Hey everyone, it's time for our the-banned-changes-are-coming-up-so-why-not-do-a-poll poll! Be sure to also check out the unbanning poll! Even if you want nothing unbanned, there's an option for that!
Anyway, obviously it's trickier to list prospective bans than prospective unbans, so I just tried to list any cards I saw nominated for a banning, even if I thought some of them were dumb; better to have too many than too few. Anyway, have at it! Note that this is for the next announcement, so if you're of the persuasion "this card may need banning, but I don't want it banned in the next announcement necessarily" don't vote for it.
I voted 'none' to be honest. I'd personally like for Deceiver Exarch to be banned to be replaced by Bounding Krasis, but I have not thought about it further than a passing thought so I'm not sure about the implications. I also dislike huge land hosers such as Blood Moon, Choke and Boil, but I do not want to see them banned.
If I remember, responding to the poll is allowed as long as you don't talk about banning/unbanning things in this thread. Its exclusively for the poll & its results otherwise keep it in the ban thread.
Is it worth including a summary of past poll & Ban announcements in the first post? I think that's the coolest thing to come out of this, getting to see that like 80% of the 500 people who voted wanted TC banned but only 10% wanted Pod banned, when Wizards felt that they both needed to go.
If I remember, responding to the poll is allowed as long as you don't talk about banning/unbanning things in this thread. Its exclusively for the poll & its results otherwise keep it in the ban thread.
Is it worth including a summary of past poll & Ban announcements in the first post? I think that's the coolest thing to come out of this, getting to see that like 80% of the 500 people who voted wanted TC banned but only 10% wanted Pod banned, when Wizards felt that they both needed to go.
I voted nothing. Imo Amulet Bloom is pushing the power level of the format a bit, but it's fine for now. And the Griselshoal deck could get scary, but it should be innocent until proven guilty.
Voted for no cards being banned. Modern's in a pretty good place right now with each of the three GPs having different metas and top 8s. I may be biased as a Bloom Titan pilot but while I do agree that the deck does some obnoxious things very early, it doesn't do it with the consistency that Modern can't handle. Plus, it straight up folds to the ubiquitous Blood Moon.
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Special thanks to Hakai Studios and SushiOtter for the sig!
Legacy:UR Sneak and Show IUBG Team America IX Metalworker MUD Modern:UBR Blue Jund IWBX Eldrazi Processors IX Affinity IWRG Nacatl Burn IGR Tron IUBR Grishoalbrand
Gory's Vengeance OR Nourishing Shoal, and that's it.
I really hate Tarmogoyf, Thoughtseize and Collected Company but they're never gonna get banned, so roll with it.
Don't mean to take the tread slight of topic, while Goryo's Vengeance would stop the Griselshoal deck. I think Griselbrand is the bigger culprit see my banned list post here. He's too ripe for abuse.
Honestly, I am very much against bans, however Griselbrand just strikes me as dangerous card to have around. I feel the card is almost too much for legacy it's yawgmoth's bargain on a stick. It's an engine, and deadly threat. If the Griselshoal deck takes off it could be a problem. It also limits R&D design space when it comes to reanimation spells. It's one thing to reanimate a big scary threat, that can be answered by removal, it's an other to reanimate a threat and engine in one go. Even if you do answer it your opponent likely will have a fresh grip of cards to do it over again. It's a card that should be watched unless we wish to not support reanimation strategies, or push reanimation with limitations like Unearth which is still good.
I voted for blood moon. Honestly, part of me likes the fact that it helps keep multicolor monstrosities in check... but the other part of me just dislikes the fact that entire deck ideas and strategies can be so wrecked by this one card that they are unplayable.
I voted none of the above (Amulet Bloom hasn't claimed a big enough tournament to warrant it), but one card that should be on the list is Primeval Titan. Granted Amulet + Bloom are the true "enablers", but it's the ability to tutor up fast kills and set up future pacts for more Titans with that card that makes that deck more than a glass cannon. If they were just ramping out Hive Mind + Pact as their only kill, that deck would be significantly less problematic than it is now.
I voted none of the above (Amulet Bloom hasn't claimed a big enough tournament to warrant it), but one card that should be on the list is Primeval Titan. Granted Amulet + Bloom are the true "enablers", but it's the ability to tutor up fast kills and set up future pacts for more Titans with that card that makes that deck more than a glass cannon. If they were just ramping out Hive Mind + Pact as their only kill, that deck would be significantly less problematic than it is now.
I left it off the list because I have never seen Primeval Titan advanced as a banning. Whenever I saw discussion about banning something from Amulet Bloom, it's always Amulet (the star of the deck), Summer Bloom (the key to all of its fast wins), or Hive Mind (the win condition that's significantly harder to interact with). Until just now, I've never seen anyone suggest a Primeval Titan ban.
I voted none of the above (Amulet Bloom hasn't claimed a big enough tournament to warrant it), but one card that should be on the list is Primeval Titan. Granted Amulet + Bloom are the true "enablers", but it's the ability to tutor up fast kills and set up future pacts for more Titans with that card that makes that deck more than a glass cannon. If they were just ramping out Hive Mind + Pact as their only kill, that deck would be significantly less problematic than it is now.
I left it off the list because I have never seen Primeval Titan advanced as a banning. Whenever I saw discussion about banning something from Amulet Bloom, it's always Amulet (the star of the deck), Summer Bloom (the key to all of its fast wins), or Hive Mind (the win condition that's significantly harder to interact with). Until just now, I've never seen anyone suggest a Primeval Titan ban.
I've suggested it before, but only as part of a swap-ban with Cloudpost.
I think the format is healthy right now, but I wouldn't mind Simian Spirit Guide getting banned. The card's only purpose is to speed up combo decks in a format where we dictate turn 4 wins.
Banning Simian Spirit Guide also straight up murders Ad Nauseam, though.
Personally, I don't really want anything banned. Some things are toeing the line (Titan, Grishoalbrand), but I don't think anything is crazy enough to warrant it yet. I say we need more time to decide anything.
Goryo's Vengeance and Summer Bloom are the big offenders, IMHO. Burn might need a ban or two if they print another incredibly great card in the next year.
Goryo's Vengeance and Summer Bloom are the big offenders, IMHO. Burn might need a ban or two if they print another incredibly great card in the next year.
I voted for hivemind. Hivemind (in the hands of Bloom Titan) is a non-interactive kill that just isn't fun to watch.
I don't want to butcher Bloom though. Overall the titan game plan of the deck is relatively fair.
Another card that isn't mentioned in the poll, but should be, is Nourishing Shoal.
Let's be honest. The only reason why the vengeance deck started doing consistently good is people figured out that you can splash Nourishing Shoal and effectively draw your entire deck.
If you ban that card, vengeance becomes substantially less consistent. Old versions of the deck never ran it, and very few people complained.
I voted for hivemind. Hivemind (in the hands of Bloom Titan) is a non-interactive kill that just isn't fun to watch.
I don't want to butcher Bloom though. Overall the titan game plan of the deck is relatively fair.
Another card that isn't mentioned in the poll, but should be, is Nourishing Shoal.
Let's be honest. The only reason why the vengeance deck started doing consistently good is people figured out that you can splash Nourishing Shoal and effectively draw your entire deck.
If you ban that card, vengeance becomes substantially less consistent. Old versions of the deck never ran it, and very few people complained.
good logic. lets keep both decks alive while appropriately neutering them.
Honestly, I am very much against bans, however Griselbrand just strikes me as dangerous card to have around. I feel the card is almost too much for legacy it's yawgmoth's bargain on a stick. It's an engine, and deadly threat. If the Griselshoal deck takes off it could be a problem. It also limits R&D design space when it comes to reanimation spells. It's one thing to reanimate a big scary threat, that can be answered by removal, it's an other to reanimate a threat and engine in one go. Even if you do answer it your opponent likely will have a fresh grip of cards to do it over again. It's a card that should be watched unless we wish to not support reanimation strategies, or push reanimation with limitations like Unearth which is still good.
You have this backwards. Goryo's Vengeance is the problematic card because it allows players to bypass Griselbrand's huge mana cost. Any card that allows players to cheat mana costs is going to be heavily scrutinized. R&D has said time and time again that those kind of cards are problematic for the game and it's why they have made them more and more restrictive.
Wizards will keep printing legendary creatures with more sets. That will never change. Eventually we'll get another legendary creature that is even more broken with Vengeance than Griselbrand is. Whether it happens next set or in three years, it will eventually happen. It's basically the same thing Birthing Pod went through. We're very unlikely to get another enabler like Vengeance though.
That being said, I do agree that Griselbrand is horrendously powerful. It should have been printed with an anti-reanimation clause similar to what Progenitus has.
im pretty okay with the way things stand right now, but I've been maindecking 4 spellskites lately haha. still haven't run across that griseldumb deck irl yet but there actually are reasons to be blue in modern (despite what I have seen some people on these forums declare) and that deck is one of those reasons.
Honestly, I am very much against bans, however Griselbrand just strikes me as dangerous card to have around. I feel the card is almost too much for legacy it's yawgmoth's bargain on a stick. It's an engine, and deadly threat. If the Griselshoal deck takes off it could be a problem. It also limits R&D design space when it comes to reanimation spells. It's one thing to reanimate a big scary threat, that can be answered by removal, it's an other to reanimate a threat and engine in one go. Even if you do answer it your opponent likely will have a fresh grip of cards to do it over again. It's a card that should be watched unless we wish to not support reanimation strategies, or push reanimation with limitations like Unearth which is still good.
You have this backwards. Goryo's Vengeance is the problematic card because it allows players to bypass Griselbrand's huge mana cost. Any card that allows players to cheat mana costs is going to be heavily scrutinized. R&D has said time and time again that those kind of cards are problematic for the game and it's why they have made them more and more restrictive.
Wizards will keep printing legendary creatures with more sets. That will never change. Eventually we'll get another legendary creature that is even more broken with Vengeance than Griselbrand is. Whether it happens next set or in three years, it will eventually happen. It's basically the same thing Birthing Pod went through. We're very unlikely to get another enabler like Vengeance though.
That being said, I do agree that Griselbrand is horrendously powerful. It should have been printed with an anti-reanimation clause similar to what Progenitus has.
My problem with Griselbrand is even reanimating just once with any of the reanimation spells in the format basically means you win. Drawing a grip of 7 card is huge. It also means you can likely pitch cards for free at the end of turn, and then reanimate something else next turn even if the opponent dealt with Griselbrand. There is a lot of 4 mana reanimation spells, and there is also Footsteps of the Goryo at 3 cmc. The fact that reanimation is normally always spell based means that unless your playing blue Griselbrand will at least hit the table and draw 7 cards. There is graveyard hate, but if you don't have it and Griselbrand hits the battlefield you likely won't have time to find the graveyard hate even if you do kill Griselbrand. Your just too far behind at that point. I think reanimation is cool archtype, it's one thing to reanimate a threat, and other to reanimate a threat and engine. I can see the argument for Goryo's Vengeance because it's only 2 CMC.
That being said, I do agree that Griselbrand is horrendously powerful. It should have been printed with an anti-reanimation clause similar to what Progenitus has.
The problem is that Goryo's Vengeance is an instant. That allows the card to actually bypass the anti-reanimation trigger from cards like Emrakul, the Aeons Torn for example
That being said, I do agree that Griselbrand is horrendously powerful. It should have been printed with an anti-reanimation clause similar to what Progenitus has.
The problem is that Goryo's Vengeance is an instant. That allows the card to actually bypass the anti-reanimation trigger from cards like Emrakul, the Aeons Torn for example
But they said an anti-reanimation clause like what Progenitus has, not like what Emrakul has. Progenitus can't be reanimated with Instant-speed spells because it never ends up in the graveyard to begin with.
Also, even if it is an Emrakul-like ability for Griselbrand (or more likely, a Worldspine Wurm-like ability for Griselbrand, as shuffling the entire graveyard is more of an Eldrazi thing), it is worth pointing out it means you need to have Goryo's Vengeance ready right when it hits the graveyard. The ability to discard Griselbrand, then reanimate him next turn is lost.
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Anyway, obviously it's trickier to list prospective bans than prospective unbans, so I just tried to list any cards I saw nominated for a banning, even if I thought some of them were dumb; better to have too many than too few. Anyway, have at it! Note that this is for the next announcement, so if you're of the persuasion "this card may need banning, but I don't want it banned in the next announcement necessarily" don't vote for it.
Feel free to make a quick comment explaining your vote, but if you really want to debate/discuss the choices, head over to the banlist thread
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/584965-current-modern-banlist-discussion-3-23-2015-update
-ktkenshinx-
Not sure if this means we can't respond.
I voted 'none' to be honest. I'd personally like for Deceiver Exarch to be banned to be replaced by Bounding Krasis, but I have not thought about it further than a passing thought so I'm not sure about the implications. I also dislike huge land hosers such as Blood Moon, Choke and Boil, but I do not want to see them banned.
Merfolk Wizards AKA "Wizards of the Coast"
Is it worth including a summary of past poll & Ban announcements in the first post? I think that's the coolest thing to come out of this, getting to see that like 80% of the 500 people who voted wanted TC banned but only 10% wanted Pod banned, when Wizards felt that they both needed to go.
Modern
UBR Grixis Control
U Merfolk
Pauper
U Mono U Delver
Ancestral Visions is freed
Special thanks to Hakai Studios and SushiOtter for the sig!
Legacy: UR Sneak and Show I UBG Team America I X Metalworker MUD
Modern: UBR Blue Jund I WBX Eldrazi Processors I X Affinity I WRG Nacatl Burn I GR Tron I UBR Grishoalbrand
Don't mean to take the tread slight of topic, while Goryo's Vengeance would stop the Griselshoal deck. I think Griselbrand is the bigger culprit see my banned list post here. He's too ripe for abuse.
I loathe creatures! Praise Prison and Land Destruction!
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I've suggested it before, but only as part of a swap-ban with Cloudpost.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
Personally, I don't really want anything banned. Some things are toeing the line (Titan, Grishoalbrand), but I don't think anything is crazy enough to warrant it yet. I say we need more time to decide anything.
URW Control
WBG Abzan
GRW Burn
EDH
GR Rosheen Meanderer
agreed
decks playing:
none
the degeneracy of this format is sickening...
decks playing:
none
I voted for hivemind. Hivemind (in the hands of Bloom Titan) is a non-interactive kill that just isn't fun to watch.
I don't want to butcher Bloom though. Overall the titan game plan of the deck is relatively fair.
Another card that isn't mentioned in the poll, but should be, is Nourishing Shoal.
Let's be honest. The only reason why the vengeance deck started doing consistently good is people figured out that you can splash Nourishing Shoal and effectively draw your entire deck.
If you ban that card, vengeance becomes substantially less consistent. Old versions of the deck never ran it, and very few people complained.
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Current Decks
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Standard: BW Control
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Vintage: NA
good logic. lets keep both decks alive while appropriately neutering them.
decks playing:
none
You have this backwards. Goryo's Vengeance is the problematic card because it allows players to bypass Griselbrand's huge mana cost. Any card that allows players to cheat mana costs is going to be heavily scrutinized. R&D has said time and time again that those kind of cards are problematic for the game and it's why they have made them more and more restrictive.
Wizards will keep printing legendary creatures with more sets. That will never change. Eventually we'll get another legendary creature that is even more broken with Vengeance than Griselbrand is. Whether it happens next set or in three years, it will eventually happen. It's basically the same thing Birthing Pod went through. We're very unlikely to get another enabler like Vengeance though.
That being said, I do agree that Griselbrand is horrendously powerful. It should have been printed with an anti-reanimation clause similar to what Progenitus has.
My problem with Griselbrand is even reanimating just once with any of the reanimation spells in the format basically means you win. Drawing a grip of 7 card is huge. It also means you can likely pitch cards for free at the end of turn, and then reanimate something else next turn even if the opponent dealt with Griselbrand. There is a lot of 4 mana reanimation spells, and there is also Footsteps of the Goryo at 3 cmc. The fact that reanimation is normally always spell based means that unless your playing blue Griselbrand will at least hit the table and draw 7 cards. There is graveyard hate, but if you don't have it and Griselbrand hits the battlefield you likely won't have time to find the graveyard hate even if you do kill Griselbrand. Your just too far behind at that point. I think reanimation is cool archtype, it's one thing to reanimate a threat, and other to reanimate a threat and engine. I can see the argument for Goryo's Vengeance because it's only 2 CMC.
I loathe creatures! Praise Prison and Land Destruction!
My Peasant Cube (looking for feedback)
The problem is that Goryo's Vengeance is an instant. That allows the card to actually bypass the anti-reanimation trigger from cards like Emrakul, the Aeons Torn for example
Also, even if it is an Emrakul-like ability for Griselbrand (or more likely, a Worldspine Wurm-like ability for Griselbrand, as shuffling the entire graveyard is more of an Eldrazi thing), it is worth pointing out it means you need to have Goryo's Vengeance ready right when it hits the graveyard. The ability to discard Griselbrand, then reanimate him next turn is lost.