2-0): Mono White Soul Sisters
Annoying round. I had known that lifegain decks were being played (2 or 3 guys rocked them) and I figured I'd play a couple drownyards just to give me something to beat them with if they could go off with life. My removal combined with drowning worked out well enough. I was just lucky to see them and then 2-0'ed with a mill in extra turns of the second game.
Round 2: CFB Zoo (2-1)
Pretty straightforward here. I killed creatures, teachings for rest for the weary, and eventually got there with a creeping tar pit. G2 I lost strictly to a shaky keep (I should have mulliganned) and being immensely land light.
Round 3: "Big" Zoo (2-0)
All I have written on my notes for this round is "rage." This guy, in g1, raged at me. I saw 2 Path to Exile and my 3 smother by t4-5 in this one. A Tarpit got there eventually in both games. It was an unpleasant round for sure. The guy wouldn't stop talking about how bad my deck was and how I didn't have skill. Rest for the Weary was an allstar once again. 16 life is just nothing to scoff at against zoo.
Round 4: Twinning (2-1)
Normal twin games. Game 1 he had a nuts hand where he was able to go off through a bunch of disruption. G2 and G3 were pretty elementary. I was able to surgical both pestermite and deceiver in game 2 which was pretty fun. T1 inquistion + surgical on deceiver. Then on t4 he went for it again and I smothered the pestermite, into snapcaster surgical since he was tapped out and I was on the play. Ultimately, I had a pretty sweet hand (I have two surgicals post board) for the opener, but he was a very good sport about it.
Round 5: Teachings (2-0)
I got paired with this guy who wanted to draw into the top 8. I told him that I wasn't keen on drawing knowing that I had a chance of not having to play this guy again in the top 8. Needless to say not the biggest fan of the guy. Of course this sort of tilted him, but ultimately, in spite of him playing very slow, I was able to get two drownyards active in both games and end him promptly.
Top 8 Quarters: "Big" Zoo (2-0)
Our rage friend was back. He was once again angry, and once again complained about the match the entire time. The first game he had me at 6 life and I had the natural draw Rest for the Weary, so I went fetch rest for 8, snap, rest for 8 his EOT to go back to 21 life. More comments about how I was a bad player followed me to the Semis.
Top 8 Semifinals: Melira Pod (2-1)
This was the closest match of the day. I feel like being on the play for two games really paid off as I was able to strip accelerants in both games that I was on the play and ultimately counter a pod and kill other relevant things. It was terribly close though and I felt like if the deck becomes more popular I would need more then just removal and some Shadow of Doubt in the Sideboard. It seems like Aven Mindscensor wouldn't be bad against them either I suppose.
Top 8 Finals: Teachings Split
I ended up splitting the 1st place with my friend who was also on my Teachings list. For what it's worth he lost once in the swiss I think.
All in all it was a great tourney that was full of smothering Goyfs and Angry Mountain Cats for most of the day. I'm interested to see what the Dec. banlist will bring. In my opinion, Zoo is manageable if you prepare for it. I won't complain if they ban something from it (like kitty), because it will make the matchup that much better and allow some space to shore up other matchups. As it is, I'm confident that I will be PTQ'ing with Teachings, especially if Zoo is top cat.
All of what I Never Smile is saying is spot on in my experience. I've had varied results with spell snare (when it's really good, it is amazing), but otherwise everything is spot on.
I played in a decent sized modern tourney last weekend (35-40 people) and pulled out an undefeated 5-round swiss with a T2 split with a friend, but I have a few more insights on teachings in general. My list is pretty typical, other than the fact that it's meta adjusted with 4 Path, 3 Smother, 1 Doomblade, 1 Consume the Meek, 2 Damnation mainboard. I'm playing Inquisition, but that was it for discard.
I'll do short talks about the even 5 rounds and the t8 matches. I'm a little foggy and obviously didn't take super notes.
Round 1 (2-0): Mono White Soul Sisters
Annoying round. I had known that lifegain decks were being played (2 or 3 guys rocked them) and I figured I'd play a couple drownyards just to give me something to beat them with if they could go off with life. My removal combined with drowning worked out well enough. I was just lucky to see them and then 2-0'ed with a mill in extra turns of the second game.
Round 2: CFB Zoo (2-1)
Pretty straightforward here. I killed creatures, teachings for rest for the weary, and eventually got there with a creeping tar pit. G2 I lost strictly to a shaky keep (I should have mulliganned) and being immensely land light.
Round 3: "Big" Zoo (2-0)
All I have written on my notes for this round is "rage." This guy, in g1, raged at me. I saw 2 Path to Exile and my 3 smother by t4-5 in this one. A Tarpit got there eventually in both games. It was an unpleasant round for sure. The guy wouldn't stop talking about how bad my deck was and how I didn't have skill. Rest for the Weary was an allstar once again. 16 life is just nothing to scoff at against zoo.
Round 4: Twinning (2-1)
Normal twin games. Game 1 he had a nuts hand where he was able to go off through a bunch of disruption. G2 and G3 were pretty elementary. I was able to surgical both pestermite and deceiver in game 2 which was pretty fun. T1 inquistion + surgical on deceiver. Then on t4 he went for it again and I smothered the pestermite, into snapcaster surgical since he was tapped out and I was on the play. Ultimately, I had a pretty sweet hand (I have two surgicals post board) for the opener, but he was a very good sport about it.
Round 5: Teachings (2-0)
I got paired with this guy who wanted to draw into the top 8. I told him that I wasn't keen on drawing knowing that I had a chance of not having to play this guy again in the top 8. Needless to say not the biggest fan of the guy. Of course this sort of tilted him, but ultimately, in spite of him playing very slow, I was able to get two drownyards active in both games and end him promptly.
Top 8 Quarters: "Big" Zoo (2-0)
Our rage friend was back. He was once again angry, and once again complained about the match the entire time. The first game he had me at 6 life and I had the natural draw Rest for the Weary, so I went fetch rest for 8, snap, rest for 8 his EOT to go back to 21 life. More comments about how I was a bad player followed me to the Semis.
Top 8 Semifinals: Melira Pod (2-1)
This was the closest match of the day. I feel like being on the play for two games really paid off as I was able to strip accelerants in both games that I was on the play and ultimately counter a pod and kill other relevant things. It was terribly close though and I felt like if the deck becomes more popular I would need more then just removal and some Shadow of Doubt in the Sideboard. It seems like Aven Mindscensor wouldn't be bad against them either I suppose.
Top 8 Finals: Teachings Split
I ended up splitting the 1st place with my friend who was also on my Teachings list. For what it's worth he lost once in the swiss I think.
All in all it was a great tourney that was full of smothering Goyfs and Angry Mountain Cats for most of the day. I'm interested to see what the Dec. banlist will bring. In my opinion, Zoo is manageable if you prepare for it. I won't complain if they ban something from it (like kitty), because it will make the matchup that much better and allow some space to shore up other matchups. As it is, I'm confident that I will be PTQ'ing with Teachings, especially if Zoo is top cat.
deck list?
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I choose Dreadship Reef over Esper Charm. Storage Lands are irreplaceable in a permission deck. I also play Dralnu over Snapcaster because it takes up only one deck slot (as opposed to 3-4), Snapcaster's body is terrible, and flashing back one or two paltry spells is nothing compared to having access to the entire basement (especially if Minamo comes into play).
I don't think running 3 colors is an issue, but I'm not sure white is the way to go (Path is really the only desired tool from that color for me, though it is pretty darn amazing). Either way, this isn't exactly Esper Teachings because it doesn't play Esper Charm--but you asked, so there's the list.
All of what I Never Smile is saying is spot on in my experience. I've had varied results with spell snare (when it's really good, it is amazing), but otherwise everything is spot on.
I played in a decent sized modern tourney last weekend (35-40 people) and pulled out an undefeated 5-round swiss with a T2 split with a friend, but I have a few more insights on teachings in general. My list is pretty typical, other than the fact that it's meta adjusted with 4 Path, 3 Smother, 1 Doomblade, 1 Consume the Meek, 2 Damnation mainboard. I'm playing Inquisition, but that was it for discard.
I'll do short talks about the even 5 rounds and the t8 matches. I'm a little foggy and obviously didn't take super notes.
Round 1 (2-0): Mono White Soul Sisters
Annoying round. I had known that lifegain decks were being played (2 or 3 guys rocked them) and I figured I'd play a couple drownyards just to give me something to beat them with if they could go off with life. My removal combined with drowning worked out well enough. I was just lucky to see them and then 2-0'ed with a mill in extra turns of the second game.
Round 2: CFB Zoo (2-1)
Pretty straightforward here. I killed creatures, teachings for rest for the weary, and eventually got there with a creeping tar pit. G2 I lost strictly to a shaky keep (I should have mulliganned) and being immensely land light.
Round 3: "Big" Zoo (2-0)
All I have written on my notes for this round is "rage." This guy, in g1, raged at me. I saw 2 Path to Exile and my 3 smother by t4-5 in this one. A Tarpit got there eventually in both games. It was an unpleasant round for sure. The guy wouldn't stop talking about how bad my deck was and how I didn't have skill. Rest for the Weary was an allstar once again. 16 life is just nothing to scoff at against zoo.
Round 4: Twinning (2-1)
Normal twin games. Game 1 he had a nuts hand where he was able to go off through a bunch of disruption. G2 and G3 were pretty elementary. I was able to surgical both pestermite and deceiver in game 2 which was pretty fun. T1 inquistion + surgical on deceiver. Then on t4 he went for it again and I smothered the pestermite, into snapcaster surgical since he was tapped out and I was on the play. Ultimately, I had a pretty sweet hand (I have two surgicals post board) for the opener, but he was a very good sport about it.
Round 5: Teachings (2-0)
I got paired with this guy who wanted to draw into the top 8. I told him that I wasn't keen on drawing knowing that I had a chance of not having to play this guy again in the top 8. Needless to say not the biggest fan of the guy. Of course this sort of tilted him, but ultimately, in spite of him playing very slow, I was able to get two drownyards active in both games and end him promptly.
Top 8 Quarters: "Big" Zoo (2-0)
Our rage friend was back. He was once again angry, and once again complained about the match the entire time. The first game he had me at 6 life and I had the natural draw Rest for the Weary, so I went fetch rest for 8, snap, rest for 8 his EOT to go back to 21 life. More comments about how I was a bad player followed me to the Semis.
Top 8 Semifinals: Melira Pod (2-1)
This was the closest match of the day. I feel like being on the play for two games really paid off as I was able to strip accelerants in both games that I was on the play and ultimately counter a pod and kill other relevant things. It was terribly close though and I felt like if the deck becomes more popular I would need more then just removal and some Shadow of Doubt in the Sideboard. It seems like Aven Mindscensor wouldn't be bad against them either I suppose.
Top 8 Finals: Teachings Split
I ended up splitting the 1st place with my friend who was also on my Teachings list. For what it's worth he lost once in the swiss I think.
All in all it was a great tourney that was full of smothering Goyfs and Angry Mountain Cats for most of the day. I'm interested to see what the Dec. banlist will bring. In my opinion, Zoo is manageable if you prepare for it. I won't complain if they ban something from it (like kitty), because it will make the matchup that much better and allow some space to shore up other matchups. As it is, I'm confident that I will be PTQ'ing with Teachings, especially if Zoo is top cat.
Great job! If I may, how many counterspells do you run, zero? You didn't mention any in the report. I've been having some problems running them against zoo or not running them against control/combo. Or are you just playing the heavy discard worlds list?
How are the drownyards, do they hurt the esper charm manabase or are they alright? They seem good in the mirror ;).
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Would a 1-of knowledge pool be too janky? Eot stick teferi, untap and stick knowledge pool for a hard lock, seems fun. Teferi is easy to find so it's just kind of an oops I win when you draw the pool. Just a thought
Edit: I guess it's hard like steel, not like diamond. If they have some on-board way to remove Teferi or Knowledge Pool (or win the game) they can get out of it, of course.
Would a 1-of knowledge pool be too janky? Eot stick teferi, untap and stick knowledge pool for a hard lock, seems fun. Teferi is easy to find so it's just kind of an oops I win when you draw the pool. Just a thought
Not sure I'd call that a "hard lock", but give it a shot. If it would be good anywhere, it would be good in the mirror match.
Would a 1-of knowledge pool be too janky? Eot stick teferi, untap and stick knowledge pool for a hard lock, seems fun. Teferi is easy to find so it's just kind of an oops I win when you draw the pool. Just a thought
Edit: I guess it's hard like steel, not like diamond. If they have some on-board way to remove Teferi or Knowledge Pool (or win the game) they can get out of it, of course.
I guess I should dispel this. NO....
6 mana artifacts that don't win you the game by themselves are bad. Matter of fact 3 mana artifacts(like swords) that don't win you the game by themselves is bad.
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In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
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Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
6 mana artifacts that don't win you the game by themselves are bad. Matter of fact 3 mana artifacts(like swords) that don't win you the game by themselves is bad.
Actually I'm quite happy to play some some swords in legacy with some stoneforge mystics and by that I mean as a 1 of, in correlation with a certain 5 mana artifact.
But in modern with no searching and costing 6 and having to hardcast, this seems very bad. AND it doesn't affect the board.
your hand:
1 knowledge pool
1 teferi, mage of zhalfir
1 mana leak/spell snare/extirpate/mystical teachings/consume the meek/slow card
1 esper charm
3 land
generic zoo player hand:
2 wild nacatl
1 kird ape
1 lightning bolt
3 land
who wins?
Also, slipknot you cannotdispel a knowledge pool, it's an artifact. That would be a misplay in my opinion.
I'd take out 2 piracy charm and an evacuation. I'd add some smother and maybe an extirpate/surgical extraction. How have the charms/evacuation been, worthy or not? They seem pretty bad to me, but I suppose they're good vs. clique, snapcaster, bob, and things.
Alright people my main question is: how bad do the colorless lands mess with your mana. it's pretty hard to actually test it out because of the small number of them, but how bad are they in your opener generally? Worth it or not?
Anyway, I like the ghost quarter and drownyard but I think I'd rather play out the tec edge (better vs. control) than the ghost quarter, but drownyard seems sweet
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I would keep the colorless lands down to as few as possible. Especially if you run cryptic or esper charm.
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In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
I'd take out 2 piracy charm and an evacuation. I'd add some smother and maybe an extirpate/surgical extraction. How have the charms/evacuation been, worthy or not? They seem pretty bad to me, but I suppose they're good vs. clique, snapcaster, bob, and things.
Alright people my main question is: how bad do the colorless lands mess with your mana. it's pretty hard to actually test it out because of the small number of them, but how bad are they in your opener generally? Worth it or not?
Anyway, I like the ghost quarter and drownyard but I think I'd rather play out the tec edge (better vs. control) than the ghost quarter, but drownyard seems sweet
To your main question: It really depends on your meta and depends on your deck. My area is dominated by Affinity and Zoo (they make up just over 70% of the meta together), so I'm more worried about Inkmoth Nexus and cutting them off of Domain than I am worried about the mirror. Also, in a pinch, I have Ghost Quartered myself for that third source of white or blue. That said, if you're running a very color-light list (or a very large amount of Shocklands), Drownyard is the bee's knees- especially if you're running Grim Harvest as a way to keep your Snapcasters on the field. My rule of thumb for running colorless lands is this: No more than 4 if you have fetches, no more than 6 if your don't.
@ the rest: You're right, I should fit in a couple Smothers. I probably should move the Shadow of Doubt to the sideboard, but the Piracy Charms are staying- they've been pretty clutch over all. Not only do they snipe all the X/1's in the format (Tiago, Bob, Clique, Hierarch, Lynx, Skirge, Pestermite, Mindcensor, and whatnot), they are phenomenal at punishing Zoo and Affinity for overextending (Piracy Charm for that Elspeth you were slow-rolling around my 'counters'? Yes please!), they work really, really well with Evacuation (as does most instant-speed discard), and I've actually won games off of them by using them to push the last 2 damage through on the back of a Tar Pit or a Cat before a Storm player could combo out.
I would keep the colorless lands down to as few as possible. Especially if you run cryptic or esper charm.
And White Sun's Zenith, which is a beast. So I need consistent triple Blue, triple White, and WBU. I might try to fit in Phyrexian Obliterator just so I can build the ultimate elastic manabase.
That said, I've been pleasantly surprised by my manabase. It's been quite good to me.
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2 Plains
2 Island
2 Swamp
4 Marsh Flats
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Watery Grave
1 Godless Shrine
3 Mystic Gate
3 Isolated Chapel
1 Arcane Sanctum
1 Creeping Tar Pit
Creatures:
3 Snapcaster Mage
1 Vendilion Clique
4 Esper Charm
4 Mana Leak
4 Path to Exile
3 Mystical Teachings
3 Cryptic Command
1 Rest for the Weary
1 Consume the Meek
1 White Sun's Zenith
1 Pact of Negation
1 Sudden Death
1 Extirpate
Sorceries:
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Wrath of God
Artifacts:
1 Batterskull
2 Hibernation
2 Flashfreeze
2 Celestial Purge
2 Timely Reinforcements
2 Circle of Protection: Red
1 Tribute to Hunger
1 Fracturing Gust
1 Ravenous Trap
1 Sudden Death
1 Wrath of God
Yet another update. Agree with Inquisition and Rest for the Weary. Thinking about switching to Teferi.
But not really playing much Magic right now. Kind of hate this game, atm.
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Spellstutter Sprite
Other Spells (26)
4 Esper Charm
4 Mystical Teachings
4 Path to Exile
1 Cryptic Command
1 Familiar's Ruse
1 Mana Leak
1 Rest for the Weary
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Smother
1 Sudden Death
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Thoughtseize
2 Wrath of God
3 Marsh Flats
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Godless Shrine
2 Fetid Heath
3 Isolated Chapel
2 Secluded Glen
2 Celestial Colonnade
2 Creeping Tar pit
1 Mutavault
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Island
2 Swamp
1 Plains
This is the version I'll be testing. The landbase isn't bad; however I'll be dropping a swamp for a Watery Grave when I get my hands on one. Burn, Zoo, and Affinity are prevalent in my meta, so I'm hoping that the Spellstutter Sprites will work well. Thoughts?
Footsteps Hulk
Ascendency Combo
Restore Balance
Ad Nauseam
EDH:
Ghave Lands
Narset Combo
Better add more Faeries or reliably get 2+ Spellstutter Sprites per game, fast, or all the Sprites do against Affinity is kill Signal Pest/Vault Skirge/Blinkmoth Nexus/Memnite. They won't even kill Ornithopter. Better use those Inquisition of Kozileks to nail Cranial Platings and Arcbound Ravagers.
Sprites are decent against Zoo and okay against Burn, but those decks pack a metric ton of threats.
Believe the hype!
run moar discard and less counterspells. Have a way to replace all of your removal with discard or counterspells for the sideboard.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=8122582#post8122582
Rest beats the grapeshot, truth/consume beats goblins, dissipate beats their flashback. And then a followup extirpate effect will just win the game. The trick is to make sure they can't combo until later.------
Not the most reliable advise since I've only played against storm with flames 3-4 times my local store (1 guy) so I may be very wrong.
Also, I'm actually really liking the ravenous trap I put in against gifts ungiven. They go for their control package, it can resolve, then gifts resolves and bam! three cards in yard. Then you exile their graveyard along with their best cards against you. (its still not good but much better than some alternatives).
I find that Remand is fantastic against storm combo. Having Rune Snag and Remand in the same deck (along with a 1-of Negate) gives you that consistent turn 2 generic counterspell to keep yourself safe. When your opponent goes off, you let him play one ritual, then Remand the second one and get a 2-for-1. Or you let him play 1-2 rits and Remand the PIF when he has only 0-1 mana available. On top of this, Remand on a flashback spell is a straight-up 2-mana Dismiss. Snare+Remand is pretty sweet vs Ravings too, when the situation arrives.
Generally speaking, if you want to beat PIF storm, you want the following:
-Spell Snare, which stops the 2-mana rituals, Pyromancer Ascension, Kiln Fiend (post-board), Ravings, Goblin Lore, Peer Through Depths, Remand, Ideas Unbound.
-A plan for their anti-countermagic plans post-board. Usually, these involve Gigadrowse+Storage lands, Dispel, Pact of Negation, and Vendilion Clique. The best answer to Gigadrowse is to play Rewind/Trickbind and your own storage lands. The best solution to Dispel and Pact of Negation is to make sure you can cast multiple disruptive spells (countermagic/grave hate/whatever) in one turn, or to stick a Teferi. And the best plan for Vendilion Clique is to make sure you have multiple redundant answers in your hand for the cycling effect, and then later you have a plan to deal with the 3/1 itself after 1-3 turns of swinging (because honestly, a good player will play one of these when it's either going to resolve or you're going to pay for tapping out to counter it on your turn).
-You should also have a solution for resolved threats. The major ones are Pyromancer Ascension, an Empty the Warrens swarm, and Blood Moon. Echoing Truth answers all of these and has implications for basically any other token swarm/dangerous bomb (including planeswalkers), so you should definitely have one in your 75. Other good answers for these problems are Engineered Explosives, Repeal, and Consume the Meek--depending on the threat at hand. When you board, try to have a plan for those times when your opponent decides to forgo the typical storm combo plan, and instead rolls out turn 2 Rit, Rit, Song, ETW for 8. You can't always have the turn 1 disruption to stop that plan and you can't always stop it from happening, but having more outs is never a bad thing...bear this in mind when putting together a board and a board-plan.
Thanks, this was very helpful. I'm already 1 of remanding, mana leaking, and 1 of spell snaring which has been OK. The hands are just so fickle with this deck with such a high end I feel like I'm forced to mulligan a lot. And good hands against zoo and combo and control are so different it seems like gambling to keep some hands game one.
Can you post your list or pm it to me?
Believe the hype!
I played in a decent sized modern tourney last weekend (35-40 people) and pulled out an undefeated 5-round swiss with a T2 split with a friend, but I have a few more insights on teachings in general. My list is pretty typical, other than the fact that it's meta adjusted with 4 Path, 3 Smother, 1 Doomblade, 1 Consume the Meek, 2 Damnation mainboard. I'm playing Inquisition, but that was it for discard.
I'll do short talks about the even 5 rounds and the t8 matches. I'm a little foggy and obviously didn't take super notes.
Round 1 (2-0): Mono White Soul Sisters
Annoying round. I had known that lifegain decks were being played (2 or 3 guys rocked them) and I figured I'd play a couple drownyards just to give me something to beat them with if they could go off with life. My removal combined with drowning worked out well enough. I was just lucky to see them and then 2-0'ed with a mill in extra turns of the second game.
Round 2: CFB Zoo (2-1)
Pretty straightforward here. I killed creatures, teachings for rest for the weary, and eventually got there with a creeping tar pit. G2 I lost strictly to a shaky keep (I should have mulliganned) and being immensely land light.
Round 3: "Big" Zoo (2-0)
All I have written on my notes for this round is "rage." This guy, in g1, raged at me. I saw 2 Path to Exile and my 3 smother by t4-5 in this one. A Tarpit got there eventually in both games. It was an unpleasant round for sure. The guy wouldn't stop talking about how bad my deck was and how I didn't have skill. Rest for the Weary was an allstar once again. 16 life is just nothing to scoff at against zoo.
Round 4: Twinning (2-1)
Normal twin games. Game 1 he had a nuts hand where he was able to go off through a bunch of disruption. G2 and G3 were pretty elementary. I was able to surgical both pestermite and deceiver in game 2 which was pretty fun. T1 inquistion + surgical on deceiver. Then on t4 he went for it again and I smothered the pestermite, into snapcaster surgical since he was tapped out and I was on the play. Ultimately, I had a pretty sweet hand (I have two surgicals post board) for the opener, but he was a very good sport about it.
Round 5: Teachings (2-0)
I got paired with this guy who wanted to draw into the top 8. I told him that I wasn't keen on drawing knowing that I had a chance of not having to play this guy again in the top 8. Needless to say not the biggest fan of the guy. Of course this sort of tilted him, but ultimately, in spite of him playing very slow, I was able to get two drownyards active in both games and end him promptly.
Top 8 Quarters: "Big" Zoo (2-0)
Our rage friend was back. He was once again angry, and once again complained about the match the entire time. The first game he had me at 6 life and I had the natural draw Rest for the Weary, so I went fetch rest for 8, snap, rest for 8 his EOT to go back to 21 life. More comments about how I was a bad player followed me to the Semis.
Top 8 Semifinals: Melira Pod (2-1)
This was the closest match of the day. I feel like being on the play for two games really paid off as I was able to strip accelerants in both games that I was on the play and ultimately counter a pod and kill other relevant things. It was terribly close though and I felt like if the deck becomes more popular I would need more then just removal and some Shadow of Doubt in the Sideboard. It seems like Aven Mindscensor wouldn't be bad against them either I suppose.
Top 8 Finals: Teachings Split
I ended up splitting the 1st place with my friend who was also on my Teachings list. For what it's worth he lost once in the swiss I think.
All in all it was a great tourney that was full of smothering Goyfs and Angry Mountain Cats for most of the day. I'm interested to see what the Dec. banlist will bring. In my opinion, Zoo is manageable if you prepare for it. I won't complain if they ban something from it (like kitty), because it will make the matchup that much better and allow some space to shore up other matchups. As it is, I'm confident that I will be PTQ'ing with Teachings, especially if Zoo is top cat.
deck list?
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
I'm not in Esper at the moment, but this is my list:
4 Darkslick Shores
1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
2 Underground River
7 Island
2 Swamp
3 Sunken Ruins
4 Spell Snare
4 Rune Snag
3 Remand
1 Negate
4 Rewind
1 Smother
1 Go for the Throat
1 Echoing Truth
1 Extirpate
1 Consume the Meek
4 Think Twice
3 Mystical Teachings
1 Jace's Ingenuity
2 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
1 Dralnu, Lich Lord
1 Meloku the Clouded Mirror
1 Death's Shadow
3 Death's Shadow
3 Spreading Seas
2 Pithing Needle
1 Darkblast
1 Dispel
1 Trickbind
1 Flashfreeze
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Consume the Meek
1 Ravenous Trap
I choose Dreadship Reef over Esper Charm. Storage Lands are irreplaceable in a permission deck. I also play Dralnu over Snapcaster because it takes up only one deck slot (as opposed to 3-4), Snapcaster's body is terrible, and flashing back one or two paltry spells is nothing compared to having access to the entire basement (especially if Minamo comes into play).
I don't think running 3 colors is an issue, but I'm not sure white is the way to go (Path is really the only desired tool from that color for me, though it is pretty darn amazing). Either way, this isn't exactly Esper Teachings because it doesn't play Esper Charm--but you asked, so there's the list.
Great job! If I may, how many counterspells do you run, zero? You didn't mention any in the report. I've been having some problems running them against zoo or not running them against control/combo. Or are you just playing the heavy discard worlds list?
How are the drownyards, do they hurt the esper charm manabase or are they alright? They seem good in the mirror ;).
Edit: I guess it's hard like steel, not like diamond. If they have some on-board way to remove Teferi or Knowledge Pool (or win the game) they can get out of it, of course.
Modern: Jund, Wafo-Tapa UWR
Legacy: Witch-Maw Stoneblade
EDH: Ruhan of the Fomori, Hazezon Tamar, Maga, Traitor to Mortals
Not sure I'd call that a "hard lock", but give it a shot. If it would be good anywhere, it would be good in the mirror match.
I guess I should dispel this. NO....
6 mana artifacts that don't win you the game by themselves are bad. Matter of fact 3 mana artifacts(like swords) that don't win you the game by themselves is bad.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
Actually I'm quite happy to play some some swords in legacy with some stoneforge mystics and by that I mean as a 1 of, in correlation with a certain 5 mana artifact.
But in modern with no searching and costing 6 and having to hardcast, this seems very bad. AND it doesn't affect the board.
your hand:
1 knowledge pool
1 teferi, mage of zhalfir
1 mana leak/spell snare/extirpate/mystical teachings/consume the meek/slow card
1 esper charm
3 land
generic zoo player hand:
2 wild nacatl
1 kird ape
1 lightning bolt
3 land
who wins?
Also, slipknot you cannot dispel a knowledge pool, it's an artifact. That would be a misplay in my opinion.
That sounds awesome. Epic tech.
Although, he can pierce dscherli's bubble, but not in this format.
Here's a list I've been cooking up for a while:
2 Mystic Gate
3 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Marsh Flats
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Watery Grave
1 Godless Shrine
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Island
3 Plains
3 Swamp
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Esper Charm
2 Piracy Charm
4 Path to Exile
3 Mystical Teachings
2 Remand
1 Pact of Negation
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Consume the Meek
1 Evacuation
1 Doom Blade
1 Geth's Verdict
1 Rest for the Weary
1 Shadow of Doubt
1 Into the Roil
1 Repeal
1 Cryptic Command
1 White Sun's Zenith
I'd take out 2 piracy charm and an evacuation. I'd add some smother and maybe an extirpate/surgical extraction. How have the charms/evacuation been, worthy or not? They seem pretty bad to me, but I suppose they're good vs. clique, snapcaster, bob, and things.
Alright people my main question is: how bad do the colorless lands mess with your mana. it's pretty hard to actually test it out because of the small number of them, but how bad are they in your opener generally? Worth it or not?
Anyway, I like the ghost quarter and drownyard but I think I'd rather play out the tec edge (better vs. control) than the ghost quarter, but drownyard seems sweet
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
To your main question: It really depends on your meta and depends on your deck. My area is dominated by Affinity and Zoo (they make up just over 70% of the meta together), so I'm more worried about Inkmoth Nexus and cutting them off of Domain than I am worried about the mirror. Also, in a pinch, I have Ghost Quartered myself for that third source of white or blue. That said, if you're running a very color-light list (or a very large amount of Shocklands), Drownyard is the bee's knees- especially if you're running Grim Harvest as a way to keep your Snapcasters on the field. My rule of thumb for running colorless lands is this: No more than 4 if you have fetches, no more than 6 if your don't.
@ the rest: You're right, I should fit in a couple Smothers. I probably should move the Shadow of Doubt to the sideboard, but the Piracy Charms are staying- they've been pretty clutch over all. Not only do they snipe all the X/1's in the format (Tiago, Bob, Clique, Hierarch, Lynx, Skirge, Pestermite, Mindcensor, and whatnot), they are phenomenal at punishing Zoo and Affinity for overextending (Piracy Charm for that Elspeth you were slow-rolling around my 'counters'? Yes please!), they work really, really well with Evacuation (as does most instant-speed discard), and I've actually won games off of them by using them to push the last 2 damage through on the back of a Tar Pit or a Cat before a Storm player could combo out.
And White Sun's Zenith, which is a beast. So I need consistent triple Blue, triple White, and WBU. I might try to fit in Phyrexian Obliterator just so I can build the ultimate elastic manabase.
That said, I've been pleasantly surprised by my manabase. It's been quite good to me.