In vintage, we all know the power of the 9. Just recently we had 2 "reprints" of the 9 with a third on the way. With this, it got me thinking: what is modern's version of the power 9 that are CURRENTLY legal? Off the top of my head I would name lighting bolt, serum vision, thoughtseize, snapcaster Mage, and tarmogoyf. What other cards would you add to this list and why?
That is a strong base for a P9, while there is more that could be added to this, like Liliana of the Viel, or remand, or Bob. Why I think these fit into the P9 is for different reasons. Archbound, and Twin cause they are pillars of Teir1 decks for majority of Modern's time, Path, Bolt Thoughtsieze, and AD are the best removal period. Tarmagoyf and Snaps are staple creatures of the format.
Really it is hard to really pick down just a P9, since there is a good handful of very powerful cards which make modern what it is.
Private Mod Note
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Commander Decks:
WRadiant, ArchangelW WBRKaalia of the VastWBR GUPrime Speaker ZeganaGU WUBZur the EnchanterWUB WUBSydri, Galvanic GeniusWUB BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveBG WBTeysa, Envoy of GhostsWB BIname, Death AspectB GFreyalise, Llanowar's FuryG WGSigarda, Host of HeronsWG WURNarset, Enlightened MasterWUR
I think Remand deserves a spot in Modern's Power 9, its essential a Time Walk, in terms of card draw. Its purpose is to screw your opponents turn if played right, and draws you a card in the process.
There's a P9 in Vintage because those are powerful restricted cards that are still legal in the format. There's no point in arguing that Serum Visions is, even despite being a very good cantrip, in such a P9 because Ponder and Preordain are much better than it and are in the same theoretical card pool, just banned because of arbitrary criteria by WotC.
If Modern had a restricted list instead of banned list this thought exercise would be much more interesting: Mental Misstep, Treasure Cruise, Ponder, Preordain, Ancestral Vision, Skullclamp, Sensei's Divining Top, Snapcaster Mage and possible Dig Through Time. Those are all very powerful spells that have wide applications across a wide variety of decks which was the point of the original P9. Stoneforge Mystic, JTMS, Goyf and Jitte are also pretty busted in their own "niche" ways but they wouldn't qualify. Nearly all the other "unfair" cards are just combo enablers so they can't be measured in a vacuum, however broken they might be in the right deck.
[troll]
Lotus Bloom
Mox Opal
Talisman of Progress
Talisman of Impulse
Talisman of Dominance
Talisman of Indulgence
Time Warp
Concentrate
Day's Undoing
[/troll]
I can always be wrong. But then at the end lists bolt, visions and stuff not related to P9 so I'm lost.
You can name the most powerful cards in modern, but the power nine is unique in Vintage because every deck can run it. In modern, little decks can run more than 2 of the most powerful cards in the format.
Tarmogoyf: The best vanilla beater ever printed, and often the biggest creature on the field. Snapcaster Mage: Blue's best card advantage engine. Chances are if you are playing blue, you are playing Snap. Complicating combat math, and increasing the formats monitoring of graveyards everywhere. Liliana of the Veil: Moderns best planeswalker, and in the running for best planeswalker ever printed. Thoughtseize: The number one police card in all of modern, helping keep combo in check. If you are playing black, you are most likely playing Thoughtseize, with some decks splashing just for it. Lightning Bolt: Format defining. Creatures over two mana also necessitate 4+ toughness, or a good ETB effect to be playable. It also powers Burn, which helps keep the greedy mana bases in check. Remand: Moderns foremost counter spell. It's played in everything from combo to control, and everything in between. Serum Visions: Moderns best form of card selection, ti sees play in nearly every blue deck. We are lucky it was printed at common, otherwise it would be much more expensive. Abrupt Decay: Another format defining spell, it changed the face of modern as soon as it was printed. Combo was weakened, and ensures only the best permanents under 4 mana see play. Splinter Twin: A format pillar, and ever changing. Seen in UR, Jeskai, Grixis, and Temur twin, with the UR version having several builds. These decks have changed the way we all build decks in modern.
Close calls: These cards were just on the edge, but ultimately weren't prolific enough in my mind to make the list. Dark Confidant: There was a time that he would have made it, but with the rise of burn, the printing of Lingering Souls, and Siege Rhino, all pushed Bob down to just "really really good". Mox Opal+Arcbound Ravager: While Affinity is incredibly powerful, these cards only affect a small portion of the meta game, which is what kept them out of my list. Karn Liberated: Extremely powerful, but like the Affinity cards, just too limited in use. Path to Exile: Moderns best one mana removal spell, but as there aren't too many pro white creatures, let alone good ones, Path isn't built around the same way the other spot removal spells are. It's a part of the meta game, and nothing more. Cryptic Command: While it is Moderns best hard counter, its casting cost keeps it out of most decks. It's still super powerful, but just isn't played enough to warrant a spot in the 9. Tasigur, the Golden Fang: A card that could make it into the top 9 given time, Tas has given non green decks access to an undercosted beater, that also has a limited card advantage ability.
1: Snapcaster Mage: Arguably the best creature ever that slots into every blue decks besides Merfolk.
2: Liliana of the Veil: The best legal planeswalker in our format. Fits into basically every black deck (minus control).
3: Tarmogoyf: Arguably the best creature ever that slots into everything. Trust me everything....
4: Thoughtseize: The strongest discard spell in the format. No further explanations...
5: Path to Exile: One of the best removal spells in the format.
6: Lightning Bolt: The best spell in the format. It defines the format.
7: Tasigur, the Golden Fang: A rather new card that has made a quick splash. Has helped resurge control decks.
8: Collected Company: Even though this card is new to the scene, it has already pushed green aggro decks back into the format at a quick rate.
9: Blood Moon: The best land hate in the format. This card wins the game on its own often...or it loses you the game as well.
Honorable Mentions:
10: Serum Visions: Best cantrip in the format. While not format defining, it is important to almost every blue deck
11: Remand: The card gives you a Time Walk effect on turn 2 or 3. Great cared.
12: Cryptic Command: The swiss army knife of modern. What can't this card do?
13: Eidolon of the Great Revel: The great punisher of modern. The main reason why burn came to prominence.
14: Splinter Twin: A piller tier one deck of the format. This card has been around since the beginning and it will stay that way.
15: Abrupt Decay: One of the best police cards of the format, One of the big reasons why bg decks will always be around.
16: Arcbound Ravager: One of the main reasons why Affinity was insane in standard and why its so good in this format.
17: Dark Confidant: While there was a brief period where Mr. Greatness wasn't around, Jund has revived faith in this card's power. Greatness at any costs.
18: Vendilion Clique: One of the best creatures ever printed. However, in this format it is held back by police cards: (Abrupt Decay and lightning bolt to name a few). It still is great when it is used.
19: Fulminator Mage: One of the best land destruction decks in our format. Great for keeping greedy mana basis in check.
20: Goblin Guide: One of the best aggro cards ever printed. Robs life totals and gives info of your opponent's next draw.
Private Mod Note
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On mtgsalvation people don't want to discuss ideas, so I give people something else to discuss: my controversial opinions.
Serum Visions?
Really, guys?
I thought you waz betta dan dat.
Seriously, though. Visions isn't good, and I thought the banning of Ponder and Preordain made that clear. People didn't even USE Serum Visions when the other two were around, so where's the logic in saying that it's one of the best cards in modern? power level: 3.
The nine most powerful cards in the modern format...
I'd have to say:
-Cryptic Command- I've won so many games because of just one Cryptic. It's a hard counter that sets the caster up beautifully for the win. Or, you can decide to not have it be a counter, and set yourself up beautifully for a win too.
-Remand- Turn two, no turn for you. My turn? Sweet.
-Tarmogoyf- I'm not a fan of this guy, but I can't deny his power level of over 5,000.
-Day's Undoing (seriously wizards, you'll let us have this, but not Dig ?)
-Snapcaster Mage- he's a 2/1 that, moreorless, etb's whatever spell you need from your graveyard
I feel like it's important to define what a "power 9" level card is. To me, it means that essentially every deck in that color(s) runs it unless there is a specific reason not to, and some decks might even splash a color to run it. This means cards like arcbound ravager, karn liberated, eidolon of the great revel, and summer bloom, no matter how powerful, have no business on the list, as they are only in a single deck. Even things like liliana of the veil, dark confidant, and cryptic command, while incredibly good and in a lot of decks, don't seem quite ubiquitous enough to me to be on that level.
The only cards I can think of that really fit this bill are:
So I guess for me it's the "power 5." To be honest, even thoughtseize and tarmogoyf are borderline. Both are amazing, but there are more and more black decks reducing thoughtseize to a 2-3 of or skipping it entirely, and there are green aggro decks popping up that are skipping goyf and still putting up results. Blue has a lot of great cards, but they are all too specific to the deck style for me to feel like they're "power 9" level. Remand, cryptic command, and snapcaster mage are probably the top 3 candidates, but none are universal enough in my mind.
The reality is there never was and never will be anything as far above the rest of the field in modern as the power 9 were when they earned that name. The closest we've ever come (IMO) was treasure cruise.
It's not even close. You can't make this comparison.
Modern, unlike Legacy and Vintage, has a relatively "flat" power level. There is nothing nearly as powerful or as efficient as, say, the Moxen in Vintage, or Stoneforge Mystic and Brainstorm in Legacy.
Modern has cards like Snapcaster Mage, Lightning Bolt, Liliana, Karn, Remand, Serum Visions, that are all "good" but not as "distinctly powerful" as some of the cards in Legacy and Vintage are compared to their peers. And that's exactly what Wizards has wanted with their careful pruning of the ban list.
If something like Summer Bloom or Goryo's Vengeance prove to be as distinctly powerful to the rest of the format, then they will get promptly banned. That's how Modern works - there's not supposed to be anything close to the "Power 9". Modern is a format about playing on equal footing as much as possible. It's not about playing with powerful cards like Vintage and Legacy. This approach to Modern appeals more to the average player because it means that nearly any deck can win on a given day, whereas in Vintage and Legacy only a few specific archetypes really have an edge over the rest because of a few really powerful cards that they play.
Abrupt Decay - Can't be counter and kill most (99%) of all things in modern.
...
I agree that it fits on a modern p9 list, but 99% is a bit of an overstatement (especially because of someneweradditions and some oldercards which finally found their time to shine), though I guss 90% could be true...
On my tombstone, please write "Now his body fuels the Treasure Cruise"
Or you could Kommand him back...
Check out my Youtube Page for online Magic Content!
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcq-a5rTSNclFCS2o4_lVFw
Modern:
BURGrixis DelverRUB
URUR DelverRU
URBlue MoonRU
RIPURUR TwinRURIP
Legacy:
URBGrixis DelverBRU
RUBGrixis PyromancerRUB
Commander:
URMelek, Izzet ParagonRU
URBJeleva, Nephalia's ScourgeRUB
Modern : Huh?
EDH : UBGW Thrasios / Tymna Combo UBGW // GRW Mayael Big Stuff GRW // GU Edric Timewalkers GU
That is a strong base for a P9, while there is more that could be added to this, like Liliana of the Viel, or remand, or Bob. Why I think these fit into the P9 is for different reasons. Archbound, and Twin cause they are pillars of Teir1 decks for majority of Modern's time, Path, Bolt Thoughtsieze, and AD are the best removal period. Tarmagoyf and Snaps are staple creatures of the format.
Really it is hard to really pick down just a P9, since there is a good handful of very powerful cards which make modern what it is.
Commander Decks:
WRadiant, ArchangelW
WBRKaalia of the VastWBR
GUPrime Speaker ZeganaGU
WUBZur the EnchanterWUB
WUBSydri, Galvanic GeniusWUB
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveBG
WBTeysa, Envoy of GhostsWB
BIname, Death AspectB
GFreyalise, Llanowar's FuryG
WGSigarda, Host of HeronsWG
WURNarset, Enlightened MasterWUR
Legacy: BUWRG Manaless Dredge
If Modern had a restricted list instead of banned list this thought exercise would be much more interesting: Mental Misstep, Treasure Cruise, Ponder, Preordain, Ancestral Vision, Skullclamp, Sensei's Divining Top, Snapcaster Mage and possible Dig Through Time. Those are all very powerful spells that have wide applications across a wide variety of decks which was the point of the original P9. Stoneforge Mystic, JTMS, Goyf and Jitte are also pretty busted in their own "niche" ways but they wouldn't qualify. Nearly all the other "unfair" cards are just combo enablers so they can't be measured in a vacuum, however broken they might be in the right deck.
Lightning Bolt
Liliana of the Veil
Tarmogoyf
Cryptic Command
Snapcaster Mage
Primeval Titan
Karn Liberated
Path to Exile
Arcbound Ravager
I wouldn't say Serum Visions is P9 potential at all. It just happens be the best available to filter.
Draft My Cube!
Lightning Bolt.
Liliana of the Veil.
Tarmogoyf.
Cryptic Command.
Snapcaster Mage.
Blood Moon.
Thoughtseize.
Path to Exile.
Serum Visions.
Runners-up : Remand and Abrupt Decay (EDIT)!
Cheers!
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R
Draft My Cube!
Lotus Bloom
Mox Opal
Talisman of Progress
Talisman of Impulse
Talisman of Dominance
Talisman of Indulgence
Time Warp
Concentrate
Day's Undoing
[/troll]
Ancestral Vision*/Treasure Cruise -> Ancestral Recall
Lotus Bloom -> Black Lotus
*Rest in peace.
And the third one coming out is:
Day's Undoing -> Timetwister
I can always be wrong. But then at the end lists bolt, visions and stuff not related to P9 so I'm lost.
You can name the most powerful cards in modern, but the power nine is unique in Vintage because every deck can run it. In modern, little decks can run more than 2 of the most powerful cards in the format.
Anyway, my 2 cents:
Lightning Bolt
Snapcaster Mage
Dark Confidant
Tarmogoyf
Eidolon of the Great Revel
Abrupt Decay
Geist of Saint Traft
Cryptic Command
Batterskull
Snapcaster Mage: Blue's best card advantage engine. Chances are if you are playing blue, you are playing Snap. Complicating combat math, and increasing the formats monitoring of graveyards everywhere.
Liliana of the Veil: Moderns best planeswalker, and in the running for best planeswalker ever printed.
Thoughtseize: The number one police card in all of modern, helping keep combo in check. If you are playing black, you are most likely playing Thoughtseize, with some decks splashing just for it.
Lightning Bolt: Format defining. Creatures over two mana also necessitate 4+ toughness, or a good ETB effect to be playable. It also powers Burn, which helps keep the greedy mana bases in check.
Remand: Moderns foremost counter spell. It's played in everything from combo to control, and everything in between.
Serum Visions: Moderns best form of card selection, ti sees play in nearly every blue deck. We are lucky it was printed at common, otherwise it would be much more expensive.
Abrupt Decay: Another format defining spell, it changed the face of modern as soon as it was printed. Combo was weakened, and ensures only the best permanents under 4 mana see play.
Splinter Twin: A format pillar, and ever changing. Seen in UR, Jeskai, Grixis, and Temur twin, with the UR version having several builds. These decks have changed the way we all build decks in modern.
Close calls: These cards were just on the edge, but ultimately weren't prolific enough in my mind to make the list.
Dark Confidant: There was a time that he would have made it, but with the rise of burn, the printing of Lingering Souls, and Siege Rhino, all pushed Bob down to just "really really good".
Mox Opal+Arcbound Ravager: While Affinity is incredibly powerful, these cards only affect a small portion of the meta game, which is what kept them out of my list.
Karn Liberated: Extremely powerful, but like the Affinity cards, just too limited in use.
Path to Exile: Moderns best one mana removal spell, but as there aren't too many pro white creatures, let alone good ones, Path isn't built around the same way the other spot removal spells are. It's a part of the meta game, and nothing more.
Cryptic Command: While it is Moderns best hard counter, its casting cost keeps it out of most decks. It's still super powerful, but just isn't played enough to warrant a spot in the 9.
Tasigur, the Golden Fang: A card that could make it into the top 9 given time, Tas has given non green decks access to an undercosted beater, that also has a limited card advantage ability.
Cheeri0sXWU
Reid Duke's Level One
Who's the Beatdown
Alt+0198=Æ
Lightning Bolt
Snapcaster Mage
Path to Exile
Spellskite
Tarmogoyf
Inquisition of Kozilek
Thoughtseize
Blood Moon
Fulminator Mage
Splinter Twin
Tasigur, the Golden Fang
Liliana of the Veil
Abrupt Decay
Dismember
Dark Confidant
Gitaxian Probe
Cranial Plating
Goblin Guide
Delver of Secrets
Eidolon of the Great Revel
Simian Spirit Guide
Vendilion Clique
Destructive Revelry
Atarka's Command
Skullcrack
Boros Charm
Inkmoth Nexus
Most things with infect or grant infect that are less than 4 cmc, anything with infect and built in evasion or removal resilience, anything with infect and base or self-pumpable power 5 or greater
Grove of the Burnwillows
Horizon Canopy
Unburial Rites
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/602332-what-is-the-power-of-modern
Current decks of choice:
Vintage: Shops.
Legacy: Lands.
Modern: Lantern.
- Cryptic Command
- Dark Confidant
+ Remand
+ Splinter Twin
Cheeri0sXWU
Reid Duke's Level One
Who's the Beatdown
Alt+0198=Æ
1: Snapcaster Mage: Arguably the best creature ever that slots into every blue decks besides Merfolk.
2: Liliana of the Veil: The best legal planeswalker in our format. Fits into basically every black deck (minus control).
3: Tarmogoyf: Arguably the best creature ever that slots into everything. Trust me everything....
4: Thoughtseize: The strongest discard spell in the format. No further explanations...
5: Path to Exile: One of the best removal spells in the format.
6: Lightning Bolt: The best spell in the format. It defines the format.
7: Tasigur, the Golden Fang: A rather new card that has made a quick splash. Has helped resurge control decks.
8: Collected Company: Even though this card is new to the scene, it has already pushed green aggro decks back into the format at a quick rate.
9: Blood Moon: The best land hate in the format. This card wins the game on its own often...or it loses you the game as well.
Honorable Mentions:
10: Serum Visions: Best cantrip in the format. While not format defining, it is important to almost every blue deck
11: Remand: The card gives you a Time Walk effect on turn 2 or 3. Great cared.
12: Cryptic Command: The swiss army knife of modern. What can't this card do?
13: Eidolon of the Great Revel: The great punisher of modern. The main reason why burn came to prominence.
14: Splinter Twin: A piller tier one deck of the format. This card has been around since the beginning and it will stay that way.
15: Abrupt Decay: One of the best police cards of the format, One of the big reasons why bg decks will always be around.
16: Arcbound Ravager: One of the main reasons why Affinity was insane in standard and why its so good in this format.
17: Dark Confidant: While there was a brief period where Mr. Greatness wasn't around, Jund has revived faith in this card's power. Greatness at any costs.
18: Vendilion Clique: One of the best creatures ever printed. However, in this format it is held back by police cards: (Abrupt Decay and lightning bolt to name a few). It still is great when it is used.
19: Fulminator Mage: One of the best land destruction decks in our format. Great for keeping greedy mana basis in check.
20: Goblin Guide: One of the best aggro cards ever printed. Robs life totals and gives info of your opponent's next draw.
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
Really, guys?
I thought you waz betta dan dat.
Seriously, though. Visions isn't good, and I thought the banning of Ponder and Preordain made that clear. People didn't even USE Serum Visions when the other two were around, so where's the logic in saying that it's one of the best cards in modern? power level: 3.
The nine most powerful cards in the modern format...
I'd have to say:
-Cryptic Command- I've won so many games because of just one Cryptic. It's a hard counter that sets the caster up beautifully for the win. Or, you can decide to not have it be a counter, and set yourself up beautifully for a win too.
-Remand- Turn two, no turn for you. My turn? Sweet.
-Tarmogoyf- I'm not a fan of this guy, but I can't deny his power level of over 5,000.
-Day's Undoing (seriously wizards, you'll let us have this, but not Dig ?)
-Snapcaster Mage- he's a 2/1 that, moreorless, etb's whatever spell you need from your graveyard
-Primeval Titan- amazing win-con.
-Karn, Liberated- keeps you alive long enough to win by exiling whatever you need gone
-Liliana of the Veil- early-game powerhouse
-Lightning Bolt- people look long and hard at the creatures they want to put in their deck because of this card.
Yes, I know Day's Undoing isn't printed yet. But being spoiled, it takes a spot in my list.
The only cards I can think of that really fit this bill are:
So I guess for me it's the "power 5." To be honest, even thoughtseize and tarmogoyf are borderline. Both are amazing, but there are more and more black decks reducing thoughtseize to a 2-3 of or skipping it entirely, and there are green aggro decks popping up that are skipping goyf and still putting up results. Blue has a lot of great cards, but they are all too specific to the deck style for me to feel like they're "power 9" level. Remand, cryptic command, and snapcaster mage are probably the top 3 candidates, but none are universal enough in my mind.
The reality is there never was and never will be anything as far above the rest of the field in modern as the power 9 were when they earned that name. The closest we've ever come (IMO) was treasure cruise.
The rest you would add to this list are banned, and for good reason.
WBG Karador GBW
R Daretti R
RG Omnath GR
WRG Modern Burn GRW
WB Modern Tokens BW
DCI Rules Advisor as of 5/18/2015
Abrupt Decay - Can't be counter and kill most (99%) of all things in modern.
Tarmogoyf - Big Ole Gofy, grows by itself, even the favor text tells u so.
Lightning Bolt - This card has become a test for creatures, if it can't pass the bolt test and doesn't bring value then its not worth playing it.
Snapcaster Mage - Bolt, Snap, Bolt
Thoughtseize - Stripping hands never sound more fun then this
Liliana of the Veil - +1 = Great for stripping hands, -2 = Hexproof? no problem!, -6 = Good Game
Collected Company - A card that alone spawned 3 different decks, how does this not deserve a spot?!
Blood Moon - Spells GG for multiple decks in our format
Spellskite - I eat all spells if your willing to pay me!
Modern : Huh?
EDH : UBGW Thrasios / Tymna Combo UBGW // GRW Mayael Big Stuff GRW // GU Edric Timewalkers GU
Modern, unlike Legacy and Vintage, has a relatively "flat" power level. There is nothing nearly as powerful or as efficient as, say, the Moxen in Vintage, or Stoneforge Mystic and Brainstorm in Legacy.
Modern has cards like Snapcaster Mage, Lightning Bolt, Liliana, Karn, Remand, Serum Visions, that are all "good" but not as "distinctly powerful" as some of the cards in Legacy and Vintage are compared to their peers. And that's exactly what Wizards has wanted with their careful pruning of the ban list.
If something like Summer Bloom or Goryo's Vengeance prove to be as distinctly powerful to the rest of the format, then they will get promptly banned. That's how Modern works - there's not supposed to be anything close to the "Power 9". Modern is a format about playing on equal footing as much as possible. It's not about playing with powerful cards like Vintage and Legacy. This approach to Modern appeals more to the average player because it means that nearly any deck can win on a given day, whereas in Vintage and Legacy only a few specific archetypes really have an edge over the rest because of a few really powerful cards that they play.
Tarmogoyf
Snapcaster Mage
Path to Exile
Cryptic Command
Liliana of the Veil
Thoughtseize
Lightning Bolt
Abrupt Decay
Vendilion Clique
I agree that it fits on a modern p9 list, but 99% is a bit of an overstatement (especially because of some newer additions and some older cards which finally found their time to shine), though I guss 90% could be true...