Hey everyone, it's time for our the-banned-changes-are-coming-up-so-why-not-do-a-poll poll! Be sure to also check out the banning poll! Vote for any cards you want unbanned in the next announcement; it doesn't have to be something they actually will unban, just what you want unbanned. Also, check out the banning poll! Even if you want nothing banned, there's an option for that!
Ancestral Vision would be a good way to boost the blue control decks without also buffing combo and tempo blue builds too much.
Dig Through Time was banned in a spastic panic reaction and I want to see what kind of effect it would have actually had.
Sword of the Meek has no reason to be banned anymore, both pieces die to Abrupt Decay, both pieces are bad on their own and the actual, non-infinite combo it creates both costs mana and is an incredibly slow boil.
Previous vote I voted for Bloodbraid Elf as well, but I am very much on the fence about it this time. Jund is already very powerful right now, but it is still kind of the victim of a mis-ban when Deathrite Shaman should've just been banned instead.
I voted for Seething Song and Rite of Flame to encourage Storm, and Second Sunrise to encourage Eggs. I'm a sucker for skill-based Combo decks (they're just not super viable in Modern and I can't afford their Legacy counterparts) and it would be nice to see them return.
Also, Preordain and Ponder need to come back because although they make Blue decks a lot stronger, Serum Visions at $10 is very painful... Then again, Ponder is extremely powerful so I'm on the fence about it.
I'm aware that this may unbalance Modern, but this is mainly preference. The meta is fine as is, IMO.
Witht he top decks being grixis twin and delver... do we really need a card like AV to help tempo?
I don't think Ancestral Vision helps Delver at all. It doesn't interact well with Tasigur or Young Pyromancer, it's a card that pays off if the game goes long in a deck that isn't interested in it, and is a terrible topdeck. One of the reasons Treasure Cruise was so crazy good was because you could draw it and instantly cash it in... not so with Ancestral Vision. There's a little more concern for Twin, though, as the deck doesn't have that many turn 1 plays (compared to Delver, which has a lot), and it's more likely for the game to go long than Delver.
Honestly Id want to see jace before anything else. I'd love to see control players have a reason not to play twin.
Considering that Jace would probably slot into Twin rather well, I don't think he would give control players a reason to not play Twin. He might benefit control more than he benefits Twin, but he'd probably be better for Twin than Ancestral Vision would.
I think Sword of the Meek can come off, the deck won't break the format more than Amulet or Grishoalbrand. People will obviously complain and such, but people said the same thing about Golgari Grave Troll, and it saw all of no play when it came off.
I think BBE can come off too. It was always the wrong card to ban, and I think Siege Rhino is very comparable. The format's moved back to Jund now that Kolaghan's Command is a card, but I'm not convinced BBE will break the format, not with the last unban I'm in favour of.
And the last ban is Jace. We need a card that legitimately incentivizes blue players to play control decks and cards that won't fit into the existing non-control blue decks. Delver will have to change significantly to play the card, and they don't play it in Legacy (which is hopefully indication that they'll opt not to here). Twin playing it puts them into a slower combo deck, which I think would be more healthy for the format as a whole. But by and large, the goal would be to push decks like UWR Control into the realm of being good again, and help combat decks like Amulet or Grishoalbrand that are having people beg for bans. Every other blue card on the banlist is going to make combo decks better, or Delver better, and we can't afford that.
These were the interesting looking numbers from this poll and the previous two.
Other than these the votes have sat around the same amount with each ban announcement.
These were the interesting looking numbers from this poll and the previous two.
Other than these the votes have sat around the same amount with each ban announcement.
Cool info. Have you been tacking this? It'd be nice to keep track of it in the future too.
My wishes: Seething Song, all the Artifact lands, Dead Return, BBE and Sword of the Meek. I know, that the thirst 3 will never come of the list, but at least the other two would be nice.
Seething Song: Storm needs help and it powers other "fringe" decks (from ADN to Enduring Ideal). I still don't know, why they banned the card in the first place.
Artifact Lands: Would boost Affinity a little bit, but they would sill lose to the same hate cards (or even harder now). But in the first place, I want them for Tezzerator (for both UB and Urw).
Dead Return: Dredge would be a rather nice addition to the format (I know, that people and wizard hates this deck so much), but still, it is a Turn 4 deck (somebody tested it like half a year ago) and would keep people honest (besides Burn, Affinity, Amulet Bloom and GriselBanned).
BBE: DRS was the offender, not BBE, so he should have gotten banned in the first place. Furthermore, it would give traditional Zoo, Shamans (yes, this is a real deck) and some other decks a boost. It might be to good with Command in Jund through.
Sword of the Meek: It doesn't fit in any existing Tier 1 deck, and it would give both Tezzerator and Control a huge boost (and both need it).
Some other cards I was thinking about: Jace (can only be unbanned, if BBE is legal), Dig (don't want it, since I don't want to give Twin such a card, although Scapeshift and some other decks would love it) and Preordain (another way to boost Storm and other blue decks, but again, I don't want to see Twin with it).
Greetings,
Kathal
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What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
The only safe card that I could see coming off is AV since no other deck arche type other than control decks will run it, even so it's bad enough for them to top deck one in the late game.
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Standard : What is Stand-tart
Modern : Huh?
EDH : UBGW Thrasios / Tymna Combo UBGW // GRW Mayael Big Stuff GRW // GU Edric Timewalkers GU
I don't understand why Jitte is banned. I can't really see it being oppressive in modern.
It forces you to have a reason to not run Jitte if you have creatures in your deck. Every deck with creatures would run it.
I voted for JTMS, Sword, and AV, just to create a viable control deck. I'm kinda tired of hearing people whine about it not existing. I wouldn't mind playing against it insofar as I appreciate that them playing it and me beating them will require skill. Also voted for Tree of Tales, because I don't think it would slot very easily into Affinity as we know it, but possibly open up the potential for KCI or Eggs to be a deck.
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One of these day I have to get myself organizized.
I don't understand why Jitte is banned. I can't really see it being oppressive in modern.
It forces you to have a reason to not run Jitte if you have creatures in your deck. Every deck with creatures would run it.
I've actually been a bit uncertain about Jitte as of late. I remember that one of the big players (can't remember who) commented when they were making their decks for the Community Cup that they didn't even know Jitte was banned because they simply didn't think it was worth playing in the format. To be fair, that was a very different format.
However, a problem I have with Jitte's banning is this. It was banned because they figured "we have to ban this or Stoneforge Mystic, and we'd rather have Stoneforge Mystic." But then they decided Stoneforge Mystic should be banned. By that logic, shouldn't Jitte be unbanned? It's like the Golgari Grave-Troll ban; it became unnecessary when they banned Dread Return.
Maybe Jitte would be too good, but it being banned seems inconsistent with the rationale for its banning.
I don't understand why Jitte is banned. I can't really see it being oppressive in modern.
It forces you to have a reason to not run Jitte if you have creatures in your deck. Every deck with creatures would run it.
I've actually been a bit uncertain about Jitte as of late. I remember that one of the big players (can't remember who) commented when they were making their decks for the Community Cup that they didn't even know Jitte was banned because they simply didn't think it was worth playing in the format. To be fair, that was a very different format.
However, a problem I have with Jitte's banning is this. It was banned because they figured "we have to ban this or Stoneforge Mystic, and we'd rather have Stoneforge Mystic." But then they decided Stoneforge Mystic should be banned. By that logic, shouldn't Jitte be unbanned? It's like the Golgari Grave-Troll ban; it became unnecessary when they banned Dread Return.
Maybe Jitte would be too good, but it being banned seems inconsistent with the rationale for its banning.
At this point Stoneforge would make more sense as white is really weak. But I don't see unbans like this happening anyway(cards that would have a big impact on the format), because at the moment it looks like they don't want to do any significant changes to the banlist, so the best we can hope for is probably Sword of the Meek.
Unbanning Sword of the Meek allows for a interesting red deck with young pyromancer.
Add in some support cards like Shrapnel BlastKuldotha Rebirth and Trash for Treasure which all activate young pyro and gives you back Sword of the Meek. Toss in a few blood moons, faithless looting, burn, and a wurmcoil engine or two and you'll have a fun little deck.
I vote to unban mental misstep as a way to combat a turn one amulet bloom even in non-blue decks. I also want preordain and ponder because I want good draw spells that aren't $5,000,000.
Sword of the meek wouldnt stop aggro as Aggro got a massive shot in the arm recently. It's very powerful right now and I doubt thopter sword changes that at all. Aggro is too fast. It probably just helps give control decks strong inevitability and a chance to outgrind the grindy midrange decks.
Also Unban Jace the Mindsculptor so I can sell mine for massive profits. (this one is a joke, obviously)
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Currently Playing:
Modern: UWUW TronUW
Legacy: WDeath N TaxesW CEldrazi C
If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
Voted for visions, dig, dread return and seething song
The way I see it visions will help boost UWx control. It doesn't seem so good in these delve based grixis decks that are looking to put a turn 2/3 fatty in to play and win quickly.
Dig is a card I feel got unfairly banned because wizards panicked when treasure cruise was so broken so should be given a chance to run without cruise to see how it works.
Dread return because reanimating fatties on turn 2-3 doesn't seem bad when we're getting turn 2 griselshoal, primetime and the delve guys. Without cards like cabal therapy, bazaar or led etc the deck is far less potent than the legacy/vintage versions.
Seething Song because I love me some storm and unless wizards bans griselshoal, amulet and infect I see no reason why we can't have another deck that can on very rare occasions go off on turn 2.
I would also consider BBE. I was originally against unbanning after Jund rose up to be big player in the meta but it seems to have gone off again. From my limited playing it just feels like the deck runs out of gas against grixis and has a miserable match against tron and burn.
new players as they show up maybe twice with some budget deck they've spent the week designing and testing only to be beaten into oblivion by expensive decks they cannot hope to obtain and I think this is a tragedy.
DTT?
Twin wasn't on my radar during the DTT/TC legal time so i have little information on how it would slot in the deck, but it would push greatly Scapeshift (which almost disappeared) while giving some boost for UWx control strategy (really lacking in modern right now).
Also i don't think it would broke Delver tempo decks like TC did.
Sword of the Meek?
I don't have any clue on how it would work in the meta, but it doesn't seem more degenerated than other options in modern.
Maybe time concern like for SDT or Eggs? Or am i picturing the deck too much grindy?
- L
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"The problem isn't when Scissors says Rock is overpowered, it's when Paper says it is."
-Mark Rosewater
I don't know how combo with Thopter Foundry would be. I'm afraid it would push away aggro decks even more and there already isn't real aggro deck in modern beside Affinity.
Did you miss the fact that Merfolk and Elves, both aggro decks, won back-to-back Grand Prix?
In fact, all three of the recent Grand Prix were won by aggro decks. In addition to the two already mentioned, Grand Prix Singapore was won by Affinity. That's three Grand Prix in a row that aggro won, and different aggro decks at that. How is aggro having trouble right now again?
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Feel free to make a quick comment explaining your vote, but if you really want to debate/discuss the choices, head over to the banlist thread
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/584965-current-modern-banlist-discussion-3-23-2015-update
-ktkenshinx-
Honestly Id want to see jace before anything else. I'd love to see control players have a reason not to play twin.
Ancestral Vision would be a good way to boost the blue control decks without also buffing combo and tempo blue builds too much.
Dig Through Time was banned in a spastic panic reaction and I want to see what kind of effect it would have actually had.
Sword of the Meek has no reason to be banned anymore, both pieces die to Abrupt Decay, both pieces are bad on their own and the actual, non-infinite combo it creates both costs mana and is an incredibly slow boil.
Previous vote I voted for Bloodbraid Elf as well, but I am very much on the fence about it this time. Jund is already very powerful right now, but it is still kind of the victim of a mis-ban when Deathrite Shaman should've just been banned instead.
Also, Preordain and Ponder need to come back because although they make Blue decks a lot stronger, Serum Visions at $10 is very painful... Then again, Ponder is extremely powerful so I'm on the fence about it.
I'm aware that this may unbalance Modern, but this is mainly preference. The meta is fine as is, IMO.
Modern:
Legacy:
Considering that Jace would probably slot into Twin rather well, I don't think he would give control players a reason to not play Twin. He might benefit control more than he benefits Twin, but he'd probably be better for Twin than Ancestral Vision would.
I think BBE can come off too. It was always the wrong card to ban, and I think Siege Rhino is very comparable. The format's moved back to Jund now that Kolaghan's Command is a card, but I'm not convinced BBE will break the format, not with the last unban I'm in favour of.
And the last ban is Jace. We need a card that legitimately incentivizes blue players to play control decks and cards that won't fit into the existing non-control blue decks. Delver will have to change significantly to play the card, and they don't play it in Legacy (which is hopefully indication that they'll opt not to here). Twin playing it puts them into a slower combo deck, which I think would be more healthy for the format as a whole. But by and large, the goal would be to push decks like UWR Control into the realm of being good again, and help combat decks like Amulet or Grishoalbrand that are having people beg for bans. Every other blue card on the banlist is going to make combo decks better, or Delver better, and we can't afford that.
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
The rest of the blue spells need to stay, or else combo gets significantly better.
I wonder at Stoneforge Mystic; would its unbanning drastically warp the format? Is Modern too fast for SFM?
WBG Karador GBW
R Daretti R
RG Omnath GR
WRG Modern Burn GRW
WB Modern Tokens BW
DCI Rules Advisor as of 5/18/2015
Other than these the votes have sat around the same amount with each ban announcement.
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StaffMTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
Seething Song: Storm needs help and it powers other "fringe" decks (from ADN to Enduring Ideal). I still don't know, why they banned the card in the first place.
Artifact Lands: Would boost Affinity a little bit, but they would sill lose to the same hate cards (or even harder now). But in the first place, I want them for Tezzerator (for both UB and Urw).
Dead Return: Dredge would be a rather nice addition to the format (I know, that people and wizard hates this deck so much), but still, it is a Turn 4 deck (somebody tested it like half a year ago) and would keep people honest (besides Burn, Affinity, Amulet Bloom and GriselBanned).
BBE: DRS was the offender, not BBE, so he should have gotten banned in the first place. Furthermore, it would give traditional Zoo, Shamans (yes, this is a real deck) and some other decks a boost. It might be to good with Command in Jund through.
Sword of the Meek: It doesn't fit in any existing Tier 1 deck, and it would give both Tezzerator and Control a huge boost (and both need it).
Some other cards I was thinking about: Jace (can only be unbanned, if BBE is legal), Dig (don't want it, since I don't want to give Twin such a card, although Scapeshift and some other decks would love it) and Preordain (another way to boost Storm and other blue decks, but again, I don't want to see Twin with it).
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
Stoneforge Mystic, at least to test how the format would behave, if it goes wrong, you can always ban it again.
Modern : Huh?
EDH : UBGW Thrasios / Tymna Combo UBGW // GRW Mayael Big Stuff GRW // GU Edric Timewalkers GU
It forces you to have a reason to not run Jitte if you have creatures in your deck. Every deck with creatures would run it.
I voted for JTMS, Sword, and AV, just to create a viable control deck. I'm kinda tired of hearing people whine about it not existing. I wouldn't mind playing against it insofar as I appreciate that them playing it and me beating them will require skill. Also voted for Tree of Tales, because I don't think it would slot very easily into Affinity as we know it, but possibly open up the potential for KCI or Eggs to be a deck.
However, a problem I have with Jitte's banning is this. It was banned because they figured "we have to ban this or Stoneforge Mystic, and we'd rather have Stoneforge Mystic." But then they decided Stoneforge Mystic should be banned. By that logic, shouldn't Jitte be unbanned? It's like the Golgari Grave-Troll ban; it became unnecessary when they banned Dread Return.
Maybe Jitte would be too good, but it being banned seems inconsistent with the rationale for its banning.
have you seen hypergenesis in action? t2 wins with ssg and just ridiculous consistency
At this point Stoneforge would make more sense as white is really weak. But I don't see unbans like this happening anyway(cards that would have a big impact on the format), because at the moment it looks like they don't want to do any significant changes to the banlist, so the best we can hope for is probably Sword of the Meek.
Add in some support cards like Shrapnel Blast Kuldotha Rebirth and Trash for Treasure which all activate young pyro and gives you back Sword of the Meek. Toss in a few blood moons, faithless looting, burn, and a wurmcoil engine or two and you'll have a fun little deck.
Modern Tallowisp Spirits - A Modern Tallowisp Deck UW
Eldrazi Ninjas - Summoning Octopus Jutsu YYYYAAAHHHH!
STANDARD
Naban Wizards
Also Unban Jace the Mindsculptor so I can sell mine for massive profits. (this one is a joke, obviously)
Modern:
UWUW TronUW
Legacy:
WDeath N TaxesW
CEldrazi C
If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
Vintage
WWhite Trash
The way I see it visions will help boost UWx control. It doesn't seem so good in these delve based grixis decks that are looking to put a turn 2/3 fatty in to play and win quickly.
Dig is a card I feel got unfairly banned because wizards panicked when treasure cruise was so broken so should be given a chance to run without cruise to see how it works.
Dread return because reanimating fatties on turn 2-3 doesn't seem bad when we're getting turn 2 griselshoal, primetime and the delve guys. Without cards like cabal therapy, bazaar or led etc the deck is far less potent than the legacy/vintage versions.
Seething Song because I love me some storm and unless wizards bans griselshoal, amulet and infect I see no reason why we can't have another deck that can on very rare occasions go off on turn 2.
I would also consider BBE. I was originally against unbanning after Jund rose up to be big player in the meta but it seems to have gone off again. From my limited playing it just feels like the deck runs out of gas against grixis and has a miserable match against tron and burn.
:symu::symw: Control
:symr::symb: Aggro
Twin wasn't on my radar during the DTT/TC legal time so i have little information on how it would slot in the deck, but it would push greatly Scapeshift (which almost disappeared) while giving some boost for UWx control strategy (really lacking in modern right now).
Also i don't think it would broke Delver tempo decks like TC did.
Sword of the Meek?
I don't have any clue on how it would work in the meta, but it doesn't seem more degenerated than other options in modern.
Maybe time concern like for SDT or Eggs? Or am i picturing the deck too much grindy?
- L
"The problem isn't when Scissors says Rock is overpowered, it's when Paper says it is."
-Mark Rosewater
In fact, all three of the recent Grand Prix were won by aggro decks. In addition to the two already mentioned, Grand Prix Singapore was won by Affinity. That's three Grand Prix in a row that aggro won, and different aggro decks at that. How is aggro having trouble right now again?