I don't understand the DTT ban. This quote from Wizards is flat out untrue: "In Modern, these cards are easy replacements for one another—while a Delver deck might use Treasure Cruise over Dig Through Time, banning one but not the other would do little to change the deck. Dig Through Time and Treasure Cruise are banned."
TC and Pod ban make sense.
Lack of meaningful unbans is ridiculous.
I completely agree. And to think that I actually had faith in Wizards after their decisions at the last Pro Tour. Dig in no way needed a ban!
Well I am no longer playing modern... I don't have a deck any more.
Do I quit?... I mean I spent several years trying to collect a birthing pod deck.. and it was all for naught I mean I couldn't even get it to an acceptable compedative level before it got banned.
Pretty much wasted a lot of time and money since MM1, I am stunned. I just don't know what to do now. What do I do with the wreakage of the deck?
Try and sell the good pieces and move on to something else I guess.
GGT unbanned is nice I guess, but I am completely in shock that Wizards didn't unban Bloodbraid Elf or Ancestral Visions and instead banned both Cruise and Dig as well as Pod.
I'm not. All those cards are overpowered.
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MODERN RGB Jund BGR WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY RUGB Delver GURB
EDH UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR BBB Skithiryx Control BB
Oh, and to top the cake off, we get a naturally occuring Denial of Service attack on the Wizards website. They've done something so snip that sheer number of people coming to hear their "reasoning" and confirm the decision have brought down their website.
Yeah stuff like Mono-Green Stompy, Elves, Nykthos Green. None of them are Tier 1 currently though
Boggles, RG Breach, Living End, and GW Hatebears are all green decks that don't run goyf that are at least in the established section. Scapeshift is technically green too and is Tier 1-ish.
Understand, Dredge is not really a Magic: The Gathering deck. When a card is playable in it, it doesn't mean it's a tournament playable card. It means it's playable in whatever crazy fantasy world that Dredge operates in.
That might be true, but the only way that Wizards could find out if Dig could just replace Cruise in Delver decks is by letting Dig stay legal for another few months. Banning Dig at the same time does not allow us to see whether it would just replace Cruise perfectly.
At risk of being another "WOTC doesn't know what they are doing!" post, I'll just complain from a personal standpoint. Got in to modern just prior to KTK and built up UWR control. Then KTK drops, and that deck gets much worse. Ok cool, invest in Scapeshift while slowly piecing together a pod list. Now Dig AND Pod get banned?? I just can't seem to find a deck that I can play. Maybe I can go back to UWR now, except Junk is going to be the deck to beat now.
I really don't understand the Dig ban. UU is a significant difference to the spell. You aren't going to jam it into burn, and it allows better consistency to combo and control decks. And I feel like Pod has always been a top deck, helped lately by the fact that so many people are playing delver (partially helped by the fact that it's one of the cheaper modern decks to make for new players). I don't see the point of banning a deck that has so many different build options. I wonder how many people only have pod as a deck in modern and are now hosed.
Edit: To people saying pod is too consistent: do we want the format to be won by decks that are inconsistent? Doesn't that take a lot of the skill out of it and make the game much more random? Building a solid consistent deck should be rewarded, not punished. Pod was beatable, but most of the decks that can beat it are torn down by delver.
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Modern: UWR Breach, UWB Esper control
Legacy: UW RiP/Helm, UR Sneak and Show
Anybody want to buy some Dig Through Times and Pods?
I'm not surprised by the bans. I figured if TC was going to go, Pod had to go. And honestly, Dig is not that much different than TC, and can even be better. I was hoping to get a little more time with Dig since I never even played with it in a tournament, but that's life.
Grave-Troll is overdue. It will shake up the format, which will be interesting to see. Just bought 4 Vengevines. Hopefully that pays off.
To all Pod players out there, I'm truly sorry. My best friend plays Pod, and when I gave him the news, he just sighed and said "...guess I need to buy some Goyfs now..."
Same here. Shoutout to all of you who lost >$100 for the "improvement" of the modern meta.
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My lame attempt at humor...
Why does everyone in Bant hate the Lord of Riots? 'Cause they're all, Rakdos-intolerant! Awwww, yeah...
So we go back to a format where 4 dark Confidant, 4 Liliana of the Veil, and 4 Tarmogoyf are the defining cards? This is where it is heading. Heck, Affinity was splashing Goyf in some instances. This is just frustrating. Frustrating for the loss many have just taken on their collections and hard work over time. Frustrating because accessing the format just became more difficult. Just frustrating. But hey, Wizards makes their money off of Standard and Limited and everything is perfect there!!!
I guess we can infer that wizards wants to keep the overall power-level down - we would have seen unbans otherwise. If their desire is to increase deck diversity, cutting the most powerful cards is a way to get there.
edit: That is if it doesn't unleash a more oppressive monster that otherwise was being held down by pod.
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Modern Decks
KnightfallGWUR
Azorius Control UW
Burn RBG
Hi there. First post on these forums, but I've been lurking for a long time now, trying to save up some cash to maybe buy a cool modern deck.
I have to say though, while I don't have a lot of money, I'm absolutely disappointed with these banlist changes, and I am really patting myself on the back for not splurging out and buying a deck last Christmas. After seeing this, I'm not sure if I even want to play on paper anymore, not if they'll take a pillar of the modern format like birthing pod and just ban it outright, especially since there were 3-4 decks that were created from it. As for Treasure Cruise and Dig Through Time, I actually liked having them in the format and playing with and against them on Cockatrice. They spiced things up quite a bit. While I understand the potential need to ban Treasure Cruise, Dig Through Time was uncalled for in my opinion.
Doing bans like this just makes me think "Why should I even invest in this format if they're going to ban all of the interesting cards and make me lose money?"
The lack of unbans here is really frustrating. Grave-Troll is one of my favourite cards of all time, but it's not going to do anything to combat BGx, which will almost-definitely be the deck to beat again. I think a much better solution to the problem of Delver + Pod would've been to make a few really meaningful unbans (Sword of the Meek, Bloodbraid Elf, Ancestral Vision, Second Sunrise) and let some decks that needed power boosts get them rather than nerfing the kings-of-the-hill.
Well this is just ridiculous. Instead of making Modern a more powerful format that is able to self-regulate, they cut out the format's heart. I think I may quit Modern now, I'll come back when modern is a real format.
That might be true, but the only way that Wizards could find out if Dig could just replace Cruise in Delver decks is by letting Dig stay legal for another few months. Banning Dig at the same time does not allow us to see whether it would just replace Cruise perfectly.
That might be true, but the only way that Wizards could find out if Dig could just replace Cruise in Delver decks is by letting Dig stay legal for another few months. Banning Dig at the same time does not allow us to see whether it would just replace Cruise perfectly.
actually dig wouldnt replace cruise, delver would die and now twin scapeshift and ascendancy would be broken. Wizards knew this and did what was right before it happened. look at scapeshifts numbers even with oppressive delver around.
Oh, and to top the cake off, we get a naturally occuring Denial of Service attack on the Wizards website. They've done something so retarded that sheer number of people coming to hear their "reasoning" and confirm the decision have brought down their website. Rolleyes
after KTK rotates from standard Treasure Cruise is going to be banned from Magic basically. Great job R&D!
My first thought exactly.
Although i didn't play pod i really enjoyed playing against it, it is complex deck and i will miss it in the meta. Dig is good ban because without delver scapeshift and twin would be too good with it. I'm disappointed there is no AV and BBE unbanns, as well as seat of the synod, or sword of the meek as well.
Last thought, can you guys think of a tier 1 deck that didn't get banns from the start of the format, and how is it regulated in the meta?
Affinity is constantly tier 1 and is regulated by hate cards, wizards should really see that as example of how to fix meta.....print more sb hate cards....
People complaining about clearly overpowered cards calling it the end of modern is just your standard shtick everytime something gets shaken up. They say they'll quit MtG and never play again and they're back building the next netdeck that places in a tournament 2 weeks later. Wizards knows this, and they'd rather have more variety. UWR and BGx decks are easy to interact with and destroy with a solid deck.
TC/DTT made discard very poor. Pod was a green sun zenith on a stick.
Nobody is DDoSing the Wizard's site. The Wizard's site is garbage and can't handle the traffic, that's all.
It used to be offensive to be called a netdecker 10 years ago when playing Magic, now if you show up to a tournament with something that isn't copy pasted from the internet people sigh and roll their eyes. There's trillions of theoretical card combinations, make something that you're proud of and enjoy playing; it's unlikely your deck will be banned.
Wow. This frustrates me to no end. I understand that Pod was a good deck - kinda in the same shoes as Jund was once. But Jund got nerfed, not beheaded, and they could have done the same to Pod. Taken Rhino, any or all combo-pieces or whatever and Pod would have survived, like Jund - weaker and more fair. But without the engine itself?
Too harsh, Wizards, way too harsh.
Why ban perfectly fine cards like Siege Rhino, Restoration Angel or Kitchen Finks? Other decks would be punished too and those cards are not the problem. Birthing Pod is. Removing the combo pieces would have done nothing since most Pod decks have become pure value decks without any combos at all.
There was no reasonable way to nerf Birthing Pod.
Jund is playing the best cards that are all independently powerful. That's why you could ban something from it without destroying the whole deck. The same thing is not true for Pod.
Well this is just ridiculous. Instead of making Modern a more powerful format that is able to self-regulate, they cut out the format's heart. I think I may quit Modern now, I'll come back when modern is a real format.
The point was they didn't want Modern to be a more powerful format.
Joy.
I completely agree. And to think that I actually had faith in Wizards after their decisions at the last Pro Tour. Dig in no way needed a ban!
Try and sell the good pieces and move on to something else I guess.
I completely agree. Even no changes would have been better than this.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
I'm not. All those cards are overpowered.
RGB Jund BGR
WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY
RUGB Delver GURB
EDH
UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU
RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR
BBB Skithiryx Control BB
Not really feeling like staring down $200 2 mana 4/5 with no cards in hand.
Inappropriate Language warning issued. Lantern
Commander
U Tetsuko Umezawa, Fugitive
RG Zilortha, Strength Incarnate
WU Yorion, Sky Nomad
Would have have complained if Scapeshift, Twin and UWR Jeskai Ascendency ruled the format?
Modern:
Something new every week
Legacy:
Something new everyweek
FREE BLOODBRAID ELF
That might be true, but the only way that Wizards could find out if Dig could just replace Cruise in Delver decks is by letting Dig stay legal for another few months. Banning Dig at the same time does not allow us to see whether it would just replace Cruise perfectly.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
I really don't understand the Dig ban. UU is a significant difference to the spell. You aren't going to jam it into burn, and it allows better consistency to combo and control decks. And I feel like Pod has always been a top deck, helped lately by the fact that so many people are playing delver (partially helped by the fact that it's one of the cheaper modern decks to make for new players). I don't see the point of banning a deck that has so many different build options. I wonder how many people only have pod as a deck in modern and are now hosed.
Edit: To people saying pod is too consistent: do we want the format to be won by decks that are inconsistent? Doesn't that take a lot of the skill out of it and make the game much more random? Building a solid consistent deck should be rewarded, not punished. Pod was beatable, but most of the decks that can beat it are torn down by delver.
Legacy: UW RiP/Helm, UR Sneak and Show
Same here. Shoutout to all of you who lost >$100 for the "improvement" of the modern meta.
My lame attempt at humor...
Why does everyone in Bant hate the Lord of Riots? 'Cause they're all, Rakdos-intolerant! Awwww, yeah...
edit: That is if it doesn't unleash a more oppressive monster that otherwise was being held down by pod.
KnightfallGWUR
Azorius Control UW
Burn RBG
I have to say though, while I don't have a lot of money, I'm absolutely disappointed with these banlist changes, and I am really patting myself on the back for not splurging out and buying a deck last Christmas. After seeing this, I'm not sure if I even want to play on paper anymore, not if they'll take a pillar of the modern format like birthing pod and just ban it outright, especially since there were 3-4 decks that were created from it. As for Treasure Cruise and Dig Through Time, I actually liked having them in the format and playing with and against them on Cockatrice. They spiced things up quite a bit. While I understand the potential need to ban Treasure Cruise, Dig Through Time was uncalled for in my opinion.
Doing bans like this just makes me think "Why should I even invest in this format if they're going to ban all of the interesting cards and make me lose money?"
| Omnath | Zada | Alesha | Scion |
| Mazirek | Animar |
Modern
UR Storm RU
UBRG Dredge GRBU
Standard
UR Thermo-Thing RU
actually dig wouldnt replace cruise, delver would die and now twin scapeshift and ascendancy would be broken. Wizards knew this and did what was right before it happened. look at scapeshifts numbers even with oppressive delver around.
decks playing:
none
lolzers
My first thought exactly.
Although i didn't play pod i really enjoyed playing against it, it is complex deck and i will miss it in the meta. Dig is good ban because without delver scapeshift and twin would be too good with it. I'm disappointed there is no AV and BBE unbanns, as well as seat of the synod, or sword of the meek as well.
Last thought, can you guys think of a tier 1 deck that didn't get banns from the start of the format, and how is it regulated in the meta?
Affinity is constantly tier 1 and is regulated by hate cards, wizards should really see that as example of how to fix meta.....print more sb hate cards....
TC/DTT made discard very poor. Pod was a green sun zenith on a stick.
Nobody is DDoSing the Wizard's site. The Wizard's site is garbage and can't handle the traffic, that's all.
It used to be offensive to be called a netdecker 10 years ago when playing Magic, now if you show up to a tournament with something that isn't copy pasted from the internet people sigh and roll their eyes. There's trillions of theoretical card combinations, make something that you're proud of and enjoy playing; it's unlikely your deck will be banned.
Why ban perfectly fine cards like Siege Rhino, Restoration Angel or Kitchen Finks? Other decks would be punished too and those cards are not the problem. Birthing Pod is. Removing the combo pieces would have done nothing since most Pod decks have become pure value decks without any combos at all.
There was no reasonable way to nerf Birthing Pod.
Jund is playing the best cards that are all independently powerful. That's why you could ban something from it without destroying the whole deck. The same thing is not true for Pod.
That's just how it is.
Commander
U Tetsuko Umezawa, Fugitive
RG Zilortha, Strength Incarnate
WU Yorion, Sky Nomad