Fair enough. (Was right about there being 2 though)
I was comparing how many made day 2 to how many made it to 21 or better so perhaps its all about the specific list.
Might also notice whille burn was a little off It was also top of the tables as far as results go, MTGMint really metagamed thier deck just right.
As a side note I can't help but feel a little proud that the two people from my Local game store are even in that list at all. With thier 4 of Tasigur Junk with 4 nyx-fleece rams in the sideboard.
Zoo is a fine and powerful deck, but not poised for sucess against a sea of midrange. It needs stuff like twin or scapeshift to be a fair part of the meta. Junk being 28% it wont do well.
Without Draft, Zoo would have made it to the top 8.
(27) ESPOSITO - ROBOTS
(27) HILL - UG INFECT
(27) YAM - RDW
(25) LEE - RDW
(24) WILSON - ANTI ABZAN
(24) BIRCH - TRIBAL ZOO
(24) CHRONOPOULOS - BLOOM TITAN
(24) FINKEL - UG INFECT
(24) GROVE - BLOOM TITAN
(24) HAMPTON - JUNK
(24) PARK JS - JUND
(24) MANNER - JUNK
(24) MCCLAIN - ANTI ABZAN
(24) NIELSEN - LIVING END
(24) RAMBOA - RG TRON
(24) RAVITZ - UG INFECT
(24) KIM SE - RDW
(24) SWIFT - UG INFECT
(24) WIJAYA - JUNK
(23) DE MORAL - UR TEMPO TWIN
(23) FROEHLICH - JUNK
(22) BLACK - BLOOM TITAN
(22) COHEN - BLOOM TITAN
(21) ANDERSON - URB TWIN (Dickmann Version)
(21) BADRAN - JUNK (4 Fulminator MD)
(21) BAECKSTROM - UR TEMPO TWIN
(21) BISTERFELD - SOUL SISTERS (2 Archangel of Thune MD)
(21) BURSAVICH - UG INFECT
(21) CHUNG - RDW
(21) DELANO - ** missing list! **
(21) DOMINGUEZ - UG INFECT
(21) DOSHI - JUNK
(21) EDEL - JUNK
(21) FEHR - UW MIDRANGE (4 Finks, 3 Resto, 3 Wall of Omens MD)
(21) GLEICHER - RG TRON
(21) JACKSON - JUNK
(21) JENSEN - UG INFECT
(21) JUZA - WB TOKENS
(21) KARSTEN - ROBOTS
(21) KIBLER - ANTI ABZAN
(21) KIRSCH - MERFOLK
(21) LEE - JUNK
(21) LEVY - JUND SMALLPOX/LOAM
(21) LOMBARDI - MERFOLK
(21) MANN - JUNK
(21) MAYNARD - JUNK
(21) MERRIAM - RDW
(21) MURRAY - LIVING END
(21) NAKAMURA A. - RG TRON
(21) NAKAMURA S. - UW CONTROL
(21) NASS - JUNK
(21) OCHOA - JUNK
(21) RIETZL - ROBOTS
(21) ROMERO - UWR GEIST MIDRANGE
(21) RUBIN - NAYA ZOO
(21) STENBORG - RDW
(21) TAKIMURA - UR TEMPO TWIN (4 Blood Moon MD)
(21) TURTENWALD - UG INFECT
(21) VIDUGIRIS - UG INFECT
(21) WALTER - UR STORM
(21) WINN - ROBOTS
(21) YETKA - JUNK (Splash R / MD 1 Slaughter Games)
(20) WIEGERSMA - UR TEMPO TWIN (2 Blood Moon MD)
(19) MANFIELD - RDW
ktkenshinx, while I agree with your views and opinions most of the time, commiting to statements like Blue-Based control save us, when blue based control has dissapeared from the modern map, when people argue that more land hate is needed which kills three control in effect, and when you make that statement refering to the definition of a combo deck, well it kinda blurs the whole thing of.
Twin is not a control deck.
Also, this pro tour wasn't half as exciting imo, compared to Pro Tour BNG.
Twin is combo-control just like Scapeshift.
The speed is different. From my point of view:
Twin is combo-tempo
Scapeshift is indeed combo-control
I sure hope something will be done about Amulet deck. Having potential of a turn 2 kill (and regularly doing it on turn 3 or 4 with backup...) is just too much for modern.
Btw, did aynone notice that Bill Chronopoulos also played Amulet and had 8-2 score with it in modern portion? Those are some very impressive stats for a deck that was only a fraction of the playing field...
edit. Kevin Grove also had 8-2 with Amulet in the modern section... Deck overperformed...
Whenever Junk gets hated out by Amulet, control decks can prey on this particular deck with ease. Both Faeries and UR Blue Moon, but also UW Control, pair especially well against the deck.
100% of faeries player made day 2. reban bitterblossom!
It's too soon to make calls like that against amulet bloom. It's a combo deck that's very shaky when it comes to protecting it's combo. It's a solid deck, but it requires a lot of knowledge, look at how long cohen took to play in all his top 8 matches, having 2 killing combo's make for diluted combo's, and pieces that don't always play right. I think it's one of those decks that the pro's talk about being exhausting to play at a GP / PT because of how much work and mental stress goes into playing it. Also as we saw it gets wrecked by tempo permission, or hand disruption. I think on power it's a t1 deck, but it's downsides are really huge downsides, and since it's so hard to pilot I think it will never make it above t1.5, and wizards shouldn't worry about it unless they print a card that simplifies the combo's.
Interesting filtered results.
The top-8 has no Twin involved, which is the champion in this PT...
This is just the modern portion, not sealed / limited. Cohen finished with 22 points, which put him in 23rd place. But keep in mind that he and sam black drew in the second to last round so they could both play for top 8.
Zoo is a fine and powerful deck, but not poised for sucess against a sea of midrange. It needs stuff like twin or scapeshift to be a fair part of the meta. Junk being 28% it wont do well.
Without Draft, Zoo would have made it to the top 8.
(27) ESPOSITO - ROBOTS
(27) HILL - UG INFECT
(27) YAM - RDW
(25) LEE - RDW
(24) WILSON - ANTI ABZAN
(24) BIRCH - TRIBAL ZOO
(24) CHRONOPOULOS - BLOOM TITAN
(24) FINKEL - UG INFECT
(24) GROVE - BLOOM TITAN
(24) HAMPTON - JUNK
(24) PARK JS - JUND
(24) MANNER - JUNK
(24) MCCLAIN - ANTI ABZAN
(24) NIELSEN - LIVING END
(24) RAMBOA - RG TRON
(24) RAVITZ - UG INFECT
(24) KIM SE - RDW
(24) SWIFT - UG INFECT
(24) WIJAYA - JUNK
(23) DE MORAL - UR TEMPO TWIN
(23) FROEHLICH - JUNK
(22) BLACK - BLOOM TITAN
(22) COHEN - BLOOM TITAN
(21) ANDERSON - URB TWIN (Dickmann Version)
(21) BADRAN - JUNK (4 Fulminator MD)
(21) BAECKSTROM - UR TEMPO TWIN
(21) BISTERFELD - SOUL SISTERS (2 Archangel of Thune MD)
(21) BURSAVICH - UG INFECT
(21) CHUNG - RDW
(21) DELANO - ** missing list! **
(21) DOMINGUEZ - UG INFECT
(21) DOSHI - JUNK
(21) EDEL - JUNK
(21) FEHR - UW MIDRANGE (4 Finks, 3 Resto, 3 Wall of Omens MD)
(21) GLEICHER - RG TRON
(21) JACKSON - JUNK
(21) JENSEN - UG INFECT
(21) JUZA - WB TOKENS
(21) KARSTEN - ROBOTS
(21) KIBLER - ANTI ABZAN
(21) KIRSCH - MERFOLK
(21) LEE - JUNK
(21) LEVY - JUND SMALLPOX/LOAM
(21) LOMBARDI - MERFOLK
(21) MANN - JUNK
(21) MAYNARD - JUNK
(21) MERRIAM - RDW
(21) MURRAY - LIVING END
(21) NAKAMURA A. - RG TRON
(21) NAKAMURA S. - UW CONTROL
(21) NASS - JUNK
(21) OCHOA - JUNK
(21) RIETZL - ROBOTS
(21) ROMERO - UWR GEIST MIDRANGE
(21) RUBIN - NAYA ZOO
(21) STENBORG - RDW
(21) TAKIMURA - UR TEMPO TWIN (4 Blood Moon MD)
(21) TURTENWALD - UG INFECT
(21) VIDUGIRIS - UG INFECT
(21) WALTER - UR STORM
(21) WINN - ROBOTS
(21) YETKA - JUNK (Splash R / MD 1 Slaughter Games)
(20) WIEGERSMA - UR TEMPO TWIN (2 Blood Moon MD)
(19) MANFIELD - RDW
ktkenshinx, while I agree with your views and opinions most of the time, commiting to statements like Blue-Based control save us, when blue based control has dissapeared from the modern map, when people argue that more land hate is needed which kills three control in effect, and when you make that statement refering to the definition of a combo deck, well it kinda blurs the whole thing of.
Twin is not a control deck.
Also, this pro tour wasn't half as exciting imo, compared to Pro Tour BNG.
Twin is combo-control just like Scapeshift.
The speed is different. From my point of view:
Twin is combo-tempo
Scapeshift is indeed combo-control
I sure hope something will be done about Amulet deck. Having potential of a turn 2 kill (and regularly doing it on turn 3 or 4 with backup...) is just too much for modern.
Btw, did aynone notice that Bill Chronopoulos also played Amulet and had 8-2 score with it in modern portion? Those are some very impressive stats for a deck that was only a fraction of the playing field...
edit. Kevin Grove also had 8-2 with Amulet in the modern section... Deck overperformed...
Whenever Junk gets hated out by Amulet, control decks can prey on this particular deck with ease. Both Faeries and UR Blue Moon, but also UW Control, pair especially well against the deck.
To be honest Im not convinced that Amulet is favored against Junk no matter what Cohen and Black claim.
Jesse Hampton would have won the match 2-0 if he wouldn't have basically thrown the second game away by discarding the wrong cards. Even the third game was very close and that was with a Primeval Titan and a Hornet Queen resolving and Cohen only won there because he topdecked incredibly with the Titan trigger despite an Aven Mindcensor being in play.
100% of faeries player made day 2. reban bitterblossom!
It's too soon to make calls like that against amulet bloom. It's a combo deck that's very shaky when it comes to protecting it's combo. It's a solid deck, but it requires a lot of knowledge, look at how long cohen took to play in all his top 8 matches, having 2 killing combo's make for diluted combo's, and pieces that don't always play right. I think it's one of those decks that the pro's talk about being exhausting to play at a GP / PT because of how much work and mental stress goes into playing it. Also as we saw it gets wrecked by tempo permission, or hand disruption. I think on power it's a t1 deck, but it's downsides are really huge downsides, and since it's so hard to pilot I think it will never make it above t1.5, and wizards shouldn't worry about it unless they print a card that simplifies the combo's.
Interesting filtered results.
The top-8 has no Twin involved, which is the champion in this PT...
This is just the modern portion, not sealed / limited. Cohen finished with 22 points, which put him in 23rd place. But keep in mind that he and sam black drew in the second to last round so they could both play for top 8.
Yes I know. It means that from the Modern perspective, Twin is not that good, and Zoo is not that bad. The reason Twin gets 2 Top-8 in this PT, and Zoo gets zero Top-8, is because of the influence from the draft results.
Zoo is a fine and powerful deck, but not poised for sucess against a sea of midrange. It needs stuff like twin or scapeshift to be a fair part of the meta. Junk being 28% it wont do well.
Without Draft, Zoo would have made it to the top 8.
(27) ESPOSITO - ROBOTS
(27) HILL - UG INFECT
(27) YAM - RDW
(25) LEE - RDW
(24) WILSON - ANTI ABZAN
(24) BIRCH - TRIBAL ZOO
(24) CHRONOPOULOS - BLOOM TITAN
(24) FINKEL - UG INFECT
(24) GROVE - BLOOM TITAN
(24) HAMPTON - JUNK
(24) PARK JS - JUND
(24) MANNER - JUNK
(24) MCCLAIN - ANTI ABZAN
(24) NIELSEN - LIVING END
(24) RAMBOA - RG TRON
(24) RAVITZ - UG INFECT
(24) KIM SE - RDW
(24) SWIFT - UG INFECT
(24) WIJAYA - JUNK
(23) DE MORAL - UR TEMPO TWIN
(23) FROEHLICH - JUNK
(22) BLACK - BLOOM TITAN
(22) COHEN - BLOOM TITAN
(21) ANDERSON - URB TWIN (Dickmann Version)
(21) BADRAN - JUNK (4 Fulminator MD)
(21) BAECKSTROM - UR TEMPO TWIN
(21) BISTERFELD - SOUL SISTERS (2 Archangel of Thune MD)
(21) BURSAVICH - UG INFECT
(21) CHUNG - RDW
(21) DELANO - ** missing list! **
(21) DOMINGUEZ - UG INFECT
(21) DOSHI - JUNK
(21) EDEL - JUNK
(21) FEHR - UW MIDRANGE (4 Finks, 3 Resto, 3 Wall of Omens MD)
(21) GLEICHER - RG TRON
(21) JACKSON - JUNK
(21) JENSEN - UG INFECT
(21) JUZA - WB TOKENS
(21) KARSTEN - ROBOTS
(21) KIBLER - ANTI ABZAN
(21) KIRSCH - MERFOLK
(21) LEE - JUNK
(21) LEVY - JUND SMALLPOX/LOAM
(21) LOMBARDI - MERFOLK
(21) MANN - JUNK
(21) MAYNARD - JUNK
(21) MERRIAM - RDW
(21) MURRAY - LIVING END
(21) NAKAMURA A. - RG TRON
(21) NAKAMURA S. - UW CONTROL
(21) NASS - JUNK
(21) OCHOA - JUNK
(21) RIETZL - ROBOTS
(21) ROMERO - UWR GEIST MIDRANGE
(21) RUBIN - NAYA ZOO
(21) STENBORG - RDW
(21) TAKIMURA - UR TEMPO TWIN (4 Blood Moon MD)
(21) TURTENWALD - UG INFECT
(21) VIDUGIRIS - UG INFECT
(21) WALTER - UR STORM
(21) WINN - ROBOTS
(21) YETKA - JUNK (Splash R / MD 1 Slaughter Games)
(20) WIEGERSMA - UR TEMPO TWIN (2 Blood Moon MD)
(19) MANFIELD - RDW
ktkenshinx, while I agree with your views and opinions most of the time, commiting to statements like Blue-Based control save us, when blue based control has dissapeared from the modern map, when people argue that more land hate is needed which kills three control in effect, and when you make that statement refering to the definition of a combo deck, well it kinda blurs the whole thing of.
Twin is not a control deck.
Also, this pro tour wasn't half as exciting imo, compared to Pro Tour BNG.
Twin is combo-control just like Scapeshift.
The speed is different. From my point of view:
Twin is combo-tempo
Scapeshift is indeed combo-control
I sure hope something will be done about Amulet deck. Having potential of a turn 2 kill (and regularly doing it on turn 3 or 4 with backup...) is just too much for modern.
Btw, did aynone notice that Bill Chronopoulos also played Amulet and had 8-2 score with it in modern portion? Those are some very impressive stats for a deck that was only a fraction of the playing field...
edit. Kevin Grove also had 8-2 with Amulet in the modern section... Deck overperformed...
Whenever Junk gets hated out by Amulet, control decks can prey on this particular deck with ease. Both Faeries and UR Blue Moon, but also UW Control, pair especially well against the deck.
To be honest Im not convinced that Amulet is favored against Junk no matter what Cohen and Black claim.
Jesse Hampton would have won the match 2-0 if he wouldn't have basically thrown the second game away by discarding the wrong cards. Even the third game was very close and that was with a Primeval Titan and a Hornet Queen resolving and Cohen only won there because he topdecked incredibly with the Titan trigger despite an Aven Mindcensor being in play.
I thin your interpretation based on the SB is not appropriate. After SB, the Twin changes the origin game plan toward control. This does not mean that Twin is a control deck. Right?
If we look at the Twin main deck, this should be classified as a combo-tempo more than combo-control.
-------------
Edit:
Blood Moon is in the main deck, which is a strong control element more than tempo. You are right. Those Twin are kind of combo-control.
Zoo is a fine and powerful deck, but not poised for sucess against a sea of midrange. It needs stuff like twin or scapeshift to be a fair part of the meta. Junk being 28% it wont do well.
Without Draft, Zoo would have made it to the top 8.
(27) ESPOSITO - ROBOTS
(27) HILL - UG INFECT
(27) YAM - RDW
(25) LEE - RDW
(24) WILSON - ANTI ABZAN
(24) BIRCH - TRIBAL ZOO
(24) CHRONOPOULOS - BLOOM TITAN
(24) FINKEL - UG INFECT
(24) GROVE - BLOOM TITAN
(24) HAMPTON - JUNK
(24) PARK JS - JUND
(24) MANNER - JUNK
(24) MCCLAIN - ANTI ABZAN
(24) NIELSEN - LIVING END
(24) RAMBOA - RG TRON
(24) RAVITZ - UG INFECT
(24) KIM SE - RDW
(24) SWIFT - UG INFECT
(24) WIJAYA - JUNK
(23) DE MORAL - UR TEMPO TWIN
(23) FROEHLICH - JUNK
(22) BLACK - BLOOM TITAN
(22) COHEN - BLOOM TITAN
(21) ANDERSON - URB TWIN (Dickmann Version)
(21) BADRAN - JUNK (4 Fulminator MD)
(21) BAECKSTROM - UR TEMPO TWIN
(21) BISTERFELD - SOUL SISTERS (2 Archangel of Thune MD)
(21) BURSAVICH - UG INFECT
(21) CHUNG - RDW
(21) DELANO - ** missing list! **
(21) DOMINGUEZ - UG INFECT
(21) DOSHI - JUNK
(21) EDEL - JUNK
(21) FEHR - UW MIDRANGE (4 Finks, 3 Resto, 3 Wall of Omens MD)
(21) GLEICHER - RG TRON
(21) JACKSON - JUNK
(21) JENSEN - UG INFECT
(21) JUZA - WB TOKENS
(21) KARSTEN - ROBOTS
(21) KIBLER - ANTI ABZAN
(21) KIRSCH - MERFOLK
(21) LEE - JUNK
(21) LEVY - JUND SMALLPOX/LOAM
(21) LOMBARDI - MERFOLK
(21) MANN - JUNK
(21) MAYNARD - JUNK
(21) MERRIAM - RDW
(21) MURRAY - LIVING END
(21) NAKAMURA A. - RG TRON
(21) NAKAMURA S. - UW CONTROL
(21) NASS - JUNK
(21) OCHOA - JUNK
(21) RIETZL - ROBOTS
(21) ROMERO - UWR GEIST MIDRANGE
(21) RUBIN - NAYA ZOO
(21) STENBORG - RDW
(21) TAKIMURA - UR TEMPO TWIN (4 Blood Moon MD)
(21) TURTENWALD - UG INFECT
(21) VIDUGIRIS - UG INFECT
(21) WALTER - UR STORM
(21) WINN - ROBOTS
(21) YETKA - JUNK (Splash R / MD 1 Slaughter Games)
(20) WIEGERSMA - UR TEMPO TWIN (2 Blood Moon MD)
(19) MANFIELD - RDW
ktkenshinx, while I agree with your views and opinions most of the time, commiting to statements like Blue-Based control save us, when blue based control has dissapeared from the modern map, when people argue that more land hate is needed which kills three control in effect, and when you make that statement refering to the definition of a combo deck, well it kinda blurs the whole thing of.
Twin is not a control deck.
Also, this pro tour wasn't half as exciting imo, compared to Pro Tour BNG.
Twin is combo-control just like Scapeshift.
The speed is different. From my point of view:
Twin is combo-tempo
Scapeshift is indeed combo-control
I sure hope something will be done about Amulet deck. Having potential of a turn 2 kill (and regularly doing it on turn 3 or 4 with backup...) is just too much for modern.
Btw, did aynone notice that Bill Chronopoulos also played Amulet and had 8-2 score with it in modern portion? Those are some very impressive stats for a deck that was only a fraction of the playing field...
edit. Kevin Grove also had 8-2 with Amulet in the modern section... Deck overperformed...
Whenever Junk gets hated out by Amulet, control decks can prey on this particular deck with ease. Both Faeries and UR Blue Moon, but also UW Control, pair especially well against the deck.
To be honest Im not convinced that Amulet is favored against Junk no matter what Cohen and Black claim.
Jesse Hampton would have won the match 2-0 if he wouldn't have basically thrown the second game away by discarding the wrong cards. Even the third game was very close and that was with a Primeval Titan and a Hornet Queen resolving and Cohen only won there because he topdecked incredibly with the Titan trigger despite an Aven Mindcensor being in play.
I thin your interpretation based on the SB is not appropriate. After SB, the Twin changes the origin game plan toward control. This does not mean that Twin is a control deck. Right?
If we look at the Twin main deck, this should be classified as a combo-tempo more than combo-control.
-------------
Edit:
Blood Moon is in the main deck, which is a strong control element more than tempo. You are right. Those Twin are kind of combo-control.
To be honest I had this discussion in multiple threads already.
It seems like people cannot even actually agree on the archetypes. Some people seem to think that as long as your deck doesn't win on turn 20 with Serra Angel like in 1996 it is not control.
No wonder control is "dead" when people have such narrow views on the matter.
It has the ability to be combo and/or tempo and/or control. Post sideboard against amulet blood moon came in and he could follow up with a pestermite or exarch and swing for 1 a turn for 20 turns and win. Antonio's matchup against shi tan was tempo control, and in the mirror he was combo-rific. It has the ability to do whatever it wants based on the matchup.
I sure hope something will be done about Amulet deck. Having potential of a turn 2 kill (and regularly doing it on turn 3 or 4 with backup...) is just too much for modern.
Btw, did aynone notice that Bill Chronopoulos also played Amulet and had 8-2 score with it in modern portion? Those are some very impressive stats for a deck that was only a fraction of the playing field...
edit. Kevin Grove also had 8-2 with Amulet in the modern section... Deck overperformed...
Whenever Junk gets hated out by Amulet, control decks can prey on this particular deck with ease. Both Faeries and UR Blue Moon, but also UW Control, pair especially well against the deck.
Faeries and UR Blood Moon could fight it perhaps, but I doubt that UW(x) has good matchup against it. Amulet Bloom can win out of nowhere, with zero mana protection spells. Not to mention that it doesn't even have to kill with Titan, taking Path of Exile out of equation.
Basically you beat it through blood moon (if they are unprepared), through quick clock with them having atrocious hand (optimistic) or with faster/more consistent combo (only infect and twin could maybe fit here).
Only thing that Amulet Bloom has going for it against being touched by the banhammer is that its a rather complex deck for average Joe resulting in not so stellar results if you don't know what you're supposed to be doing with the deck.
Sorry but you have clearly not played the deck a lot if you think the Amulet deck is suddenly going to overrun the meta and kill everyone on turn 2. Turn 2 kills are rare (need 5 specific cards out of the first 8 for Titan, 6 out of 8 for Hive Mind), are easily disrupted and half of them rely on hitting with a creature. Any early path (for titan), counter, discard or land destruction sets the deck back badly and makes it hard to play an average game. It's the way a combo deck SHOULD be.
Combos should work that, if not disrupted they win early and fast. If they get disrupted, they are easy to overwhelme. Combos like Splinter Twin breaks this and, if anything should be looked at for banning, it should be twin. Being able to play as a tempo-control deck that just WINS out of nowhere and can sideboard into cards that just take over games, really breaks the balancing act that other combo decks need to face.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying ban twin. I am saying that the power of Amulet comes at a cost, that is hard to aruge in the case of Twin (and to a lesser extent Scapeshift)
To be honest Im not convinced that Amulet is favored against Junk no matter what Cohen and Black claim.
Jesse Hampton would have won the match 2-0 if he wouldn't have basically thrown the second game away by discarding the wrong cards. Even the third game was very close and that was with a Primeval Titan and a Hornet Queen resolving and Cohen only won there because he topdecked incredibly with the Titan trigger despite an Aven Mindcensor being in play.
Amulet seems favored to me, not heavily, because the deck itself is a bit clunky, but going over the top, while ideally being even faster fells like a good spot to be in vs Abzan. Keep in mind that Cohen double "time walked" Jesse in the third game by tutoring Hornet Queen, realizing that he can't play it or he would loose to Fulminator Mage and taking the next turn to pay the pact, instead of just going for Titan.
Still doesn't change that Hampton would have easily won game two by taking both combo pieces leaving Cohen with two lands in play and a bunch of uncastable spells in hand. He also hand a Fulminator Mage in hand to set him back even further or just win the game should Cohen have gone for Slaughter Pacting the Tarmogoyf.
I know that it was a long tournament and that there was a ton of pressure but still giving the game away like that was kinda incredible
To be honest Im not convinced that Amulet is favored against Junk no matter what Cohen and Black claim.
Jesse Hampton would have won the match 2-0 if he wouldn't have basically thrown the second game away by discarding the wrong cards. Even the third game was very close and that was with a Primeval Titan and a Hornet Queen resolving and Cohen only won there because he topdecked incredibly with the Titan trigger despite an Aven Mindcensor being in play.
Amulet seems favored to me, not heavily, because the deck itself is a bit clunky, but going over the top, while ideally being even faster fells like a good spot to be in vs Abzan. Keep in mind that Cohen double "time walked" Jesse in the third game by tutoring Hornet Queen, realizing that he can't play it or he would loose to Fulminator Mage and taking the next turn to pay the pact, instead of just going for Titan.
Still doesn't change that Hampton would have easily won game two by taking both combo pieces leaving Cohen with two lands in play and a bunch of uncastable spells in hand. He also hand a Fulminator Mage in hand to set him back even further or just win the game should Cohen have gone for Slaughter Pacting the Tarmogoyf.
I know that it was a long tournament and that there was a ton of pressure but still giving the game away like that was kinda incredible
Hindsight makes any call/decision much easier.
Taking the Slaughter Pact (which is the deck's only real interaction), with the information he had made sense at the time. Justin has no win-con in hand and no way to find it and no card draw. Gofy was a good clock, something Amulet can have an issue dealing with, especially with their one-of Slaughter Pact gone. It was a risky play, but forcing Amulet into top decking for answers is the best way to beat them. Ramp without something to do is not going to win a game.
To be honest Im not convinced that Amulet is favored against Junk no matter what Cohen and Black claim.
Jesse Hampton would have won the match 2-0 if he wouldn't have basically thrown the second game away by discarding the wrong cards. Even the third game was very close and that was with a Primeval Titan and a Hornet Queen resolving and Cohen only won there because he topdecked incredibly with the Titan trigger despite an Aven Mindcensor being in play.
Amulet seems favored to me, not heavily, because the deck itself is a bit clunky, but going over the top, while ideally being even faster fells like a good spot to be in vs Abzan. Keep in mind that Cohen double "time walked" Jesse in the third game by tutoring Hornet Queen, realizing that he can't play it or he would loose to Fulminator Mage and taking the next turn to pay the pact, instead of just going for Titan.
Still doesn't change that Hampton would have easily won game two by taking both combo pieces leaving Cohen with two lands in play and a bunch of uncastable spells in hand. He also hand a Fulminator Mage in hand to set him back even further or just win the game should Cohen have gone for Slaughter Pacting the Tarmogoyf.
I know that it was a long tournament and that there was a ton of pressure but still giving the game away like that was kinda incredible
Hindsight makes any call/decision much easier.
Taking the Slaughter Pact (which is the deck's only real interaction), with the information he had made sense at the time. Justin has no win-con in hand and no way to find it and no card draw. Gofy was a good clock, something Amulet can have an issue dealing with, especially with their one-of Slaughter Pact gone. It was a risky play, but forcing Amulet into top decking for answers is the best way to beat them. Ramp without something to do is not going to win a game.
But Justin had only two lands in play and no in hand. He couldn't even have casted Slaughter Pact especially with Jesse having Fulminator and plenty of gas left in hand.
And you are right ramp without something to cast is useless but Justin still had the Hornet Queen in hand either way.
Does anyone else feel like draft has no place in a Modern event? It skews the results it gave for the best decks in the format and it is wrong. I am fine with having it as a side event but when players who arent as good in Modern become Modern champions because they draft well it bothers me
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Does anyone else feel like draft has no place in a Modern event? It skews the results it gave for the best decks in the format and it is wrong. I am fine with having it as a side event but when players who arent as good in Modern become Modern champions because they draft well it bothers me
But all of the PTs are mixed format. So instead of draft, what else would you suggest?
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Does anyone else feel like draft has no place in a Modern event? It skews the results it gave for the best decks in the format and it is wrong. I am fine with having it as a side event but when players who arent as good in Modern become Modern champions because they draft well it bothers me
the pro tour is not about the best deck. it is about the best player. and that shows best if you mix the format between limited and constructed.
because in limited it matters much more how good you are as a player.
I sort of like the idea of the Olympics. Have different events at different times with different titles. You can be the best at one event and medal. My LGS has good Modern players and good drafters with little overlap. Have Modern be the main event and you are free to compete in any side event you want. I don't want draft replaced I want the Pro Tour structure changed completely. Do them separately and well instead of together and compromising on both
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It's been a blast all! One of the liveliest and most active discussion we had so far. But with the PT over, it's time to close this thread down and carry on the conversation in the metagame thread or the banlist thread.
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I was comparing how many made day 2 to how many made it to 21 or better so perhaps its all about the specific list.
Might also notice whille burn was a little off It was also top of the tables as far as results go, MTGMint really metagamed thier deck just right.
As a side note I can't help but feel a little proud that the two people from my Local game store are even in that list at all. With thier 4 of Tasigur Junk with 4 nyx-fleece rams in the sideboard.
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
Interesting filtered results.
The top-8 has no Twin involved, which is the champion in this PT...
The speed is different. From my point of view:
Twin is combo-tempo
Scapeshift is indeed combo-control
Anything, but nothing at the moment...
Modern:
WUBRGAmulet Titan, WUBRGHuman
WUBRAd Nauseam, WBRGDeath Shadow, UBRGScapeshift, UBRGDredge
WURJeskai Nahiri, WURCheeri0s, WBGCounter Company, WRGBurn, UBRMadcap Moon, BRGJund Midrange
UBTurn,BRGriselbrand Reanimator, WGKnight Company, RGRG Tron, RGRG Ponza, XAffinity, XEldrazi Tron
Whenever Junk gets hated out by Amulet, control decks can prey on this particular deck with ease. Both Faeries and UR Blue Moon, but also UW Control, pair especially well against the deck.
DECKS:
UB Faeries [Midrange/Tempo]
RWUGB Affinity[Aggro]
FAERIES TOO STRONK!!!1111
- Fae Prophecy, 201
5678It's too soon to make calls like that against amulet bloom. It's a combo deck that's very shaky when it comes to protecting it's combo. It's a solid deck, but it requires a lot of knowledge, look at how long cohen took to play in all his top 8 matches, having 2 killing combo's make for diluted combo's, and pieces that don't always play right. I think it's one of those decks that the pro's talk about being exhausting to play at a GP / PT because of how much work and mental stress goes into playing it. Also as we saw it gets wrecked by tempo permission, or hand disruption. I think on power it's a t1 deck, but it's downsides are really huge downsides, and since it's so hard to pilot I think it will never make it above t1.5, and wizards shouldn't worry about it unless they print a card that simplifies the combo's.
This is just the modern portion, not sealed / limited. Cohen finished with 22 points, which put him in 23rd place. But keep in mind that he and sam black drew in the second to last round so they could both play for top 8.
Well Twin can take out the combo completely and side in cards like Keranos, God of Storms, Batterskull, Vedalken Shackles, Wurmcoil Engine, Anger of the Gods, more countermagic, Threads of Disloyalty, Blood Moon, Jace, Architect of Thought, etc.
That's basically Blue Moon control. I also didn't just name random cards. All these cards were in the sideboards of the two Twin decks that made Top 8.
To be honest Im not convinced that Amulet is favored against Junk no matter what Cohen and Black claim.
Jesse Hampton would have won the match 2-0 if he wouldn't have basically thrown the second game away by discarding the wrong cards. Even the third game was very close and that was with a Primeval Titan and a Hornet Queen resolving and Cohen only won there because he topdecked incredibly with the Titan trigger despite an Aven Mindcensor being in play.
Yes I know. It means that from the Modern perspective, Twin is not that good, and Zoo is not that bad. The reason Twin gets 2 Top-8 in this PT, and Zoo gets zero Top-8, is because of the influence from the draft results.
Anything, but nothing at the moment...
Modern:
WUBRGAmulet Titan, WUBRGHuman
WUBRAd Nauseam, WBRGDeath Shadow, UBRGScapeshift, UBRGDredge
WURJeskai Nahiri, WURCheeri0s, WBGCounter Company, WRGBurn, UBRMadcap Moon, BRGJund Midrange
UBTurn,BRGriselbrand Reanimator, WGKnight Company, RGRG Tron, RGRG Ponza, XAffinity, XEldrazi Tron
That top 8 would be so much cooler
I thin your interpretation based on the SB is not appropriate. After SB, the Twin changes the origin game plan toward control. This does not mean that Twin is a control deck. Right?
If we look at the Twin main deck, this should be classified as a combo-tempo more than combo-control.
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Edit:
Blood Moon is in the main deck, which is a strong control element more than tempo. You are right. Those Twin are kind of combo-control.
Anything, but nothing at the moment...
Modern:
WUBRGAmulet Titan, WUBRGHuman
WUBRAd Nauseam, WBRGDeath Shadow, UBRGScapeshift, UBRGDredge
WURJeskai Nahiri, WURCheeri0s, WBGCounter Company, WRGBurn, UBRMadcap Moon, BRGJund Midrange
UBTurn,BRGriselbrand Reanimator, WGKnight Company, RGRG Tron, RGRG Ponza, XAffinity, XEldrazi Tron
To be honest I had this discussion in multiple threads already.
It seems like people cannot even actually agree on the archetypes. Some people seem to think that as long as your deck doesn't win on turn 20 with Serra Angel like in 1996 it is not control.
No wonder control is "dead" when people have such narrow views on the matter.
I would like to point to the excellent Deck Archetype thread where Splinter Twin is actually listed as Combo-Control too.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/585107-deck-archtypes-in-modern
Sorry but you have clearly not played the deck a lot if you think the Amulet deck is suddenly going to overrun the meta and kill everyone on turn 2. Turn 2 kills are rare (need 5 specific cards out of the first 8 for Titan, 6 out of 8 for Hive Mind), are easily disrupted and half of them rely on hitting with a creature. Any early path (for titan), counter, discard or land destruction sets the deck back badly and makes it hard to play an average game. It's the way a combo deck SHOULD be.
Combos should work that, if not disrupted they win early and fast. If they get disrupted, they are easy to overwhelme. Combos like Splinter Twin breaks this and, if anything should be looked at for banning, it should be twin. Being able to play as a tempo-control deck that just WINS out of nowhere and can sideboard into cards that just take over games, really breaks the balancing act that other combo decks need to face.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying ban twin. I am saying that the power of Amulet comes at a cost, that is hard to aruge in the case of Twin (and to a lesser extent Scapeshift)
Still doesn't change that Hampton would have easily won game two by taking both combo pieces leaving Cohen with two lands in play and a bunch of uncastable spells in hand. He also hand a Fulminator Mage in hand to set him back even further or just win the game should Cohen have gone for Slaughter Pacting the Tarmogoyf.
I know that it was a long tournament and that there was a ton of pressure but still giving the game away like that was kinda incredible
Hindsight makes any call/decision much easier.
Taking the Slaughter Pact (which is the deck's only real interaction), with the information he had made sense at the time. Justin has no win-con in hand and no way to find it and no card draw. Gofy was a good clock, something Amulet can have an issue dealing with, especially with their one-of Slaughter Pact gone. It was a risky play, but forcing Amulet into top decking for answers is the best way to beat them. Ramp without something to do is not going to win a game.
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
But Justin had only two lands in play and no in hand. He couldn't even have casted Slaughter Pact especially with Jesse having Fulminator and plenty of gas left in hand.
And you are right ramp without something to cast is useless but Justin still had the Hornet Queen in hand either way.
But all of the PTs are mixed format. So instead of draft, what else would you suggest?
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the pro tour is not about the best deck. it is about the best player. and that shows best if you mix the format between limited and constructed.
because in limited it matters much more how good you are as a player.
TC was 4 cards tops, in the deck. Delver is still playable, people just are mad at the moment.
RBGW Suicide Zoo
Legacy
RUG Canadian Threshold
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