Welcome to the Mom and Pop Thopter Giftshop. How may I help you :-p
Oh man So many ways to build thopter combo that I hope it doesnt get compared to splinter twin
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Decks I have in my bag of tricks- Needless to say, someone who wants to play will probably have a deck UB/x Faeries UR Storm XURWB Affinity G Elves UW control
Everyone complaining about Jund getting the short end of the stick, but it is the deck best suited to weild Ancient Grudge against our returning overlord Affinity, not to mention all the people brewing with Sword of the Meek.
Happy about Eye.
Okay about Sword.
Sceptical about Visions.
I guess we'll see...
Actually, Jund gained a lot in this annoucment: Eldrazi gone, Tron decks get a dent (they don't become unplayable), that will make them weaker (not weaker to Jund, mind you) and thus decrease its numbers.
. 'Fast, streamlined, explosive decks will remain excellent choices in the new format.'
'Then there were Abrupt Decay decks like Jund and Abzan. Those decks can be geared to beat a small handful of known opponents, but in a diverse field, they sometimes lack the raw power necessary to do well. The banning of Eye of Ugin is great news for these decks, but the unbanning of Sword of the Meek and Ancestral Vision is catastrophic. Jund is my favorite deck in modern, and it’s been good to me over the years, but I’m not willing to take it into a field of card-advantage based Snapcaster Mage decks. '
imo AV is an interesting risk, SotM i'd dare say even a mistake
So Jund might have to adapt!? That's a real travesty isn't it?
Jund will definitely drop to tier 2, I wonder if Junk can manage, since it's better in a slower meta
I'm happy for blue players, but I'm definitely concerned for GBx. It scares me that BBE was mentioned in the thought process for AV staying banned for so long.
Maybe Sultai will have to become a thing, I don't know. GBx absolutely cannot handle having a blue player draw 3 cards, I wonder if painful truths in the 75 can mitigate this. Guess we'll have a better idea in a month and a half or so
They probably figured BBE is good enough to emulate Shardless Agent, the namesake hyper-value Gray Ogre of Shardless BUG.
Shardless BUG, as far as I know, is probably the absolute best Ancestral Vision deck in existence.
Yeah that's sort of concerning since Legacy is an entirely different format, Shardless Agent is 1 cheaper (which means everything), shares the same colour (so more colour combos available), and most importantly the entire deck is held together by Force of Will, also not present in modern.
BBE in a blue deck is bad, because it basically makes counters terrible. Oh yay, I cascaded into a mana leak... and countered my own BBE.... yay!
I seriously hope people working for wizards development doesn't think that AV in the format prevents BBE from ever coming back.
IF you read the ban/update they named cascade as the reason why AV was safe so I think it just became super hard for BBE to come off.
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On mtgsalvation people don't want to discuss ideas, so I give people something else to discuss: my controversial opinions.
Jund will definitely drop to tier 2, I wonder if Junk can manage, since it's better in a slower meta
I'm happy for blue players, but I'm definitely concerned for GBx. It scares me that BBE was mentioned in the thought process for AV staying banned for so long.
Maybe Sultai will have to become a thing, I don't know. GBx absolutely cannot handle having a blue player draw 3 cards, I wonder if painful truths in the 75 can mitigate this. Guess we'll have a better idea in a month and a half or so
They probably figured BBE is good enough to emulate Shardless Agent, the namesake hyper-value Gray Ogre of Shardless BUG.
Shardless BUG, as far as I know, is probably the absolute best Ancestral Vision deck in existence.
Yeah that's sort of concerning since Legacy is an entirely different format, Shardless Agent is 1 cheaper (which means everything), shares the same colour (so more colour combos available), and most importantly the entire deck is held together by Force of Will, also not present in modern.
BBE in a blue deck is bad, because it basically makes counters terrible. Oh yay, I cascaded into a mana leak... and countered my own BBE.... yay!
I seriously hope people working for wizards development doesn't think that AV in the format prevents BBE from ever coming back.
Who says playing Blue requires counterspells? Just mash together a bunch of value plays across RUG and call it a day.
There's gotta be something 3cmc or less in U that's midrangey.
Everyone complaining about Jund getting the short end of the stick, but it is the deck best suited to weild Ancient Grudge against our returning overlord Affinity, not to mention all the people brewing with Sword of the Meek.
Happy about Eye.
Okay about Sword.
Sceptical about Visions.
I guess we'll see...
Actually, Jund gained a lot in this annoucment: Eldrazi gone, Tron decks get a dent (they don't become unplayable), that will make them weaker (not weaker to Jund, mind you) and thus decrease its numbers.
. 'Fast, streamlined, explosive decks will remain excellent choices in the new format.'
'Then there were Abrupt Decay decks like Jund and Abzan. Those decks can be geared to beat a small handful of known opponents, but in a diverse field, they sometimes lack the raw power necessary to do well. The banning of Eye of Ugin is great news for these decks, but the unbanning of Sword of the Meek and Ancestral Vision is catastrophic. Jund is my favorite deck in modern, and it’s been good to me over the years, but I’m not willing to take it into a field of card-advantage based Snapcaster Mage decks. '
imo AV is an interesting risk, SotM i'd dare say even a mistake
So Jund might have to adapt!? That's a real travesty isn't it?
How exactly would you adapt to other decks consistently outgrinding you? Jund is built to get things down to a topdeck war and win with better topdecks. You'd have to fundamentally change the way the deck functions to do that.
Jund will definitely drop to tier 2, I wonder if Junk can manage, since it's better in a slower meta
I'm happy for blue players, but I'm definitely concerned for GBx. It scares me that BBE was mentioned in the thought process for AV staying banned for so long.
Maybe Sultai will have to become a thing, I don't know. GBx absolutely cannot handle having a blue player draw 3 cards, I wonder if painful truths in the 75 can mitigate this. Guess we'll have a better idea in a month and a half or so
They probably figured BBE is good enough to emulate Shardless Agent, the namesake hyper-value Gray Ogre of Shardless BUG.
Shardless BUG, as far as I know, is probably the absolute best Ancestral Vision deck in existence.
Yeah that's sort of concerning since Legacy is an entirely different format, Shardless Agent is 1 cheaper (which means everything), shares the same colour (so more colour combos available), and most importantly the entire deck is held together by Force of Will, also not present in modern.
BBE in a blue deck is bad, because it basically makes counters terrible. Oh yay, I cascaded into a mana leak... and countered my own BBE.... yay!
I seriously hope people working for wizards development doesn't think that AV in the format prevents BBE from ever coming back.
Who says playing Blue requires counterspells? Just mash together a bunch of value plays across RUG and call it a day.
There's gotta be something 3cmc or less in U that's midrangey.
Vedalken Shackles? It means you can't really run stomping grounds, but if you have academy ruins you can buyback it even through K-Command.
first, it requires both pieces of the combo to be able to do anything
second, by assembling the combo, you dont win, in fact it doesnt do much on that turn either. yes it gives you CA, but again, it doesnt provide any value if you dont have both pieces. It probably will see play, but I dont think they are going to match our expectations and will underperform just like bitterblossom.
I'm a bit concerned about SoTM. If the combo with foundry is as good as it looks on paper, the traditional aggro decks like zoo really have a problem. Banning Eye and then unbanning Visions AND Sword seems like a very risky move without thorough testing (which WotC doesn't do). Let's hope the combo isn't as good as it looks to me because then we'll move from Eldrazi Winter right into Thopter Spring...
What do you think about AV?
Is it a x2, x3 or must it be a playset?
I think there's a case to be made for any number. The more card advantage you've already got, the less you need AV. On the other hand, if you're just running counter spells and 1:1 removal, you probably want 3+.
So glad I got my playset of visions right now. I do not feel like paying 240 bucks for a playset of AV.
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"Some call it a Habit, Cardboard Crack Addict
Tried to pull away, but now I'm Back At it
Love is Emphatic, cards need to be played
Hailing from the BA, accumulating CA"
Yea, those are MTG Bars. What can I say, I am a dork
Jund players whining about AV don't realize that they have options.
AV is not as powerful as some on here seem to think, I've played with it a lot and while its a decent card, it is very slow.
First of all, you have options to deal with AV before it comes down. On the play you can TS, IoK, or Duress that AV and make the blue player's opening hand look terrible. Also, cards like Wasteland Strangler are available if Tempo AV decks start to be a problem.
Second, you might have to grind through the +2 CA that the first AV provides. But that isn't impossible, that's what Jund is good at. The second AV is so slow that you will often have the game locked up by then, and keep in mind AV is a horrible top deck when you are behind on board.
I think people are overestimating the impact an AV unban will have. I love blue control, and I think it did need some help, so I'm pleased. But Reid Duke calling it 'catastrophic' for Jund is just hyperbole. Do some play testing before you start to whine. I promise its not as backbreaking as some are making it out to be.
Affinity is probably going to go back to being the unquestionable strongest deck in modern, so every matchup you're going to have to fight through artifact hate that was meant for affinity.
And people have no problem with this....
And this does nothing to stop a turn 2 TKS which people were whining about so much about.
Jund players whining about AV don't realize that they have options.
AV is not as powerful as some on here seem to think, I've played with it a lot and while its a decent card, it is very slow.
First of all, you have options to deal with AV before it comes down. On the play you can TS, IoK, or Duress that AV and make the blue player's opening hand look terrible. Also, cards like Wasteland Strangler are available if Tempo AV decks start to be a problem.
Second, you might have to grind through the +2 CA that the first AV provides. But that isn't impossible, that's what Jund is good at. The second AV is so slow that you will often have the game locked up by then, and keep in mind AV is a horrible top deck when you are behind on board.
I think people are overestimating the impact an AV unban will have. I love blue control, and I think it did need some help, so I'm pleased. But Reid Duke calling it 'catastrophic' for Jund is just hyperbole. Do some play testing before you start to whine. I promise its not as backbreaking as some are making it out to be.
Are you willing to make bet on that? Jund doesn't have a nut draw curve that invalidates Ancestral Vision unless you are good at stacking your opponent's deck with 3 lands on top.
Everyone complaining about Jund getting the short end of the stick, but it is the deck best suited to weild Ancient Grudge against our returning overlord Affinity, not to mention all the people brewing with Sword of the Meek.
Happy about Eye.
Okay about Sword.
Sceptical about Visions.
I guess we'll see...
Actually, Jund gained a lot in this annoucment: Eldrazi gone, Tron decks get a dent (they don't become unplayable), that will make them weaker (not weaker to Jund, mind you) and thus decrease its numbers.
. 'Fast, streamlined, explosive decks will remain excellent choices in the new format.'
'Then there were Abrupt Decay decks like Jund and Abzan. Those decks can be geared to beat a small handful of known opponents, but in a diverse field, they sometimes lack the raw power necessary to do well. The banning of Eye of Ugin is great news for these decks, but the unbanning of Sword of the Meek and Ancestral Vision is catastrophic. Jund is my favorite deck in modern, and it’s been good to me over the years, but I’m not willing to take it into a field of card-advantage based Snapcaster Mage decks. '
imo AV is an interesting risk, SotM i'd dare say even a mistake
So Jund might have to adapt!? That's a real travesty isn't it?
That was Duke Reid writing that, the most well known Jund player, that actually says a lot
Twin will never be unbanned now... AV + Twin is a no-no, in fact AV is unbanned only because Twin got banned
I'd honestly rather have Twin than AV. I'd also rather have Ponder or Preordain than AV. I mean, don't get me wrong, it's a great card and I'm happy to have it, but it's not a win con and it's not an improvement to the suite of answers. Well, I guess it's an "answer" to discard spells.
Needless to say, I will be playing it. Now just to figure out WTF to use it with... I'm thinking "Blue Jund" with Jace, Snap, Goblin Dark Dwellers, and either Tasigur/Kalitas or Thing in the Ice.
Twin will never be unbanned now... AV + Twin is a no-no, in fact AV is unbanned only because Twin got banned
Kinda this.... like maybe former twin players would disagree but I feel like the only deck AV would of really shined in was twin but outside of that yeah you can play it in any blue control shell but it wont magically make those decks more viable. They will still run into the same problems they did before.
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SonofaBith - Wizards was so excited about making the packaging for Modern Masters 2 recyclable, they decided to make most of the rares and all but 1 of the UC's recycle-bin ready too. Convenient!
Twin will never be unbanned now... AV + Twin is a no-no, in fact AV is unbanned only because Twin got banned
I'd honestly rather have Twin than AV. I'd also rather have Ponder or Preordain than AV. I mean, don't get me wrong, it's a great card and I'm happy to have it, but it's not a win con and it's not an improvement to the suite of answers. Well, I guess it's an "answer" to discard spells.
Needless to say, I will be playing it. Now just to figure out WTF to use it with... I'm thinking "Blue Jund" with Jace, Snap, Goblin Dark Dwellers, and either Tasigur/Kalitas or Thing in the Ice.
I'm using it in a U/W Eldrazi control shell. Since a turn 2 TKS is still explosive. Hell, I could shove in Sword and Foundry..
URW PillowFort Stasis (costruction)
modern:
U Taking Turns combo
pauper:
UB Servitor Control
xenob8 : you know you are going to have a bad time when opponent starts with snow covered island
Oh man So many ways to build thopter combo that I hope it doesnt get compared to splinter twin
UB/x Faeries
UR Storm
XURWB Affinity
G Elves
UW control
Oh god thopter combo with Pia and kiran is so nasty (the tokens get the sword back on cast too) Jesus that will def be a thing
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
So Jund might have to adapt!? That's a real travesty isn't it?
IF you read the ban/update they named cascade as the reason why AV was safe so I think it just became super hard for BBE to come off.
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
Who says playing Blue requires counterspells? Just mash together a bunch of value plays across RUG and call it a day.
There's gotta be something 3cmc or less in U that's midrangey.
How exactly would you adapt to other decks consistently outgrinding you? Jund is built to get things down to a topdeck war and win with better topdecks. You'd have to fundamentally change the way the deck functions to do that.
Vedalken Shackles? It means you can't really run stomping grounds, but if you have academy ruins you can buyback it even through K-Command.
first, it requires both pieces of the combo to be able to do anything
second, by assembling the combo, you dont win, in fact it doesnt do much on that turn either. yes it gives you CA, but again, it doesnt provide any value if you dont have both pieces. It probably will see play, but I dont think they are going to match our expectations and will underperform just like bitterblossom.
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | URPhoenixUR | UWMiraclesUW |GBRJundGBR | UBFaeriesUB | UBWAd NauseumUBW |GBRWBlueless ShadowGBRW |
MTGA
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | UTempoU
I think there's a case to be made for any number. The more card advantage you've already got, the less you need AV. On the other hand, if you're just running counter spells and 1:1 removal, you probably want 3+.
Tried to pull away, but now I'm Back At it
Love is Emphatic, cards need to be played
Hailing from the BA, accumulating CA"
AV is not as powerful as some on here seem to think, I've played with it a lot and while its a decent card, it is very slow.
First of all, you have options to deal with AV before it comes down. On the play you can TS, IoK, or Duress that AV and make the blue player's opening hand look terrible. Also, cards like Wasteland Strangler are available if Tempo AV decks start to be a problem.
Second, you might have to grind through the +2 CA that the first AV provides. But that isn't impossible, that's what Jund is good at. The second AV is so slow that you will often have the game locked up by then, and keep in mind AV is a horrible top deck when you are behind on board.
I think people are overestimating the impact an AV unban will have. I love blue control, and I think it did need some help, so I'm pleased. But Reid Duke calling it 'catastrophic' for Jund is just hyperbole. Do some play testing before you start to whine. I promise its not as backbreaking as some are making it out to be.
Don't worry, Wizards may give you a full year before they ban it again.
And people have no problem with this....
And this does nothing to stop a turn 2 TKS which people were whining about so much about.
Are you willing to make bet on that? Jund doesn't have a nut draw curve that invalidates Ancestral Vision unless you are good at stacking your opponent's deck with 3 lands on top.
That was Duke Reid writing that, the most well known Jund player, that actually says a lot
AV + Thopter combo + Goyf = happy me.
I knew I'd get my goyfs by bying 30 AV's at 1,5 tix each.
This reaction from wizards shows they wanted to apologyze for the big mess they created with the eldrazi and by not emergency banning eye.
I'd honestly rather have Twin than AV. I'd also rather have Ponder or Preordain than AV. I mean, don't get me wrong, it's a great card and I'm happy to have it, but it's not a win con and it's not an improvement to the suite of answers. Well, I guess it's an "answer" to discard spells.
Needless to say, I will be playing it. Now just to figure out WTF to use it with... I'm thinking "Blue Jund" with Jace, Snap, Goblin Dark Dwellers, and either Tasigur/Kalitas or Thing in the Ice.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Kinda this.... like maybe former twin players would disagree but I feel like the only deck AV would of really shined in was twin but outside of that yeah you can play it in any blue control shell but it wont magically make those decks more viable. They will still run into the same problems they did before.
GW Rhys the Redeemed EDH
RUGAnimar, Soul of Elements EDH
WBRAlesha, Who Smiles at Death EDH
I'm using it in a U/W Eldrazi control shell. Since a turn 2 TKS is still explosive. Hell, I could shove in Sword and Foundry..