Welcome to the weekly Modern SCG discussions. Please use this thread to talk about the development of Moderns Meta in the SCG weekly events, and the impact of it on the greater whole of modern as a format.
The OP will have an updating list the events, which will link you to a post that shows the top 16 archetypes and their deck lists.
Rules of the Thread:
1. Be civil. Discussions can be heated, but that does not mean flames are tolerated.
2. While many of us disagree with their practices, this is not the place to talk about Star City Games as a business.
3. While its OK to talk about card prices due to usage from these decks, it is not ok to say their is manipulation.
Have fun guys. Predict the meta, guess what will do well, given what we know, or how last week the top 16 was. What would you like to see? Maybe people who attend can post updates.
Man, I hope that having these events brings some innovation in the format! It is getting a bit stale, honestly.
offtopic i know.
This inherited for eternal format, the only way to shake the things up, apart from unbanning changes, is to create a new good combo or a blatantly powerful card (like was TNN for legacy).
Unfortunately this isn't possible for modern because the cards need to pass trough Standard and:
- combos aren't welcome in standard so they can create only "retrospective" combo like they did with Archangel of thune and spike feeder, and kinda worked.
- real powerful cards warp the format, like delver or snapcaster in the recent INN standard.
Back on topic: in the MODO era i don't think we can have surprises in a paper events when thousands people play constantly competitive magic every day online.
- L
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"The problem isn't when Scissors says Rock is overpowered, it's when Paper says it is."
-Mark Rosewater
Hoping they don't stream the same 5 decks all day. I wanna see interesting, new and fringe decks get some air time like with the Legacy streams.
But will they stream the modern event? It's in the same day of the legacy one...
I'm especially curious on how much the meta will vary from the MODO one, i.e. the % of Burn or UR Delver...
- L
Knowing SCG, they will probably just stream Legacy over Modern. I wish they could have 2 streams going on at the same time, so we can also get a Modern stream.
Back on topic: in the MODO era i don't think we can have surprises in a paper events when thousands people play constantly competitive magic every day online.
From what I have been reading and hearing, the forced switch on Wednesday has cut down on the number of players on line quite a bit. Apparently the new interface is terrible from what I have read. That doesnt lead to an innovative environment.
Quote from DotMatrix »
TOMORROW'S THE DAY.
I CAN'T WAIT TO BE DOWN THIRTY DOLLARYDOOS PUNTING TO TWIN.
Good luck!
no stream.
Has this been published somewhere? I can not see them picking up a new format and not streaming it. Maybe bouncing back and forth between Legacy and Modern?
Personally I think early in this coverage, many are going to be surprised how stale the format really is. Its going to take time for the innovation to come.
Back on topic: in the MODO era i don't think we can have surprises in a paper events when thousands people play constantly competitive magic every day online.
From what I have been reading and hearing, the forced switch on Wednesday has cut down on the number of players on line quite a bit. Apparently the new interface is terrible from what I have read. That doesnt lead to an innovative environment.
Quote from DotMatrix »
TOMORROW'S THE DAY.
I CAN'T WAIT TO BE DOWN THIRTY DOLLARYDOOS PUNTING TO TWIN.
Good luck!
no stream.
Has this been published somewhere? I can not see them picking up a new format and not streaming it. Maybe bouncing back and forth between Legacy and Modern?
Personally I think early in this coverage, many are going to be surprised how stale the format really is. Its going to take time for the innovation to come.
On the site it is labeled as a premier event and not an open, so sounds like they're valuing it less (lower payout, etc). Not guaranteed to not be streamed but probably unlikely.
From what I understand, Premier IQs are their highest tier of IQ events.
Sure, it's second fiddle to the Open proper, but hey it's still a thing.
Shame that for the $10 you're not charged vs the Open, you don't get complementary SCG membership.
I was watching SCG when they first announced the Modern events and they specifically stated that they'd be streaming Legacy over Modern. Sucks, I know.
I was watching SCG when they first announced the Modern events and they specifically stated that they'd be streaming Legacy over Modern. Sucks, I know.
Which makes me kind of sad, but Sunday legacy is also the only real place to watch legacy and it's the most enjoyable format to watch IMO, so I don't think SCG feels like not broadcasting the thing they're most known for is a good idea. Sucks though because standard is just so damn boring to watch. Same decks doing the same thing every match. I'm not a standard hater or anything, I do play standard but this one is so boring that for the last year we see four decks on camera. They also love the U/W control variants way too much because those are the least camera-suited decks. Legacy Miracles is a sweet deck to watch (even though it's annoying when it's on camera three rounds in a row). Standard U/W is not. I wish we could have the choice to watch legacy/modern instead of standard.
I agree. I hardly have any interest in Standard. For those of you who say Modern is stale, have you played Standard recently?
I wish that the Modern tournament could be on Saturday instead of Sunday. I'd much rather play Modern on Saturday, then Legacy on Sunday. I'm waiting for them to come to the SoCal area (I didn't go to the L.V. or Portland ones).
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
to be fair, modern has been URx vs GBx much longer than devotion has been around. on the other hand, i have zero interest in standard because of the types of cards they're printing.
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I speak in sarcasm because calling people ******* ******** is not allowed.
to be fair, modern has been URx vs GBx much longer than devotion has been around. on the other hand, i have zero interest in standard because of the types of cards they're printing.
I think they stream Standard for business reasons, trying to get noobs to watch them and get some sort of feel for competitive events on a level they understand (simple creatures attacking until someone is dead). I know I learned a lot from watching standard events when I played standard only. But combos and a large card pool new players don't know about would likely make standard players stop watching.
**** it, lets create a new weekend day, something for between Saturday and Sunday so they can stream that day.
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Active Modern Decks
U Tron GW Bogles RG Loam UR Blue Breach RBU Grixis Goryo BRU Grixis Delver GBR Jund GBW Junk
to be fair, modern has been URx vs GBx much longer than devotion has been around. on the other hand, i have zero interest in standard because of the types of cards they're printing.
Modern has affinity and tron as tier 1 decks as well. Also the variants of UR and BG like storm/uwr/twin/scapeshift and jund/pod/living end are all very different from one another, despite using the similar manabases (which is brought on a lot by having limited fetching options). There are also decks like zoo, hate bears, merfolk, devotion, etc that would be on camera and doing well at various events making modern substantially more varied and enjoyable to watch than standard has been.
to be fair, modern has been URx vs GBx much longer than devotion has been around. on the other hand, i have zero interest in standard because of the types of cards they're printing.
I think they stream Standard for business reasons, trying to get noobs to watch them and get some sort of feel for competitive events on a level they understand (simple creatures attacking until someone is dead). I know I learned a lot from watching standard events when I played standard only. But combos and a large card pool new players don't know about would likely make standard players stop watching.
**** it, lets create a new weekend day, something for between Saturday and Sunday so they can stream that day.
On the business side of things, you'd think they'd want to increase the interest in modern since the prices are so inflated and there's money to be made right now. SCG owns most of their fetch stock from when they were 7 bucks. Selling them at 70 is a pretty insane return.
to be fair, modern has been URx vs GBx much longer than devotion has been around. on the other hand, i have zero interest in standard because of the types of cards they're printing.
I think they stream Standard for business reasons, trying to get noobs to watch them and get some sort of feel for competitive events on a level they understand (simple creatures attacking until someone is dead). I know I learned a lot from watching standard events when I played standard only. But combos and a large card pool new players don't know about would likely make standard players stop watching.
**** it, lets create a new weekend day, something for between Saturday and Sunday so they can stream that day.
I would settle for SCG setting up a Friday Modern Open each time there's a 3 day weekend. Maybe in the future they can be convinced to start up a second stream for the Modern tournaments. I imagine they need to grow a bit in size first though, another stream is a pretty substantial investment in commentators and equipment but I bet a lot of their previous rotating commentators would be happy to comment on Modern.
to be fair, modern has been URx vs GBx much longer than devotion has been around. on the other hand, i have zero interest in standard because of the types of cards they're printing.
Modern has affinity and tron as tier 1 decks as well. Also the variants of UR and BG like storm/uwr/twin/scapeshift and jund/pod/living end are all very different from one another, despite using the similar manabases (which is brought on a lot by having limited fetching options). There are also decks like zoo, hate bears, merfolk, devotion, etc that would be on camera and doing well at various events making modern substantially more varied and enjoyable to watch than standard has been.
to be fair, modern has been URx vs GBx much longer than devotion has been around. on the other hand, i have zero interest in standard because of the types of cards they're printing.
I think they stream Standard for business reasons, trying to get noobs to watch them and get some sort of feel for competitive events on a level they understand (simple creatures attacking until someone is dead). I know I learned a lot from watching standard events when I played standard only. But combos and a large card pool new players don't know about would likely make standard players stop watching.
**** it, lets create a new weekend day, something for between Saturday and Sunday so they can stream that day.
On the business side of things, you'd think they'd want to increase the interest in modern since the prices are so inflated and there's money to be made right now. SCG owns most of their fetch stock from when they were 7 bucks. Selling them at 70 is a pretty insane return.
First, Tron isn't teir 1.
Second, not all of their stock is from the 7 dollar per fetch era. Most of it is likely from their buylist. Id be shocked if they still had any of the original stock from the Zendikar standard days. I mean, that is 5 years ago. And with all the price jumps in fetches its pretty unlikely they were able to get ENOUGH to both satisfy their customers and still have enough to sell online after THIS LONG.
And if you think prices are high now, if modern got more air time the prices of staples like Snapcaster/Resto and anything remotely low/cheap would be rising.
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Active Modern Decks
U Tron GW Bogles RG Loam UR Blue Breach RBU Grixis Goryo BRU Grixis Delver GBR Jund GBW Junk
to be fair, modern has been URx vs GBx much longer than devotion has been around. on the other hand, i have zero interest in standard because of the types of cards they're printing.
Modern has affinity and tron as tier 1 decks as well. Also the variants of UR and BG like storm/uwr/twin/scapeshift and jund/pod/living end are all very different from one another, despite using the similar manabases (which is brought on a lot by having limited fetching options). There are also decks like zoo, hate bears, merfolk, devotion, etc that would be on camera and doing well at various events making modern substantially more varied and enjoyable to watch than standard has been.
to be fair, modern has been URx vs GBx much longer than devotion has been around. on the other hand, i have zero interest in standard because of the types of cards they're printing.
I think they stream Standard for business reasons, trying to get noobs to watch them and get some sort of feel for competitive events on a level they understand (simple creatures attacking until someone is dead). I know I learned a lot from watching standard events when I played standard only. But combos and a large card pool new players don't know about would likely make standard players stop watching.
**** it, lets create a new weekend day, something for between Saturday and Sunday so they can stream that day.
On the business side of things, you'd think they'd want to increase the interest in modern since the prices are so inflated and there's money to be made right now. SCG owns most of their fetch stock from when they were 7 bucks. Selling them at 70 is a pretty insane return.
First, Tron isn't teir 1.
Second, not all of their stock is from the 7 dollar per fetch era. Most of it is likely from their buylist. Id be shocked if they still had any of the original stock from the Zendikar standard days. I mean, that is 5 years ago. And with all the price jumps in fetches its pretty unlikely they were able to get ENOUGH to both satisfy their customers and still have enough to sell online after THIS LONG.
And if you think prices are high now, if modern got more air time the prices of staples like Snapcaster/Resto and anything remotely low/cheap would be rising.
Per definition of this forum GR Tron is a Tier 1 deck since it is in the Proven section while all decks in Established are Tier 2.
Do people actually use the Proven section as a determinant of a deck being teir 1 or not? Isnt ******* bogles in that section? Lol k.
Yes because it has actual data and criteria to back it up instead of randomly spouting which decks are Tier 1 or not. Tiers are meaningless without establishing a definition of what they entail.
You can say that all you want but everyone knows that Jund, Twin, Pod and Affinity are the teir 1 decks. Half of the decks in the proven section are 1.5. You cant say Storm is teir 1, same goes for Fish and Bogles.
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Active Modern Decks
U Tron GW Bogles RG Loam UR Blue Breach RBU Grixis Goryo BRU Grixis Delver GBR Jund GBW Junk
I feel liek the source gives a much better impression of the tier one decks in the legacy meta than our forum does in its proven section. Tier 1 is the proven high performing decks, decks floating around the top 16 at every major.
I'm not having a go, calling them proven and established works fine, but just remember that most of the community would agree with the Jund, Twin, Pod and affinity definition of tier 1. I'd almost put scapeshift in there too, but the tier 1 is the elite decks. Tier 1.5 is the more flash in the pan places every now and then decks.
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http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/597649-scg-open-baltimore-2-29-3-1-steam-live-now
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Welcome to the weekly Modern SCG discussions. Please use this thread to talk about the development of Moderns Meta in the SCG weekly events, and the impact of it on the greater whole of modern as a format.
The OP will have an updating list the events, which will link you to a post that shows the top 16 archetypes and their deck lists.
Events, Top 16, and Deck Lists:
http://www.starcitygames.com/pages/decklists/
Rules of the Thread:
1. Be civil. Discussions can be heated, but that does not mean flames are tolerated.
2. While many of us disagree with their practices, this is not the place to talk about Star City Games as a business.
3. While its OK to talk about card prices due to usage from these decks, it is not ok to say their is manipulation.
U Tron
GW Bogles
RG Loam
UR Blue Breach
RBU Grixis Goryo
BRU Grixis Delver
GBR Jund
GBW Junk
Active Legacy Decks
BR Reanimator
But will they stream the modern event? It's in the same day of the legacy one...
I'm especially curious on how much the meta will vary from the MODO one, i.e. the % of Burn or UR Delver...
- L
"The problem isn't when Scissors says Rock is overpowered, it's when Paper says it is."
-Mark Rosewater
offtopic i know.
This inherited for eternal format, the only way to shake the things up, apart from unbanning changes, is to create a new good combo or a blatantly powerful card (like was TNN for legacy).
Unfortunately this isn't possible for modern because the cards need to pass trough Standard and:
- combos aren't welcome in standard so they can create only "retrospective" combo like they did with Archangel of thune and spike feeder, and kinda worked.
- real powerful cards warp the format, like delver or snapcaster in the recent INN standard.
Back on topic: in the MODO era i don't think we can have surprises in a paper events when thousands people play constantly competitive magic every day online.
- L
"The problem isn't when Scissors says Rock is overpowered, it's when Paper says it is."
-Mark Rosewater
I'm sure people are going to put aside what is already proven good when it comes to winning
big prizes.
I actually enjoy watching SCG do Legacy, so I look forward to watching fifty shades of URx and GBx duke it out.
With so many tournaments being held in between GPs I bet we are finally going to see a tested layout for UB Fae.
Knowing SCG, they will probably just stream Legacy over Modern. I wish they could have 2 streams going on at the same time, so we can also get a Modern stream.
I CAN'T WAIT TO BE DOWN THIRTY DOLLARYDOOS PUNTING TO TWIN.
Anyone else coming along?
From what I have been reading and hearing, the forced switch on Wednesday has cut down on the number of players on line quite a bit. Apparently the new interface is terrible from what I have read. That doesnt lead to an innovative environment.
Good luck!
Has this been published somewhere? I can not see them picking up a new format and not streaming it. Maybe bouncing back and forth between Legacy and Modern?
Personally I think early in this coverage, many are going to be surprised how stale the format really is. Its going to take time for the innovation to come.
On the site it is labeled as a premier event and not an open, so sounds like they're valuing it less (lower payout, etc). Not guaranteed to not be streamed but probably unlikely.
Sure, it's second fiddle to the Open proper, but hey it's still a thing.
Shame that for the $10 you're not charged vs the Open, you don't get complementary SCG membership.
Which makes me kind of sad, but Sunday legacy is also the only real place to watch legacy and it's the most enjoyable format to watch IMO, so I don't think SCG feels like not broadcasting the thing they're most known for is a good idea. Sucks though because standard is just so damn boring to watch. Same decks doing the same thing every match. I'm not a standard hater or anything, I do play standard but this one is so boring that for the last year we see four decks on camera. They also love the U/W control variants way too much because those are the least camera-suited decks. Legacy Miracles is a sweet deck to watch (even though it's annoying when it's on camera three rounds in a row). Standard U/W is not. I wish we could have the choice to watch legacy/modern instead of standard.
I wish that the Modern tournament could be on Saturday instead of Sunday. I'd much rather play Modern on Saturday, then Legacy on Sunday. I'm waiting for them to come to the SoCal area (I didn't go to the L.V. or Portland ones).
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)I think they stream Standard for business reasons, trying to get noobs to watch them and get some sort of feel for competitive events on a level they understand (simple creatures attacking until someone is dead). I know I learned a lot from watching standard events when I played standard only. But combos and a large card pool new players don't know about would likely make standard players stop watching.
**** it, lets create a new weekend day, something for between Saturday and Sunday so they can stream that day.
U Tron
GW Bogles
RG Loam
UR Blue Breach
RBU Grixis Goryo
BRU Grixis Delver
GBR Jund
GBW Junk
Active Legacy Decks
BR Reanimator
Modern has affinity and tron as tier 1 decks as well. Also the variants of UR and BG like storm/uwr/twin/scapeshift and jund/pod/living end are all very different from one another, despite using the similar manabases (which is brought on a lot by having limited fetching options). There are also decks like zoo, hate bears, merfolk, devotion, etc that would be on camera and doing well at various events making modern substantially more varied and enjoyable to watch than standard has been.
On the business side of things, you'd think they'd want to increase the interest in modern since the prices are so inflated and there's money to be made right now. SCG owns most of their fetch stock from when they were 7 bucks. Selling them at 70 is a pretty insane return.
I would settle for SCG setting up a Friday Modern Open each time there's a 3 day weekend. Maybe in the future they can be convinced to start up a second stream for the Modern tournaments. I imagine they need to grow a bit in size first though, another stream is a pretty substantial investment in commentators and equipment but I bet a lot of their previous rotating commentators would be happy to comment on Modern.
First, Tron isn't teir 1.
Second, not all of their stock is from the 7 dollar per fetch era. Most of it is likely from their buylist. Id be shocked if they still had any of the original stock from the Zendikar standard days. I mean, that is 5 years ago. And with all the price jumps in fetches its pretty unlikely they were able to get ENOUGH to both satisfy their customers and still have enough to sell online after THIS LONG.
And if you think prices are high now, if modern got more air time the prices of staples like Snapcaster/Resto and anything remotely low/cheap would be rising.
U Tron
GW Bogles
RG Loam
UR Blue Breach
RBU Grixis Goryo
BRU Grixis Delver
GBR Jund
GBW Junk
Active Legacy Decks
BR Reanimator
Per definition of this forum GR Tron is a Tier 1 deck since it is in the Proven section while all decks in Established are Tier 2.
U Tron
GW Bogles
RG Loam
UR Blue Breach
RBU Grixis Goryo
BRU Grixis Delver
GBR Jund
GBW Junk
Active Legacy Decks
BR Reanimator
Yes because it has actual data and criteria to back it up instead of randomly spouting which decks are Tier 1 or not. Tiers are meaningless without establishing a definition of what they entail.
U Tron
GW Bogles
RG Loam
UR Blue Breach
RBU Grixis Goryo
BRU Grixis Delver
GBR Jund
GBW Junk
Active Legacy Decks
BR Reanimator
I'm not having a go, calling them proven and established works fine, but just remember that most of the community would agree with the Jund, Twin, Pod and affinity definition of tier 1. I'd almost put scapeshift in there too, but the tier 1 is the elite decks. Tier 1.5 is the more flash in the pan places every now and then decks.