I'm kinda surprised we still don't see more infect around, it seems reasonable powerful still, even without probe. I'd like to see something keep the tron decks in check anyways
DS keeps Tron decks in check. DS also keeps Infect down because it's a bad matchup (removal plus discard plus fast clock).
I'm kinda surprised we still don't see more infect around, it seems reasonable powerful still, even without probe. I'd like to see something keep the tron decks in check anyways
DS keeps Tron decks in check. DS also keeps Infect down because it's a bad matchup (removal plus discard plus fast clock).
makes sense then, Death's Shadow has kinda forced a few decks down
I'm kinda surprised we still don't see more infect around, it seems reasonable powerful still, even without probe. I'd like to see something keep the tron decks in check anyways
DS keeps Tron decks in check. DS also keeps Infect down because it's a bad matchup (removal plus discard plus fast clock).
Plus keeps most of jund's good matchups as well. The deck is extremely powerful. I just don't see any reason to play traditional jund anymore. Perhaps we can finally get that bloodbraid elf unban?
I know maybe 2 years ago, especially after the release of Origins, I saw people toying with Esper Mentor lists. are any forms of Mentor decks still viable with no Probe?
I know maybe 2 years ago, especially after the release of Origins, I saw people toying with Esper Mentor lists. are any forms of Mentor decks still viable with no Probe?
Mentor is a pretty good "plan B" for cheeri0s but other than that, not really. I played an esper mentor list with death's shadow a few years ago (WAY before DS was cool ) but probe was way too important to that list to work anymore.
It is a good card for sure and it may pop into modern at some point but we don't have the early ramp that legacy has to get it out early enough to take advantage of, nor a good enough collection of cheap (free) spells to actually get it going once it hits. A lot of the cheap cantrips that a mentor deck would want aren't spells (architects of will and street wraith) so you are just better off using these to fuel delirium or delve or goyfs.
I know maybe 2 years ago, especially after the release of Origins, I saw people toying with Esper Mentor lists. are any forms of Mentor decks still viable with no Probe?
Mentor is a 3-drop that does nothing when it comes down, dies to everything, and requires multiple other spells to make him relevant. Young Pyromancer offers 80-85% of the value at 66% the cost, and even THAT doesn't see much play. Without free counterspells to protect him (like Daze/FoW), he's pretty bad in a format where most decks mainboard 3-8 removal spells.
I know maybe 2 years ago, especially after the release of Origins, I saw people toying with Esper Mentor lists. are any forms of Mentor decks still viable with no Probe?
Mentor is a 3-drop that does nothing when it comes down, dies to everything, and requires multiple other spells to make him relevant. Young Pyromancer offers 80-85% of the value at 66% the cost, and even THAT doesn't see much play. Without free counterspells to protect him (like Daze/FoW), he's pretty bad in a format where most decks mainboard 3-8 removal spells.
yeah, I kinda came to teh conclusion after making the post, guess it's really easy to stop. Guess there was a reason people stopped playing it in modern not long after trying it
I know maybe 2 years ago, especially after the release of Origins, I saw people toying with Esper Mentor lists. are any forms of Mentor decks still viable with no Probe?
Mentor is a 3-drop that does nothing when it comes down, dies to everything, and requires multiple other spells to make him relevant. Young Pyromancer offers 80-85% of the value at 66% the cost, and even THAT doesn't see much play. Without free counterspells to protect him (like Daze/FoW), he's pretty bad in a format where most decks mainboard 3-8 removal spells.
yeah, I kinda came to teh conclusion after making the post, guess it's really easy to stop. Guess there was a reason people stopped playing it in modern not long after trying it
If he cost 1W and was otherwise identical to YP, but with Prowess on himself alone, he would be amazing. As it stands, he's too much "win more."
I know maybe 2 years ago, especially after the release of Origins, I saw people toying with Esper Mentor lists. are any forms of Mentor decks still viable with no Probe?
Mentor is a 3-drop that does nothing when it comes down, dies to everything, and requires multiple other spells to make him relevant. Young Pyromancer offers 80-85% of the value at 66% the cost, and even THAT doesn't see much play. Without free counterspells to protect him (like Daze/FoW), he's pretty bad in a format where most decks mainboard 3-8 removal spells.
yeah, I kinda came to teh conclusion after making the post, guess it's really easy to stop. Guess there was a reason people stopped playing it in modern not long after trying it
If he cost 1W and was otherwise identical to YP, but with Prowess on himself alone, he would be amazing. As it stands, he's too much "win more."
win more is the best way to put it, he just lets you get further ahead on a board state you're already ahead on
Metagame here in the UK is quite interesting at the moment:
- Lots of blue-based control (grixis, jeskai, esper)
- Lots of Tron
- Lots of midrange
- A scattering of decks like affinity/infect
- A scattering of ad nauseam/storm
- A reasonable amount of death's shadow.
- Bogles! Seems to be well-represented as well.
Interestingly though, at a large scg tournament last week (116 players), there were 6 death's shadow decks at the absolute bottom tables facing off against each other (I was among them, it was ridiculous), and two lucky death's shadow players in the top 8 (watching them play was painful, topdeck the Battle-rage exactly when you need it, handshake haha). The metagame was hostile to say the least & you needed a lot of luck to dodge matchups or draw the right half of your deck as a shadow player. I drew badly all day and felt deflated by the end of it.
It's a funny metagame. I think big-mana is underrepresented in a big way. Makes me think scapeshift might be a good outside choice.
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
so tron decks and an Abzan deck with +1/+1 counter themes have sprung up a bit around here. the Abzan counter deck uses stuff like hardened scales, winding constrictor and a bunch of modular cards.
so tron decks and an Abzan deck with +1/+1 counter themes have sprung up a bit around here. the Abzan counter deck uses stuff like hardened scales, winding constrictor and a bunch of modular cards.
has anyone else been seeing this deck?
That's been around for maybe a couple of months. Sounds a lot like this:
What's the deal with Jeskai Harbringer being in tier 2 for so long? It's metagame presence has been pretty much zero for ages both in paper and online.
Still putting up enough results here and there mainly, it's pretty common in some areas still cause paper meta change a lot slower. Wouldn't be surprised to see it drop off into Tier 3 or lower next update though.
What's the deal with Jeskai Harbringer being in tier 2 for so long? It's metagame presence has been pretty much zero for ages both in paper and online.
Still putting up enough results here and there mainly, it's pretty common in some areas still cause paper meta change a lot slower. Wouldn't be surprised to see it drop off into Tier 3 or lower next update though.
Really? Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I haven't seen it hit top 16/32 of anything big in a while and even blue moon feels like it is more represented than jeskai. And this is for jeskai control, nahiri has been nowhere to be seen in anything but R/W prison lists.
In which tournaments did we get to see enough jeskai harbringer to warrant a tier 2?
Nothing big at all, but the tier system looks at stuff like GPTs, PPTQs, States, IQs, MTGO Leagues, etc. Just going 4-1 or better in an MTGO League gets counted according to Nexus, so no it's not putting up results in Opens/GPs but it is or was still prevalent enough back when the last update occurred to be tier 2.
*Edit*
I just double checked Nexus and idk where you're even seeing Nahiri at Tier 2, they've got it at Tier 3. If you're simply going by what subforum the primer is in that's silly cause that's always months behind.
so tron decks and an Abzan deck with +1/+1 counter themes have sprung up a bit around here. the Abzan counter deck uses stuff like hardened scales, winding constrictor and a bunch of modular cards.
has anyone else been seeing this deck?
That's been around for maybe a couple of months. Sounds a lot like this:
yeah that's it, guess it just increased in popularity over the past month or so
as for Jeskai Nahiri, I haven't seen anyone else on the deck since the WMCQ I played in in September. I was really late in getting off the deck, when I gave up on it in February.
Does Blue still need help now that U/W control is Tier 1?
It's "Tier 1" because the definitions of Tier 1 have been changed. Though, it has been on the rise because it beats up on a handful of the top decks (notably Death's Shadow and Eldrazi). I'd wait until some real events come in with results to make a determination though. I still don't think it's good enough against most of the field.
This thread is going to be closed for now as Modern sub does some data benchmark renovations. For now, yall can use the Meta thread for future meta game discussions. A new benchmark thread will be up soon.
DS keeps Tron decks in check. DS also keeps Infect down because it's a bad matchup (removal plus discard plus fast clock).
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Staffmakes sense then, Death's Shadow has kinda forced a few decks down
Plus keeps most of jund's good matchups as well. The deck is extremely powerful. I just don't see any reason to play traditional jund anymore. Perhaps we can finally get that bloodbraid elf unban?
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StaffMentor is a pretty good "plan B" for cheeri0s but other than that, not really. I played an esper mentor list with death's shadow a few years ago (WAY before DS was cool
It is a good card for sure and it may pop into modern at some point but we don't have the early ramp that legacy has to get it out early enough to take advantage of, nor a good enough collection of cheap (free) spells to actually get it going once it hits. A lot of the cheap cantrips that a mentor deck would want aren't spells (architects of will and street wraith) so you are just better off using these to fuel delirium or delve or goyfs.
Mentor is a 3-drop that does nothing when it comes down, dies to everything, and requires multiple other spells to make him relevant. Young Pyromancer offers 80-85% of the value at 66% the cost, and even THAT doesn't see much play. Without free counterspells to protect him (like Daze/FoW), he's pretty bad in a format where most decks mainboard 3-8 removal spells.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
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Staffyeah, I kinda came to teh conclusion after making the post, guess it's really easy to stop. Guess there was a reason people stopped playing it in modern not long after trying it
If he cost 1W and was otherwise identical to YP, but with Prowess on himself alone, he would be amazing. As it stands, he's too much "win more."
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
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Staffwin more is the best way to put it, he just lets you get further ahead on a board state you're already ahead on
- Lots of blue-based control (grixis, jeskai, esper)
- Lots of Tron
- Lots of midrange
- A scattering of decks like affinity/infect
- A scattering of ad nauseam/storm
- A reasonable amount of death's shadow.
- Bogles! Seems to be well-represented as well.
Interestingly though, at a large scg tournament last week (116 players), there were 6 death's shadow decks at the absolute bottom tables facing off against each other (I was among them, it was ridiculous), and two lucky death's shadow players in the top 8 (watching them play was painful, topdeck the Battle-rage exactly when you need it, handshake haha). The metagame was hostile to say the least & you needed a lot of luck to dodge matchups or draw the right half of your deck as a shadow player. I drew badly all day and felt deflated by the end of it.
It's a funny metagame. I think big-mana is underrepresented in a big way. Makes me think scapeshift might be a good outside choice.
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Staffhas anyone else been seeing this deck?
That's been around for maybe a couple of months. Sounds a lot like this:
https://www.channelfireball.com/videos/modern-monday-abzan-sneks/
UBRGrixis Kiki Control
BGUSultai Shadow
GWRBushwhacker Zoo
EDH:
BGU Sidisi, Brood Tyrant
UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose
GWU Roon of the Hidden Realm
Still putting up enough results here and there mainly, it's pretty common in some areas still cause paper meta change a lot slower. Wouldn't be surprised to see it drop off into Tier 3 or lower next update though.
Nothing big at all, but the tier system looks at stuff like GPTs, PPTQs, States, IQs, MTGO Leagues, etc. Just going 4-1 or better in an MTGO League gets counted according to Nexus, so no it's not putting up results in Opens/GPs but it is or was still prevalent enough back when the last update occurred to be tier 2.
*Edit*
I just double checked Nexus and idk where you're even seeing Nahiri at Tier 2, they've got it at Tier 3. If you're simply going by what subforum the primer is in that's silly cause that's always months behind.
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Staffyeah that's it, guess it just increased in popularity over the past month or so
as for Jeskai Nahiri, I haven't seen anyone else on the deck since the WMCQ I played in in September. I was really late in getting off the deck, when I gave up on it in February.
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It's "Tier 1" because the definitions of Tier 1 have been changed. Though, it has been on the rise because it beats up on a handful of the top decks (notably Death's Shadow and Eldrazi). I'd wait until some real events come in with results to make a determination though. I still don't think it's good enough against most of the field.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/773038-state-of-modern-thread-bans-format-health-reprints