We may be getting to a point where there is little to no GP coverage anyway based on the lack of answers from Wizards, so it could just be SCG all day every day, and MTGO Challenges (not for Standard, Standard is dead now on MTGO) so...whatever.
In the hypothetical situation the 'new' prison deck turns into a menace, what would be most likely card to eat a ban down the line?
My guess is, in order of likelihood: Ancient Stirrings, Ensnaring Bridge, Mox Opal or mayb Whir of Invention (if this deck was to be surgically targeted).
I doubt that this will ever come to pass, I'm merely posing the question for fun.
Playing Limited and watching Limited are two very different things. Not only do many players find it boring to watch because they don't like Limited, even players who do sometimes have a hard time enjoying it because the drafting and building phases are so much more exciting and relevant than the actual gameplay. Combine this with the historically bad viewership numbers for every Limited event, and I'm not surprised in the least bit.
Big IF, since its not that good, but I would say if we hit some hypothetical where ANOTHER artifact deck breaks, Opal would finally eat it.
I think you're seriously underestimating the deck. I'd say that out of the currently 30-ish most played decks in modern it only has 3 bad matchups. Jeskai and UW primarily due to cryptic circumventing the welding jars/needles, and burn which is actually closer than expected.
It doesn't surprise me that many former kci players are turning to the deck as the next best mox opal deck, it's hard to master but has a very high ceiling.
Can we just get rid of Limited? Do we really need both Limited and Standard to sell packs?
Limited is much more enjoyable for me than any constructed format, without it 99% of the printed cards would be completely useless since they wouldn't see play in any format at all. I reckon it actually sells more packs than standard since most players just buy singles when they intend on building a constructed deck rather than cracking packs hoping to get lucky.
Well that is good for you but if this is the coverage we get then lets par down the schedule on focus on formats that bring in the bacon. Standard has to be there to sell packs and Modern should be there causes it popular. Unless Arena Modern kills it.
Limited is much more enjoyable for me than any constructed format, without it 99% of the printed cards would be completely useless since they wouldn't see play in any format at all. I reckon it actually sells more packs than standard since most players just buy singles when they intend on building a constructed deck rather than cracking packs hoping to get lucky.
To build a constructed deck you need 4x of the core cards, if 3 or 4 rares are in particularly high demand then stores crack packs to sell the singles to those wanting to build the standard/modern deck. If you are talking about selling packs to players, then yes, draft sells more packs, but the only place those singles come from is packs, so the singles buyers actually support the opening of more packs than the draft players.
The sad fact is, ditching limited wouldn't mean Wizards prints or reprints more constructed viable cards, there would still be piles of chaff, good for EDH...
Big IF, since its not that good, but I would say if we hit some hypothetical where ANOTHER artifact deck breaks, Opal would finally eat it.
I think you're seriously underestimating the deck. I'd say that out of the currently 30-ish most played decks in modern it only has 3 bad matchups. Jeskai and UW primarily due to cryptic circumventing the welding jars/needles, and burn which is actually closer than expected.
It doesn't surprise me that many former kci players are turning to the deck as the next best mox opal deck, it's hard to master but has a very high ceiling.
from what ive seen of the deck its worst matchup is itself. not as bad as something like boggles or grishoalbrand, but its draws are polarized enough that the average suffers for it.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
Sorry, I feel Kci was such a bad decision if they even say opal was on the watch list. So why don't they ban card of their own watch list instead killing the deck completely and letting risk cards again in?
Sorry, I feel Kci was such a bad decision if they even say opal was on the watch list. So why don't they ban card of their own watch list instead killing the deck completely and letting risk cards again in?
they explained it pretty well, I'd suggest giving their article another read. They even spoke on why cards like opal are fine, healthy additions to the format but don't always get a completely free pass.
Opal, for instance, isn't singly responsible for making KCI too good, or even for the infuriating rules interactions which plagued the deck. It's just an accelerator, and also exists in many other decks as a core part of their strategies. To remove Opal would fail to hit the issues present in KCI and would destroy other, completely reasonable decks. that would be a bad move.
it's a nice article, i'd recommend the second look if you're wondering why they made the choices they did.
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
Sorry, I feel Kci was such a bad decision if they even say opal was on the watch list. So why don't they ban card of their own watch list instead killing the deck completely and letting risk cards again in?
banning opal would weaken a lot of decks that are doing just fine.
banning KCI removed the single deck that WoTC considers to be not healthy for the format.
Big IF, since its not that good, but I would say if we hit some hypothetical where ANOTHER artifact deck breaks, Opal would finally eat it.
I think you're seriously underestimating the deck. I'd say that out of the currently 30-ish most played decks in modern it only has 3 bad matchups. Jeskai and UW primarily due to cryptic circumventing the welding jars/needles, and burn which is actually closer than expected.
It doesn't surprise me that many former kci players are turning to the deck as the next best mox opal deck, it's hard to master but has a very high ceiling.
from what ive seen of the deck its worst matchup is itself. not as bad as something like boggles or grishoalbrand, but its draws are polarized enough that the average suffers for it.
Not really. Bogles and Grishoalbrand are actually pretty bad against Whir Prison, IMO; they're just too flimsy and linear. The worst match up is by far BGx midrange. Abrupt Decay beats Chalice and Bridge (with no Jar, obviously), targeted discard is extremely effective against the deck before it gets an Academy Ruins online, and Goyf/Tasigur/Flayer/Ooze are fantastic threats against Whir Prison if they can't protect their Bridges, which they rarely can if they've been slowed enough. Grixis Death's Shadow is a close second, since they have the same discard as GBx but get countermagic to shut off your Whirs and kill you much faster. Tron is a pain in the neck too since they can topdeck Karn, Ostone, or Ugin to wipe your board. UW control is also great against Whir prison thanks to cards like Negate, Detention Sphere, and Stony Silence out of the sideboard.
I would say that Whir prison is well positioned against many of the decks that are currently popular (Izzet Phoenix and Dredge in particular) and it uses many of the same cards as the KCI decks.
Big IF, since its not that good, but I would say if we hit some hypothetical where ANOTHER artifact deck breaks, Opal would finally eat it.
I think you're seriously underestimating the deck. I'd say that out of the currently 30-ish most played decks in modern it only has 3 bad matchups. Jeskai and UW primarily due to cryptic circumventing the welding jars/needles, and burn which is actually closer than expected.
It doesn't surprise me that many former kci players are turning to the deck as the next best mox opal deck, it's hard to master but has a very high ceiling.
from what ive seen of the deck its worst matchup is itself. not as bad as something like boggles or grishoalbrand, but its draws are polarized enough that the average suffers for it.
Not really. Bogles and Grishoalbrand are actually pretty bad against Whir Prison, IMO; they're just too flimsy and linear. The worst match up is by far BGx midrange. Abrupt Decay beats Chalice and Bridge (with no Jar, obviously), targeted discard is extremely effective against the deck before it gets an Academy Ruins online, and Goyf/Tasigur/Flayer/Ooze are fantastic threats against Whir Prison if they can't protect their Bridges, which they rarely can if they've been slowed enough. Grixis Death's Shadow is a close second, since they have the same discard as GBx but get countermagic to shut off your Whirs and kill you much faster. Tron is a pain in the neck too since they can topdeck Karn, Ostone, or Ugin to wipe your board. UW control is also great against Whir prison thanks to cards like Negate, Detention Sphere, and Stony Silence out of the sideboard.
I would say that Whir prison is well positioned against many of the decks that are currently popular (Izzet Phoenix and Dredge in particular) and it uses many of the same cards as the KCI decks.
ah yeah, nothing to disagree with. im an idiot and for some reason i thought you guys were talking about hardened scales affinity. my reply was aimed at hardened scales seeming inconsistent much like bogles or grishoalbrand.
as for URx whir decks im not worried about them getting out of hand, decks like BGx, UW control, and tron can handle them fairly easily. even with a bunch of needle effects pushing through countermagic and the walkers threatening to ultimate is typically too much to handle, and tron just...does tron things. tron destroys lantern, and i dont see anything that would change that dichotomy in URx whir.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
Did anyone catch the live stream earlier today? Apparently there's a product announcement in February for fans of Modern?
skipped through the vid to see if i could find anything. near the start there was a fact or fiction piece and one of the proposed claims was that modern is being phased out. the answer was that it was fiction, and in lieu of specific information they hinted that modern players should stay tuned during the back half of February.
so not an official announcement of an announcement, and they didnt clarify if it would just be news a new product announcement or what. the masters product line 'ending' was brought up during/prior to them saying this, but i wouldnt read too much into their specific wording when they are obviously trying to be non-committal
Big IF, since its not that good, but I would say if we hit some hypothetical where ANOTHER artifact deck breaks, Opal would finally eat it.
I think you're seriously underestimating the deck. I'd say that out of the currently 30-ish most played decks in modern it only has 3 bad matchups. Jeskai and UW primarily due to cryptic circumventing the welding jars/needles, and burn which is actually closer than expected.
It doesn't surprise me that many former kci players are turning to the deck as the next best mox opal deck, it's hard to master but has a very high ceiling.
from what ive seen of the deck its worst matchup is itself. not as bad as something like boggles or grishoalbrand, but its draws are polarized enough that the average suffers for it.
Not really. Bogles and Grishoalbrand are actually pretty bad against Whir Prison, IMO; they're just too flimsy and linear. The worst match up is by far BGx midrange. Abrupt Decay beats Chalice and Bridge (with no Jar, obviously), targeted discard is extremely effective against the deck before it gets an Academy Ruins online, and Goyf/Tasigur/Flayer/Ooze are fantastic threats against Whir Prison if they can't protect their Bridges, which they rarely can if they've been slowed enough. Grixis Death's Shadow is a close second, since they have the same discard as GBx but get countermagic to shut off your Whirs and kill you much faster. Tron is a pain in the neck too since they can topdeck Karn, Ostone, or Ugin to wipe your board. UW control is also great against Whir prison thanks to cards like Negate, Detention Sphere, and Stony Silence out of the sideboard.
I would say that Whir prison is well positioned against many of the decks that are currently popular (Izzet Phoenix and Dredge in particular) and it uses many of the same cards as the KCI decks.
ah yeah, nothing to disagree with. im an idiot and for some reason i thought you guys were talking about hardened scales affinity. my reply was aimed at hardened scales seeming inconsistent much like bogles or grishoalbrand.
as for URx whir decks im not worried about them getting out of hand, decks like BGx, UW control, and tron can handle them fairly easily. even with a bunch of needle effects pushing through countermagic and the walkers threatening to ultimate is typically too much to handle, and tron just...does tron things. tron destroys lantern, and i dont see anything that would change that dichotomy in URx whir.
On paper Tron might look like a poor matchup but it ultimately has a really hard time fighting through Damping Sphere, the multiple Sorcerous Spyglass and the Tec Edge+Crucible lock. Lantern tries to lock the player out in a different manner, one which is much harder to achieve against Tron due to the sheer amount of relevant threats and Chromatic Sphere.
The same goes for BGx, with Whir serving as copies 5-8 of any needed artifact along with the 4 Ancient Stirrings the deck is redundant enough to consistently land a Bridge with one of the 4 Welding Jars through disruption. Then you only need to find a needle effect for Liliana and the game will eventually drag out until you´ve found enough Jar/Bridges that the few Decay effects won´t suffice. Post SB the 4 Spellskite make it even harder to get a Bridge off the table and Whir also brings in additional needle effects + Sai.
The deck is by no means easy to play and a big factor, at least in paper, is actually the clock. If you´re playing against someone who, either out of stubbornness or inexperience refuses to concede, then the games can often go to time since actually winning the game is a very tedious process, especially game 1.
I´ve played with and against Whir a good amount recently and I believe the deck is a serious contender to be the next best deck in modern. With KCI gone which was one of the worst matchups, and many KCI players gravitating towards picking the deck up themselves I reckon we´re going to see alot more of it in the near future.
Big IF, since its not that good, but I would say if we hit some hypothetical where ANOTHER artifact deck breaks, Opal would finally eat it.
see i disagree with this statement. The guy who made Whir prison consistently does well with the deck. He constantly 5-0's mtgo and i always see his name when he attends the SCG in his state. It is a very hard deck to pilot given that you literally sit there and do nothing. I would argue that KCI was the same way as only a couple pilots can really bring out the full potential.
Big IF, since its not that good, but I would say if we hit some hypothetical where ANOTHER artifact deck breaks, Opal would finally eat it.
see i disagree with this statement. The guy who made Whir prison consistently does well with the deck. He constantly 5-0's mtgo and i always see his name when he attends the SCG in his state. It is a very hard deck to pilot given that you literally sit there and do nothing. I would argue that KCI was the same way as only a couple pilots can really bring out the full potential.
I see it in the 5-0's and the classics, yet never the Open.
I'm sure its (yet another) fine competitive deck, but until he starts winning GP's and Opens with it. /shrug its just one of 50 other decks that can win a Classic.
Spirits
My guess is, in order of likelihood: Ancient Stirrings, Ensnaring Bridge, Mox Opal or mayb Whir of Invention (if this deck was to be surgically targeted).
I doubt that this will ever come to pass, I'm merely posing the question for fun.
Spirits
UBR Grixis Shadow UBR
UR Izzet Phoenix UR
UW UW Control UW
GB GB Rock GB
Commander
BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG
BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
UBR Grixis Shadow UBR
UR Izzet Phoenix UR
UW UW Control UW
GB GB Rock GB
Commander
BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG
BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
It doesn't surprise me that many former kci players are turning to the deck as the next best mox opal deck, it's hard to master but has a very high ceiling.
To build a constructed deck you need 4x of the core cards, if 3 or 4 rares are in particularly high demand then stores crack packs to sell the singles to those wanting to build the standard/modern deck. If you are talking about selling packs to players, then yes, draft sells more packs, but the only place those singles come from is packs, so the singles buyers actually support the opening of more packs than the draft players.
The sad fact is, ditching limited wouldn't mean Wizards prints or reprints more constructed viable cards, there would still be piles of chaff, good for EDH...
from what ive seen of the deck its worst matchup is itself. not as bad as something like boggles or grishoalbrand, but its draws are polarized enough that the average suffers for it.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)I think their explanations were pretty clear...
Modern:
they explained it pretty well, I'd suggest giving their article another read. They even spoke on why cards like opal are fine, healthy additions to the format but don't always get a completely free pass.
Opal, for instance, isn't singly responsible for making KCI too good, or even for the infuriating rules interactions which plagued the deck. It's just an accelerator, and also exists in many other decks as a core part of their strategies. To remove Opal would fail to hit the issues present in KCI and would destroy other, completely reasonable decks. that would be a bad move.
it's a nice article, i'd recommend the second look if you're wondering why they made the choices they did.
banning opal would weaken a lot of decks that are doing just fine.
banning KCI removed the single deck that WoTC considers to be not healthy for the format.
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Not really. Bogles and Grishoalbrand are actually pretty bad against Whir Prison, IMO; they're just too flimsy and linear. The worst match up is by far BGx midrange. Abrupt Decay beats Chalice and Bridge (with no Jar, obviously), targeted discard is extremely effective against the deck before it gets an Academy Ruins online, and Goyf/Tasigur/Flayer/Ooze are fantastic threats against Whir Prison if they can't protect their Bridges, which they rarely can if they've been slowed enough. Grixis Death's Shadow is a close second, since they have the same discard as GBx but get countermagic to shut off your Whirs and kill you much faster. Tron is a pain in the neck too since they can topdeck Karn, Ostone, or Ugin to wipe your board. UW control is also great against Whir prison thanks to cards like Negate, Detention Sphere, and Stony Silence out of the sideboard.
I would say that Whir prison is well positioned against many of the decks that are currently popular (Izzet Phoenix and Dredge in particular) and it uses many of the same cards as the KCI decks.
ah yeah, nothing to disagree with. im an idiot and for some reason i thought you guys were talking about hardened scales affinity. my reply was aimed at hardened scales seeming inconsistent much like bogles or grishoalbrand.
as for URx whir decks im not worried about them getting out of hand, decks like BGx, UW control, and tron can handle them fairly easily. even with a bunch of needle effects pushing through countermagic and the walkers threatening to ultimate is typically too much to handle, and tron just...does tron things. tron destroys lantern, and i dont see anything that would change that dichotomy in URx whir.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)skipped through the vid to see if i could find anything. near the start there was a fact or fiction piece and one of the proposed claims was that modern is being phased out. the answer was that it was fiction, and in lieu of specific information they hinted that modern players should stay tuned during the back half of February.
so not an official announcement of an announcement, and they didnt clarify if it would just be news a new product announcement or what. the masters product line 'ending' was brought up during/prior to them saying this, but i wouldnt read too much into their specific wording when they are obviously trying to be non-committal
source: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/373063163?t=07m50s
havent watched it all the way through so there might be something else in another portion.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)The same goes for BGx, with Whir serving as copies 5-8 of any needed artifact along with the 4 Ancient Stirrings the deck is redundant enough to consistently land a Bridge with one of the 4 Welding Jars through disruption. Then you only need to find a needle effect for Liliana and the game will eventually drag out until you´ve found enough Jar/Bridges that the few Decay effects won´t suffice. Post SB the 4 Spellskite make it even harder to get a Bridge off the table and Whir also brings in additional needle effects + Sai.
The deck is by no means easy to play and a big factor, at least in paper, is actually the clock. If you´re playing against someone who, either out of stubbornness or inexperience refuses to concede, then the games can often go to time since actually winning the game is a very tedious process, especially game 1.
I´ve played with and against Whir a good amount recently and I believe the deck is a serious contender to be the next best deck in modern. With KCI gone which was one of the worst matchups, and many KCI players gravitating towards picking the deck up themselves I reckon we´re going to see alot more of it in the near future.
see i disagree with this statement. The guy who made Whir prison consistently does well with the deck. He constantly 5-0's mtgo and i always see his name when he attends the SCG in his state. It is a very hard deck to pilot given that you literally sit there and do nothing. I would argue that KCI was the same way as only a couple pilots can really bring out the full potential.
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/player/Michael Coyle
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/player/susurrus_mtg
Tooth & Nail........Grishoalbrand....Living Dominance....Tezzerator.........Vannifar Pod
My Decks that have been BANNED
DRS Jund | Kiki-Pod | Bloom Titan | Splinter Twin | KCI
I see it in the 5-0's and the classics, yet never the Open.
I'm sure its (yet another) fine competitive deck, but until he starts winning GP's and Opens with it. /shrug its just one of 50 other decks that can win a Classic.
Spirits
Tooth & Nail........Grishoalbrand....Living Dominance....Tezzerator.........Vannifar Pod
My Decks that have been BANNED
DRS Jund | Kiki-Pod | Bloom Titan | Splinter Twin | KCI