Can people tell Patrick Sullivan to shut up about bannings in Legacy already during a Modern tournament? It was okay to talk about between games to pass the time but he kept going during the game. A game of Modern was going on and instead of discussing what was going on he spent most of it going on about how he's against banning Deathrite Shaman in Legacy.
In case anyone's wondering what I'm talking about after the fact, see the second game in the Semifinals (Humans v. Merfolk).
I actually was interested in it. I hadn't heard that the talk of banning Deathrite Shaman in Legacy had picked up. I did know that it's been #1 on the chopping block for quite a bit now, but I didn't even realize that the talk had picked up. Personally, I think it would be a terrible ban. Besides, the match so far has just been a pure Aggro race; pretty bland and boring for most many people.
That doesn't mean people would be more interested in him attacking strawman arguments on something that's unrelated to the format they're watching (what would have been interesting would be an explanation as to why he thinks it should be legal in Legacy but banned in Modern--unless he thinks it should be unbanned in Modern?). It might be one thing if it were a discussion, but Cedric seemed largely uninterested in the topic one way or the other, so it's just Sullivan railing against strawman arguments he seems to have made up rather than actual ones.
The deck he plays has a good matchup vs. most Deathrite Shaman decks. That could be part of it. But yes, Cedric was mostly not interested and just being polite.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
I thought Sullivans rant on legacy was hysterical and refreshing. Colins was on camera all day, we knew what the deck did
Sullivan said it himself, the game was in trash time, it was already over for his opponent at that point.
Honestly, PSully and Cedric were awesome this weekend, I don't think any duo in mtg comes even close to these guys.
Honestly, Collin was lucky that UG Merfolk played horribly multiple times. I'm going to chalk up the merfolk player just being absolutely exhausted, because he definitely snatched away defeat from the jaws of victory.
And had that happened, Storm most likely would have won this whole thing.
I thought Sullivans rant on legacy was hysterical and refreshing. Colins was on camera all day, we knew what the deck did
Not all that refreshing because his arguments weren't very good. He didn't interact with the actual arguments people had against Deathrite Shaman, so it's just him attacking a bunch of strawmen. Part of that might be that Cedric wasn't offering much because he didn't care, but that just makes his rant all the more irritating.
For example, he dismisses the complaint that Black gets a mana dork because mono-Black decks don't run it. That's missing the problem: Because you can use Black mana for it, you don't need to commit to Green. Decks running it generally have a very small Green splash in order to use its second ability, but that amounts to running a 1-of Green dual. So Grixis decks can happily use their fetchland to get an Underground Sea and cast it at no real drawback, whereas it being only Green would have incurred more of a deckbuilding cost. And Grixis variants are the biggest thing by a considerable margin in Legacy right now. Even outside of the Grixis decks, splashes for Deathrite Shaman are disturbingly common.
He also accuses the fetchlands of being the problem, but that's missing the fact that the fetchlands benefit all colors whereas Deathrite Shaman skews you heavily into a particular kind of deck and a particular color, or the fact that a full fetchland ban to deal with Deathrite Shaman (1) bans 10 cards instead of 1, and (2) carries an insane amount of splash damage to deal with that one card. And banning the fetchlands effectively bans Deathrite Shaman anyway, so why not just ban the Shaman?
There's too many arguments he makes that are an utter strawman of those who want Deathrite Shaman out of the format. Some of his other points are weak also, like when he mocks people complaining about True-Name Nemesis because they want their Swords to Plowshares to take care of everything. Well, no, that would be the case if the card just had Hexproof, and people would be fine. The problem is that True-Name Nemesis can't be targeted, blocked, and can block anything without taking damage. At least as obnoxious as Invisible Stalker was, it was a poor blocker, and you could also kill it with a damage sweeper effect. By the way, Invisible Stalker was never a thing in Legacy and players still didn't like it in the formats where it was viable, so much for the claim it's just about Legacy players not getting to use their Swords to Plowshares.
He does have a point in regards to Legacy players complaining about sets not affecting the format and then complain about cards affecting it, but I think even that's a bit weak because Legacy players don't complain about cards affecting the metagame, but affecting them in ways they don't like. Deathrite Shaman is currently in 39% of Legacy decks. 39%! (in contrast, the most played card in Modern, Path to Exile, is in 29%) And sure, people will point out that Brainstorm, Ponder, and Force of Will are played even more than Deathrite Shaman. But they constrain you into particular a kind of deck less than Deathrite Shaman does, and as Wizards of the Coast has repeatedly make it clear they're apparently untouchable, people focus their criticisms onto the cards that don't seem as sacred and might actually get removed from the format, like Deathrite Shaman.
And that's what annoys me. A lengthy rant that he does instead of actually talking about the tournament they're in in which he basically just attacks a lot of strawman arguments.
are you guys really going to in-depth debate the commentary? surely the decks and players in the tournament (you know, the actual tournament) is infinitely more interesting than talking about the commentary? Give it a week and you will literally not care one iota about the commentary, but a week from now you might still be getting insight from the decks and matchups in the tournament itself.
i'm stoked about the humans deck doing well. Picked up the cards for it yesterday to see how it plays. might be a decent side-event crusher, who knows. It certainly seems like it got a significant upgrade from Kitesail Freebooter and Unclaimed Territory to the extent where it's a legit deck all of a sudden (i guess that's a fairly common occurrence in Modern where a deck reaches critical mass with a card from a new set all of a sudden)
overall lots to think about in this tournament. The metagame seems great as well. nothing really dominating.
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
are you guys really going to in-depth debate the commentary? surely the decks and players in the tournament (you know, the actual tournament) is infinitely more interesting than talking about the commentary? Give it a week and you will literally not care one iota about the commentary, but a week from now you might still be getting insight from the decks and matchups in the tournament itself.
It would've been easier to ignore if Patrick Sullivan hadn't kept yapping on and on about it during an actual game.
I'm not trying to argue for or against a banning of Deathrite Shaman in Legacy (I don't really care much, I barely play Legacy anymore). I'm just saying it was really obnoxious to keep going for the majority of the game about the topic when he wasn't even giving a good discussion of it.
He main-decked Thalias and Meddling Mages in a field of Storm and other glass cannons. All of which backed up by a quick aggressive clock. Of course he was going to do well.
are you guys really going to in-depth debate the commentary? surely the decks and players in the tournament (you know, the actual tournament) is infinitely more interesting than talking about the commentary? Give it a week and you will literally not care one iota about the commentary, but a week from now you might still be getting insight from the decks and matchups in the tournament itself.
It would've been easier to ignore if Patrick Sullivan hadn't kept yapping on and on about it during an actual game.
I'm not trying to argue for or against a banning of Deathrite Shaman in Legacy (I don't really care much, I barely play Legacy anymore). I'm just saying it was really obnoxious to keep going for the majority of the game about the topic when he wasn't even giving a good discussion of it.
so in the interests of understanding your viewpoint i went back and watched the whole section of video you're referring to, from the lead-up to the actual game in question. Honestly I think it's fine. they were having fun with a spur of the moment 'running gag' and despite being 9 hours into their working day or whatever i think they still managed to make it amusing. Bear in mind there's two of them for a reason - this is very common in any sports commentary (i'd hope you'd be at least vaguely familiar with this?) that one person might latch onto a running gag and be humorous while the other keeps things grounded. I've seen commentary for various sports games only an hour long where one of the commentators goes on a ten minute rambling funny monologue. it's part & parcel with commentary and if anything i'm surprised we don't see this more often. it shows a level of comfort in front of the mic/camera and a willingness to try things out instead of just blandly describe what's in front of them. It's what makes particular commentators loved by an audience instead of completely forgettable.
it may not be to your taste, but this is completely par for the course in any kind of commentary, and for what it's worth it was pretty amusing as well.
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
He main-decked Thalias and Meddling Mages in a field of Storm and other glass cannons. All of which backed up by a quick aggressive clock. Of course he was going to do well.
firstly, we can consider him going 14-0-1 as he intentionally conceded the final round to his opponent to give them a shot at the top 8 (he was so far ahead in match wins he didn't need the win to stay as first seed). a minor detail but not insiginificant.
and then mainly - i'd respectfully raise a couple of points here:
1) this was pretty much the first real opportunity for the deck to do anything with the new ixalan additions. It's entirely possible that the deck has reached a kind of critical mass in terms of synergistic effects and now we'll see a general improvement in meta share as people's results improve and others pick up the deck. Certainly the addition of freebooter seems to have given the deck more 'clout' than it used to have, and the new land can't hurt! I'm not saying it'll rocket up the standings, but just based on this weekend I believe we'll see a noticeable uptick in share.
2) cfusionpm - i believe you are falling into an age-old trap in terms of your line of thinking there. it's easy enough to say "well he had X effect in a format of Y, of course he's going to do well" but this line of thinking misses out on a couple of critical points here.
a) despite having a generally decent effect in his deck vs. one of the mainstays of the format, this doesn't preclude doing well in an open tournament. As we know from the coverage, the guy piloting Humans this weekend battled through a multitude of 'poor' matchups such as elves, affinity, merfolk, death's shadow and burn during his run - not at all what you're suggesting! if he'd played storm and ad nauseam like six times i'd concede the point but he really didn't. The facts of the day stand against what you're saying.
b) your statement ignores pilot skill and deck consistency. even with a 'favourable deck' it's completely possible to draw badly and lose rounds to variance and the occasional mistake which everyone makes, or just drawing the right cards at the wrong time, reading the matchup wrongly or whatever. there is no "of course he was going to do well" because there never is. I'm a decent enough player, but could I have top-8ed that infamous GP with Death's Shadow Jund when it first broke onto the scene and nobody expected it and it was the perfect meta deck for the weekend? i'd say on balance no, i could not - but that's what you're effectively trying to suggest, like it's some kind of 'done deal', therefore undermining the pilot's achievement because 'of course he was going to do well'. Not fair man, not fair.
i don't want to pick an argument here and I don't want a dreary back-and-forth with quotes and meandering paragraphs of waffle... If you want to argue just PM me or something. I just wanted to highlight the fact that the humans deck has only really just 'started' in terms of having new cards and also that cfusionpm's comment was at best a little unfair and at worst misleading argument-bait.
It was a meta deck, that preyed specifically on the current meta. He made a lot of interesting maindeck choices that were rewarded multuple times (like turn 2 Medling Mage getting a concession from Storm). It *could* be a real deck and a mainstay in the format, or it could be another random spike deck that took down an SCG Open under ideal conditions with a competent pilot. We'll see going forward which it is.
It was a meta deck, that preyed specifically on the current meta. He made a lot of interesting maindeck choices that were rewarded multuple times (like turn 2 Medling Mage getting a concession from Storm). It *could* be a real deck and a mainstay in the format, or it could be another random spike deck that took down an SCG Open under ideal conditions with a competent pilot. We'll see going forward which it is.
yes, we'll see.
(loved that meddling mage game in the finals as well haha. what a card to be playing in modern! good times)
for sure, the deck has seen a huge boost from new cards, as well as new interest in the archetype so i suppose we should all expect an increase in visibility in the short term at least.
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
I've been playing Human Company for a while now. I truly believe that it is NOT a flash in the pan, although I could get behind it being good in the current meta. My version is quite different, but I have won very close to 90% of my matches with it, not counting IDs. My record when I put it down was 30-4 with it. I have been currently playing Knightfall more often simply because it is more fun to me (not to mention, foiled) and the win percentage is not super far off so far (28-13). I also let a friend who hasn't played Magic at all since he quit and sold his cards. He ran my same Humans' list (only changing 1-2 SB Rest in Peace to Nature's Claims instead, leaving only 2 Rest in Peace) to 10-1-1, with the loss being a scoop to a Pro Player and split prizes with the deck. He told me that all of those wins have been 2-0s, except one of them. He hasn't played the past 2 weeks because of work, but he also put in work with this deck.
I also was very close to canning Titanshift during the PPTQ season and running Humans. I feel like it's nearly as strong as the top 4 decks. But perhaps a lot of this is predicated on certain hate bear Humans lining up with the decks that they wreak havoc for. There are often certain Humans that are subpar vs. some decks, but for most decks that I've faced so far, there's always some Human for the job!
*I will admit that all of these matches have been at 2 LGS, where attendance is down and the skill level has gone with it too. The skill level is very average right now. The metas there are not the same as the national level. For example, I'm 3-0 vs. GDS, 2-0 vs. E Tron, and 1-0 vs. Titanshift. But I am 11-1 against Merfolk. There are a lot of Fish lovers locally and I literally never dodge them in the Swiss.
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Such decks win at the moment, because each and his mother think they dont need to interact. Old jund decks as an example with desruption and tarmogoyf can easy beat it...but people dont play this anymore. You are fast?...no i am fast....stop, i am the fastest!.... This is not true, i play storm and kill you turn 3. Like i say several times, more interaction guys!
For what it's worth, this deck has to be super good vs. Storm. Although I'm only 1-0 vs. Storm so far, my version has 4 Rest in Peace, 2 Kambal, Consul of Allocation, 3 Sin Collector, 4 Thalia Guardian of Thraben, 4 Path to Exile, 4 Reflector Mage, 3 Meddling Mage, and a quick clock after SB. I usually take out some number of Path to Exile and Rest in Peace out to make Companies hit harder, although the correct play is probably just side out most Companies. My version runs a Basic Plains, Basic Forest, and 8 mana dorks, so Blood Moon is somewhat easy to play around. It often deadens 1-2 cards, but usually it slows down the opponent just as much. I literally hope that I run into Storm after Storm when I'm playing this deck.
The deck is very fish-like in that you're trying to maintain a specific clock while disrupting your opponents (or shutting them down completely) along the way. The deck has a turn 4 kill, which I've done twice.
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
To be exact 14-0-1. He drew in the last round into the top 8.
Greetings,
Kathal
No, he went 14-1. According to the round 15 results, he lost the match. Not that it makes any real difference (he still finished #1 seed), but he didn't draw it.
To be exact 14-0-1. He drew in the last round into the top 8.
Greetings,
Kathal
No, he went 14-1. According to the round 15 results, he lost the match. Not that it makes any real difference (he still finished #1 seed), but he didn't draw it.
I can't remember where I heard it (I think the post Open win conversation with Nick Miller), but he said that he scooped the 15th round to a friend. Nick told him that some may have wanted to see him play for 15-0, but that didn't matter much to him.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
To be exact 14-0-1. He drew in the last round into the top 8.
Greetings,
Kathal
No, he went 14-1. According to the round 15 results, he lost the match. Not that it makes any real difference (he still finished #1 seed), but he didn't draw it.
As he was 2 or more match-points clear of everyone else, he intentionally scooped to allow someone else a shot at top 8. He didn't actually lose a match that he played out, all weekend.
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
To be exact 14-0-1. He drew in the last round into the top 8.
Greetings,
Kathal
No, he went 14-1. According to the round 15 results, he lost the match. Not that it makes any real difference (he still finished #1 seed), but he didn't draw it.
It was mentioned in the interview at the end (I think, or at some other point during the top 8) that he scooped to a friend to help him make top 8
Well that mana base gets shredded by blood moon. You can't rely on vial enough to bypass how much that sets you back.
Otherwise, oldschool attrition-y MU's are probably one of the better bets. It can't value its way through jund removal/advantage, especially when it's not playing something like company. In retrospect, that's probably what made humans such a great meta-call: people not playing their BGx midrange decks.
Haven't run into the deck yet, but definitely seems interesting.
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Modern
Affinity
Death & Taxes
Mardu Nahiri
Forcing people to merge with twitch is stupid
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Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
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Sullivan said it himself, the game was in trash time, it was already over for his opponent at that point.
Honestly, PSully and Cedric were awesome this weekend, I don't think any duo in mtg comes even close to these guys.
Honestly, Collin was lucky that UG Merfolk played horribly multiple times. I'm going to chalk up the merfolk player just being absolutely exhausted, because he definitely snatched away defeat from the jaws of victory.
And had that happened, Storm most likely would have won this whole thing.
For example, he dismisses the complaint that Black gets a mana dork because mono-Black decks don't run it. That's missing the problem: Because you can use Black mana for it, you don't need to commit to Green. Decks running it generally have a very small Green splash in order to use its second ability, but that amounts to running a 1-of Green dual. So Grixis decks can happily use their fetchland to get an Underground Sea and cast it at no real drawback, whereas it being only Green would have incurred more of a deckbuilding cost. And Grixis variants are the biggest thing by a considerable margin in Legacy right now. Even outside of the Grixis decks, splashes for Deathrite Shaman are disturbingly common.
He also accuses the fetchlands of being the problem, but that's missing the fact that the fetchlands benefit all colors whereas Deathrite Shaman skews you heavily into a particular kind of deck and a particular color, or the fact that a full fetchland ban to deal with Deathrite Shaman (1) bans 10 cards instead of 1, and (2) carries an insane amount of splash damage to deal with that one card. And banning the fetchlands effectively bans Deathrite Shaman anyway, so why not just ban the Shaman?
There's too many arguments he makes that are an utter strawman of those who want Deathrite Shaman out of the format. Some of his other points are weak also, like when he mocks people complaining about True-Name Nemesis because they want their Swords to Plowshares to take care of everything. Well, no, that would be the case if the card just had Hexproof, and people would be fine. The problem is that True-Name Nemesis can't be targeted, blocked, and can block anything without taking damage. At least as obnoxious as Invisible Stalker was, it was a poor blocker, and you could also kill it with a damage sweeper effect. By the way, Invisible Stalker was never a thing in Legacy and players still didn't like it in the formats where it was viable, so much for the claim it's just about Legacy players not getting to use their Swords to Plowshares.
He does have a point in regards to Legacy players complaining about sets not affecting the format and then complain about cards affecting it, but I think even that's a bit weak because Legacy players don't complain about cards affecting the metagame, but affecting them in ways they don't like. Deathrite Shaman is currently in 39% of Legacy decks. 39%! (in contrast, the most played card in Modern, Path to Exile, is in 29%) And sure, people will point out that Brainstorm, Ponder, and Force of Will are played even more than Deathrite Shaman. But they constrain you into particular a kind of deck less than Deathrite Shaman does, and as Wizards of the Coast has repeatedly make it clear they're apparently untouchable, people focus their criticisms onto the cards that don't seem as sacred and might actually get removed from the format, like Deathrite Shaman.
And that's what annoys me. A lengthy rant that he does instead of actually talking about the tournament they're in in which he basically just attacks a lot of strawman arguments.
i'm stoked about the humans deck doing well. Picked up the cards for it yesterday to see how it plays. might be a decent side-event crusher, who knows. It certainly seems like it got a significant upgrade from Kitesail Freebooter and Unclaimed Territory to the extent where it's a legit deck all of a sudden (i guess that's a fairly common occurrence in Modern where a deck reaches critical mass with a card from a new set all of a sudden)
overall lots to think about in this tournament. The metagame seems great as well. nothing really dominating.
i'm not refuting you, but why do you suggest this?
isn't it possible that the new cards from ixalan gave it a critical mass sort of thing?
I'm not trying to argue for or against a banning of Deathrite Shaman in Legacy (I don't really care much, I barely play Legacy anymore). I'm just saying it was really obnoxious to keep going for the majority of the game about the topic when he wasn't even giving a good discussion of it.
1 Result isn't enough
I don't think this deck will be anything thats really around 6 months later. It was just a meta rogue deck
He main-decked Thalias and Meddling Mages in a field of Storm and other glass cannons. All of which backed up by a quick aggressive clock. Of course he was going to do well.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
so in the interests of understanding your viewpoint i went back and watched the whole section of video you're referring to, from the lead-up to the actual game in question. Honestly I think it's fine. they were having fun with a spur of the moment 'running gag' and despite being 9 hours into their working day or whatever i think they still managed to make it amusing. Bear in mind there's two of them for a reason - this is very common in any sports commentary (i'd hope you'd be at least vaguely familiar with this?) that one person might latch onto a running gag and be humorous while the other keeps things grounded. I've seen commentary for various sports games only an hour long where one of the commentators goes on a ten minute rambling funny monologue. it's part & parcel with commentary and if anything i'm surprised we don't see this more often. it shows a level of comfort in front of the mic/camera and a willingness to try things out instead of just blandly describe what's in front of them. It's what makes particular commentators loved by an audience instead of completely forgettable.
it may not be to your taste, but this is completely par for the course in any kind of commentary, and for what it's worth it was pretty amusing as well.
firstly, we can consider him going 14-0-1 as he intentionally conceded the final round to his opponent to give them a shot at the top 8 (he was so far ahead in match wins he didn't need the win to stay as first seed). a minor detail but not insiginificant.
and then mainly - i'd respectfully raise a couple of points here:
1) this was pretty much the first real opportunity for the deck to do anything with the new ixalan additions. It's entirely possible that the deck has reached a kind of critical mass in terms of synergistic effects and now we'll see a general improvement in meta share as people's results improve and others pick up the deck. Certainly the addition of freebooter seems to have given the deck more 'clout' than it used to have, and the new land can't hurt! I'm not saying it'll rocket up the standings, but just based on this weekend I believe we'll see a noticeable uptick in share.
2) cfusionpm - i believe you are falling into an age-old trap in terms of your line of thinking there. it's easy enough to say "well he had X effect in a format of Y, of course he's going to do well" but this line of thinking misses out on a couple of critical points here.
a) despite having a generally decent effect in his deck vs. one of the mainstays of the format, this doesn't preclude doing well in an open tournament. As we know from the coverage, the guy piloting Humans this weekend battled through a multitude of 'poor' matchups such as elves, affinity, merfolk, death's shadow and burn during his run - not at all what you're suggesting! if he'd played storm and ad nauseam like six times i'd concede the point but he really didn't. The facts of the day stand against what you're saying.
b) your statement ignores pilot skill and deck consistency. even with a 'favourable deck' it's completely possible to draw badly and lose rounds to variance and the occasional mistake which everyone makes, or just drawing the right cards at the wrong time, reading the matchup wrongly or whatever. there is no "of course he was going to do well" because there never is. I'm a decent enough player, but could I have top-8ed that infamous GP with Death's Shadow Jund when it first broke onto the scene and nobody expected it and it was the perfect meta deck for the weekend? i'd say on balance no, i could not - but that's what you're effectively trying to suggest, like it's some kind of 'done deal', therefore undermining the pilot's achievement because 'of course he was going to do well'. Not fair man, not fair.
i don't want to pick an argument here and I don't want a dreary back-and-forth with quotes and meandering paragraphs of waffle... If you want to argue just PM me or something. I just wanted to highlight the fact that the humans deck has only really just 'started' in terms of having new cards and also that cfusionpm's comment was at best a little unfair and at worst misleading argument-bait.
To be exact 14-0-1. He drew in the last round into the top 8.
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
yes, we'll see.
(loved that meddling mage game in the finals as well haha. what a card to be playing in modern! good times)
for sure, the deck has seen a huge boost from new cards, as well as new interest in the archetype so i suppose we should all expect an increase in visibility in the short term at least.
I also was very close to canning Titanshift during the PPTQ season and running Humans. I feel like it's nearly as strong as the top 4 decks. But perhaps a lot of this is predicated on certain hate bear Humans lining up with the decks that they wreak havoc for. There are often certain Humans that are subpar vs. some decks, but for most decks that I've faced so far, there's always some Human for the job!
*I will admit that all of these matches have been at 2 LGS, where attendance is down and the skill level has gone with it too. The skill level is very average right now. The metas there are not the same as the national level. For example, I'm 3-0 vs. GDS, 2-0 vs. E Tron, and 1-0 vs. Titanshift. But I am 11-1 against Merfolk. There are a lot of Fish lovers locally and I literally never dodge them in the Swiss.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)For what it's worth, this deck has to be super good vs. Storm. Although I'm only 1-0 vs. Storm so far, my version has 4 Rest in Peace, 2 Kambal, Consul of Allocation, 3 Sin Collector, 4 Thalia Guardian of Thraben, 4 Path to Exile, 4 Reflector Mage, 3 Meddling Mage, and a quick clock after SB. I usually take out some number of Path to Exile and Rest in Peace out to make Companies hit harder, although the correct play is probably just side out most Companies. My version runs a Basic Plains, Basic Forest, and 8 mana dorks, so Blood Moon is somewhat easy to play around. It often deadens 1-2 cards, but usually it slows down the opponent just as much. I literally hope that I run into Storm after Storm when I'm playing this deck.
The deck is very fish-like in that you're trying to maintain a specific clock while disrupting your opponents (or shutting them down completely) along the way. The deck has a turn 4 kill, which I've done twice.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)I can't remember where I heard it (I think the post Open win conversation with Nick Miller), but he said that he scooped the 15th round to a friend. Nick told him that some may have wanted to see him play for 15-0, but that didn't matter much to him.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)As he was 2 or more match-points clear of everyone else, he intentionally scooped to allow someone else a shot at top 8. He didn't actually lose a match that he played out, all weekend.
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
It actually looks like it could overwhelm jund.
What's the archetype weak to?
Well that mana base gets shredded by blood moon. You can't rely on vial enough to bypass how much that sets you back.
Otherwise, oldschool attrition-y MU's are probably one of the better bets. It can't value its way through jund removal/advantage, especially when it's not playing something like company. In retrospect, that's probably what made humans such a great meta-call: people not playing their BGx midrange decks.
Haven't run into the deck yet, but definitely seems interesting.
Affinity
Death & Taxes
Mardu Nahiri
Forcing people to merge with twitch is stupid