Bridgevine has a serious issue against other creature decks. Affinity and Spirits both have evasion and can sac their own creatures to exile Bridge, as well as brutal sideboard cards. Infect has evasion and can be faster since Bridgevine has little interaction. Elves can overrun when left unchecked. Bogles is nearly unwinnable for Bridgevine
Let the meta correct itself
I agree. Or at least give it a chance. If it doesn't correct itself, then and ONLY then possible talk may happen. It really seemed like a lot of teams felt like they "broke" the meta, but the top 4 lists had what, 2 Humans, 1 KCI, and 1 Hollow Boi?
I played Josh Cho's BridgeVine list at 2 PPTQs. I was 1 turn shy of making the top 8 in the first one, but went a full 2-4 in the next. I usually do much, much better with any of the decks listed in my signature. I know I didn't play it the best. But I should have at least been somewhat solid since I've been playing these type of strategies for decades (although not much recently). I was somewhat underwhelmed by the results, although I do know that variance took a big dump on me yesterday. In 2 of the rounds, I drew pretty nutty hands which dispatched UR Wizards easily but actually still lost a game vs. Storm. All of the rest of the rounds involved me mulliganing and trying to cobble together less than optimal starts. If someone can tell me how the midgame and late game are good with this deck, I'm all ears. (in theory, I believed drawing Stitcher's Apprentice late game with Gravecrawler in the yard is good, but it never came up).
Top 4 lists mean nothing. I wish they posted actual records for each deck. Like raptor only had 2 losses in the Swiss so it’s very possible that Ben gave up 4+ losses in the Swiss and still made the finals. Elsik On kci didn’t have a good record on kci and he’s been playing it a lot. Meta share and deck choice is the most relevant data I think we can take away from any one format in the event.
Top 4 lists mean nothing. I wish they posted actual records for each deck. Like raptor only had 2 losses in the Swiss so it’s very possible that Ben gave up 4+ losses in the Swiss and still made the finals. Elsik On kci didn’t have a good record on kci and he’s been playing it a lot. Meta share and deck choice is the most relevant data I think we can take away from any one format in the event.
Yes, I do agree with this. The problem is that outside of this, it's hard to have any "hard data." A Pro Tour and a TEAM Pro Tour also does not prove how the Modern meta is. It does show what Pros feel would be good at the Pro Tour meta however and what teams came up with. My local guy ran Ad Nauseam. Why? That's his deck. When scrolling through the lists, I noticed a Japanese Pro on Uw Turns. Why did he play that? It's what he enjoys. We all know that no team endorsed playing of either of those decks, so those are outliers. But the rest of the Pro Tour literally looked like BridgeVine vs. KCI vs. Tron vs. UW Control vs. Humans. It is a very inbred meta. (yes, there was an Affinity and a Bogles and some Bant CoCo players)
My issue is that if people HERE on mtgs are going to use 1 tournament to say that Humans/Hollow One/Ancient Stirrings should be banned, then why can I not look at THIS one tournament? For what it's worth, I don't think either way is right.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Boogles (dan ward) always plays boogles. He/his team got dq’d Though round 7.
I think Marcellino Freeman (sp?) played it too. People around my area who have known me the longest know me as the "Bogles" man even though I rarely play the deck anymore. I often want to give up on the deck because of variance, but I have to remember that in the first 2 ever PPTQ seasons, it won me 2 of 3 PPTQs. Since that time, I've played around 25 PPTQs and top 8ed around 15 times, but only won twice (with Grishoalbrand and Titanshift). So, despite Bogles being a terrible deck that loses to good matchups because of variance, it has given me my best accolades in Modern, even if my win percentage is actually only the 4th highest of decks I've played for more than 3 months.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Humans is good, but its hard to say its 'too good' at this point. Its simply the best at what it does.
That's been used here plenty of times in the past to justify a ban. It shouldn't have been a good enough reason then, and it's still not a good reason now.
That's what I'm saying too. I do not support a humans ban, but I believe that, just like many modern best decks before it, it is likely being eyed as a ban target. It was the most played modern deck at the PT because it's considered the best by the pros. I think it is within reason that WOTC consider it for a ban. I DID NOT SAY BAN ANYTHING, just responsibly look at and thoughtfully consider like a good policy maker should. I believe they eyed GDS when it was the best and decided not to ban, we could be in that situation or the birthing pod/twin situation. We are all guessing which of those situations we are in and supporting our side with data points favorable to one side or the other, but I think we can agree that humans is being watched closely.
My local guy ran Ad Nauseam. Why? That's his deck. When scrolling through the lists, I noticed a Japanese Pro on Uw Turns. Why did he play that? It's what he enjoys. We all know that no team endorsed playing of either of those decks, so those are outliers. But the rest of the Pro Tour literally looked like BridgeVine vs. KCI vs. Tron vs. UW Control vs. Humans. It is a very inbred meta. (yes, there was an Affinity and a Bogles and some Bant CoCo players)
I thought this was a very interesting difference in approach between Modern and Legacy deck selection. In Legacy there was very clearly a lot of play what's known to be good while Modern had a lot more play what you know. Basically, it looks to me like the format specialists had their say in Modern, while they were largely ignored in Legacy, and that's why you had nonsense like Andrea Mengucci on Eldrazi and only 3 Storm decks in the entire room.
Stirrings doesnt let you manipulate the top of your library like preordain does; you must bottom the other 4.
I agree that it would make fair decks stronger.
engineered explosives needs a reprint. i miss it when they were $8. will probably never happen again because they will bump rarity up to mythic. i miss $5 chalice of the voids and trinispheres too
Stirrings doesnt let you manipulate the top of your library like preordain does; you must bottom the other 4.
I agree that it would make fair decks stronger.
Preordain also doesnt dig 5, or in the extreme edge case that they dont get gas, its 'Scry 5' and clear that trash to the bottom. For G.
EDIT: EE is obscene now. $104 for the OG printing, and its not like its scarcity. Just gross. I feel like this last print on Chalice did bring it down a bit but I would have to look. I want to say it was once $100 too?
engineered explosives needs a reprint. i miss it when they were $8. will probably never happen again because they will bump rarity up to mythic. i miss $5 chalice of the voids and trinispheres too
Wrong thread, but yes it does. These increased prices just speaks to the popularity of the format.
Maybe after they kill KCI the price will drop, since that's the only deck that plays the card in the main
at this point id rather just see wizards just stay the course. an unban would be nice, but what we are seeing over the last 2 years is that standard sets are making pretty big shifts in the modern ecosystem; which is good. there is going to be some inevitable over and under-evaluation of decks when they enter the scene but the reality has usually fallen somewhere in the middle given time for people to adapt.
the only thing im wondering is when wizards will pull the trigger on what many believe is the inevitable stoneforge unban (or any other unban for that matter). i think the obvious choice is following the next modern pro-tour, as it was for jace/bbe. though im not sure how much wizards is willing to risk such a humans heavy field, and this recent pro-tour was valuable data point for them in determining what decks pros are bringing to the table.
im putting my money on wizards sitting on their hands for the time being because the next standard set is multicolored, which are generally higher powered. if a dinky core set can power up a couple of decks, then guilds of ravnica should do the same.
heres to hoping for some cheap/powerful multicolored humans, cause what could go wrong.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
Who is getting the next great nonland permanent removal that is the question? What guild will be gifted the next Maelstrom Pulse or K-Command. I doubt its RB seeing as that color combo has been running wild in Standard.
Here I hope they say "to hell with it" and reprint Vindicate for the Orzhov. As long as land destruction is reduced to a single 3 CMC spell in the format, their dreaded Ponza deck can't exist in Standard.
Looking forward to Ravnica for sure. As you say, those multicolour sets generally give us some great stuff.
heres to hoping for some cheap/powerful multicolored humans, cause what could go wrong.
lol
yeah like how I remembered in the last ravnica themed set, dimir guild brought us cheap MILL powerful MILL and multicolored MILL
We are pretty close to a Modern Mill deck at this point. It wouldnt take much to push it over the edge into viable I think.
gl with that... I would simply just wish for some real control cards in the UB colors, but knowing WOTC and their "dimir" guild setting, it's gonna be mill, period
Can we get good non-mill dimir cards, please? and preferably not over-costed to high hell while we're at it?
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Decks I have in my bag of tricks- Needless to say, someone who wants to play will probably have a deck UB/x Faeries UR Storm XURWB Affinity G Elves UW control
im actually hoping for a pushed simic card. the UG color combo is woefully underrepresented in modern outside of infect and a few other fringe decks. unfortunately simic isnt one of the guilds in the fall set. with both izzet and dimir on the docket though, id expect grixis to get at least one new toy to play with.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
The problem with Baleful Strix in Ravnica is that it is a coloured artifact. I am not saying it is an impossibility, but if WotC wanted to put coloured artifacts in the set, they'd probably have a mini artifacts-matter theme, and it would be more likely to be izzet since they can be like 'inventions' or something.
Ravnica is the wrong set for a Baleful Strix Modern printing. It would most likely be a core set of a Return to Alara.
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Modern Decks: UBG Lantern Control GBU BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
The problem with Baleful Strix in Ravnica is that it is a coloured artifact. I am not saying it is an impossibility, but if WotC wanted to put coloured artifacts in the set, they'd probably have a mini artifacts-matter theme, and it would be more likely to be izzet since they can be like 'inventions' or something.
Ravnica is the wrong set for a Baleful Strix Modern printing. It would most likely be a core set of a Return to Alara.
Theros had colored artifacts for each of the 5 Gods of that set. It's entirely possible they do a cycle of similar things for the guilds of Ravnica, but still not exactly likely.
Top 4 lists mean nothing. I wish they posted actual records for each deck. Like raptor only had 2 losses in the Swiss so it’s very possible that Ben gave up 4+ losses in the Swiss and still made the finals. Elsik On kci didn’t have a good record on kci and he’s been playing it a lot. Meta share and deck choice is the most relevant data I think we can take away from any one format in the event.
Yes, I do agree with this. The problem is that outside of this, it's hard to have any "hard data." A Pro Tour and a TEAM Pro Tour also does not prove how the Modern meta is. It does show what Pros feel would be good at the Pro Tour meta however and what teams came up with. My local guy ran Ad Nauseam. Why? That's his deck. When scrolling through the lists, I noticed a Japanese Pro on Uw Turns. Why did he play that? It's what he enjoys. We all know that no team endorsed playing of either of those decks, so those are outliers. But the rest of the Pro Tour literally looked like BridgeVine vs. KCI vs. Tron vs. UW Control vs. Humans. It is a very inbred meta. (yes, there was an Affinity and a Bogles and some Bant CoCo players)
My issue is that if people HERE on mtgs are going to use 1 tournament to say that Humans/Hollow One/Ancient Stirrings should be banned, then why can I not look at THIS one tournament? For what it's worth, I don't think either way is right.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)I think Marcellino Freeman (sp?) played it too. People around my area who have known me the longest know me as the "Bogles" man even though I rarely play the deck anymore. I often want to give up on the deck because of variance, but I have to remember that in the first 2 ever PPTQ seasons, it won me 2 of 3 PPTQs. Since that time, I've played around 25 PPTQs and top 8ed around 15 times, but only won twice (with Grishoalbrand and Titanshift). So, despite Bogles being a terrible deck that loses to good matchups because of variance, it has given me my best accolades in Modern, even if my win percentage is actually only the 4th highest of decks I've played for more than 3 months.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)That's what I'm saying too. I do not support a humans ban, but I believe that, just like many modern best decks before it, it is likely being eyed as a ban target. It was the most played modern deck at the PT because it's considered the best by the pros. I think it is within reason that WOTC consider it for a ban. I DID NOT SAY BAN ANYTHING, just responsibly look at and thoughtfully consider like a good policy maker should. I believe they eyed GDS when it was the best and decided not to ban, we could be in that situation or the birthing pod/twin situation. We are all guessing which of those situations we are in and supporting our side with data points favorable to one side or the other, but I think we can agree that humans is being watched closely.
I thought this was a very interesting difference in approach between Modern and Legacy deck selection. In Legacy there was very clearly a lot of play what's known to be good while Modern had a lot more play what you know. Basically, it looks to me like the format specialists had their say in Modern, while they were largely ignored in Legacy, and that's why you had nonsense like Andrea Mengucci on Eldrazi and only 3 Storm decks in the entire room.
Spirits
I agree that it would make fair decks stronger.
Preordain also doesnt dig 5, or in the extreme edge case that they dont get gas, its 'Scry 5' and clear that trash to the bottom. For G.
EDIT: EE is obscene now. $104 for the OG printing, and its not like its scarcity. Just gross. I feel like this last print on Chalice did bring it down a bit but I would have to look. I want to say it was once $100 too?
Spirits
Wrong thread, but yes it does. These increased prices just speaks to the popularity of the format.
Maybe after they kill KCI the price will drop, since that's the only deck that plays the card in the main
the only thing im wondering is when wizards will pull the trigger on what many believe is the inevitable stoneforge unban (or any other unban for that matter). i think the obvious choice is following the next modern pro-tour, as it was for jace/bbe. though im not sure how much wizards is willing to risk such a humans heavy field, and this recent pro-tour was valuable data point for them in determining what decks pros are bringing to the table.
im putting my money on wizards sitting on their hands for the time being because the next standard set is multicolored, which are generally higher powered. if a dinky core set can power up a couple of decks, then guilds of ravnica should do the same.
heres to hoping for some cheap/powerful multicolored humans, cause what could go wrong.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)lol
Spirits
yeah like how I remembered in the last ravnica themed set, dimir guild brought us cheap MILL powerful MILL and multicolored MILL
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | URPhoenixUR | UWMiraclesUW |GBRJundGBR | UBFaeriesUB | UBWAd NauseumUBW |GBRWBlueless ShadowGBRW |
MTGA
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | UTempoU
We are pretty close to a Modern Mill deck at this point. It wouldnt take much to push it over the edge into viable I think.
Spirits
gl with that... I would simply just wish for some real control cards in the UB colors, but knowing WOTC and their "dimir" guild setting, it's gonna be mill, period
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | URPhoenixUR | UWMiraclesUW |GBRJundGBR | UBFaeriesUB | UBWAd NauseumUBW |GBRWBlueless ShadowGBRW |
MTGA
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | UTempoU
UB/x Faeries
UR Storm
XURWB Affinity
G Elves
UW control
Countersquall? I dunno, I tried to think of two and fizzled out after that. Tasigur technically fits if you include his ability. Whatevs.
Fat hope of it appearing on Ravnica though, unless Tezzeret invades for some story reason.
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Big Johnny.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)UBRGrixis ControlUBR | URPhoenixUR | UWMiraclesUW |GBRJundGBR | UBFaeriesUB | UBWAd NauseumUBW |GBRWBlueless ShadowGBRW |
MTGA
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | UTempoU
Ravnica is the wrong set for a Baleful Strix Modern printing. It would most likely be a core set of a Return to Alara.
Modern Decks:
UBG Lantern Control GBU
BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks
UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU
BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate