It won't happen, because people live in fear of the past, but Stoneforge Mystic should probably come off. Kolaghan's Command single-handedly deals with both the mystic and whatever it tutors up, and turn 3 Batterskull isn't really that strong of a play in a format where turn 2 Primeval Titans and Gurmag Anglers are the norm.
DTT?
Twin wasn't on my radar during the DTT/TC legal time so i have little information on how it would slot in the deck, but it would push greatly Scapeshift (which almost disappeared) while giving some boost for UWx control strategy (really lacking in modern right now).
Also i don't think it would broke Delver tempo decks like TC did.
Sword of the Meek?
I don't have any clue on how it would work in the meta, but it doesn't seem more degenerated than other options in modern.
Maybe time concern like for SDT or Eggs? Or am i picturing the deck too much grindy?
- L
I don't know how combo with Thopter Foundry would be. I'm afraid it would push away aggro decks even more and there already isn't real aggro deck in modern beside Affinity.
Affinity and Burn are both tier 1. Merfolk just won a GP. Infect and Naya Zoo are solid tier 2 decks. Aggro is fine in Modern. Control however, is doing terribly. Sword of the Meek is a Control card. Not only would it help Control, which is easily the archetype that needs the most help in Modern, but it also really wouldn't even hurt aggro. It is a combo that, at best, can be assembled on turn 3 and start taking over the game on turn 4. Most aggro decks kill on turn 4. Even in the best-case scenario, it still wouldn't be fast enough to stop aggro if the Sword player was on the draw. And even if it always took over the game on turn 4 on the play, that wouldn't be any worse than Splinter Twin being able to consistently combo against aggro decks on turn 4. Most of the time it wouldn't even be assembled on turn 4 and would just be a later win-con. And there are few decks in the format that would want to run it in the first place. Sword of the Meek is a perfectly safe card that is only slightly more likely to affect Modern than Golgari Grave-Troll was.
voted for visions, Jace, top, and the artifact lands. I don't know if these lands would really be that strong in affinity, maybe by allowing a turn 1 metalcraft with more consistancy? Maybe I am wrong on that one.
Visions seems ok for the format. Top doesn't seep overwhelmingly powerfull, but maybe it gives to much tools to combo decks. I really want to play with Jace, and he doesn't seem to strong for the format. Could help control decks, but could also be really scary in BUG midrange decks curving discard into tarmo into lili into Jace. So maybe I am wrong on this one, we'll see what wizards thinks
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MTGO Username: Tajicyolo
Currently Playing:
Modern Grixis Shadow, Storm Legacy: Grixis Delver, Sneak and Show Duel Commander:Kess High Tide Vintage Big blue(MTGO)
I see very little reason for Tree of Tales to be on the ban list.
Affinity has shown no predilection for using green. This would be a Darksteel Citzdel without indestructible in that deck. Would they run 1-2? Perhaps...would it break the game or even make the deck better? I seriously doubt it. Why unban it? Other than the fact that it's a safe unban and we should have less cards on the banlist? It might lead to some interesting green decks that can use Tree of Tales for some interesting interactions.
Bloodbraid Elf-Another card that never should have been banned. The power level is very high, sure but not more so than lots of other cards in Modern at the moment. Unbanning this would allow a safer unban of cards like Jace, the Mind Sculptor.
Jace, and Ancestral Visions. Unban one of these if you decide to unban Bloodbraid elf.
If you look at Grixis control even control isn't doing so bad right now. In fact Grixis control is really good and it's pretty likely it will even rise in that aspect. That version of control certainly doesn't need any help. For the aggro I really let out Elves and Merfolk, maybe I just put it down too fast and forgot about them but tbh neither them is super strong. Burn is more like aggro-combo to me, I wouldn't say it's pure aggro deck and for Zoo it definitely isn't Tier 2 (maybe some CoCo versions could be Nayna Company but this more midrange while Small or even Big Zoo certainly aren't Tier 2 but lower).
Yea, except the fact that Grixis Control is not a REAL control deck at all.
Playing a fatty on turn2-3 and then protect it and killing everything else and countering everything to swing constantly, is NOT control.
Except for the T2 part that describes Esper Dragons in standard which is indeed a control deck. They play a T5 Ojutai "and then protect it and killing everything else countering everything to swing constantly." Seems you are arbitrarily deciding what is and isn't control....
If standards deffinition of control doesn't apply to Modern then why should Legacys? The type of control you seem to be seeking is Legacys, but if you look at modern on the whole, it's closer to Standard in spirit, just not power level.
Voted for visions, dig, dread return and seething song
The way I see it visions will help boost UWx control. It doesn't seem so good in these delve based grixis decks that are looking to put a turn 2/3 fatty in to play and win quickly.
Dig is a card I feel got unfairly banned because wizards panicked when treasure cruise was so broken so should be given a chance to run without cruise to see how it works.
Dread return because reanimating fatties on turn 2-3 doesn't seem bad when we're getting turn 2 griselshoal, primetime and the delve guys. Without cards like cabal therapy, bazaar or led etc the deck is far less potent than the legacy/vintage versions.
Seething Song because I love me some storm and unless wizards bans griselshoal, amulet and infect I see no reason why we can't have another deck that can on very rare occasions go off on turn 2.
I would also consider BBE. I was originally against unbanning after Jund rose up to be big player in the meta but it seems to have gone off again. From my limited playing it just feels like the deck runs out of gas against grixis and has a miserable match against tron and burn.
Grixis was built on more of the control end of the dpectrum than bgx so of course it outgrinds it. Jund is actually pretty decent against burn compared to the other midrange decks. Jund has benefits that grixis foes not by having a stronger ptoactive plan but bbe would just make it do that and actually keep up with grindy blue decks. I do not think that is good because it would just make it better than those decks in every way.
If you look at Grixis control even control isn't doing so bad right now. In fact Grixis control is really good and it's pretty likely it will even rise in that aspect. That version of control certainly doesn't need any help. For the aggro I really let out Elves and Merfolk, maybe I just put it down too fast and forgot about them but tbh neither them is super strong. Burn is more like aggro-combo to me, I wouldn't say it's pure aggro deck and for Zoo it definitely isn't Tier 2 (maybe some CoCo versions could be Nayna Company but this more midrange while Small or even Big Zoo certainly aren't Tier 2 but lower).
Yea, except the fact that Grixis Control is not a REAL control deck at all.
Playing a fatty on turn2-3 and then protect it and killing everything else and countering everything to swing constantly, is NOT control.
Except for the T2 part that describes Esper Dragons in standard which is indeed a control deck. They play a T5 Ojutai "and then protect it and killing everything else countering everything to swing constantly." Seems you are arbitrarily deciding what is and isn't control....
Are we talking about standard? No, so your post is nonsense.
The definition of "control" is different depending on which format you're looking at, and Modern control has nothing to do with T2 control or Legacy control. Grixis "Control" has Angler/Tasigur as main or unique wincons, doesn't play for the card advantage playstyle, typical of the control decks, doesn't improve in the very long game. That's the definition of "midrange" or fake-control, if you prefer. The only true control in Modern is Esper and partially UWR, and we saw how poorly they performed until now.
UW is way different from Grixis anyway, they don't play Ojutai for 1-2 mana and they have to control the board more and more until they can, hopefully, stick a "wincon" like Ojutai, which is not invincible at all, and defend it while controlling the game. That's very different from dropping a 5/5 with no effects or strategies in turn2 and swing for a 4turns clock, while Terminating anything on their sight.
There is no reason a control deck can't play a big creature early. Don't call my comments nonsense. that's a good way to get an infraction. Learn more about control before you post about it please.
If you look at Grixis control even control isn't doing so bad right now. In fact Grixis control is really good and it's pretty likely it will even rise in that aspect. That version of control certainly doesn't need any help. For the aggro I really let out Elves and Merfolk, maybe I just put it down too fast and forgot about them but tbh neither them is super strong. Burn is more like aggro-combo to me, I wouldn't say it's pure aggro deck and for Zoo it definitely isn't Tier 2 (maybe some CoCo versions could be Nayna Company but this more midrange while Small or even Big Zoo certainly aren't Tier 2 but lower).
Yea, except the fact that Grixis Control is not a REAL control deck at all.
Playing a fatty on turn2-3 and then protect it and killing everything else and countering everything to swing constantly, is NOT control.
Just as an example, I'm playing UW Control from time to time and I play with both Kitchen Finks and Resto Angel MD. Of course, they are 1 turn slower than Angler/Tasigur (when they have the Thought Scour on turn 1), but does this make my UW Control deck to a Midrange deck, just because I need some numbers of early creatures to survive those linear aggro decks (Burn, Affinity, 1 drop Zoo and co)? If you say yes, than I doubt that you know what control is in Modern.
In Grixis Control, both Tasigur and Angler are some way to help out the aggro match-up, a rather rough match-up otherwise (no lifegain, and the manabase hurts a ton). They have a nice upside to be a big clock if they need it, but still, does those 5-7 creatures make them a Midrange deck? Hell no.
With the change of the design philosophy, the archetypes have to adept. This is also true for Control. You can't play the draw and go game, when the opponent can flood the board, or is redundant enough to just force it way through your counterspells/removal. Guess why UWR Control was playing so much burn. They needed it against those linear deck and provided a "fast" clock against Combo decks.
Greetings,
Kathal
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What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
There is a successful control deck that runs around in two main archetypes: Mono U Tron and RG Tron. If you think about it, whether the game goes to Mindslaver lock or an Emrakul annihilate trigger, the deck has little to nothing it can do until then. It relies on cards like Repeal in MonoU and Pyroclasm/AotG in RG to take it the distance. Removal until the bomb hits, then GG.
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Generation 15: The first time you see this, add it to your sig, but add 1 to the number. Call it a social experiment.
I feel most strongly about sword of the meek. I don't think it's reliable enough to create any degenerate combo decks, but it'll serve as a win-con for control/prison strategies (which need a boost) and help out a couple cool fringe decks like UB tezzerator.
I REALLY doubt we'll ever see it but I honestly think chrome mox is safe. We dont' see it in legacy combo and for good reason. I might be wrong, but I'd like to see it tried.
Bloodbraid elf should be fine, even with jund's resurgence... especially now that it's playing tasigur alongside bob.
Dark depths should come off. Sure, it combos with vampire hexmage turn 3 (you still wouldn't win till turn 4), but hexmage is otherwise unplayable, and the combo is hardly auto-win as the token can be pathed, bounced, or blocked for days by souls tokens. It might give a boost to decks playing knight of the reliquary alongside thespian's stage. From experience that's risky too though... it costs you 2 lands to search up the combo and you could still lose, and the combo takes 2 slots that could be something else.
I think modern can handle preordain. It would replace serum visions obviously, but I don't think many decks would run both. There is a price that comes with too many cantrips, especially when they're all sorcery speed.
Everything else... no. I don't feel like blue needs visions and I hate the idea of jace unless they reprint him like 5 more times.
Affinity and Burn are both tier 1. Merfolk just won a GP. Infect and Naya Zoo are solid tier 2 decks. Aggro is fine in Modern. Control however, is doing terribly. Sword of the Meek is a Control card. Not only would it help Control, which is easily the archetype that needs the most help in Modern, but it also really wouldn't even hurt aggro. It is a combo that, at best, can be assembled on turn 3 and start taking over the game on turn 4. Most aggro decks kill on turn 4. Even in the best-case scenario, it still wouldn't be fast enough to stop aggro if the Sword player was on the draw. And even if it always took over the game on turn 4 on the play, that wouldn't be any worse than Splinter Twin being able to consistently combo against aggro decks on turn 4. Most of the time it wouldn't even be assembled on turn 4 and would just be a later win-con. And there are few decks in the format that would want to run it in the first place. Sword of the Meek is a perfectly safe card that is only slightly more likely to affect Modern than Golgari Grave-Troll was.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Currently Playing:
Modern
Legacy:
Duel Commander:
Vintage
Visions seems ok for the format. Top doesn't seep overwhelmingly powerfull, but maybe it gives to much tools to combo decks. I really want to play with Jace, and he doesn't seem to strong for the format. Could help control decks, but could also be really scary in BUG midrange decks curving discard into tarmo into lili into Jace. So maybe I am wrong on this one, we'll see what wizards thinks
Currently Playing:
Modern
Legacy:
Duel Commander:
Vintage
I see very little reason for Tree of Tales to be on the ban list.
Affinity has shown no predilection for using green. This would be a Darksteel Citzdel without indestructible in that deck. Would they run 1-2? Perhaps...would it break the game or even make the deck better? I seriously doubt it. Why unban it? Other than the fact that it's a safe unban and we should have less cards on the banlist? It might lead to some interesting green decks that can use Tree of Tales for some interesting interactions.
Bloodbraid Elf-Another card that never should have been banned. The power level is very high, sure but not more so than lots of other cards in Modern at the moment. Unbanning this would allow a safer unban of cards like Jace, the Mind Sculptor.
Jace, and Ancestral Visions. Unban one of these if you decide to unban Bloodbraid elf.
Except for the T2 part that describes Esper Dragons in standard which is indeed a control deck. They play a T5 Ojutai "and then protect it and killing everything else countering everything to swing constantly." Seems you are arbitrarily deciding what is and isn't control....
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Grixis was built on more of the control end of the dpectrum than bgx so of course it outgrinds it. Jund is actually pretty decent against burn compared to the other midrange decks. Jund has benefits that grixis foes not by having a stronger ptoactive plan but bbe would just make it do that and actually keep up with grindy blue decks. I do not think that is good because it would just make it better than those decks in every way.
There is no reason a control deck can't play a big creature early. Don't call my comments nonsense. that's a good way to get an infraction. Learn more about control before you post about it please.
Just as an example, I'm playing UW Control from time to time and I play with both Kitchen Finks and Resto Angel MD. Of course, they are 1 turn slower than Angler/Tasigur (when they have the Thought Scour on turn 1), but does this make my UW Control deck to a Midrange deck, just because I need some numbers of early creatures to survive those linear aggro decks (Burn, Affinity, 1 drop Zoo and co)? If you say yes, than I doubt that you know what control is in Modern.
In Grixis Control, both Tasigur and Angler are some way to help out the aggro match-up, a rather rough match-up otherwise (no lifegain, and the manabase hurts a ton). They have a nice upside to be a big clock if they need it, but still, does those 5-7 creatures make them a Midrange deck? Hell no.
With the change of the design philosophy, the archetypes have to adept. This is also true for Control. You can't play the draw and go game, when the opponent can flood the board, or is redundant enough to just force it way through your counterspells/removal. Guess why UWR Control was playing so much burn. They needed it against those linear deck and provided a "fast" clock against Combo decks.
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
I REALLY doubt we'll ever see it but I honestly think chrome mox is safe. We dont' see it in legacy combo and for good reason. I might be wrong, but I'd like to see it tried.
Bloodbraid elf should be fine, even with jund's resurgence... especially now that it's playing tasigur alongside bob.
Dark depths should come off. Sure, it combos with vampire hexmage turn 3 (you still wouldn't win till turn 4), but hexmage is otherwise unplayable, and the combo is hardly auto-win as the token can be pathed, bounced, or blocked for days by souls tokens. It might give a boost to decks playing knight of the reliquary alongside thespian's stage. From experience that's risky too though... it costs you 2 lands to search up the combo and you could still lose, and the combo takes 2 slots that could be something else.
I think modern can handle preordain. It would replace serum visions obviously, but I don't think many decks would run both. There is a price that comes with too many cantrips, especially when they're all sorcery speed.
Everything else... no. I don't feel like blue needs visions and I hate the idea of jace unless they reprint him like 5 more times.
BGW Junk / URB Grixis Shadow / RGB Lantern Control / WUBCBant Eldrazi
Current Legacy decks
BUG Shardless BUG / UWR Predict Miracles / RUG Canadian Thresh / WRBG 4c Loam
UB Reanimator