Adding red is definitely relevant, but this deck wants green t1, and double white by t3, so the mana is definitely tight.
I gave it a shot with 4 foundry and 3 fetch alongside 2 boros charm, 4 bolts instead of paths, and 4 madcap skills (being the best choices imo) and the consistency went straight down. With so few creatures, you often have to mull, then getting 3 colors and t1 green was unlikely. Another issue was the lack of strong 1cmc red aura like unstable mutation. Taste for mayhem was definitely better than furor though.
I've been wondering if the one place Ajani, caller of the pride could be half decent in was bogle. It pumps a creature, survives wipes, and can close a game out with flying and double strike.
Adding red is definitely relevant, but this deck wants green t1, and double white by t3, so the mana is definitely tight.
I gave it a shot with 4 foundry and 3 fetch alongside 2 boros charm, 4 bolts instead of paths, and 4 madcap skills (being the best choices imo) and the consistency went straight down. With so few creatures, you often have to mull, then getting 3 colors and t1 green was unlikely. Another issue was the lack of strong 1cmc red aura like unstable mutation. Taste for mayhem was definitely better than furor though.
I've been wondering if the one place Ajani, caller of the pride could be half decent in was bogle. It pumps a creature, survives wipes, and can close a game out with flying and double strike.
getting 3 colors in a 20 land deck without mulligan is tight enough. having to mulligan and regain card advantage with horizon canopy is worse.
The mana is extremely tight for this deck. If you want to make more than 2 colors work even inconsistently, you are going to have to go for gemstone caverns and city of brass manabase and i don't like it.
you say that getting a 3 colour manabase is hard with such an aggressive deck but zoo decks manage it with more than 3 colours in some cases so what is the difference here?
I would say the difference is simple.
Most Zoo is playing 2 colors and splashing for charm or helix. If you are talking about Domain Zoo... that deck feels really inconsistent and everything is splashable in that deck.
Somethings to watch out for are:
Does Zoo have major restrictions to its opening hand? Zoo is full of creatures. You can play almost all of them with splashable mana. Bogle is not.
In Zoo, You can go T1 Goblin Guide, Kird Ape, Experiment one. You can have either red or green. into T2 Goyf, Flinthoof Boar, Burning Tree Emissary, etc. etc. etc. with either red or green.
In Bogle, You need one bogle or scout, green source, auras, and green and white sources for your auras.
You are allowed so much space to go about playing Zoo but in Bogle that space is reduced considerably.
I've played both the Noble and Nobleless decks and have to say that Nobles give the deck way more than any other creature or enchantment you can put in that slot. She makes the mana much more reliable, provides a pump to your Bogle, and gives you another Green one drop to work with. I've even stolen games by suiting one up against the right deck (such as Pod or anything non Red and White heavy).
Sideboard wise, Suppression Field at 3 is the correct call. I've sided them in all but one match up at the PTQ (vs. Scapeshift) and almost every match at the GPT. They help when you're not sure if Skite is coming in or not.
At the PTQ I lost to Melria Pod round 2 (mainly bad topdecks), U/R/w Splinter Twin in the 7th round (worst misplay of my career: scooping too early) and U/W control in the final round of swiss (t3 Geist with castle back up game 1 and 3). All loses were winnable matches so I believe that this deck does have a place in the Modern metagame.
I've also got the Mod 'go-a-head' to make a Primer for this deck. I should have it up by Friday based on my current work load. So if you have any match up analysis, any insight you might like to share, or if you want your list on the main post just shoot me a PM and I'll be sure to include it in the Primer. I used to be a featured writer for Blackborder.com and I'll make a real nice Primer for the deck
Thanks all, I look forward to improving this deck with you!
I've played both the Noble and Nobleless decks and have to say that Nobles give the deck way more than any other creature or enchantment you can put in that slot. She makes the mana much more reliable, provides a pump to your Bogle, and gives you another Green one drop to work with. I've even stolen games by suiting one up against the right deck (such as Pod or anything non Red and White heavy).
Sideboard wise, Suppression Field at 3 is the correct call. I've sided them in all but one match up at the PTQ (vs. Scapeshift) and almost every match at the GPT. They help when you're not sure if Skite is coming in or not.
At the PTQ I lost to Melria Pod round 2 (mainly bad topdecks), U/R/w Splinter Twin in the 7th round (worst misplay of my career: scooping too early) and U/W control in the final round of swiss (t3 Geist with castle back up game 1 and 3). All loses were winnable matches so I believe that this deck does have a place in the Modern metagame.
I've also got the Mod 'go-a-head' to make a Primer for this deck. I should have it up by Friday based on my current work load. So if you have any match up analysis, any insight you might like to share, or if you want your list on the main post just shoot me a PM and I'll be sure to include it in the Primer. I used to be a featured writer for Blackborder.com and I'll make a real nice Primer for the deck
Thanks all, I look forward to improving this deck with you!
Why the miser Plains? Why didn't you play Keen Sense?
The Plains is strange to me, and Keen Sense has been pretty good to me.
Why the miser Plains? Why didn't you play Keen Sense?
The Plains is strange to me, and Keen Sense has been pretty good to me.
The Plains was there to fetch if a Noble or Spiritdancer got Path to Exiled. I expected the field to be U/W/r control heavy (which it was). Out of the ENTIRE weekend I only had the awkward 'one Plains/awesome rest' hand and of course it had to be in the finals of the GPT. I ended up winning that game after a quick mull to six.
I don't like Keen Sense because I've felt like it needs Rancor or Spirit Mantle to be good. I'd rather have Spider Umbra for the buff, totem, and occasional reach to block an Angel in dire need.
I've been using double strike (from ajani, silverblade, or combat trick) to clean up faster.
This is almost always worst than ripping another aura with ethereal armor in the equation, but without ethereal armor I feel I get a little more reach with double strike (flying is also nice from ajani since I don't run ledgewalkers), against tron and twin, although it is a "win more" effect against aggro and pod(?).
I feel like I'm giving up explosiveness for a little bit of consistency, which may not be a good thing here.
Good luck with the primer, I'm looking forward to it.
Has anyone tried Sprout Swarm to get around sacrifice mechanics? Convoke can often make the card simply G, especially if you have an enchantment that grants the creature vigilance. The buyback is relevant too against a control deck.
I am sure there are many other decent black enchantments, orzhov charm is the most relevant here though against opponents that cause you to sack a lot of things, it is also hard removal and can bring a discarded or sacrificed boggle back to the board.
dying wish as a sb card is nice against sacrificing to, especially considering how big the creatures tend to be
Just a thought, I doesn't seem to have been discussed much. I think the naya version is more relevant as it is much more aggressive, the junk version has a few more options to deal with the bad matchups
If you play red, not suggesting you do mind you Dust Corona is high value. Plus two damage and some evasion which will often make you unblockable.
Has anyone tried Sprout Swarm to get around sacrifice mechanics? Convoke can often make the card simply G, especially if you have an enchantment that grants the creature vigilance. The buyback is relevant too against a control deck.
I've seen PTQ Top 8 lists with Fists of Ironwood, which tends to get around Edicts well enough.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I gave it a shot with 4 foundry and 3 fetch alongside 2 boros charm, 4 bolts instead of paths, and 4 madcap skills (being the best choices imo) and the consistency went straight down. With so few creatures, you often have to mull, then getting 3 colors and t1 green was unlikely. Another issue was the lack of strong 1cmc red aura like unstable mutation. Taste for mayhem was definitely better than furor though.
I've been wondering if the one place Ajani, caller of the pride could be half decent in was bogle. It pumps a creature, survives wipes, and can close a game out with flying and double strike.
getting 3 colors in a 20 land deck without mulligan is tight enough. having to mulligan and regain card advantage with horizon canopy is worse.
The mana is extremely tight for this deck. If you want to make more than 2 colors work even inconsistently, you are going to have to go for gemstone caverns and city of brass manabase and i don't like it.
Sexy Sig by mchief111 @ Rising Studios
EDH
G Isao
I would say the difference is simple.
Most Zoo is playing 2 colors and splashing for charm or helix. If you are talking about Domain Zoo... that deck feels really inconsistent and everything is splashable in that deck.
Somethings to watch out for are:
Does Zoo have major restrictions to its opening hand? Zoo is full of creatures. You can play almost all of them with splashable mana. Bogle is not.
In Zoo, You can go T1 Goblin Guide, Kird Ape, Experiment one. You can have either red or green. into T2 Goyf, Flinthoof Boar, Burning Tree Emissary, etc. etc. etc. with either red or green.
In Bogle, You need one bogle or scout, green source, auras, and green and white sources for your auras.
You are allowed so much space to go about playing Zoo but in Bogle that space is reduced considerably.
Sexy Sig by mchief111 @ Rising Studios
EDH
G Isao
4 Slippery Bogle
4 Gladecover Scout
3 Kor Spiritdancer
3 Noble Hierarch
Auras:
4 Rancor
4 Ethereal Armor
4 Hyena Umbra
3 Spider Umbra
4 Spirit Mantle
4 Daybreak Coronet
3 Path to Exile
Land:
4 Razorverge Thicket
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Temple Garden
3 Horizon Canopy
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Suppression Field
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Nature's Claim
2 Gaddock Teeg
I've played both the Noble and Nobleless decks and have to say that Nobles give the deck way more than any other creature or enchantment you can put in that slot. She makes the mana much more reliable, provides a pump to your Bogle, and gives you another Green one drop to work with. I've even stolen games by suiting one up against the right deck (such as Pod or anything non Red and White heavy).
Sideboard wise, Suppression Field at 3 is the correct call. I've sided them in all but one match up at the PTQ (vs. Scapeshift) and almost every match at the GPT. They help when you're not sure if Skite is coming in or not.
At the PTQ I lost to Melria Pod round 2 (mainly bad topdecks), U/R/w Splinter Twin in the 7th round (worst misplay of my career: scooping too early) and U/W control in the final round of swiss (t3 Geist with castle back up game 1 and 3). All loses were winnable matches so I believe that this deck does have a place in the Modern metagame.
I've also got the Mod 'go-a-head' to make a Primer for this deck. I should have it up by Friday based on my current work load. So if you have any match up analysis, any insight you might like to share, or if you want your list on the main post just shoot me a PM and I'll be sure to include it in the Primer. I used to be a featured writer for Blackborder.com and I'll make a real nice Primer for the deck
Thanks all, I look forward to improving this deck with you!
Why the miser Plains? Why didn't you play Keen Sense?
The Plains is strange to me, and Keen Sense has been pretty good to me.
The Plains was there to fetch if a Noble or Spiritdancer got Path to Exiled. I expected the field to be U/W/r control heavy (which it was). Out of the ENTIRE weekend I only had the awkward 'one Plains/awesome rest' hand and of course it had to be in the finals of the GPT. I ended up winning that game after a quick mull to six.
I don't like Keen Sense because I've felt like it needs Rancor or Spirit Mantle to be good. I'd rather have Spider Umbra for the buff, totem, and occasional reach to block an Angel in dire need.
This is almost always worst than ripping another aura with ethereal armor in the equation, but without ethereal armor I feel I get a little more reach with double strike (flying is also nice from ajani since I don't run ledgewalkers), against tron and twin, although it is a "win more" effect against aggro and pod(?).
I feel like I'm giving up explosiveness for a little bit of consistency, which may not be a good thing here.
Good luck with the primer, I'm looking forward to it.
If you play red, not suggesting you do mind you Dust Corona is high value. Plus two damage and some evasion which will often make you unblockable.
I've seen PTQ Top 8 lists with Fists of Ironwood, which tends to get around Edicts well enough.