Please use this thread to discuss the recent 4/24/17 B&R update. This thread will remain open for approximately 7 days for immediate reactions before being closed down. During that time, the customary State of Modern thread will not be open.
When posting in the thread, all MTGS forum rules and Modern subforum rules apply. You may use this thread to talk about anything that is normally acceptable in the State of Modern thread, although the bar for spamming is higher because staff know users will have kneejerk reactions. If spamming becomes an issue, we will update this post and post in the thread accordingly.
While deck diversity is good, we're keeping an eye on color balance. If there's an easy change to the banned list that could open up more decks in the future, we will examine it when other formats have less pressing needs.
At least they're admitting that Modern < Other formats in their eyes. Would have liked to see some unbans but at least there were no bans.
I actually think this is a really good announcement for Modern. No bans is the right call as the meta is still shifting around DS but it's not warping unhealthily IMO. And making explicit mention of monitoring color balance and possibly gobbling up other low-hanging fruit to encourage it is a reversal of position – and a welcome one.
While I'd still like to see some unbans, but IMO this is a really good announcement for Modern.
Top banned in Legacy is really the big takeaway from this one.
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Playing UX Mana Denial until Modern gets the answers it needs.
WUBRG Humans BRW Mardu Pyromancer UW UW "Control" UR Blue Moon
All I got out of this announcement is that they know blue and white suck, and they don't care enough to do anything about it. They know now that they can just as easily say they will keep an eye on it to cover their bases. I mean, how many ban announcements have to pass where everyone agrees white and blue suck and they say they are keeping an eye out for it before people actually call their bluff?
Also if I hear "SFM is too good in legacy, it should never be in modern" again I am going to scream. They just made changes to vintage to make monastery mentor worse, but the card sees zero play in modern (for good reason, it was tried and it isn't very good). Formats are different, a card being broken in one wouldn't even necessarily make it good in a another.
They would cite UW Control preying on Shadow decks, and probably reason that now Grixis Shadow exists, therefore blue is just fine
The bomb in all of this is Sensei's Divining Top being banned, this says that no matter how huge of a pillar a deck is in a format, that it is never safe.
While deck diversity is good, we're keeping an eye on color balance. If there's an easy change to the banned list that could open up more decks in the future, we will examine it when other formats have less pressing needs.
At least they're admitting that Modern < Other formats in their eyes. Would have liked to see some unbans but at least there were no bans.
'Other formats' in this case clearing meaning 'Standard'. I can't imagine that they care more about Legacy or Vintage than Modern.
i agree that color balance is an issue, but i really dont understand why they didnt unban something when they said that they know that there is a problem in modern, sounds stupid at least
"While deck diversity is good, we're keeping an eye on color balance. If there's an easy change to the banned list that could open up more decks in the future, we will examine it when other formats have less pressing needs."
Glad To see they explicitly mention White's lack of play in this format outside of Path and sideboard cards.
Though in all seriousness it appears WOTC is at least AWARE that BOTH WHITE AND BLUE are represented at much lower levels then the other 3 colors in the format. Remember, it's not all about blue.
They would cite UW Control preying on Shadow decks, and probably reason that now Grixis Shadow exists, therefore blue is just fine
The bomb in all of this is Sensei's Divining Top being banned, this says that no matter how huge of a pillar a deck is in a format, that it is never safe.
Operating by your premise is that they're saying blue and white are fine, what color representation problems do you think he's alluding to? Certainly it's not that black or green isn't good enough.
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Playing UX Mana Denial until Modern gets the answers it needs.
WUBRG Humans BRW Mardu Pyromancer UW UW "Control" UR Blue Moon
i think that DS is good for the format AT THE MOMENT, i mean, look, esper and uw control are viable strategies thanks to DS. Control is alive and well, but i really think that something like Big Jace and stoneforge would be good improving other fair strategies without being played along with DS (lke preordain for example)
While deck diversity is good, we're keeping an eye on color balance. If there's an easy change to the banned list that could open up more decks in the future, we will examine it when other formats have less pressing needs.
At least they're admitting that Modern < Other formats in their eyes. Would have liked to see some unbans but at least there were no bans.
'Other formats' in this case clearing meaning 'Standard'. I can't imagine that they care more about Legacy or Vintage than Modern.
As for the announcement: yup.
Well, apparently they were too busy datamining and analyzing Legacy/Vintage (since thats where the actual changes were made) to consider Modern this time around
Look at the legacy/vintage forums reacting - the total # of posts across both formats talking about B&R is less than this thread alone. Oh well, looks like it's gonna be another couple of months of "warping the metagame" around a deck that's lacking relevant answers (specifically in blue) entering the card pool.
i agree that color balance is an issue, but i really dont understand why they didnt unban something when they said that they know that there is a problem in modern, sounds stupid at least
Probably because unbans are either too powerful for Modern (from WotC's point of view) or they wouldn't help color balance issues.
They would cite UW Control preying on Shadow decks, and probably reason that now Grixis Shadow exists, therefore blue is just fine
The bomb in all of this is Sensei's Divining Top being banned, this says that no matter how huge of a pillar a deck is in a format, that it is never safe.
Operating by your premise is that they're saying blue and white are fine, what color representation problems do you think he's alluding to? Certainly it's not that black or green isn't good enough.
They've been saying blue has needed help for a while, I take their brief mentioning of it with a grain of salt until they do something about it, it's obviously not a priority with them.
I probably have another 2 or 3 disappointing announcements before I make that call, but only because I am so stubborn.
On a positive, I have lost any delusion that they actually will do anything I would consider a good decision, so it makes each of these announcements sting less because I already knew ahead of time it wasn't going to matter.
If I thought wizards would even notice me quitting the game and it would help get some message across I would've quit awhile ago in hopes it could influence decision making for the better. But knowing they don't know or care that I play the game makes that pointless. I'll take another few announcements of "we're monitoring it. jk! " before finally giving up.
For one thing, I absolutely do not encourage new players to this game, and actively try to push new players away from it before they get in too deep.
I'm not disgusted by this changes(Top out of Legacy seems right), although they are basically acknowledging that DS WILL be all over the place in the next GP's Top 8's. There are no indications that there's a good natural predator of Death's Shadow and UW is terrible unless you know you'll play Death's Shadow several times in a given tournament.
All in all, many pro's will be crushing coming GP's with Shadow being the top dog. We know they like formats where there is a 'best deck'...
"Amonkhet has a number of exciting and powerful cards, both proactive and reactive"
It seems I may have seen the spoilers for the wrong set. Where are these powerful reactive cards in amonkhet?
They were talking about standard.
I'm okay with the announcement (i never ever habe to play against the stupid Diving Top yeah!), Miracles has been problematic for a long time and standard has taken most of their time for sure.
They admit that modern has some issues and i feel like they really try to avoid making any further mistakes with bans/unbans. Them mentioning DS should be a huge sign for the community. I don't want anything banned but DS decks have literally pushed out many other interactive decks besides Abzan and UW Control out of the format. Maybe thats something to be aware of.
Even in the context of standard the reactive cards are just abysmal compared to the proactive ones. If the disconnect is that big between what they say is "powerful", then I don't understand what R&D is doing while testing the cards.
On card testing: I hear they use a case of Pork & Beans and cardboard cutouts of Tom Selleck and Edward James Olmos.
All I got out of this announcement is that they know blue and white suck, and they don't care enough to do anything about it. They know now that they can just as easily say they will keep an eye on it to cover their bases. I mean, how many ban announcements have to pass where everyone agrees white and blue suck and they say they are keeping an eye out for it before people actually call their bluff?
Also if I hear "SFM is too good in legacy, it should never be in modern" again I am going to scream. They just made changes to vintage to make monastery mentor worse, but the card sees zero play in modern (for good reason, it was tried and it isn't very good). Formats are different, a card being broken in one wouldn't even necessarily make it good in a another.
exactly what I think about MM it is a nightmare in legacy, but modern doesn't have FoW and Daze to round out to 12 free U counters which was a critical mass in legacy with all of the great card filtering.
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4/24/17 announcement: No changes
Link: http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/april-24-2017-banned-and-restricted-announcement-2017-04-24
When posting in the thread, all MTGS forum rules and Modern subforum rules apply. You may use this thread to talk about anything that is normally acceptable in the State of Modern thread, although the bar for spamming is higher because staff know users will have kneejerk reactions. If spamming becomes an issue, we will update this post and post in the thread accordingly.
Enjoy the discussion!
At least they're admitting that Modern < Other formats in their eyes. Would have liked to see some unbans but at least there were no bans.
RUG Temur Deprive Delver
BUG Sultai Deprive Delver
While I'd still like to see some unbans, but IMO this is a really good announcement for Modern.
Top banned in Legacy is really the big takeaway from this one.
WUBRG Humans
BRW Mardu Pyromancer
UW UW "Control"
UR Blue Moon
At least Death's Shadow wasn't banned.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Also if I hear "SFM is too good in legacy, it should never be in modern" again I am going to scream. They just made changes to vintage to make monastery mentor worse, but the card sees zero play in modern (for good reason, it was tried and it isn't very good). Formats are different, a card being broken in one wouldn't even necessarily make it good in a another.
They would cite UW Control preying on Shadow decks, and probably reason that now Grixis Shadow exists, therefore blue is just fine
The bomb in all of this is Sensei's Divining Top being banned, this says that no matter how huge of a pillar a deck is in a format, that it is never safe.
'Other formats' in this case clearing meaning 'Standard'. I can't imagine that they care more about Legacy or Vintage than Modern.
As for the announcement: yup.
Glad To see they explicitly mention White's lack of play in this format outside of Path and sideboard cards.
Though in all seriousness it appears WOTC is at least AWARE that BOTH WHITE AND BLUE are represented at much lower levels then the other 3 colors in the format. Remember, it's not all about blue.
Operating by your premise is that they're saying blue and white are fine, what color representation problems do you think he's alluding to? Certainly it's not that black or green isn't good enough.
WUBRG Humans
BRW Mardu Pyromancer
UW UW "Control"
UR Blue Moon
Well, apparently they were too busy datamining and analyzing Legacy/Vintage (since thats where the actual changes were made) to consider Modern this time around
Look at the legacy/vintage forums reacting - the total # of posts across both formats talking about B&R is less than this thread alone. Oh well, looks like it's gonna be another couple of months of "warping the metagame" around a deck that's lacking relevant answers (specifically in blue) entering the card pool.
Probably because unbans are either too powerful for Modern (from WotC's point of view) or they wouldn't help color balance issues.
Spirits
They've been saying blue has needed help for a while, I take their brief mentioning of it with a grain of salt until they do something about it, it's obviously not a priority with them.
I probably have another 2 or 3 disappointing announcements before I make that call, but only because I am so stubborn.
On a positive, I have lost any delusion that they actually will do anything I would consider a good decision, so it makes each of these announcements sting less because I already knew ahead of time it wasn't going to matter.
If I thought wizards would even notice me quitting the game and it would help get some message across I would've quit awhile ago in hopes it could influence decision making for the better. But knowing they don't know or care that I play the game makes that pointless. I'll take another few announcements of "we're monitoring it. jk! " before finally giving up.
For one thing, I absolutely do not encourage new players to this game, and actively try to push new players away from it before they get in too deep.
All in all, many pro's will be crushing coming GP's with Shadow being the top dog. We know they like formats where there is a 'best deck'...
On card testing: I hear they use a case of Pork & Beans and cardboard cutouts of Tom Selleck and Edward James Olmos.
Although that might have been Games Workshop...
exactly what I think about MM it is a nightmare in legacy, but modern doesn't have FoW and Daze to round out to 12 free U counters which was a critical mass in legacy with all of the great card filtering.