We're hoping to update them by the start of December which will give some time before the PT, with another hopeful update right before the PT.
We have been slowly in updating them, I totally agree, and for that I'd like to apologise on behalf of the mod team. Beyond that we are looking for a reputable source to use. After Ktken stepped down from the mod team and had to stop doing the tierlist himself we turned to other lists but they all seemed to have something unique about them. Once all of the mtgo data stopped being released our last source stopped tracking it as well so we have been left with nothing. Instead of blindly using a source, we have been looking at ways to combine them with a weighting system, similar to how it was done before, for the best possible results.
If you have any suggestions you would like to be heard there is still ~1 week before we update the forums.
I personally use MTGGoldfish (not sure if the metrics are accurate, but they seem similar to MTRGtop8 for what it's worth). All decks from 1-8 are Tier 1 and 9-16 are Tier 2 (at least thats how I look at it.) Maybe you guys can use those sites as a reference as well.
I personally use MTGGoldfish (not sure if the metrics are accurate, but they seem similar to MTRGtop8 for what it's worth). All decks from 1-8 are Tier 1 and 9-16 are Tier 2 (at least thats how I look at it.) Maybe you guys can use those sites as a reference as well.
Any site that still uses MTGO Leagues should not be used. Leagues contain deliberately curated results that are intentionally designed to showcase diversity. I would only trust metagame stats that excluded them.
Why don`t we just do the same thing that the Legacy section does.
No Tiers and all that stuff, does not make sense anyway and it takes a lot of time to figure all the stats and stuff out, but just an established and a development section.
Split up the established section in aggro, combo, control and midrange and your good to go.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Legacy - Reanimator
Modern - Burn
EDH - Neheb the Eternal
Why don`t we just do the same thing that the Legacy section does.
No Tiers and all that stuff, does not make sense anyway and it takes a lot of time to figure all the stats and stuff out, but just an established and a development section.
Split up the established section in aggro, combo, control and midrange and your good to go.
On the one hand, I agree that tiers don't really make sense if you aren't tracking the actual metagame shares. And, as you said, this doesn't seem to be happening now in any regular or standardized way, so I can see an argument for eliminating it entirely now that we aren't actually doing it.
On the other hand, there is no way people are going to agree on the aggro/combo/control/midrange distinction for many decks. Have you seen the old banlist thread arguments about those terms? Those arguments were so bad that, for a time, we banned the conversation entirely. So that division is probably a no-go. On top of that, I think most people really do want to know Modern tiers and the terms have stuck around for long enough that it's probably good to fulfill that expectation.
I'd suggest that actually, if you made a reasonable amount of divisions (included midrange/tempo as an option) you wouldn't have such a huge issue.
I believe people feel it's important to have the 'tiers' reflected somehow on this site as a measure of current success in the metagame, but it doesn't have to necessarily be reflected in where you'd find those decks on the site.
If you're a player looking for a deck you've seen somewhere or heard about, would you instinctively know which tier the deck belongs in? Moreover, what if the tier sections haven't been updated in a while? It makes more sense to group decks the way they are being grouped in the legacy part of the forums as a facet of site navigation but also to encourage there to be one place to throw all the metagame tier updates which doesn't require shifting threads around endlessly (which is busywork let's be honest).
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
Why don`t we just do the same thing that the Legacy section does.
No Tiers and all that stuff, does not make sense anyway and it takes a lot of time to figure all the stats and stuff out, but just an established and a development section.
Split up the established section in aggro, combo, control and midrange and your good to go.
On the one hand, I agree that tiers don't really make sense if you aren't tracking the actual metagame shares. And, as you said, this doesn't seem to be happening now in any regular or standardized way, so I can see an argument for eliminating it entirely now that we aren't actually doing it.
On the other hand, there is no way people are going to agree on the aggro/combo/control/midrange distinction for many decks. Have you seen the old banlist thread arguments about those terms? Those arguments were so bad that, for a time, we banned the conversation entirely. So that division is probably a no-go. On top of that, I think most people really do want to know Modern tiers and the terms have stuck around for long enough that it's probably good to fulfill that expectation.
Yeah I seen those discussions about what a deck is and they got out of hand fast
It was just something I like seeing in the LEgacy forum so I thought why not throw it in here.
I see your point and I also agree that people would like to know what is atleast the most played deck is in Modern. Only problem I always have with a Tier system is that it is just a popularity contest most of the time and not all Tier 1 decks are always the best in the format.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Legacy - Reanimator
Modern - Burn
EDH - Neheb the Eternal
Why don`t we just do the same thing that the Legacy section does.
No Tiers and all that stuff, does not make sense anyway and it takes a lot of time to figure all the stats and stuff out, but just an established and a development section.
Split up the established section in aggro, combo, control and midrange and your good to go.
This is something that the mod team has begun to discuss, but as others have said, Modern players really like their tiers and the categories of decks can become quite a heated topic. For now we will continue using the tier system with perhaps experimental periods in the future post PT. I have something that I am working on which I am calling "The Modern Compendium" which would make this idea a bit more viable. I'll probably announce it later and look for help working on it.
Methodology seems solid, even if it's probably missing some of the bigger non-American events.
The November 7th release is what we were currently eyeing to use, but I do agree that it is missing data. Right now there seems to be no all-encompassing metagame update and with this timely new update it will probably be what we are going with rather than trying to mash it and other Goldfish/Top8 data together.
Tier 1/2 subforums haven't changed in forever, and clearly UW control is no longer Tier 1 (for example).
Can mods provide any info?
Thanks!
RWG Burn
GW Abzan Company
We have been slowly in updating them, I totally agree, and for that I'd like to apologise on behalf of the mod team. Beyond that we are looking for a reputable source to use. After Ktken stepped down from the mod team and had to stop doing the tierlist himself we turned to other lists but they all seemed to have something unique about them. Once all of the mtgo data stopped being released our last source stopped tracking it as well so we have been left with nothing. Instead of blindly using a source, we have been looking at ways to combine them with a weighting system, similar to how it was done before, for the best possible results.
If you have any suggestions you would like to be heard there is still ~1 week before we update the forums.
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
I personally use MTGGoldfish (not sure if the metrics are accurate, but they seem similar to MTRGtop8 for what it's worth). All decks from 1-8 are Tier 1 and 9-16 are Tier 2 (at least thats how I look at it.) Maybe you guys can use those sites as a reference as well.
RWG Burn
GW Abzan Company
Any site that still uses MTGO Leagues should not be used. Leagues contain deliberately curated results that are intentionally designed to showcase diversity. I would only trust metagame stats that excluded them.
No Tiers and all that stuff, does not make sense anyway and it takes a lot of time to figure all the stats and stuff out, but just an established and a development section.
Split up the established section in aggro, combo, control and midrange and your good to go.
Modern - Burn
EDH - Neheb the Eternal
On the one hand, I agree that tiers don't really make sense if you aren't tracking the actual metagame shares. And, as you said, this doesn't seem to be happening now in any regular or standardized way, so I can see an argument for eliminating it entirely now that we aren't actually doing it.
On the other hand, there is no way people are going to agree on the aggro/combo/control/midrange distinction for many decks. Have you seen the old banlist thread arguments about those terms? Those arguments were so bad that, for a time, we banned the conversation entirely. So that division is probably a no-go. On top of that, I think most people really do want to know Modern tiers and the terms have stuck around for long enough that it's probably good to fulfill that expectation.
I believe people feel it's important to have the 'tiers' reflected somehow on this site as a measure of current success in the metagame, but it doesn't have to necessarily be reflected in where you'd find those decks on the site.
If you're a player looking for a deck you've seen somewhere or heard about, would you instinctively know which tier the deck belongs in? Moreover, what if the tier sections haven't been updated in a while? It makes more sense to group decks the way they are being grouped in the legacy part of the forums as a facet of site navigation but also to encourage there to be one place to throw all the metagame tier updates which doesn't require shifting threads around endlessly (which is busywork let's be honest).
Yeah I seen those discussions about what a deck is and they got out of hand fast
It was just something I like seeing in the LEgacy forum so I thought why not throw it in here.
I see your point and I also agree that people would like to know what is atleast the most played deck is in Modern. Only problem I always have with a Tier system is that it is just a popularity contest most of the time and not all Tier 1 decks are always the best in the format.
Modern - Burn
EDH - Neheb the Eternal
https://www.reddit.com/r/ModernMagic/comments/7g3w60/latest_developments_in_the_modern_metagame/
Methodology seems solid, even if it's probably missing some of the bigger non-American events.
The November 7th release is what we were currently eyeing to use, but I do agree that it is missing data. Right now there seems to be no all-encompassing metagame update and with this timely new update it will probably be what we are going with rather than trying to mash it and other Goldfish/Top8 data together.
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge