So, how would a list with Root Maze look like? I'm very interested.
I posted a deck on the previous page that I took to PTQ Seattle and went 5-4. I'll post it below again. izzetmage's points should be considered if you want to run root maze. It is less good after they get their 3rd or 4th land, but anywhere before then it can still work as a mini-Time Walk for Elves. You'll still have all your mana set up and their 3rd land will come into play tapped.
As for not having synergy with the rest of the deck. The biggest synergy is all of your mana dorks and no fetchlands. This is how Root Maze is no longer symmetrical and only affects your opponent. Also, it doesn't hurt to have Abundant Growth in the deck as well to bounce along with Root Maze for more card draw.
What you do have to consider is a Root Maze deck will have less creatures and won't play fetchlands. So Running Beck // Call and Lead the Stampede are out. You won't have a critical mass of creatures to make those cards effective. So you'll need to run the Cloudstone Curio version.
The deck is tailored to be heavy on the combo side with Manamorphose and Abundant Growth. I haven't tested with Summoner's Pact + Craterhoof Behemoth over Weird Havest yet. I still like Weird Harvest, but it is definitely something to explore if you want to modify this deck to your liking. Also, feel free to ask any questions about the deck and I'll let you know my thought process and results with it in the deck. I've been playing a version similar to this for over a year now.
Decided I wanted to build something like this deck for kicks, seems like a pretty fun deck to play that will give me a break from 8Rack until I can start playing something a bit more competitive.
Even split on the dorks just because of cards like Surgical Extraction. Is 7 the right number of dorks?
Some free wins with a T2 Blood Moon. <-- is this worth the inconsistency/dead cards? probably not..
The understood Cloudstone Curio combo is of course a primary engine.
Buried Ruin acts as protection for it, and it can eventually tap for coloured mana if you give it an abundant growth or you have a blood moon.
Manamorphose cantrips and ups our T2 blood moons. This deck could/should run fetchs of course but $.
Burst of Speed is my weird tech that is probably bad(but that's how new ideas work :)). It can be a ritual when you have a bit of comboing that puts more than one summoning sick dork in to play, it also turns your red sources into green mana.
May seem that we should play Craterhoof because of Burst of Speed (maybe) but if you're getting Craterhoof you shouldn't need the dorks attacking to win. For this reason I think the cards from Regal Force may be better
Maybe this deck wants more of the Ezuri, Renegade Leader but I'm not sure yet
Summoner's Pact as pseudo copies of Regal Force / Ezuri
I've got this in paper but most of my playgroup has us testing tournament ready decks, so I'll only be able to have it for FNM-level play. I think I'll buy in to it on modo for kicks
Anyway, I've been thinking a lot about how elves in modern could work, but I won't pretend to have the right answers. Any constructive criticism is welcome and appreciated!
Spiffy, have you read the lists above running Root Maze? This hates on multi-manabases almost as effectively as Blood Moon with almost no downside and at a much lower cost.
I really feel Ezuri is not very good as a win condition compared to Craterhoof Behemoth. Usually you'll have out a Nettle or two so they can swing as well, I don't think Burst of Speed is needed as a finisher. If you want haste, better than Burst of Speed IMO is Yeva, Nature's Herald - Pact for her on their end step and go off making massive amounts of Elves on their end step. Untap, pay for Pact, and kick their teeth in. If you can make arbitrary / infinite mana, Joraga Warcaller can be a one-drop for combo-seeking that then doubles as win-con.
Thanks for the advice, I didn't love the idea of Burst of Speed and you've definitely options of cards I didn't know exist. I think your options there offer for much more interesting and more robust lines. I think I'm going to revise my list such that the Yeva and Joraga interactions are primary wincons alongside a singleton Craterhoof.
I'm really enjoying playing this deck. Even if its not super competitive, I think it rewards smart play and its certainly an interesting challenge.
Here's my take on the deck. It's almost entirely MonoGreen, so no Beck//Call. But it has other fun ways to win. It wins out very consistently in testing.
how about staff of domination? it gets you so many infinite things with an archdruid and 4 other elves!
Its a fine card, but without being able to tutor for it theres no real point to running it. If you're at infinte draw/mana anyway craterhoof is just better.
Its a fine card, but without being able to tutor for it theres no real point to running it. If you're at infinte draw/mana anyway craterhoof is just better.
I don't think you understood what i was saying. it can get you infinite mana without cloudstone curio
I feel that Staff is interesting but it requires Archdruid to "go off", whereas Curio can "go off" with a variety of different cards in the deck. This IMO makes Curio a better topdeck since it doesn't require Archdruid to be worth playing. And if you go t1 dork, t2 archdruid, chances are pretty good your archdruid is going to eat a removal.
I feel that Staff is interesting but it requires Archdruid to "go off", whereas Curio can "go off" with a variety of different cards in the deck. This IMO makes Curio a better topdeck since it doesn't require Archdruid to be worth playing. And if you go t1 dork, t2 archdruid, chances are pretty good your archdruid is going to eat a removal.
Fair enough. But I thought we needed heritage druid to combo out with cloudstone curio. Amirite?
Fair enough. But I thought we needed heritage druid to combo out with cloudstone curio. Amirite?
Cloudstone Curio can create value if you just have out an elvish visionary. Cast a creature, bounce the visio... rinse repeat with the cheapest creature on board [1 free for not playing a land and having a dryad arbor out]. Staff would require 5 mana to draw a card and only once, curio would generate appx 3 cards from 5 mana.
Cloudstone Curio can save a creature from removal with things like Imperious Perfect or Scryb Ranger. Staff just plain cant do this...
Cloudstone Curio needs a couple creatures + heritage to generate infinite mana, while staff needs archdruid. If your opponent taps out, and you have a cloudstone out heritage druid can win the game (a 4 of card). You would need to top deck the Staff and have an active archdruid to win the game. Having active creatures is harder to pull off than active artifacts -game 1 for sure-
Both die to the same removal spells, both are bad in multiples (unless you count being able to bounce 2 creatures at a time in response to a board wipe?)
It just feels like cloudstone curio has more utility in the elf deck, whereas staff might just have more versatility in general.
Cloudstone Curio needs a couple creatures + heritage to generate infinite mana, while staff needs archdruid. If your opponent taps out, and you have a cloudstone out heritage druid can win the game (a 4 of card). You would need to top deck the Staff and have an active archdruid to win the game. Having active creatures is harder to pull off than active artifacts -game 1 for sure-
I see what you were saying with the other parts of your comment but this portion that i quoted here makes no sense. When you say active, do you mean, like, tappable?
Another advantage of Curio + Heritage over Archdruid + Staff, is that it requires fewer bodies and is not affected by summoning sickness. Curio + Heritage can generate infy mana off three bodies total. Staff + Archdruid requires four bodies (including the Archdruid) to go infinite, and you can't begin to go off until your Archdruid gets out of summoning sickness. Definitely less reliable IMO.
I guess there is something to say for the fact that Staff is a better top deck than Cloudstone is. If you have any sort of board presence / mana generation and you top deck the staff you can start to goto town. On the flipside with Cloudstone in that situation you would need another creature in hand, a way to generate creatures on board (Imperious Perfect) or a scryb ranger + dryad arbor (or a fetchland with dryad arbor available to get).
I've been looking everywhere for an active forum for this elves combo in modern. Glad I've found one.
Only new to modern world and about more than a month now. I haven't have any good finish with the deck since I play with it. I love elves so I'm desperately looking for forum to help me improve the deck.
I can see that almost everyone is on curio build as am I.
I cut the archdruid totally because every time I cast it almost 90% she's gone on my next turn. I'll always feel like I always skip my 2nd turn with him. 2nd turn visionary/curio is better IMO than archdruid. Opponent care less with 1/1 elf with no ability compare to a very serious threat like archdruid but actually a 2 elves in battlefield(dork and visionary) can set you up for a third turn kill. So I decided to go full combo and go the Blue splash add some counter to protect my combo turn. I only need to draw 1 counter spell for me to combo without hesitation cause most of the time opponent have only 1 spell to disrupt you in your combo turn. Timing is everything.
During testing I really like the Intruder Alarm + Wren's Run Packmaster combo. Its a nice substitute if you cant draw 1 curio. At least virtually I have 6 curio. with Intruder Alarm + Wren's Run Packmaster combo you only need 1 heritage and any 1 elf to make wolf infinitely. Yes It have no haste but its just an alternative. And Wren's Run Packmaster can hold by himself. avoids bolt and Inquisition among others and leaves you with 1 elf on field after sweeper(best if visionary is the elf). opponent will hesitate to attack with ground troops with him on the floor with open 3+ mana. I haven't tested it yet in actual event. This weekend will be the first.
Im not a huge fan of counterspells in elves, even if you can produce the blue easy enough. At the times of top decking and not getting much it seems fine but wouldnt a Lead the Stampede or something similar just be better to have? Counterspells are in my mind the worst type of interaction you can have with elves. Something like Setessan Tactics seems far better, its removal it can get a creature out of bolt range (with some lordly help) and can apply across an entire board easily enough with elf mana production.
Also I understand that Elvish Archdruid basically ALWAYS eats a removal, but thats not always a horrible thing. Consider running some more elf lords (Elvish Champion, Imperious Perfect) to help bolster your team without being all in on Craterhoof. Your list doesnt look like it turns into the beat down plan very well at all, which is honestly how I win most games with elves.
Imperious Perfect is very similar to your Packmaster, its an elf... doesn't require a champion trigger to work and is also a lord. Its a touch slower because it needs to tap to make a creature, but once its out of summoning sickness its a much cheaper loop.
Imperious Perfect is really good, also, Im fairly concerned how intruder alarm and cloudstone curio affect your draw-ratios in the same deck (at a total of 6 cards that do-nothing unless you have a combo-enabling board I get that curio visionary is basically draw your deck, but intruder alarm along with it seems bad, considering monogreen elves with curio can basically bounce and recast almost all of its guys anyway). And on the archdruid always eating removal thing...thats fine you have 4 in the deck. Nykthos is there as backup for when it does eat removal so you can hold your ground till you get to your next one.
Though, I am a monogreen elves player (Msinly for Lead the Stampede and Choke) who usually chooses wonky combo cards like Soul of the Harvest (Which could be anything else)
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Decks I have in my bag of tricks- Needless to say, someone who wants to play will probably have a deck UB/x Faeries UR Storm XURWB Affinity G Elves UW control
Tried searching the thread, didn't see any mention of Coiling Oracle over or with Elvish Visionary. It's visionary with some irrelevant creature types attached, with the potential of ramp. The downside of revealing the card seems to be acceptable considering the potential for ramp. My apologies if this has already been discussed.
There are few issues that would make me hesitate playing Coiling Oracle. First, it requires we have U available. This isn't always the case all our elves are tapping for G and we are running a small set of lands. Second, in the Cloudstone Curio version, one cannot go infinite with Coiling Oracle. You need that cost to be 1G. Third, we run so few lands it will almost never be the ramp option. The card drawn is revealed instead of remaining hidden with Visionary.
But feel free to test it. I'm always happy to see new ideas for this deck as it is fun to play.
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As for not having synergy with the rest of the deck. The biggest synergy is all of your mana dorks and no fetchlands. This is how Root Maze is no longer symmetrical and only affects your opponent. Also, it doesn't hurt to have Abundant Growth in the deck as well to bounce along with Root Maze for more card draw.
What you do have to consider is a Root Maze deck will have less creatures and won't play fetchlands. So Running Beck // Call and Lead the Stampede are out. You won't have a critical mass of creatures to make those cards effective. So you'll need to run the Cloudstone Curio version.
The deck is tailored to be heavy on the combo side with Manamorphose and Abundant Growth. I haven't tested with Summoner's Pact + Craterhoof Behemoth over Weird Havest yet. I still like Weird Harvest, but it is definitely something to explore if you want to modify this deck to your liking. Also, feel free to ask any questions about the deck and I'll let you know my thought process and results with it in the deck. I've been playing a version similar to this for over a year now.
15 Forest
Creatures
4 Arbor Elf
1 Elvish Mystic
4 Elvish Archdruid
4 Heritage Druid
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Elvish Visionary
1 Riftsweeper
1 Ezuri, Renegade Leader
1 Essence Warden
1 Regal Force
4 Abundant Growth
3 Root Maze
Instants
4 Manamorphose
1 Research // Development
Artifacts
4 Cloudstone Curio
Sorceries
4 Weird Harvest
3 Vines of Vastwood
2 Beast Within
3 Dismember
1 Eternal Witness
1 Viridian Shaman
2 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Yeva, Nature's Herald
1 Tajuru Preserver
1 Squall Line
My current decklist idea looks like this:
10 Forest
4 Stomping Ground
1 Buried Ruin
Creatures
3 Arbor Elf
2 Elvish Mystic
2 Llanowar Elves
4 Heritage Druid
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Elvish Archdruid
1 Ezuri, Renegade Leader
4 Elvish Visionary
1 Essence Warden
1 Regal Force
4 Abundant Growth
3 Blood Moon
Instants
4 Manamorphose
2 Summoner's Pact
Sorceries
2 Burst of Speed
Artifacts
4 Cloudstone Curio
Some of my thoughts:
I've got this in paper but most of my playgroup has us testing tournament ready decks, so I'll only be able to have it for FNM-level play. I think I'll buy in to it on modo for kicks
Anyway, I've been thinking a lot about how elves in modern could work, but I won't pretend to have the right answers. Any constructive criticism is welcome and appreciated!
I really feel Ezuri is not very good as a win condition compared to Craterhoof Behemoth. Usually you'll have out a Nettle or two so they can swing as well, I don't think Burst of Speed is needed as a finisher. If you want haste, better than Burst of Speed IMO is Yeva, Nature's Herald - Pact for her on their end step and go off making massive amounts of Elves on their end step. Untap, pay for Pact, and kick their teeth in. If you can make arbitrary / infinite mana, Joraga Warcaller can be a one-drop for combo-seeking that then doubles as win-con.
--Kurt Vonnegut, Jr., who is up in Heaven now. EDH WUBRG Child of Alara WUBRG BGW Karador, Ghost Chieftain BGW RGW Mayael the Anima RGW WUB Sharuum the Hegemon WUB RWU Zedruu the Greathearted RWU
WB Ghost Council of Orzhova WB RG Ulasht, the Hate Seed RG B Korlash, Heir to Blackblade B G Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer G *click the general's name to see my list!*
Going off by casting 6-8 1/1s and swinging for 10 just doesnt seem profitable.
Thirst for Knowledge % to hit artifact
I'm really enjoying playing this deck. Even if its not super competitive, I think it rewards smart play and its certainly an interesting challenge.
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Heritage Druid
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Nettle Sentinel
3 Elvish Visionary
3 Elvish Archdruid
3 Elvish Harbinger
2 Lys Alana Huntmaster
1 Nylea, God of the Hunt
2 Wren's Run Packmaster
3 Summoner's Pact
2 Helix Pinnacle
1 Grapeshot
4 Cloudstone Curio
Lands: 20
4 Cavern of Souls
6 Forest
1 Mountain
3 Wooded Foothills
3 Copperline Gorge
3 Vivid Grove
4 Altar of the Brood
4 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Reclamation Sage
3 Vengevine
Live streaming Casual Magic: the Gathering
Sundays at 7:00 PM Eastern Time / 4:00 PM Pacific Time
Follow along on Instagram (@kokoshomebrews) as I create casual tribal decks
and try to build around crazy combos, then play em on stream!
|| WBG || GW || GB || GWU ||
Live streaming Casual Magic: the Gathering
Sundays at 7:00 PM Eastern Time / 4:00 PM Pacific Time
Follow along on Instagram (@kokoshomebrews) as I create casual tribal decks
and try to build around crazy combos, then play em on stream!
|| WBG || GW || GB || GWU ||
Legacy:
Manaless Dredge http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/phantasmagorian-manaless-dredge/
Goblins http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/dont-know-how-to-count-no-more-legacy-goblins/
ad nauseam tendrils http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/10-04-15-ant-budget/
Modern:
elves http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/elf-pump-30000-dmg-possible/
burn. http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/the-deck-that-made-history/
infect http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/infect-win-2-turns/
Its a fine card, but without being able to tutor for it theres no real point to running it. If you're at infinte draw/mana anyway craterhoof is just better.
Thirst for Knowledge % to hit artifact
I don't think you understood what i was saying. it can get you infinite mana without cloudstone curio
Legacy:
Manaless Dredge http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/phantasmagorian-manaless-dredge/
Goblins http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/dont-know-how-to-count-no-more-legacy-goblins/
ad nauseam tendrils http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/10-04-15-ant-budget/
Modern:
elves http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/elf-pump-30000-dmg-possible/
burn. http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/the-deck-that-made-history/
infect http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/infect-win-2-turns/
--Kurt Vonnegut, Jr., who is up in Heaven now. EDH WUBRG Child of Alara WUBRG BGW Karador, Ghost Chieftain BGW RGW Mayael the Anima RGW WUB Sharuum the Hegemon WUB RWU Zedruu the Greathearted RWU
WB Ghost Council of Orzhova WB RG Ulasht, the Hate Seed RG B Korlash, Heir to Blackblade B G Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer G *click the general's name to see my list!*
Fair enough. But I thought we needed heritage druid to combo out with cloudstone curio. Amirite?
Legacy:
Manaless Dredge http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/phantasmagorian-manaless-dredge/
Goblins http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/dont-know-how-to-count-no-more-legacy-goblins/
ad nauseam tendrils http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/10-04-15-ant-budget/
Modern:
elves http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/elf-pump-30000-dmg-possible/
burn. http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/the-deck-that-made-history/
infect http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/infect-win-2-turns/
Cloudstone Curio can create value if you just have out an elvish visionary. Cast a creature, bounce the visio... rinse repeat with the cheapest creature on board [1 free for not playing a land and having a dryad arbor out]. Staff would require 5 mana to draw a card and only once, curio would generate appx 3 cards from 5 mana.
Cloudstone Curio can save a creature from removal with things like Imperious Perfect or Scryb Ranger. Staff just plain cant do this...
Cloudstone Curio needs a couple creatures + heritage to generate infinite mana, while staff needs archdruid. If your opponent taps out, and you have a cloudstone out heritage druid can win the game (a 4 of card). You would need to top deck the Staff and have an active archdruid to win the game. Having active creatures is harder to pull off than active artifacts -game 1 for sure-
Both die to the same removal spells, both are bad in multiples (unless you count being able to bounce 2 creatures at a time in response to a board wipe?)
It just feels like cloudstone curio has more utility in the elf deck, whereas staff might just have more versatility in general.
Thirst for Knowledge % to hit artifact
I see what you were saying with the other parts of your comment but this portion that i quoted here makes no sense. When you say active, do you mean, like, tappable?
Legacy:
Manaless Dredge http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/phantasmagorian-manaless-dredge/
Goblins http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/dont-know-how-to-count-no-more-legacy-goblins/
ad nauseam tendrils http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/10-04-15-ant-budget/
Modern:
elves http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/elf-pump-30000-dmg-possible/
burn. http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/the-deck-that-made-history/
infect http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/infect-win-2-turns/
Thirst for Knowledge % to hit artifact
--Kurt Vonnegut, Jr., who is up in Heaven now. EDH WUBRG Child of Alara WUBRG BGW Karador, Ghost Chieftain BGW RGW Mayael the Anima RGW WUB Sharuum the Hegemon WUB RWU Zedruu the Greathearted RWU
WB Ghost Council of Orzhova WB RG Ulasht, the Hate Seed RG B Korlash, Heir to Blackblade B G Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer G *click the general's name to see my list!*
Thirst for Knowledge % to hit artifact
I've been looking everywhere for an active forum for this elves combo in modern. Glad I've found one.
Only new to modern world and about more than a month now. I haven't have any good finish with the deck since I play with it. I love elves so I'm desperately looking for forum to help me improve the deck.
I can see that almost everyone is on curio build as am I.
Here's my build
9 Forest
2 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
4 Hinterland Harbor
4 Breeding Pool
24 Creatures
1 llanowar elves
4 arbor elf
4 elvish visionary
4 nettle sentinel
4 heritage druid
1 Ezuri, Renegade Leader
1 Essence Warden
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Eternal Witnes
2 Wren's Run Packmaster
1 CraterHoof Behemoth
4 Cloudstone Curio
2 Intruder Alarm
4 Summoner's Pact
4 Spell Pierce
4 Negate
I cut the archdruid totally because every time I cast it almost 90% she's gone on my next turn. I'll always feel like I always skip my 2nd turn with him. 2nd turn visionary/curio is better IMO than archdruid. Opponent care less with 1/1 elf with no ability compare to a very serious threat like archdruid but actually a 2 elves in battlefield(dork and visionary) can set you up for a third turn kill. So I decided to go full combo and go the Blue splash add some counter to protect my combo turn. I only need to draw 1 counter spell for me to combo without hesitation cause most of the time opponent have only 1 spell to disrupt you in your combo turn. Timing is everything.
During testing I really like the Intruder Alarm + Wren's Run Packmaster combo. Its a nice substitute if you cant draw 1 curio. At least virtually I have 6 curio. with Intruder Alarm + Wren's Run Packmaster combo you only need 1 heritage and any 1 elf to make wolf infinitely. Yes It have no haste but its just an alternative. And Wren's Run Packmaster can hold by himself. avoids bolt and Inquisition among others and leaves you with 1 elf on field after sweeper(best if visionary is the elf). opponent will hesitate to attack with ground troops with him on the floor with open 3+ mana. I haven't tested it yet in actual event. This weekend will be the first.
Any thoughts?
Also I understand that Elvish Archdruid basically ALWAYS eats a removal, but thats not always a horrible thing. Consider running some more elf lords (Elvish Champion, Imperious Perfect) to help bolster your team without being all in on Craterhoof. Your list doesnt look like it turns into the beat down plan very well at all, which is honestly how I win most games with elves.
Imperious Perfect is very similar to your Packmaster, its an elf... doesn't require a champion trigger to work and is also a lord. Its a touch slower because it needs to tap to make a creature, but once its out of summoning sickness its a much cheaper loop.
Thirst for Knowledge % to hit artifact
Though, I am a monogreen elves player (Msinly for Lead the Stampede and Choke) who usually chooses wonky combo cards like Soul of the Harvest (Which could be anything else)
UB/x Faeries
UR Storm
XURWB Affinity
G Elves
UW control
But feel free to test it. I'm always happy to see new ideas for this deck as it is fun to play.