I'm going o have to disagree. Thee is a key difference between hosing your opponent harder than yourself, and not actually being affected by a card. Affinity and Zoo only bring in blood moon when it is an auto-win for them. They would not bring it in against every deck because it is just as bad for them as well. Play both with only basic mountains and you get my drift. A dedicated blood moon deck would still get very nice advantage turning off non-basics against affinity, and forcing zoo to fetch basics. hey only play the card in their sideboard because the can control when and how bad the double-edge is for them. Infect on the other hand I agree. It isn't really so great at all. Though turning off Inkmoth and that one pump-land is still not bad. I don't think Bloodmoon will be good in every deck as a four-of but i do believe their is room for something like Blue or white moon to come foreword now that Twin is theoretically gone.
I dont see why a Twin-less meta wouldnt just be Burn/Infect/Goryo/Zoo and win before anyone else can get Tron online.
Without the deck that slows people down, just jam your cards thoughtlessly and swing.
In my humble opinion, the format will devolve into Tron/Heartless Eldrazi or Bx Eldrazi on the top-end, and Affinity/Burn/Infect/Grishoalbanned on the bottom end. There is no room in modern anymore for midrange. I literally don't know if Naya Company is even fast enough to remain a relevant part of the meta.
From my testing (at least pre-board), Naya Company completely smashes Bx Eldrazi and has a surprisingly-close-to-even matchup against RG Tron (though my earlier RG Tron builds had a more favourable time, I doubt 4-Pyroclasm builds are that well off). And since its Scavenging Oozes trump Goryo's for just long enough and it can race Burn, I think Naya Company will survive.
I suspect that midrange has a favourable enough time against Goryo's that at least it's a predator against something in the new meta. (Then again, Bx Eldrazi already kicks it off the Goryo's Vengeance plan...)
Ghost Quarter just became one of the most important cards in Modern. Between Affinity and Tron, there's numerous targets, and both of those decks will see a HUGE surge. Expect to see a couple in many main decks now, and in many sideboards.
Ghost Quarter just became one of the most important cards in Modern. Between Affinity and Tron, there's numerous targets, and both of those decks will see a HUGE surge. Expect to see a couple in many main decks now, and in many sideboards.
I've always had tectonic edge in my mainboard for dealing with trouble lands. Not so much to color screw the opponent but to remove annoying lands.
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Standard
none
Modern UBG B/U/G control BBB MBC WUR Control WWW Prison RRR Goblins
Legacy BBB Pox UBG B/U/G Control UWU StoneBlade UW Miracle Control
So I'm wondering if Boros is finally in an advantageous position.
Very fast, very conservative with its manabase, still in possession of the premier hate card of the format, can go back and forth pretty well between punching face and blowing up dudes...
-RW midrange/control has been a fringe deck for a while, and it can prey heavily on creature/aggro and ramp decks.
-Jund will have to re-assess and retool, but I think it will remain a contender. the base of cards is just too powerful to fall by the wayside.
-People will prepare for a rise of Affinity, and pack hate accordingly. I expect robots to stay around the same place it is now (which is still tier 1).
-Zoo, burn, and infect will be the defacto fallback decks of lazy pros looking to take advantage of proactive strategies to steal wins.
-Scapeshift will make a resurgence, both the cryptic command and prime time versions.
-URx delver strategies will be a tier 1.5-2 strategy. I have high hopes for Stormchaser Mage.
-Grixis midrange/control will be a popular conversion for many twin players.
-Tron and Bx Eldrazi become solid tier 1 decks.
-GW hatebears moves up as a solid disruptive beatdown deck. This is my vote as the dark horse to steal a tier 1 spot.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
I don't think so. Twin kept the linear decks at bay, and they cause serious problems with control. Now that Twin is gone, these strategies (and thus control's worst matchup) are even worse. Plus, control lost one of its best matchups (which was Twin).
I don't think it is, but then again I could always be proved wrong.
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Modern Decks WUBEsper ControlBUW URStormRU RGForest BelcherGR
To-Do List WModern Death and TaxesW WLegacy Death and TaxesW
I don't post here often, but I don't understand why so many think this changing meta is good for Tron. Infect, Affinity, Burn, Storm, and Boggles are all decks that gain in the changing meta, and are all horrible match ups for Tron. Linear aggro can freely focus on speed over consistency now if fewer decks are packing disruption, and that is bad for Tron.
Why? What are you thinking it is going to be better against now instead of the usual Path/Bolt/Decay suite?
Because it can be cast without worrying about dying from Twin, and it has a plethora of good targets. Souls tokens, double Goyf, Pyromancer tokens might be a thing, etc.
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Level 1 Judge
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
Why? What are you thinking it is going to be better against now instead of the usual Path/Bolt/Decay suite?
It is more versatile against several matchups where as abrupt decay stops you from getting KO'd by splinter twin, but not anything Tron or Eldrazi decks can pump out. You can't path a planeswalker and there are a few that are relevant. And ramping an opponent isn't always that great.
I was thinking the same thing, Pulse got better. It's still too slow against aggro to mainboard in great quantities, but it's better than it used to be, and we'll probably see a few Decays being swapped out for it.
Corner case, but it takes both Wurm tokens after you've killed Wurmcoil Engine.
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When I hit my 3000 post mark, I'm gone for good.
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
I think whether or not decay is better or worse will depend on if there are any unbanning announcements. If a couple of cards like sword of the meek or stoneforge mystic come back, decay is still really good since those cards slide into control decks.
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Modern UB Tezzerator UBW Gifts B 8Rack
Legacy RB Goblins
If Wizards is right, and these bannings will open up the modern metagame to more decks, the things that will get a lot better are not in this thread yet because they're things that aren't already staples of the metagame. Just look at the black eldrazi deck. No such animal existed before recently, no one saw it coming, and now it seems like it's half the meta on Modo.
One thing it did was completely blow up the Modern singles market. Everything is in flux. Buyouts of Mindslicer? WTF?
Possible buyouts of Ghost Quarter and Sudden Shock.
This is a wide open market, and will be until a couple weeks after the PT.
We have had an eventful few days to be sure, Twin is now gone. I personally like that this has happened. This is because the deck acted, like others in the past, like a policing deck, a deck that constrained the meta and unilaterally set the rules for what decks could be played and which could not. To further argue this point, we need to talk about what a policing deck is in the first place.
Policing decks are decks like Pod, Twin, Tron, etc. But what exactly makes them a policing deck? My opinion is that relative power is the key indicator. If you turned back the clock a little over a year ago, and said that Tron was a policing deck, most people would have laughed at you, and they would have been correct, back then it only really had:
Thats basically it. Nowadays that isn't the case, in fact most people nowadays would say (myself included) that Tron IS a policing deck now, this is largely due the fact that Tron has Ugin, Ulamog, and now Kozilek's Return, it also has rending volley....but it won't need it anymore.
The point that I am trying to make is that being a policing deck isn't an absolute state, decks can start weak, and then become policing decks once they get more POWERFUL cards, this implies that anything referred to as a policing deck is by definition disproportionately more powerful then other decks relative to the format itself.
Policing decks kill deck building diversity, they just do. Prior to twin being banned, there were dozens of arguably good, Modern playables that simply couldn't yet make the cut since it involved doing things like tapping out on turn 3 at sorcery speed, which was a death sentence in a format with Twin involved. Now on the other hand, people have much more diverse options for deck building then they did before.
In the Banlist thread, there has been a lot of talk that policing decks are a necessary fixture within a format, my question, is why? Why do we need policing decks when by definition a policing deck is only a policing deck based on it's high relative power level, thats like saying we need overpowered champions in League of Legends or Heroes of the Storm because they are "too big to fail" or "the exist for the greater good". No they don't, if something is overpowered you have to deal with it eventually. Sticking your head in the sand isn't going to make the problem disappear, and because of Wotc's actions, Modern now has one fewer problem in the form of a "policing" deck.
Going forward, I believe we are not completely out of the woods, one more policing deck exists currently, and that is Tron. And due to it's policing nature, Tron does not have a long time left in this format, why would it when a resolved Ugin basically hard counters most of the Modern field? Fair midrange decks simply cannot exist with a deck like Tron in the metagame, not when it has such a critical mass of tools available to it. Eventually this last policing deck will be sent packing and then I believe this format will be free (hopefully).
I would love feedback on my point of view, any rebuttals or counterpoints are welcome.
I agree wholeheartedly with what you have said though I'm not sure this is the correct place for it to go (wouldn't be shocked if it was merged). But yes, I think Tron's days could be numbered as well IF it just slaughters the competition this PT. However, even though it has gotten a lot of new toys recently it still is a slow deck by comparison and I would be surprised if it actually made a huge difference by the end of the day. I think Affinity is much more likely to be the dominant deck but it has been hated out in the past so time will tell.
So instead of a police deck, Modern will be dominated be either really fast turn 3 (or in some cases, turn 2) decks or decks like Tron whose endgame is impossible to deal with.
That's better than having Twin in the format, right?
So instead of a police deck, Modern will be dominated be either really fast turn 3 (or in some cases, turn 2) decks or decks like Tron whose endgame is impossible to deal with.
That's better than having Twin in the format, right?
I am in no way saying it is better, to be honest, if Modern HAD to have a policing deck, I would go a step further and say that we should have Pod back since it played an inherently fair game with all of it's combo pieces being soft to bolt. But that isn't my point, I made the note that Tron shouldn't survive in this format going forward because it is a policing deck.
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From my testing (at least pre-board), Naya Company completely smashes Bx Eldrazi and has a surprisingly-close-to-even matchup against RG Tron (though my earlier RG Tron builds had a more favourable time, I doubt 4-Pyroclasm builds are that well off). And since its Scavenging Oozes trump Goryo's for just long enough and it can race Burn, I think Naya Company will survive.
I suspect that midrange has a favourable enough time against Goryo's that at least it's a predator against something in the new meta. (Then again, Bx Eldrazi already kicks it off the Goryo's Vengeance plan...)
I've always had tectonic edge in my mainboard for dealing with trouble lands. Not so much to color screw the opponent but to remove annoying lands.
none
Modern
UBG B/U/G control
BBB MBC
WUR Control
WWW Prison
RRR Goblins
Legacy
BBB Pox
UBG B/U/G Control
UWU StoneBlade
UW Miracle Control
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
Very fast, very conservative with its manabase, still in possession of the premier hate card of the format, can go back and forth pretty well between punching face and blowing up dudes...
-Jund will have to re-assess and retool, but I think it will remain a contender. the base of cards is just too powerful to fall by the wayside.
-People will prepare for a rise of Affinity, and pack hate accordingly. I expect robots to stay around the same place it is now (which is still tier 1).
-Zoo, burn, and infect will be the defacto fallback decks of lazy pros looking to take advantage of proactive strategies to steal wins.
-Scapeshift will make a resurgence, both the cryptic command and prime time versions.
-URx delver strategies will be a tier 1.5-2 strategy. I have high hopes for Stormchaser Mage.
-Grixis midrange/control will be a popular conversion for many twin players.
-Tron and Bx Eldrazi become solid tier 1 decks.
-GW hatebears moves up as a solid disruptive beatdown deck. This is my vote as the dark horse to steal a tier 1 spot.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
I don't think so. Twin kept the linear decks at bay, and they cause serious problems with control. Now that Twin is gone, these strategies (and thus control's worst matchup) are even worse. Plus, control lost one of its best matchups (which was Twin).
I don't think it is, but then again I could always be proved wrong.
WUBEsper ControlBUW
URStormRU
RGForest BelcherGR
To-Do List
WModern Death and TaxesW
WLegacy Death and TaxesW
Because it can be cast without worrying about dying from Twin, and it has a plethora of good targets. Souls tokens, double Goyf, Pyromancer tokens might be a thing, etc.
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
It is more versatile against several matchups where as abrupt decay stops you from getting KO'd by splinter twin, but not anything Tron or Eldrazi decks can pump out. You can't path a planeswalker and there are a few that are relevant. And ramping an opponent isn't always that great.
Corner case, but it takes both Wurm tokens after you've killed Wurmcoil Engine.
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Doomsdayin'
UB Tezzerator
UBW Gifts
B 8Rack
Legacy
RB Goblins
If Wizards is right, and these bannings will open up the modern metagame to more decks, the things that will get a lot better are not in this thread yet because they're things that aren't already staples of the metagame. Just look at the black eldrazi deck. No such animal existed before recently, no one saw it coming, and now it seems like it's half the meta on Modo.
If.
Spirits
Possible buyouts of Ghost Quarter and Sudden Shock.
This is a wide open market, and will be until a couple weeks after the PT.
I have like 16 copies of the card, you could never have enough Innistrad GQs.
We have had an eventful few days to be sure, Twin is now gone. I personally like that this has happened. This is because the deck acted, like others in the past, like a policing deck, a deck that constrained the meta and unilaterally set the rules for what decks could be played and which could not. To further argue this point, we need to talk about what a policing deck is in the first place.
Policing decks are decks like Pod, Twin, Tron, etc. But what exactly makes them a policing deck? My opinion is that relative power is the key indicator. If you turned back the clock a little over a year ago, and said that Tron was a policing deck, most people would have laughed at you, and they would have been correct, back then it only really had:
Oblivion Stone
Karn Liberated
Emrakul, the Aeon's Torn
Pyroclasm
Thats basically it. Nowadays that isn't the case, in fact most people nowadays would say (myself included) that Tron IS a policing deck now, this is largely due the fact that Tron has Ugin, Ulamog, and now Kozilek's Return, it also has rending volley....but it won't need it anymore.
The point that I am trying to make is that being a policing deck isn't an absolute state, decks can start weak, and then become policing decks once they get more POWERFUL cards, this implies that anything referred to as a policing deck is by definition disproportionately more powerful then other decks relative to the format itself.
Policing decks kill deck building diversity, they just do. Prior to twin being banned, there were dozens of arguably good, Modern playables that simply couldn't yet make the cut since it involved doing things like tapping out on turn 3 at sorcery speed, which was a death sentence in a format with Twin involved. Now on the other hand, people have much more diverse options for deck building then they did before.
In the Banlist thread, there has been a lot of talk that policing decks are a necessary fixture within a format, my question, is why? Why do we need policing decks when by definition a policing deck is only a policing deck based on it's high relative power level, thats like saying we need overpowered champions in League of Legends or Heroes of the Storm because they are "too big to fail" or "the exist for the greater good". No they don't, if something is overpowered you have to deal with it eventually. Sticking your head in the sand isn't going to make the problem disappear, and because of Wotc's actions, Modern now has one fewer problem in the form of a "policing" deck.
Going forward, I believe we are not completely out of the woods, one more policing deck exists currently, and that is Tron. And due to it's policing nature, Tron does not have a long time left in this format, why would it when a resolved Ugin basically hard counters most of the Modern field? Fair midrange decks simply cannot exist with a deck like Tron in the metagame, not when it has such a critical mass of tools available to it. Eventually this last policing deck will be sent packing and then I believe this format will be free (hopefully).
I would love feedback on my point of view, any rebuttals or counterpoints are welcome.
That's better than having Twin in the format, right?
I am in no way saying it is better, to be honest, if Modern HAD to have a policing deck, I would go a step further and say that we should have Pod back since it played an inherently fair game with all of it's combo pieces being soft to bolt. But that isn't my point, I made the note that Tron shouldn't survive in this format going forward because it is a policing deck.