You're missing that the card is still ok versus unfair decks because you are able to put your 4/4 vigilience lifelinker into play at instant speed, incentivizing holding interaction and playing out the threat at instant speed - it's pseudo flash gives it wide purchase. Moreover, decks have access to various tool-boxy abilities like Sword of Feast and Famine for improved interaction and anti-combo discard (or Sword of Fire and Ice to find more answers).
And it will go in tier 3 strategies. Since Batterskull is so bad with Death's Shadow, now is the perfect time for the card.
The fact that people still believe SFM is dangerous is incredible. It will make "inbred" decks in the same way Bitterblossom, Wild Nacatl and Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle did: decks that need a tool at this power level will get one, and become playable. Being scared of a 4-mana 4/4 vigilence lifelinker on turn 3 seems like a very strange position to take when many decks are just going to remove it and kill you through it.
I mean I'm on board with better stack based interaction, but there is no reason for SFM to be banned.
We've known there have been color issues forever though. How long do we give them this "monitor and see" barrier before we actually call them out on it? I'd be willing to bet money at this point we don't see SFM or preordain get unbanned at any point in 2017, despite how ridiculously obvious it is that they are fine.
I think it isn't being read carefully enough. "Easy change" is a HUGE cop out. They don't want to put any work into this format, and they won't unless they see an "easy" change.
Wizards just simply cannot manage this format. They have shown in desperate wording that they are completely overwhelmed; we just had back to back ban announcements where they literally say they didn't put much thought into modern because everything else was such a mess. They admitted if they could've made a change without having to think about it at all then they would've, otherwise they aren't going to focus on modern.
We aren't getting SFM, we aren't get preordain, we aren't getting twin, we aren't getting any powerful blue answers, blue will continue to have an identity only it will share the identity with green which will do it much better, and white will continue to have no identity outside of sideboard cards.
This is modern and it is how it is going to continue to be. If you are expecting/hoping for anything else then just stop and get away. It will save you a lot of heartache in the end. I know it would've me.
I'm very happy for no bans. Much better than banning anything IMO. It means we can safely buy into modern decks without worrying that the deck will be banned out every announcement.
Yes of course some unbans would have been nice, but they aren't completely necessary either.
SFM will only create more inbred decks. And it's a good card only vs fair decks. Modern needs better stack based interactions and hate vs big mana decks that cheat things into play, not new cards that crush the tier 3 strategies.
Who cares about crushing tier 3 decks? I play one, I couldnt care less if a Batterskull hits the ground on Turn 3.
You are right about stack interactions (counterspell Wizards, its not ******* hard) but SFM is a safe card, WE LIVE IN A WORLD OF 1 MANA 7/7's.
If I hear another complaint about most of the cards on the banned list that we have discussed to death (Twin, JTMS, SFM, Preordain) in the face of the hilarity that is Deathshadow and Eldrazi filth, I'll WEEP.
I feel like the fact that Modern since the Probe ban has been the most stable format for a while now is being severely underappreciated in this thread. Standard is basically a 2.5 deck format and Legacy has been dominated by CounterTop for over a year now. For Standard in particular, they've been treading on thin ice ever since the last wave of bans, and the decision to wait for the next Grand Prix to see if Amonkhet can balance out the format was a pretty risky decision that I would assume took up most of their discussion time. Assuming this is true, at this time it makes sense for them not to mess around with a stable, reasonably diverse format by unbanning things that have even the slightest amount of risk (which I can only assume that any team that thought Sword of the Meek would pump Lantern Control too much sees everything on the list as a risk). Now, if they choose not to unban anything after the Standard diversity dilemma is resolved, I'll start questioning whether they actually plan on unbanning anything, but until then I'll still keep hope for more unbans and just be thankful that they didn't nerf Grixis Shadow
Private Mod Note
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Decks
Modern: UWUW Control UBRGrixis Shadow URIzzet Phoenix
It means we can safely buy into modern decks without worrying that the deck will be banned out every announcement.
I donno about that. They specifically called out DS by name; they are clearly keeping an eye on it (with what little vision they care to spare the format). If their justification that it can stay around is condemn exists as a card then expect DS to be banned sooner than later.
I expect the next announcement will be a ban from DS, or a no changes. I'd be shocked if it was anything other than one of those two options.
WoTC is incompetent. Nothing more to say on the matter. It's clear the types of players they want playing their game. How much clearer of a **** you before people get it? As a control player I've lost the only format where you could play control and not feel like you had 0.1% to win the tournament because of your archetype choice. Good going wizards. We gotta monitor Modern because Disallow may need to be on the watchlist. Har har har har.
So it's official - control is now dead in all formats.
I'm at the stage where I'm happy with MTG dying if it means the incompetent idiots at WOTC lose their job. Given the state of standard and the money they are hemorrhaging, this doesn't seem too far off...
No bans is fine, with the caveat that they continue to keep an eye on Death's Shadow.
No unbans is also fine, but I hope with DS likely to boost the percentage of UW Control that there is still consideration for adding something back in the next couple of cycles. Preordain is the obvious one (Ancient Stirrings is still a legal Modern card...) with Stoneforge Mystic close behind.
Naysayers be damned; Modern is relatively healthy at the moment, albeit a little too shaddy for my taste.
They would cite UW Control preying on Shadow decks, and probably reason that now Grixis Shadow exists, therefore blue is just fine
The bomb in all of this is Sensei's Divining Top being banned, this says that no matter how huge of a pillar a deck is in a format, that it is never safe.
Operating by your premise is that they're saying blue and white are fine, what color representation problems do you think he's alluding to? Certainly it's not that black or green isn't good enough.
A different interpretation of his quote could be some colors are too good. Would anyone be completely shocked to see Thoughtseize banned? I wouldn't.
So it's official - control is now dead in all formats.
I'm at the stage where I'm happy with MTG dying if it means the incompetent idiots at WOTC lose their job. Given the state of standard and the money they are hemorrhaging, this doesn't seem too far off...
The game is dead, but they are selling more and more product every year. Interesting...
Modern is dead, but they keep seeing healthy and rising attendance numbers. Interesting....
I don't have a problem with no changes to the banister in and of itself. The format is healthy, but I was hoping to see ponder or JTMS return. What realy scares me is their wording of the explanation. This only seems to be more evidence they are intentionally neglecting modern as they feal it us the major competition for their baby standard.
It to dangerous for the health of magic in general and the stores and bussines invested in the gamejust kill the format with a massive banning or unbanning spree and people would likely realize wizards intentions, so they are just leaving modern in the corner to starve to death.
Unfortunately this will be the worst of both worlds for them, sense even an unsupported modern will continue to draw players away from the awefull mess they have created in standard.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire." —Jaya Ballard, task mage
Fairly disappointed in this, but if they felt they needed to do something about Miracles I can understand not wanting that overshadowing the potential positive press of a modern unban. People are gonna be mad, and any potential good will from say, preordain or stoneforge, would probably be drowned out in the ensuing grump fest about top.
Can I just say I'm also excited for where legacy goes without a 30% deck? Pretty jazzed
Honestly, my faith in Wizards' ability to successfully manage eternal formats was lost long ago. I expect no less from a company completely incapable of taking risks, and where the only true powerful cards are accidents that they never actually wanted to happen.
I mean, at least another of my decks didn't eat a ban (this time), but I find it very, very odd that they go so far out of their way to introduce EXTRA B&R announcements only to give us back-to-back "No Changes." Between the ridiculous oppression of two decks in Standard and the extreme weakness of reactive decks in Modern, I fully expected something banned from Standard and something unbanned in Modern. But alas, the timid turtle hides again because they don't actually care about format health.
So it's official - control is now dead in all formats.
I'm at the stage where I'm happy with MTG dying if it means the incompetent idiots at WOTC lose their job. Given the state of standard and the money they are hemorrhaging, this doesn't seem too far off...
The game is dead, but they are selling more and more product every year. Interesting...
Modern is dead, but they keep seeing healthy and rising attendance numbers. Interesting....
I didn't say modern is dead, I didn't say MTG is dead, I said control is dead...which it is. There is no top tier control deck of any color combination in any format. Dead.
As for your comments, you must have been living under a rock to not have heard that standard is in a death spiral and WOTC has not done this badly in terms of numbers for a very long time.
So it's official - control is now dead in all formats.
I'm at the stage where I'm happy with MTG dying if it means the incompetent idiots at WOTC lose their job. Given the state of standard and the money they are hemorrhaging, this doesn't seem too far off...
The game is dead, but they are selling more and more product every year. Interesting...
Modern is dead, but they keep seeing healthy and rising attendance numbers. Interesting....
I didn't say modern is dead, I didn't say MTG is dead, I said control is dead...which it is. There is no top tier control deck of any color combination in any format. Dead.
As for your comments, you must have been living under a rock to not have heard that standard is in a death spiral and WOTC has not done this badly in terms of numbers for a very long time.
I said Modern is seeing rising attendance numbers. Not Standard.
Most decks in modern have a meta share at 4% or less right now, if you add up all the different control decks, control is doing very well right now, it doesn't really need jace and stoneforge and all that other stuff.
No bans/unbans in modern was great, miracles ban in legacy was kinda feared for a while now, shouldn't have been a huge surprise. Don't know what to say about standard. Probably needed a ban. But the format is frequently dominated by one or two cards, that's just how it is.
if you add up all the different control decks, control is doing very well right now, it doesn't really need jace and stoneforge and all that other stuff.
That's not really true at all. You have one at about 3% that only has a good matchup against a handful of decks (mostly Death's Shadow), and then the rest are extremely weak (with <1% shares to match). You're telling me "control decks" are doing ok? What source of data agrees with that?
Blue Control will never be good in Modern if WOTC was willing to shoot Miracles, the only passable control deck in the Legacy format out of the sky. That means WOTC wants to make sure that any kind of reactive strategy inferior to any new storyline Mythic rare they choose to print in their future sets going forward. If there is any sort of shift towards more answers, I would bet that they will print them at mythic rarity, just because they are a business that puts money first and the health of the game second.
There's several builds floating around at 1%, and if you add in grixis and other colors you're a little above 4% for control. Affinity is at 7-ish% and everything else follows that. Most decks are around 4%. Not sure what else people could want, meta is pretty good right now.
There's several builds floating around at 1%, and if you add in grixis and other colors you're a little above 4% for control. Affinity is at 7-ish% and everything else follows that. Most decks are around 4%. Not sure what else people could want, meta is pretty good right now.
How is it fair to lump a bunch of decks together and compare to the numbers of another single deck? Affinity is just one of many of the extremely fast linear decks and is actually in about as bad of a position as it has been in awhile in modern. So ONE aspect of the linear decks, which is in a worse position compared to other times throughout moderns history, is a greater percentage of the meta than a whole archetype and that is fine?
And it will go in tier 3 strategies. Since Batterskull is so bad with Death's Shadow, now is the perfect time for the card.
The fact that people still believe SFM is dangerous is incredible. It will make "inbred" decks in the same way Bitterblossom, Wild Nacatl and Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle did: decks that need a tool at this power level will get one, and become playable. Being scared of a 4-mana 4/4 vigilence lifelinker on turn 3 seems like a very strange position to take when many decks are just going to remove it and kill you through it.
I mean I'm on board with better stack based interaction, but there is no reason for SFM to be banned.
KnightfallGWUR
Azorius Control UW
Burn RBG
I think it isn't being read carefully enough. "Easy change" is a HUGE cop out. They don't want to put any work into this format, and they won't unless they see an "easy" change.
Wizards just simply cannot manage this format. They have shown in desperate wording that they are completely overwhelmed; we just had back to back ban announcements where they literally say they didn't put much thought into modern because everything else was such a mess. They admitted if they could've made a change without having to think about it at all then they would've, otherwise they aren't going to focus on modern.
We aren't getting SFM, we aren't get preordain, we aren't getting twin, we aren't getting any powerful blue answers, blue will continue to have an identity only it will share the identity with green which will do it much better, and white will continue to have no identity outside of sideboard cards.
This is modern and it is how it is going to continue to be. If you are expecting/hoping for anything else then just stop and get away. It will save you a lot of heartache in the end. I know it would've me.
Yes of course some unbans would have been nice, but they aren't completely necessary either.
Who cares about crushing tier 3 decks? I play one, I couldnt care less if a Batterskull hits the ground on Turn 3.
You are right about stack interactions (counterspell Wizards, its not ******* hard) but SFM is a safe card, WE LIVE IN A WORLD OF 1 MANA 7/7's.
If I hear another complaint about most of the cards on the banned list that we have discussed to death (Twin, JTMS, SFM, Preordain) in the face of the hilarity that is Deathshadow and Eldrazi filth, I'll WEEP.
Spirits
Modern:
UWUW Control
UBRGrixis Shadow
URIzzet Phoenix
I donno about that. They specifically called out DS by name; they are clearly keeping an eye on it (with what little vision they care to spare the format). If their justification that it can stay around is condemn exists as a card then expect DS to be banned sooner than later.
I expect the next announcement will be a ban from DS, or a no changes. I'd be shocked if it was anything other than one of those two options.
I'm at the stage where I'm happy with MTG dying if it means the incompetent idiots at WOTC lose their job. Given the state of standard and the money they are hemorrhaging, this doesn't seem too far off...
No unbans is also fine, but I hope with DS likely to boost the percentage of UW Control that there is still consideration for adding something back in the next couple of cycles. Preordain is the obvious one (Ancient Stirrings is still a legal Modern card...) with Stoneforge Mystic close behind.
Naysayers be damned; Modern is relatively healthy at the moment, albeit a little too shaddy for my taste.
A different interpretation of his quote could be some colors are too good. Would anyone be completely shocked to see Thoughtseize banned? I wouldn't.
Modern is dead, but they keep seeing healthy and rising attendance numbers. Interesting....
RUG Temur Deprive Delver
BUG Sultai Deprive Delver
It to dangerous for the health of magic in general and the stores and bussines invested in the gamejust kill the format with a massive banning or unbanning spree and people would likely realize wizards intentions, so they are just leaving modern in the corner to starve to death.
Unfortunately this will be the worst of both worlds for them, sense even an unsupported modern will continue to draw players away from the awefull mess they have created in standard.
RUG Temur Deprive Delver
BUG Sultai Deprive Delver
Can I just say I'm also excited for where legacy goes without a 30% deck? Pretty jazzed
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
I mean, at least another of my decks didn't eat a ban (this time), but I find it very, very odd that they go so far out of their way to introduce EXTRA B&R announcements only to give us back-to-back "No Changes." Between the ridiculous oppression of two decks in Standard and the extreme weakness of reactive decks in Modern, I fully expected something banned from Standard and something unbanned in Modern. But alas, the timid turtle hides again because they don't actually care about format health.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
I didn't say modern is dead, I didn't say MTG is dead, I said control is dead...which it is. There is no top tier control deck of any color combination in any format. Dead.
As for your comments, you must have been living under a rock to not have heard that standard is in a death spiral and WOTC has not done this badly in terms of numbers for a very long time.
I said Modern is seeing rising attendance numbers. Not Standard.
RUG Temur Deprive Delver
BUG Sultai Deprive Delver
No bans/unbans in modern was great, miracles ban in legacy was kinda feared for a while now, shouldn't have been a huge surprise. Don't know what to say about standard. Probably needed a ban. But the format is frequently dominated by one or two cards, that's just how it is.
That's not really true at all. You have one at about 3% that only has a good matchup against a handful of decks (mostly Death's Shadow), and then the rest are extremely weak (with <1% shares to match). You're telling me "control decks" are doing ok? What source of data agrees with that?
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Twin was as much combo as Ad Nauseum, with a little more reach if the combo failed.
(edit: now that I triggered all of you, no, not serious, not completely anyways :p)
RUG Temur Deprive Delver
BUG Sultai Deprive Delver
KnightfallGWUR
Azorius Control UW
Burn RBG
Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd I'm out.
How is it fair to lump a bunch of decks together and compare to the numbers of another single deck? Affinity is just one of many of the extremely fast linear decks and is actually in about as bad of a position as it has been in awhile in modern. So ONE aspect of the linear decks, which is in a worse position compared to other times throughout moderns history, is a greater percentage of the meta than a whole archetype and that is fine?
LOL!!! I needed a good laugh today, thank you.