UW beats Hogaak on the back on Monastery Mentor. Love it.
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I can't say I'm pleased to see you and must warn you I may have to do something about it.
EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: URDelver
Modern: UGRDelver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
Hogaak looks like another powerful teir 1 deck to me, but not teir zero. A ban looks unlikely to me right now based on the time it has been legal and this week ends results, UNLESS they decide to use the same logic they used for GGT. (I.E. battle of side board hate cards, competitive deck diversity or overly format warping, something like that.) I predict no changes this announcement but we'll see.
Yep, I think I saw hogaak loses to UW control off of monastery mentor twice toward then end. One before top 8, one in the final. That card was just waiting in the wings. UW control is all non-creature-based, so mentor just is great tech.
That being said, I didn't undersatand why the hogaak player in the final game didn't play his wispmare the turn before. That would have been one damage less that turn and another chump the next. Not that it did matter in the end since the UW player had celestial purge. It seems that final was won off that one card (purge).
I mean, while its true Hoogak didn't have extreme numbers dont forget people were outrageously prepared for it. We're talking like 7-9 hate pieces in a bunch of decks, this by no means reliquenishes Hoogak being problematic.
Yeah, my takeaway was that it still managed to put 2 copies in the top 8 when people were warping their 75s to beat it. It had a target on its back unlike any deck I can think of since the Eye of Ugin ban, and still put 2 copies in the top 8. Deck's great, not totally solved yet, and has huge margins for error. I mean, this is a deck that can win from nowhere from an empty board. That's nuts.
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I can't say I'm pleased to see you and must warn you I may have to do something about it.
EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: URDelver
Modern: UGRDelver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
I mean, while its true Hoogak didn't have extreme numbers dont forget people were outrageously prepared for it. We're talking like 7-9 hate pieces in a bunch of decks, this by no means reliquenishes Hoogak being problematic.
The winning list had 2 Surgical main, and 4 Rip, I believe that's it.
Maybe I've just been watching Chernobyl too much (whole miniseries 3 times now...), but I have a feeling like Wizards is telling us with a straight face that we didn't see graphite on the ground when it comes to Modern and its health.
If Hogaak is fine then 90% of the cards on the banlist need to come off tomorrow. They're a joke compared to the format. GSZ, SFM, Twin, Artifact lands, Pod, Dread Return (lol), Cloudpost, DRS, GGT (lol), Preordain, Punishing Fire, Jitte, etc. Modern is what legacy would look like without safety valves.
I'm kind of over arguing about bans. Wizards does whatever they'll do and nothing I can do or say will make much difference. I'm going to focus on playing the format in front of me. And for now, that means maindeck Surgical with Traps in the board.
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I can't say I'm pleased to see you and must warn you I may have to do something about it.
EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: URDelver
Modern: UGRDelver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
Yeah, my takeaway was that it still managed to put 2 copies in the top 8 when people were warping their 75s to beat it. It had a target on its back unlike any deck I can think of since the Eye of Ugin ban, and still put 2 copies in the top 8. Deck's great, not totally solved yet, and has huge margins for error. I mean, this is a deck that can win from nowhere from an empty board. That's nuts.
I agree. This is how I see it.
Everyone prepared to go and try to beat Hogaak and it still got 2 copies in the top 8 and had great numbers. It may not be overwhelmingly winning, but warping sideboards and metagames is enough to get stuff banned, right?
I mean, if we can agree that the Turn 4 rule no longer exists, then sure, Modern is fine.
I know your opinion on Hogaak is not the majority here, but I do also think that something does need to get banned. I know I have not played it enough, but it seems to turn 3 pretty consistently without disruption. And often, disruption is not enough.
I actually kind of want to run some other decks, both for fun and also because I think that Humans is a good metagame choice right now. I am jamming as much Hogaak I can until Wizards tells me that I can't anymore.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
I was at the GP this weekend piloting E Tron. While my wheels fell off I did play against Hoogak 2x and went 1-1 against it. I did have 7 hate cards for it via:
Both matches were 2-0, and 0-2. When I drew my hate I did well, (One Hoogak player was on 4 Wear/Tear to get around Chalice, it worked) when I didn't I lost within 6 minutes. So, we did prepapre for Hoogak, everyone did. It did manage to beat a lot of the hate regardless of how prepared players were.
Fact: After hoogak pilots finished their runs with the deck, almost all of them sold the deck back to vendors, with Bridges being taken in for 5 a piece. No one wants to hold on to the deck as the consensus was that it must eat a ban. The very pilots said the same thing, of course I did meet the 1 hoogak player that said there was too much hate (lol), I mean, sure T2 Chalice on 1 helps and in my G2 I had T0 Leyline into T2 chalice on 1. That's the dream but you don't always draw like that. I went 5-3 in the main event and 4-2 in the mcq. There was a lot of hoogak at the top and a lot of decks aiming to beat it. The next evolution is the playset of 4 Wear/Tear.
What beat Hoogak? UW Control, E Tron, Whir Prison (teammate), Mono red, Dev Druid, and humans seemed close. Jund apparently has a decent to good match up. Everything else...well...
I'm kind of over arguing about bans. Wizards does whatever they'll do and nothing I can do or say will make much difference. I'm going to focus on playing the format in front of me. And for now, that means maindeck Surgical with Traps in the board.
I've 100% come to the same conclusion. We are not as a thread, as a forum, as a format community, ever going to come to a consensus on something, and Wizard's is never going to listen to the few of us that 'know' we are right.
So either adapt, or give up. That's literally it. Honest to god though, I would rather watch Hogaak, than Phoenix, or Dredge, some of the new versions of Jund look spicy as hell. UW is actually viable, Burn and Mono R Phoenix are competitive, the Urza deck as the current form of Whir/Thopter looks legit, Infect coming back as Bant now, the final of the Classic as Burn (winner) vs Esper Control.
Between War/Horizons/2020, the format is as 'shaken up' as we can likely expect for..years.
Yep, it looks like Urza, Lord High Artificer is starting to go up a bit after SCG Brian Coval's deck tech and Justin Porchas (a player local to me) top 8ing the Dallas Magic Fest.
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Yep, it looks like Urza, Lord High Artificer is starting to go up a bit after SCG Brian Coval's deck tech and Justin Porches (a player local to me) top 8ing the Dallas Magic Fest.
Honestly, I would be extremely disappointed if a card with Urza didn't kick ass in multiple formats. I mean it's Urza!!
Yep, it looks like Urza, Lord High Artificer is starting to go up a bit after SCG Brian Coval's deck tech and Justin Porches (a player local to me) top 8ing the Dallas Magic Fest.
Who would have thought turning a bunch of hate cards, mana rocks, and combo pieces into Mox Sapphires would be good?
yeah i think people are quick to write off the new urza decks and focus on bridgevine because of that period when grixis whir rose up for a bit not too long ago. its natural to think 'oh yeah its because chalice and ensnaring bridge are good right now', when they dont realize urza is facilitating relatively fast combo shennanigans. basically new angles of attack whir prison never had access to.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
- Izzet Phoenix is good
- Mono Red Phoenix is good
- Urza’s Prison is good
- Bridgevine is good
- Human is the usual beast
- UW Control has game against everyone
- Eldrazi Tron and Creature Toolbox are on the resurgence
We have, more or less, every strategy covered. Can someone explain to me how playing in this environment isn’t fine?
- Izzet Phoenix is good
- Mono Red Phoenix is good
- Urza’s Prison is good
- Bridgevine is good
- Human is the usual beast
- UW Control has game against everyone
- Eldrazi Tron and Creature Toolbox are on the resurgence
We have, more or less, every strategy covered. Can someone explain to me how playing in this environment isn’t fine?
You'll have to forgive me, as my post history would probably show that I came to this realization late.
Objectively? Nothing is wrong with Modern right now. Even Jund appears to have found some upgrades, and if your objective is to play X type of deck, there is one for nearly everyone.
What I feel is the basis of most arguments right now, even if its not explicitly stated is that SUBJECTIVELY, people do not like the decks that make up much of Modern. People will wrap it up as if there is something wrong with the format, I myself was guilty of this, because we find the decks distasteful, but thats not a flaw, thats perception.
Surgical is our FoW, there is nothing wrong with that.
For what it's worth, I took UW to FNM last week. Died on Turn 3 (while on the draw) to Breach Titan, then got Chalice'd for 1 turn 1 game 2 with Surgical, Field, and 2x Path in hand. Then I lost to regular old Galvanic Blast Affinity on turn 3, twice (game 1 and 3, each I was on the draw. Game 3 I had turn 2 Stony Silence).
The speed and ferocity of the format is not simply limited to Phoenix and Hogaak. It leads to miserable experiences with all sorts of decks!
EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: UR Delver
Modern: UGR Delver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
I can't wait to see people use this to justify why Hogaak shouldn't be banned.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
That being said, I didn't undersatand why the hogaak player in the final game didn't play his wispmare the turn before. That would have been one damage less that turn and another chump the next. Not that it did matter in the end since the UW player had celestial purge. It seems that final was won off that one card (purge).
PS: let's not forget timely reinforcements. That card is key in UW SB.
It shouldn't
I already did! Lol.
It cannot be banned until it does something.
Edit: let's not forget pros thought original bridgevine was worth playing at the pro tour, and then did nothing.
Modern Classic posted (I'm on my phone can't copy) and it's cool too.
Bring back jund!
Spirits
EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: UR Delver
Modern: UGR Delver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
The winning list had 2 Surgical main, and 4 Rip, I believe that's it.
Spirits
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Reality is but a perception of your being --
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881
Oooh Dicey:
[dice=1]100[/dice]
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: UR Delver
Modern: UGR Delver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
I agree. This is how I see it.
Everyone prepared to go and try to beat Hogaak and it still got 2 copies in the top 8 and had great numbers. It may not be overwhelmingly winning, but warping sideboards and metagames is enough to get stuff banned, right?
I know your opinion on Hogaak is not the majority here, but I do also think that something does need to get banned. I know I have not played it enough, but it seems to turn 3 pretty consistently without disruption. And often, disruption is not enough.
I actually kind of want to run some other decks, both for fun and also because I think that Humans is a good metagame choice right now. I am jamming as much Hogaak I can until Wizards tells me that I can't anymore.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)4 Leyline of the Void
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Grafdigger's Cage
4 Main deck Chalice of the Void
Both matches were 2-0, and 0-2. When I drew my hate I did well, (One Hoogak player was on 4 Wear/Tear to get around Chalice, it worked) when I didn't I lost within 6 minutes. So, we did prepapre for Hoogak, everyone did. It did manage to beat a lot of the hate regardless of how prepared players were.
Fact: After hoogak pilots finished their runs with the deck, almost all of them sold the deck back to vendors, with Bridges being taken in for 5 a piece. No one wants to hold on to the deck as the consensus was that it must eat a ban. The very pilots said the same thing, of course I did meet the 1 hoogak player that said there was too much hate (lol), I mean, sure T2 Chalice on 1 helps and in my G2 I had T0 Leyline into T2 chalice on 1. That's the dream but you don't always draw like that. I went 5-3 in the main event and 4-2 in the mcq. There was a lot of hoogak at the top and a lot of decks aiming to beat it. The next evolution is the playset of 4 Wear/Tear.
What beat Hoogak? UW Control, E Tron, Whir Prison (teammate), Mono red, Dev Druid, and humans seemed close. Jund apparently has a decent to good match up. Everything else...well...
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now:
G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record)
C Eldrazi Tron (9-5)
UG Infect
RW Burn
I've 100% come to the same conclusion. We are not as a thread, as a forum, as a format community, ever going to come to a consensus on something, and Wizard's is never going to listen to the few of us that 'know' we are right.
So either adapt, or give up. That's literally it. Honest to god though, I would rather watch Hogaak, than Phoenix, or Dredge, some of the new versions of Jund look spicy as hell. UW is actually viable, Burn and Mono R Phoenix are competitive, the Urza deck as the current form of Whir/Thopter looks legit, Infect coming back as Bant now, the final of the Classic as Burn (winner) vs Esper Control.
Between War/Horizons/2020, the format is as 'shaken up' as we can likely expect for..years.
Spirits
Yep, it looks like Urza, Lord High Artificer is starting to go up a bit after SCG Brian Coval's deck tech and Justin Porchas (a player local to me) top 8ing the Dallas Magic Fest.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Honestly, I would be extremely disappointed if a card with Urza didn't kick ass in multiple formats. I mean it's Urza!!
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)- Izzet Phoenix is good
- Mono Red Phoenix is good
- Urza’s Prison is good
- Bridgevine is good
- Human is the usual beast
- UW Control has game against everyone
- Eldrazi Tron and Creature Toolbox are on the resurgence
We have, more or less, every strategy covered. Can someone explain to me how playing in this environment isn’t fine?
You'll have to forgive me, as my post history would probably show that I came to this realization late.
Objectively? Nothing is wrong with Modern right now. Even Jund appears to have found some upgrades, and if your objective is to play X type of deck, there is one for nearly everyone.
What I feel is the basis of most arguments right now, even if its not explicitly stated is that SUBJECTIVELY, people do not like the decks that make up much of Modern. People will wrap it up as if there is something wrong with the format, I myself was guilty of this, because we find the decks distasteful, but thats not a flaw, thats perception.
Surgical is our FoW, there is nothing wrong with that.
Spirits
For what it's worth, I took UW to FNM last week. Died on Turn 3 (while on the draw) to Breach Titan, then got Chalice'd for 1 turn 1 game 2 with Surgical, Field, and 2x Path in hand. Then I lost to regular old Galvanic Blast Affinity on turn 3, twice (game 1 and 3, each I was on the draw. Game 3 I had turn 2 Stony Silence).
The speed and ferocity of the format is not simply limited to Phoenix and Hogaak. It leads to miserable experiences with all sorts of decks!
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate