Hollow Phoenix won that last Modern Challenge I linked.
You know that something is "broken" when Gut Shot is merely played to serve as a free spell to add to the storm count Phoenix is a brewers paradise, it being added to the Burning Inquiry deck makes me puke haha.
Hollow Phoenix won that last Modern Challenge I linked.
You know that something is "broken" when Gut Shot is merely played to serve as a free spell to add to the storm count Phoenix is a brewers paradise, it being added to the Burning Inquiry deck makes me puke haha.
Its pretty nuts. Its what I play in Arena (I dont have the Teferi's or Mythic Wildcards yet) and even there I'll have just disgusting turns, they just happen later than Turn 2 or 3 as we see in the Modern Version.
Card's great, but I had a feeling it would pair best with Black, not Blue.
Hollow Phoenix won that last Modern Challenge I linked.
You know that something is "broken" when Gut Shot is merely played to serve as a free spell to add to the storm count Phoenix is a brewers paradise, it being added to the Burning Inquiry deck makes me puke haha.
Its pretty nuts. Its what I play in Arena (I dont have the Teferi's or Mythic Wildcards yet) and even there I'll have just disgusting turns, they just happen later than Turn 2 or 3 as we see in the Modern Version.
Card's great, but I had a feeling it would pair best with Black, not Blue.
Well since you are gonna take a break from modern you could always explore older formats and brew a bit to achieve the glorious turn 1 phoenix
The answer is not to warp your deck to (try and) even the playing field. The answers is to hope you are simply faster, and that your opponent has tried to play the same non-interactive game, and may the better goldfish win.
Absolute nonsense. I don't know why you are even painting yourself as an apparent Control player in your signature when you don't understand how Control works and what it entails but then Twin was never an actual Control deck.
How are you supposed to you know control what the opponent is doing if you are not actually running the right cards for that? What are you actually controlling then? You just want to draw a bunch of cards and make yourself look smart by playing blue?
You make yourself look like someone who just seems to be averse to change and your constant Twin talk only reinforces that. In that case Standard might really be a better format for you. It's by its nature narrower and requires less adapting.
I see quite a few interesting and fun decks in there but whatever floats your boat. Like I said I wish you much fun in Standard. May Niv-Mizzet, Parun draw you many cards. But then we all know you won't be going anywhere. Normally people who are disinterested in something move on from it but you clearly don't
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Yep. I saw that happen, super funny. My last game of Modern, I was able to bring back 4 on turn 3 (against the Hollow One player). I mean if thats what we are doing now OK I guess.
I'd play Legacy for sure, but I'm never going to pay for Dual Lands, so its just not happening. Standard will be good till rotation I predict, so I've got miles of play 'for free'.
The Modern I play every week (sometimes twice) is full of degenerate nonsense. Those who used to play fair or interactive decks have either stopped player Modern entirely or moved onto to things like Mardu Pyro with main deck Blood Moons (and now Arclights too). We used to have a ton of UW, Jeskai and Grixis players, almost all of which have moved on to playing UR Wizards Burn, or Thing/Arclight Aggro. The only semblance of "control" besides me most days, are a couple of guys playing 8-Rack. Woof. What a great format.
gut shot is surprisingly good right now, ive actually considered it in UW. that and sprinkling in bounce spells. with how much cheating into play is going on they might as well be hard removal.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
How are you supposed to you know control what the opponent is doing if you are not actually running the right cards for that? What are you actually controlling then? You just want to draw a bunch of cards and make yourself look smart by playing blue?
You are forcing the opponent to make a choice: tap out and risk losing to the combo, or slow down and very easily deal with the combo. You are controlling their gameplan by making it disadvantageous (or at least risky) to blindly goldfish their hand and ignore the opponent. Without that fear and respect, we have seen the past 3 years how trash UR control actually is.
[quote from="Colt47 »" url="/forums/the-game/modern/801804-the-state-of-modern-thread-b-r-26-11-2018?comment=118"]
Well, a little seriously now... it would probably slot into a lot of decks if ever unbanned. Summoning any green creature from the deck into play, for just an additional G seems a strong effect for Modern. And let's not forget the mythical turn one fetching of Dryad arbor.
"The mythical turn one Dryad arbor", you guys make it sound like that wins you the game or is extremely busted . There are decks in modern which can have almost insurmountable board states on turn 1/2, like Bridgevine/Hollow One/Dredge. Then there is always the opportunity cost of running a Dryad Arbor in your main deck, for every "x" games you get to tutor up a llanowar elf on turn 1, there will be some games where you draw a summoning sick land or even have it in your starter hand.
There are 4 Green Sun Zenith in the deck and only one Dryad Arbor. The turn 1 fetch arbor from deck with GSZ happens much more often than arbor appearing in opening hand or getting drawn naturally - I know, because have played legacy elves for years. If WoTC unbans GSZ.. I'm sure people will play GSZ and arbor will spike in price.
This has been depressing to watch the last few pages. The Modern I'm playing every week just isn't this doom and gloom format many people here are making it out to be. My pet deck is U/B Faeries, and I enjoy the hell out of playing it. It's not the most competitive deck, and some matchups are like trying to ice skate uphill, but none of those have left me feeling like Modern is in some tailspin into another Eldrazi Winter. When I'm feeling spiky I'll play GDS, and very rarely do I feel like anything but my own skill (or lack thereof) determines the outcome of my games. It's disheartening and frustrating to see post after post talking about how bad Modern has become when it's the highlight of my week. The past two years of playing Magic have been some of the most fun I've had with the game.
Glad to see a post like yours. I'm also enjoying to play even if there are several yard decks. Using Ponza, and it's one of the worst decks to use right now because every variant of Hollow One is a bad match up. However each game, win or lose I gain experience on how to play better. Changed all the Stormbreath Dragon in my deck to Batterskull, lifelink help in racing them when I can ramp fast to 5 mana. Anyway, there are still some burn and tribal decks hanging around that my deck has a decent chance against.
The answer is not to warp your deck to (try and) even the playing field. The answers is to hope you are simply faster, and that your opponent has tried to play the same non-interactive game, and may the better goldfish win.
Absolute nonsense. I don't know why you are even painting yourself as an apparent Control player in your signature when you don't understand how Control works and what it entails but then Twin was never an actual Control deck.
How are you supposed to you know control what the opponent is doing if you are not actually running the right cards for that? What are you actually controlling then? You just want to draw a bunch of cards and make yourself look smart by playing blue?
You make yourself look like someone who just seems to be averse to change and your constant Twin talk only reinforces that. In that case Standard might really be a better format for you. It's by its nature narrower and requires less adapting.
I see quite a few interesting and fun decks in there but whatever floats your boat. Like I said I wish you much fun in Standard. May Niv-Mizzet, Parun draw you many cards. But then we all know you won't be going anywhere. Normally people who are disinterested in something move on from it but you clearly don't
You were not yet back at the start of the year. All I played for months was UWR, in Modern, because when Humans was far and away the most popular deck, before Tron saw an uptick, and before Dredge came back pushing things into this warped format we have now, you could 'adapt' and tune for it. For an extended period of time, I thought hollow one was just terrible as I was able to beat it week after week with things like Abrade, Anger (for the phoenix/ghasts of course not the hollow's) and Humans/Burn/GW Counters all went down to Bolts/Helix and so on.
I'm not a 'True' Control player, I leave that to the UW types, but if UWR is Control, it's certainly what I have played more this year, beyond anything else, even UR Thing.
I'll take the 'you dont know how Control works' and let it slide though. You do you, and enjoy your return.
The Modern I play every week (sometimes twice) is full of degenerate nonsense. Those who used to play fair or interactive decks have either stopped player Modern entirely or moved onto to things like Mardu Pyro with main deck Blood Moons (and now Arclights too). We used to have a ton of UW, Jeskai and Grixis players, almost all of which have moved on to playing UR Wizards Burn, or Thing/Arclight Aggro. The only semblance of "control" besides me most days, are a couple of guys playing 8-Rack. Woof. What a great format.
Mardu Pyromancer? Arclight Aggro?? UR Wizards??? 8-Rack???!? Sign me up!
@shadowsaotome - I love modern and regularly play it, the only critique against modern I currently have is the sheer number of decks with possible nut draws which leave the opponent with a feeling of impotence. I mean, lets count the decks that have a possible turn 3 kill in the format.
1. Burn
2. Storm
3. Devoted Company
4. Grixis Death`s Shadow
5. Dredge
6. Hollow One
7. KCI
8. Affinity
9. Hardened Scales Affinity
10. Bridgevine
11. Amulet Titan
Less played decks
12. Cheerios
13. Griselbrand
14. Infect
And this was only off the top of my head, feel free to add more to the list.
This is not to take away from the average draws of each deck which can cause extremely intricate gameplay giving even the most skilled players trouble to find the best lines. Take Brad Nelson for example, he is an insanely good player but since he dislikes Modern he will never take the time to learn all the nuances of a specific deck, thus having a really hard time winning any big tournament in modern.
Collins Mullen, the guy who popularized Humans recently tweeted about the deck not being good in modern anymore. Although it is hyperbole, it definitely lost some steam comparing to the last few months, something I find fascinating considering the list above and how Humans is meant to prey on combo decks and linearity. I would have thought that it would strive in such a metagame. Are people gravitating towards Spirits now?
You are forcing the opponent to make a choice: tap out and risk losing to the combo, or slow down and very easily deal with the combo. You are controlling their gameplan by making it disadvantageous (or at least risky) to blindly goldfish their hand and ignore the opponent. Without that fear and respect, we have seen the past 3 years how trash UR control actually is.
Lol very easily. How do you suggest we do that when you can just have a dispel or any other counter if we wait too long?
UR control was always trash, UR combo on the other hand is still going strong in 2018, even though Storm is not as clearly tier 1 as Twin was.
You are forcing the opponent to make a choice: tap out and risk losing to the combo, or slow down and very easily deal with the combo. You are controlling their gameplan by making it disadvantageous (or at least risky) to blindly goldfish their hand and ignore the opponent. Without that fear and respect, we have seen the past 3 years how trash UR control actually is.
Lol very easily. How do you suggest we do that when you can just have a dispel or any other counter if we wait too long?
Cast a discard spell, take a combo piece or protection piece. Cast Abrupt Decay. Play your own counterspells. Pressure Twin to spend its own resources instead of trying to jam the combo.
Even then, going under the assumption that Twin maindecks Dispel (which it doesn't), you're looking at a Turn 5 kill, which is slow by Modern's standards. Or do you tap out against Infect? Do you tap out against Storm? Boo hoo. With Twin, you might get punished on Turn 5 in magical Christmas land when Twin peels a godhand. Meanwhile, other decks in Modern are doing the same thing on turn 2 and 3.
This blatant ignorance of basic deck operation, as well as totally unfounded and misrepresentations of the deck are why we should just ban discussion about the deck again. It's tiresome having to deal with it all the time.
You are forcing the opponent to make a choice: tap out and risk losing to the combo, or slow down and very easily deal with the combo. You are controlling their gameplan by making it disadvantageous (or at least risky) to blindly goldfish their hand and ignore the opponent. Without that fear and respect, we have seen the past 3 years how trash UR control actually is.
Lol very easily. How do you suggest we do that when you can just have a dispel or any other counter if we wait too long?
Cast a discard spell, take a combo piece or protection piece. Cast Abrupt Decay. Play your own counterspells. Pressure Twin to spend its own resources instead of trying to jam the combo.
Even then, going under the assumption that Twin maindecks Dispel (which it doesn't), you're looking at a Turn 5 kill, which is slow by Modern's standards. Or do you tap out against Infect? Do you tap out against Storm? Boo hoo. With Twin, you might get punished on Turn 5 in magical Christmas land when Twin peels a godhand. Meanwhile, other decks in Modern are doing the same thing on turn 2 and 3.
This blatant ignorance of basic deck operation, as well as totally unfounded and misrepresentations of the deck are why we should just ban discussion about the deck again. It's tiresome having to deal with it all the time.
It is futile arguing with you, any reasonable argument will just fall on deaf ears as it has these past years, I just had to laugh at the "very easily" and "UR control".
You are forcing the opponent to make a choice: tap out and risk losing to the combo, or slow down and very easily deal with the combo. You are controlling their gameplan by making it disadvantageous (or at least risky) to blindly goldfish their hand and ignore the opponent. Without that fear and respect, we have seen the past 3 years how trash UR control actually is.
Lol very easily. How do you suggest we do that when you can just have a dispel or any other counter if we wait too long?
Do you tap out against Storm?
The Storm player who bought my playset of manamorphose said if he could untap with 2 mana on turn 3 with Baral alive.. he can combo right there if opponent does not interact.
That's why I always kill their creatures if possible.
You are forcing the opponent to make a choice: tap out and risk losing to the combo, or slow down and very easily deal with the combo. You are controlling their gameplan by making it disadvantageous (or at least risky) to blindly goldfish their hand and ignore the opponent. Without that fear and respect, we have seen the past 3 years how trash UR control actually is.
Lol very easily. How do you suggest we do that when you can just have a dispel or any other counter if we wait too long?
Cast a discard spell, take a combo piece or protection piece. Cast Abrupt Decay. Play your own counterspells. Pressure Twin to spend its own resources instead of trying to jam the combo.
Even then, going under the assumption that Twin maindecks Dispel (which it doesn't), you're looking at a Turn 5 kill, which is slow by Modern's standards. Or do you tap out against Infect? Do you tap out against Storm? Boo hoo. With Twin, you might get punished on Turn 5 in magical Christmas land when Twin peels a godhand. Meanwhile, other decks in Modern are doing the same thing on turn 2 and 3.
This blatant ignorance of basic deck operation, as well as totally unfounded and misrepresentations of the deck are why we should just ban discussion about the deck again. It's tiresome having to deal with it all the time.
It is futile arguing with you, any reasonable argument will just fall on deaf ears as it has these past years, I just had to laugh at the "very easily" and "UR control".
It is very easy to interact with. If you're struggling, perhaps you're playing a deck that chooses to cut interaction in order to speed up your goldfish plan. Which is entirely the reason why Twin would be a benefit to the format, because it would discourage that practice (which is currently the absolute best choice in Modern deckbuilding).
Your complaint that "BUT TWIN COULD HAVE DISPEL ON TURN 5+" is unbelievably weak and thin, and almost entirely irrelevant to the reality of playing Modern today.
How are you supposed to you know control what the opponent is doing if you are not actually running the right cards for that? What are you actually controlling then? You just want to draw a bunch of cards and make yourself look smart by playing blue?
You are forcing the opponent to make a choice: tap out and risk losing to the combo, or slow down and very easily deal with the combo. You are controlling their gameplan by making it disadvantageous (or at least risky) to blindly goldfish their hand and ignore the opponent. Without that fear and respect, we have seen the past 3 years how trash UR control actually is.
You have responded to me several times now and somehow you always managed to steer back to UR decks. I was never talking about them when I talk about Control. Im talking about actual Control decks which UR has pretty much never been. UW and UB are the typical Control colors and I was talking about maindecking Rest in Peace since that is clearly adapting to what you can face and that is exactly what Control decks have to do. That people are surprised and baffled by it is what is astonishing.
You are forcing the opponent to make a choice: tap out and risk losing to the combo, or slow down and very easily deal with the combo. You are controlling their gameplan by making it disadvantageous (or at least risky) to blindly goldfish their hand and ignore the opponent. Without that fear and respect, we have seen the past 3 years how trash UR control actually is.
Lol very easily. How do you suggest we do that when you can just have a dispel or any other counter if we wait too long?
Cast a discard spell, take a combo piece or protection piece. Cast Abrupt Decay. Play your own counterspells. Pressure Twin to spend its own resources instead of trying to jam the combo.
Even then, going under the assumption that Twin maindecks Dispel (which it doesn't), you're looking at a Turn 5 kill, which is slow by Modern's standards. Or do you tap out against Infect? Do you tap out against Storm? Boo hoo. With Twin, you might get punished on Turn 5 in magical Christmas land when Twin peels a godhand. Meanwhile, other decks in Modern are doing the same thing on turn 2 and 3.
This blatant ignorance of basic deck operation, as well as totally unfounded and misrepresentations of the deck are why we should just ban discussion about the deck again. It's tiresome having to deal with it all the time.
twin played dispel at various points, similarly pact of negation. mostly you saw this in the earlier builds that doubled down on the combo with kiki jiki. naturally the deck gravitated towards less emphasis on the combo itself much like pod. id call it a common occurrence for a lot of decks or interactions. while its young its about focusing on that one strong thing but as people respond it becomes about finding how little you can do to still enable said thing while still doing other things. nevertheless those builds still stick around, but are just seen less frequently.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
How are you supposed to you know control what the opponent is doing if you are not actually running the right cards for that? What are you actually controlling then? You just want to draw a bunch of cards and make yourself look smart by playing blue?
You are forcing the opponent to make a choice: tap out and risk losing to the combo, or slow down and very easily deal with the combo. You are controlling their gameplan by making it disadvantageous (or at least risky) to blindly goldfish their hand and ignore the opponent. Without that fear and respect, we have seen the past 3 years how trash UR control actually is.
You have responded to me several times now and somehow you always managed to steer back to UR decks. I was never talking about them when I talk about Control. Im talking about actual Control decks which UR has pretty much never been. UW and UB are the typical Control colors and I was talking about maindecking Rest in Peace since that is clearly adapting to what you can face and that is exactly what Control decks have to do. That people are surprised and baffled by it is what is astonishing.
The issue is, we moved past 'thats not real control' what feels like years ago. Its the few Esper Draw Go hold outs that keep that up.
You are forcing the opponent to make a choice: tap out and risk losing to the combo, or slow down and very easily deal with the combo. You are controlling their gameplan by making it disadvantageous (or at least risky) to blindly goldfish their hand and ignore the opponent. Without that fear and respect, we have seen the past 3 years how trash UR control actually is.
Lol very easily. How do you suggest we do that when you can just have a dispel or any other counter if we wait too long?
Cast a discard spell, take a combo piece or protection piece. Cast Abrupt Decay. Play your own counterspells. Pressure Twin to spend its own resources instead of trying to jam the combo.
Even then, going under the assumption that Twin maindecks Dispel (which it doesn't), you're looking at a Turn 5 kill, which is slow by Modern's standards. Or do you tap out against Infect? Do you tap out against Storm? Boo hoo. With Twin, you might get punished on Turn 5 in magical Christmas land when Twin peels a godhand. Meanwhile, other decks in Modern are doing the same thing on turn 2 and 3.
This blatant ignorance of basic deck operation, as well as totally unfounded and misrepresentations of the deck are why we should just ban discussion about the deck again. It's tiresome having to deal with it all the time.
twin played dispel at various points, similarly pact of negation. mostly you saw this in the earlier builds that doubled down on the combo with kiki jiki. naturally the deck gravitated towards less emphasis on the combo itself much like pod. id call it a common occurrence for a lot of decks or interactions. while its young its about focusing on that one strong thing but as people respond it becomes about finding how little you can do to still enable said thing while still doing other things. nevertheless those builds still stick around, but are just seen less frequently.
This reminded me of one of the craziest posts I've seen here and that's saying a lot! I saw the suggestion of Dispel to be banned. Sorry, your post brought back funny memories.
Pact of Negation, I personally didn't see that one, but that would actually be very smart. If I had played Twin more than I did (rarely played anything outside of RUG Twin, ala Todd Anderson/Patrick Dickmann), I would have tried that out. I actually had an idea to try that out, as well as an idea to eventually adopt Gitaxian Probe to any deck not soft to Burn.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
You are forcing the opponent to make a choice: tap out and risk losing to the combo, or slow down and very easily deal with the combo. You are controlling their gameplan by making it disadvantageous (or at least risky) to blindly goldfish their hand and ignore the opponent. Without that fear and respect, we have seen the past 3 years how trash UR control actually is.
Lol very easily. How do you suggest we do that when you can just have a dispel or any other counter if we wait too long?
Cast a discard spell, take a combo piece or protection piece. Cast Abrupt Decay. Play your own counterspells. Pressure Twin to spend its own resources instead of trying to jam the combo.
Even then, going under the assumption that Twin maindecks Dispel (which it doesn't), you're looking at a Turn 5 kill, which is slow by Modern's standards. Or do you tap out against Infect? Do you tap out against Storm? Boo hoo. With Twin, you might get punished on Turn 5 in magical Christmas land when Twin peels a godhand. Meanwhile, other decks in Modern are doing the same thing on turn 2 and 3.
This blatant ignorance of basic deck operation, as well as totally unfounded and misrepresentations of the deck are why we should just ban discussion about the deck again. It's tiresome having to deal with it all the time.
It is futile arguing with you, any reasonable argument will just fall on deaf ears as it has these past years, I just had to laugh at the "very easily" and "UR control".
It is very easy to interact with. If you're struggling, perhaps you're playing a deck that chooses to cut interaction in order to speed up your goldfish plan. Which is entirely the reason why Twin would be a benefit to the format, because it would discourage that practice (which is currently the absolute best choice in Modern deckbuilding).
Your complaint that "BUT TWIN COULD HAVE DISPEL ON TURN 5+" is unbelievably weak and thin, and almost entirely irrelevant to the reality of playing Modern today.
It was no complaint, I actually don`t mind Splinter Twin as much as I believe you think I do, I played against it ALOT in the past as you can imagine and I found the games challenging and intriguing with the occasional feel bad moments.
I just had to point out that you completely inflate your arguments sometimes to fuel your agenda, giving Dispel as a simple example to address the huge difference between Splinter Twin and every other combo deck out there, including the two you mentioned above. Do you see any other combo deck running as much interaction as Twin does, to both buy time and later support the combo?
Twin reaches turn 5 much easier than any other combo deck does, it functions as a control deck until you feel ready to combo, so you should take those turns more into consideration. "Other decks are doing the same thing on turn 2 and 3", but they hardly straight up win against control/midrange on those turns, or have you seen a Storm/Infect/combo player try to go off against Jeskai or BG on turn 3 into open mana?
The play patterns often differ completely if you are playing against a control deck or an uninteractive deck, and Twin manages to buy time by being a control deck and then dedicating 10+ slots to combo off in a pinch, heck even the creatures can interact and tap down a Hollow One if need be.
Another thing I want to mention, stating that Splinter Twin did not run Dispel maindeck, which in fact it did very rarely, is not representative of how the deck would look like today, the metagame is completely different now. Take the past decklists with a grain of salt, Remand for example is much worse than it was back in the day.
The point is, the "very easily" is not true as it is for other combo decks, since you can actually deal with the ways your opponent has to interact, and all that while restricting them by one mana by tapping down a land EOT on the crucial turn.
A one liner with a "lol" included is obviously not meant to be a strong argument but was rather meant to transmit the above without getting into it since it has been discussed time and time again and I`m fed up of the Twin talk and constant complaints being spewed around in this thread. I post here every few months and it really feels like some people here froze in time. You want a police deck? Humans/Spirits/GDS is the closest you get. You want a combo deck? Then pick your poison, there are enough out there.
yeah i moved on. i mentioned a few pages back or whatever, but i recognized after the banning that much of the allure of the deck for me was baked into its power. its a great feeling to know for absolutely sure you are playing one of, if the THE, best decks in room while also enjoying it. no matter how you dress up liking the particular play patterns, it only matters if it wins. you can play kiki-mite right now and do similar stuff. it just sucks though.
ive never even attempted to chase a meta deck like i did when i bought into twin. so instead i focused on honing the few other things ive had access to, while just accepting that there are just objectively more powerful things going on that dont appeal to me.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
Collins Mullen, the guy who popularized Humans recently tweeted about the deck not being good in modern anymore. Although it is hyperbole, it definitely lost some steam comparing to the last few months, something I find fascinating considering the list above and how Humans is meant to prey on combo decks and linearity. I would have thought that it would strive in such a metagame. Are people gravitating towards Spirits now?
Looks like it and I wouldn't be surprised at all. I have not played those decks so I can only talk as an outsider but I don't really see what Humans does better than Spirits.
Playing against Spirits is way more punishing if you actually care about the board. Every single threat in the deck has flying and if you look at pretty much every other creature that is commonly played in Modern almost none of them have flying or reach so stonewalling them with big bodies like Tarmogoyfs or Gurmag Anglers isn't happening.
Two Drogskol Captains is basically board wipe or bust in terms of interaction that you have left against their creatures.
Many of their threats have Flash naturally and with Rattlechains everything has so you always have to be on your toes.
Spell Queller is a beating and a huge tempo swing since the opponent actually had to cast the card unlike with Kitesail Freebooter.
It's mana base is obviously less constrained and it can and does run non-creature spells too which is also the last point.
If all those things haven't been good enough already it's also a Collected Company deck so it has no trouble reloading against non-blue decks.
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Modern: UW Control
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Spirits
You know that something is "broken" when Gut Shot is merely played to serve as a free spell to add to the storm count Phoenix is a brewers paradise, it being added to the Burning Inquiry deck makes me puke haha.
Its pretty nuts. Its what I play in Arena (I dont have the Teferi's or Mythic Wildcards yet) and even there I'll have just disgusting turns, they just happen later than Turn 2 or 3 as we see in the Modern Version.
Card's great, but I had a feeling it would pair best with Black, not Blue.
Spirits
Well since you are gonna take a break from modern you could always explore older formats and brew a bit to achieve the glorious turn 1 phoenix
https://clips.twitch.tv/SucculentFineCattleRiPepperonis
Edit: Electromancer is fairly innocuous but even in Standard it enables busted things gotta love playing 6 mana worth of cards for half the cost.
Absolute nonsense. I don't know why you are even painting yourself as an apparent Control player in your signature when you don't understand how Control works and what it entails but then Twin was never an actual Control deck.
How are you supposed to you know control what the opponent is doing if you are not actually running the right cards for that? What are you actually controlling then? You just want to draw a bunch of cards and make yourself look smart by playing blue?
You make yourself look like someone who just seems to be averse to change and your constant Twin talk only reinforces that. In that case Standard might really be a better format for you. It's by its nature narrower and requires less adapting.
I see quite a few interesting and fun decks in there but whatever floats your boat. Like I said I wish you much fun in Standard. May Niv-Mizzet, Parun draw you many cards. But then we all know you won't be going anywhere. Normally people who are disinterested in something move on from it but you clearly don't
I'd play Legacy for sure, but I'm never going to pay for Dual Lands, so its just not happening. Standard will be good till rotation I predict, so I've got miles of play 'for free'.
Spirits
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)You are forcing the opponent to make a choice: tap out and risk losing to the combo, or slow down and very easily deal with the combo. You are controlling their gameplan by making it disadvantageous (or at least risky) to blindly goldfish their hand and ignore the opponent. Without that fear and respect, we have seen the past 3 years how trash UR control actually is.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
There are 4 Green Sun Zenith in the deck and only one Dryad Arbor. The turn 1 fetch arbor from deck with GSZ happens much more often than arbor appearing in opening hand or getting drawn naturally - I know, because have played legacy elves for years. If WoTC unbans GSZ.. I'm sure people will play GSZ and arbor will spike in price.
Glad to see a post like yours. I'm also enjoying to play even if there are several yard decks. Using Ponza, and it's one of the worst decks to use right now because every variant of Hollow One is a bad match up. However each game, win or lose I gain experience on how to play better. Changed all the Stormbreath Dragon in my deck to Batterskull, lifelink help in racing them when I can ramp fast to 5 mana. Anyway, there are still some burn and tribal decks hanging around that my deck has a decent chance against.
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Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
You were not yet back at the start of the year. All I played for months was UWR, in Modern, because when Humans was far and away the most popular deck, before Tron saw an uptick, and before Dredge came back pushing things into this warped format we have now, you could 'adapt' and tune for it. For an extended period of time, I thought hollow one was just terrible as I was able to beat it week after week with things like Abrade, Anger (for the phoenix/ghasts of course not the hollow's) and Humans/Burn/GW Counters all went down to Bolts/Helix and so on.
I'm not a 'True' Control player, I leave that to the UW types, but if UWR is Control, it's certainly what I have played more this year, beyond anything else, even UR Thing.
I'll take the 'you dont know how Control works' and let it slide though. You do you, and enjoy your return.
Spirits
@shadowsaotome - I love modern and regularly play it, the only critique against modern I currently have is the sheer number of decks with possible nut draws which leave the opponent with a feeling of impotence. I mean, lets count the decks that have a possible turn 3 kill in the format.
1. Burn
2. Storm
3. Devoted Company
4. Grixis Death`s Shadow
5. Dredge
6. Hollow One
7. KCI
8. Affinity
9. Hardened Scales Affinity
10. Bridgevine
11. Amulet Titan
Less played decks
12. Cheerios
13. Griselbrand
14. Infect
And this was only off the top of my head, feel free to add more to the list.
This is not to take away from the average draws of each deck which can cause extremely intricate gameplay giving even the most skilled players trouble to find the best lines. Take Brad Nelson for example, he is an insanely good player but since he dislikes Modern he will never take the time to learn all the nuances of a specific deck, thus having a really hard time winning any big tournament in modern.
Collins Mullen, the guy who popularized Humans recently tweeted about the deck not being good in modern anymore. Although it is hyperbole, it definitely lost some steam comparing to the last few months, something I find fascinating considering the list above and how Humans is meant to prey on combo decks and linearity. I would have thought that it would strive in such a metagame. Are people gravitating towards Spirits now? Lol very easily. How do you suggest we do that when you can just have a dispel or any other counter if we wait too long?
UR control was always trash, UR combo on the other hand is still going strong in 2018, even though Storm is not as clearly tier 1 as Twin was.
Cast a discard spell, take a combo piece or protection piece. Cast Abrupt Decay. Play your own counterspells. Pressure Twin to spend its own resources instead of trying to jam the combo.
Even then, going under the assumption that Twin maindecks Dispel (which it doesn't), you're looking at a Turn 5 kill, which is slow by Modern's standards. Or do you tap out against Infect? Do you tap out against Storm? Boo hoo. With Twin, you might get punished on Turn 5 in magical Christmas land when Twin peels a godhand. Meanwhile, other decks in Modern are doing the same thing on turn 2 and 3.
This blatant ignorance of basic deck operation, as well as totally unfounded and misrepresentations of the deck are why we should just ban discussion about the deck again. It's tiresome having to deal with it all the time.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
It is futile arguing with you, any reasonable argument will just fall on deaf ears as it has these past years, I just had to laugh at the "very easily" and "UR control".
The Storm player who bought my playset of manamorphose said if he could untap with 2 mana on turn 3 with Baral alive.. he can combo right there if opponent does not interact.
That's why I always kill their creatures if possible.
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Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
It is very easy to interact with. If you're struggling, perhaps you're playing a deck that chooses to cut interaction in order to speed up your goldfish plan. Which is entirely the reason why Twin would be a benefit to the format, because it would discourage that practice (which is currently the absolute best choice in Modern deckbuilding).
Your complaint that "BUT TWIN COULD HAVE DISPEL ON TURN 5+" is unbelievably weak and thin, and almost entirely irrelevant to the reality of playing Modern today.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
You have responded to me several times now and somehow you always managed to steer back to UR decks. I was never talking about them when I talk about Control. Im talking about actual Control decks which UR has pretty much never been. UW and UB are the typical Control colors and I was talking about maindecking Rest in Peace since that is clearly adapting to what you can face and that is exactly what Control decks have to do. That people are surprised and baffled by it is what is astonishing.
twin played dispel at various points, similarly pact of negation. mostly you saw this in the earlier builds that doubled down on the combo with kiki jiki. naturally the deck gravitated towards less emphasis on the combo itself much like pod. id call it a common occurrence for a lot of decks or interactions. while its young its about focusing on that one strong thing but as people respond it becomes about finding how little you can do to still enable said thing while still doing other things. nevertheless those builds still stick around, but are just seen less frequently.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)The issue is, we moved past 'thats not real control' what feels like years ago. Its the few Esper Draw Go hold outs that keep that up.
Spirits
This reminded me of one of the craziest posts I've seen here and that's saying a lot! I saw the suggestion of Dispel to be banned. Sorry, your post brought back funny memories.
Pact of Negation, I personally didn't see that one, but that would actually be very smart. If I had played Twin more than I did (rarely played anything outside of RUG Twin, ala Todd Anderson/Patrick Dickmann), I would have tried that out. I actually had an idea to try that out, as well as an idea to eventually adopt Gitaxian Probe to any deck not soft to Burn.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)I just had to point out that you completely inflate your arguments sometimes to fuel your agenda, giving Dispel as a simple example to address the huge difference between Splinter Twin and every other combo deck out there, including the two you mentioned above. Do you see any other combo deck running as much interaction as Twin does, to both buy time and later support the combo?
Twin reaches turn 5 much easier than any other combo deck does, it functions as a control deck until you feel ready to combo, so you should take those turns more into consideration. "Other decks are doing the same thing on turn 2 and 3", but they hardly straight up win against control/midrange on those turns, or have you seen a Storm/Infect/combo player try to go off against Jeskai or BG on turn 3 into open mana?
The play patterns often differ completely if you are playing against a control deck or an uninteractive deck, and Twin manages to buy time by being a control deck and then dedicating 10+ slots to combo off in a pinch, heck even the creatures can interact and tap down a Hollow One if need be.
Another thing I want to mention, stating that Splinter Twin did not run Dispel maindeck, which in fact it did very rarely, is not representative of how the deck would look like today, the metagame is completely different now. Take the past decklists with a grain of salt, Remand for example is much worse than it was back in the day.
The point is, the "very easily" is not true as it is for other combo decks, since you can actually deal with the ways your opponent has to interact, and all that while restricting them by one mana by tapping down a land EOT on the crucial turn.
A one liner with a "lol" included is obviously not meant to be a strong argument but was rather meant to transmit the above without getting into it since it has been discussed time and time again and I`m fed up of the Twin talk and constant complaints being spewed around in this thread. I post here every few months and it really feels like some people here froze in time. You want a police deck? Humans/Spirits/GDS is the closest you get. You want a combo deck? Then pick your poison, there are enough out there.
ive never even attempted to chase a meta deck like i did when i bought into twin. so instead i focused on honing the few other things ive had access to, while just accepting that there are just objectively more powerful things going on that dont appeal to me.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)Looks like it and I wouldn't be surprised at all. I have not played those decks so I can only talk as an outsider but I don't really see what Humans does better than Spirits.