You'd think that the same people who allegedly monitor format health would have an expert understanding of the modern infrastructure and which existing cards would be most efficacious when it comes to filling in gaps, balancing the color pie, bolstering lower tier archetypes, etc were they ever reprinted into modern. Instead of utilizing those existing cards, which have concrete data, and opting to make MH a majority compilation of brand new unknown variables is a sign of either ignorance or ineptitude, in my eyes. I won't damn the set until everything is laid out on the table, but I'm going to have some serious trust issues come June 14 if all we have is a set with sweet EDH toys and one solid land cycle.
I have literally been saying this for years, and constantly mocked for it. But time and time again, they show that their understanding of the format is embarrassingly thin and almost entirely dictated by spreadsheets and data sets of names. There is no deep and fundamental understanding of the actual format meta or how the decks interact with each other, outside of the absolute most basic, surface level observations. Is this set what it finally takes for others to see that?
It's very easy for players to criticize Wizards' understanding of the format if we focus on misses without context. I prefer to look at the big picture since 2016. The most telling example of this is banlist management. Every few months since Eldrazi Winter, vocal subsets of the player community have clamored for bans. Pros have joined in (LSV and GDS is an infamous example). SCG casters regularly talk about bans and format health at every single event. I stopped counting the number of times authors tangentially mention bans in articles or Tweets, and I have seen literally dozens of ban suggestions made by players, authors, commentators, pros, observers, and other community members. These have included Tron lands, Mox Opal, GDS, Cavern, E-Temple, Company, SSG, Teferi, Baral, Manamorphose, Moon, Bridge, Hierarch, Stirrings, Looting, Inquiry, and many more. It's a widely established meme at this point. But throughout all of this, Wizards has ignored most outcry and only banned three cards: Probe (a card so broken it is banned in every non-Standard format), GGT (a surgical nerf to a still viable, top-tier deck), and KCI (a demonstrably broken deck by objective, predictable measures).
I argue this conservatism is because Wizards has a much deeper and broader understanding of format dynamics than most players who get caught up in the day to day grinding and comment mill. Wizards understands that barring extreme situations, the format arcs towards diversity and two dozen viable decks of all archetypes and colors. Bans aren't necessary. Targeted shakeups aren't necessary. Basically every new Standard set has trickled format-defining cards into Modern and Wizards knows this will continue to happen. Wizards also understands that this broad viability is central to Modern's widespread appeal, even if individual players from enfranchised, knowledgeable, and experienced cohorts disagree or dislike the format. Not all players will like this. Notably, players who prefer the powerful cantrips and countermagic of Legacy will probably not like this and will describe this format as high variance and low skill, even though I have disproven this claim more times than I can count with analyses of player/pro MWPs across formats.
Unfortunately, because Wizards does not support Legacy to the same extent as Modern, all players who prefer non-rotating formats generally are funneled into Modern specifically. This means that players who would probably prefer a Legacy environment can't really enjoy it. Standard and EDH players don't have this issue; they can just stick with the formats they want to play, especially with Arena offering such a great Standard experience. But because Modern is a top-down response to the problems of the Reserve List, it is the de facto nonrotating format of Magic and that will never appeal to all the players who could theoretically enjoy nonrotating Magic. This means there will always be critics, especially vocal, enfranchised, and experienced players who want a defined metagame, a 50/50+ deck, a specific type of strong interaction/selection, etc. Wizards just understands they can't please everyone and instead chooses to promote a format where two dozen decks can T8 a GP, and they understand this is possible with hands-off management.
Honestly what makes it disgraceful is that it aint hard for WOTC if they care about this stuff to sign up to some Forums like this, Cruise multiple Reddit for Magic and sit in Discords. This isn't the 90s or early 00s. If they actually cared it wouldnt be that hard to do a decent job. If they wanted to do some research and find out what people think about various decks it be easy. But I honestly don't think they care and wanna fix things.
Again, these kinds of criticisms are likely not grounded in reality. Wizards has visible representatives on Reddit and Twitter. They repost articles on the mothership from dozens of websites. A prominent R&D member is a mod alum of this website. It is implausible that they do not know about the feedback. They simply did not process the feedback how you and others might have preferred. It's frustratingly common to see people, both online and in person, criticizing large organizations for decisions with thousands of moving parts. They are obviously listening and engaging the community. It takes just a cursory look at even the last B&R announcement, where they explicitly mentioned Modern concerns, to realize this.
I find your defense abstract would you like to actually defend specific points. For instance, their justification for no counterspell in their own stream? This criticism isn't coming out of a vacuum. I mean I don't think you actually personally believe counterspell is too good for Modern so I be surprised if you want to die on this hill.
I find your defense abstract would you like to actually defend specific points. For instance, their justification for no counterspell in their own stream? This criticism isn't coming out of a vacuum. I mean I don't think you actually personally believe counterspell is too good for Modern so I be surprised if you want to die on this hill.
Counterspell is totally fine in Modern. Wizards' omission of Counterspell from MH does not mean it isn't appropriate in Modern. It also does not mean Wizards isn't listening to player feedback. I did not reply to a post you made about Counterspell. I replied to a post you made in which you expressed your beliefs that "I honestly don't think they care and wanna fix things", "If they actually cared it wouldnt be that hard to do a decent job," and other suggestions about a perception of Wizards' incompetence.
I have no issue with people criticizing the specific exclusion of a card from the set. It's a narrow criticism, but it's understandable as long as you are in dialogue with Wizards' actual cited reasons for doing so. I have a big issue with the wild extrapolation of "It sucks that Counterspell isn't in MH" to "Wizards doesn't listen to feedback, doesn't care, doesn't want to fix things, and is willfully or negligently doing a bad job." Those kinds of allegations have a very high bar and are simply not supportable given how much visible outreach (to say nothing of the invisible outreach) they do.
You'd think that the same people who allegedly monitor format health would have an expert understanding of the modern infrastructure and which existing cards would be most efficacious when it comes to filling in gaps, balancing the color pie, bolstering lower tier archetypes, etc were they ever reprinted into modern. Instead of utilizing those existing cards, which have concrete data, and opting to make MH a majority compilation of brand new unknown variables is a sign of either ignorance or ineptitude, in my eyes. I won't damn the set until everything is laid out on the table, but I'm going to have some serious trust issues come June 14 if all we have is a set with sweet EDH toys and one solid land cycle.
I have literally been saying this for years, and constantly mocked for it. But time and time again, they show that their understanding of the format is embarrassingly thin and almost entirely dictated by spreadsheets and data sets of names. There is no deep and fundamental understanding of the actual format meta or how the decks interact with each other, outside of the absolute most basic, surface level observations. Is this set what it finally takes for others to see that?
It's very easy for players to criticize Wizards' understanding of the format if we focus on misses without context. I prefer to look at the big picture since 2016. The most telling example of this is banlist management. Every few months since Eldrazi Winter, vocal subsets of the player community have clamored for bans. Pros have joined in (LSV and GDS is an infamous example). SCG casters regularly talk about bans and format health at every single event. I stopped counting the number of times authors tangentially mention bans in articles or Tweets, and I have seen literally dozens of ban suggestions made by players, authors, commentators, pros, observers, and other community members. These have included Tron lands, Mox Opal, GDS, Cavern, E-Temple, Company, SSG, Teferi, Baral, Manamorphose, Moon, Bridge, Hierarch, Stirrings, Looting, Inquiry, and many more. It's a widely established meme at this point. But throughout all of this, Wizards has ignored most outcry and only banned three cards: Probe (a card so broken it is banned in every non-Standard format), GGT (a surgical nerf to a still viable, top-tier deck), and KCI (a demonstrably broken deck by objective, predictable measures).
I argue this conservatism is because Wizards has a much deeper and broader understanding of format dynamics than most players who get caught up in the day to day grinding and comment mill. Wizards understands that barring extreme situations, the format arcs towards diversity and two dozen viable decks of all archetypes and colors. Bans aren't necessary. Targeted shakeups aren't necessary. Basically every new Standard set has trickled format-defining cards into Modern and Wizards knows this will continue to happen. Wizards also understands that this broad viability is central to Modern's widespread appeal, even if individual players from enfranchised, knowledgeable, and experienced cohorts disagree or dislike the format. Not all players will like this. Notably, players who prefer the powerful cantrips and countermagic of Legacy will probably not like this and will describe this format as high variance and low skill, even though I have disproven this claim more times than I can count with analyses of player/pro MWPs across formats.
Unfortunately, because Wizards does not support Legacy to the same extent as Modern, all players who prefer non-rotating formats generally are funneled into Modern specifically. This means that players who would probably prefer a Legacy environment can't really enjoy it. Standard and EDH players don't have this issue; they can just stick with the formats they want to play, especially with Arena offering such a great Standard experience. But because Modern is a top-down response to the problems of the Reserve List, it is the de facto nonrotating format of Magic and that will never appeal to all the players who could theoretically enjoy nonrotating Magic. This means there will always be critics, especially vocal, enfranchised, and experienced players who want a defined metagame, a 50/50+ deck, a specific type of strong interaction/selection, etc. Wizards just understands they can't please everyone and instead chooses to promote a format where two dozen decks can T8 a GP, and they understand this is possible with hands-off management.
Honestly what makes it disgraceful is that it aint hard for WOTC if they care about this stuff to sign up to some Forums like this, Cruise multiple Reddit for Magic and sit in Discords. This isn't the 90s or early 00s. If they actually cared it wouldnt be that hard to do a decent job. If they wanted to do some research and find out what people think about various decks it be easy. But I honestly don't think they care and wanna fix things.
Again, these kinds of criticisms are likely not grounded in reality. Wizards has visible representatives on Reddit and Twitter. They repost articles on the mothership from dozens of websites. A prominent R&D member is a mod alum of this website. It is implausible that they do not know about the feedback. They simply did not process the feedback how you and others might have preferred. It's frustratingly common to see people, both online and in person, criticizing large organizations for decisions with thousands of moving parts. They are obviously listening and engaging the community. It takes just a cursory look at even the last B&R announcement, where they explicitly mentioned Modern concerns, to realize this.
This is a good post, and in the three years I've been playing Modern I think they have managed the ban list very well.
I'm not sure what they expected MH to do to the meta, but it is looking a little like Sideboard/Commander masters at the moment. Still, there's plenty more to come yet.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern: UR Gifts Storm URB Grixis Death's Shadow R12 Bolt
Pauper: UR Puzzle Pieces
EDH: UB Phenax, God of Deception UR The Locust God UR Saheeli the Gifted WBG Anafenza, the Foremost
You'd think that the same people who allegedly monitor format health would have an expert understanding of the modern infrastructure and which existing cards would be most efficacious when it comes to filling in gaps, balancing the color pie, bolstering lower tier archetypes, etc were they ever reprinted into modern. Instead of utilizing those existing cards, which have concrete data, and opting to make MH a majority compilation of brand new unknown variables is a sign of either ignorance or ineptitude, in my eyes. I won't damn the set until everything is laid out on the table, but I'm going to have some serious trust issues come June 14 if all we have is a set with sweet EDH toys and one solid land cycle.
I have literally been saying this for years, and constantly mocked for it. But time and time again, they show that their understanding of the format is embarrassingly thin and almost entirely dictated by spreadsheets and data sets of names. There is no deep and fundamental understanding of the actual format meta or how the decks interact with each other, outside of the absolute most basic, surface level observations. Is this set what it finally takes for others to see that?
It's very easy for players to criticize Wizards' understanding of the format if we focus on misses without context. I prefer to look at the big picture since 2016.
I wholeheartedly agree, which is why it's taken me this long to seriously wonder if wotc knows just what the hell they're doing when it comes to Modern. I haven't been happy with every decision they've made regarding the format over the years and I've criticized them when I felt it was warranted, but in the end I always assumed there were people onboard who likely know infinitely more about the format than I keeping tabs and monitoring the overall state of modern. The majority of aforementioned decisions pertain to the B&R list. I've deferred back to the "too powerful for Standard" rhetoric whenever I'm frustrated about the format lacking certain answer cards or color representation.
Despite having an overall unfavorable opinion of wotc/R&D the last 10 years, I was excited when MH was announced, because I assumed they would finally be able to improve the format through direct intervention now that the red tape and excuses were gone. Maybe we'll get some rock solid reprints in the second half and the set ends up being a great thing for Modern. However, if all we get in the end are some lands, slivers, and ******* bear tribal then that'll be straw that breaks the camel's back and I'll no longer be able to suspend my disbelief. The thing is they didn't have to make a direct to Modern set. Hell, even if they did they didn't have to put 'Modern' in the name and market it to the players of that format. But they did. And if EDH fodder along with a handful of immediately-relevant lands & cheeky tribal bull***** is what they think Modern NEEDS, I think those people need to be fired yesterday. I can see investor-related concerns contributing to a mindset of hedging bets by including a few EDH goodies, but you still need to deliver on the set's namesake. Frankly speaking, missing the mark by a mile is flat out embarrassing for a set that was hyped and promoted as something "powerful" that would shake up the format.
Regardless, after each day of spoilers its becoming more clear just how much time was spent on MH compared to recent standard sets. I know standard is the bread and butter, especially now with Arena taking off, but Modern is exponentially more complex due to the sheer amount of possibilities and it just feels like instead of taking the time to dig deep and design a set aimed at balancing out the meta, color pies, certain strats, etc they thought they'd be able to get away with skipping the time commitment by including cute nods to older cards and other surface level bull*****. It's like when you were a kid at christmas and your Grandma knew you loved playing games on your gameboy, so she went and got you Roller Coaster Tycoon for PC. It seems like there's mutual understanding on the surface, but that's the extent of it.
I know we're only 90 cards deep, but holy balls, the distinct lack of any playable answers outside the green force for artifact decks (in the SB) is a joke. No, prohibit/exclude is not modern playable. FoN is SB material at best (There are way too many creature decks to MB such a narrow card in this format...I know, the amount of games I've lost because I'm holding negate/countersquall is ludicrous), Firebolt is interesting in a deck like Phoenix, but it's not really playable as a catch-all answer. Where's Deed, Vindicate, Swords, Abrupt Decay/Assassin's Trophy, (RIP Counterspell), cheap red removal to deal with X/5's, Containment Priest/GY hate, Tribal hate (E-Plague, etc.), Port, more non-basic hate, etc. There's nothing.
There is however, a ***** load of non-sense tribal/EDH cards and very low power level callbacks (bad bad preordain, 5 mana ponder, did we really need a white beast within?, etc.). The marketing of this set has been atrocious.
Feels like the format is rewarding the linear decks even more with this set (the Canopy lands tend to be much better in decks like burn, bogles, etc., than mid-range/control decks), really good infect card, tribal aggro, etc.
I'm really tired of WoTC designing premium sets primarily for limited. Most people aren't going to regularly draft your 7$+ booster set. Burns my britches. /rantover
I'm somewhere in the middle of all this, and kind of ambivalent at the moment. The card previews have been awesome to my Timmy side, even though I'm never going to build Bear EDH or Changeling.dec the cards tickle my fancy. The throwback cards are awesome from an aesthetic POV, but most of them aren't very playable.
The spike side of me is on board with some of the other commenters here, thinking that this is NOT the set that we were advertised/expected from the hype build-up. Sure, there will definitely be some cards that make a splash, but a lot less than I was hoping for.
However, all that being said, I've seen a few comments that also resonate with me: if this set was a slam dunk and had a ton of must-have cards, what do you think the price point would be for those? Urza preorders are at $80 a pop! Sure, that will drop, sure the print run is supposedly demand-based, but still, I'm not sure how much I like the thought of new format staples being a buy-them-now-or-cry-later. Most casual spikes like myself aren't going to buy 4x of the chase rares/mythics in anticipation that in 6 months I'm going to want to switch decks to use those cards. Right now, I hvae about 4-5 playsets of cards that I'm going to try to pick up, and that will probably be over my budget as is. If this whole set was killer, I'd be crying a lot harder.
And Sheldon, nice replies, I'm always impressed with your level-headedness when basically repeating the same stances ad nauseum. I don't necessarily agree with your stances, but kudos to always being cool and calm.
All that being said, give me back ******* twin!!!! It's the only deck I've ever loved enough to never want to play anything else. RIP counterspell.
EDIT: and for the haters, since I've been working on a personal level about being more self-aware, Yes, it's probably because I'm a bad magic player and twin had a built-in number of free "Oops, I win" moments. Sue me, it was still a blast to play
Compared to a baller ass set that gets opened a ton, a similar set with just a handful of in-demand cards will see its single prices spike higher and stay there longer. Aside from not wanting a good set b/c the cards would be expensive just being a ridiculous line of reasoning in itself, a popular/in-demand set gets opened more (especially when it's print to demand) which means more supply entering the market and less price gouging down the line. It took FIVE YEARS for the KTK fetches to finally start creeping up in price, b/c KTK was printed to demand and demand was bonkers. If the second half of MH turns out to be no better than the first, those Horizon lands will end up costing you much more than they would've if MH hype continued throughout spoiler season into release. It won't be as bad as Hour of Devastation getting its run cut early type situation, but $7/pack and a lukewarm response from the players its geared to certainly won't help when it comes to getting more singles out into the market.
I'd just like to voice my opinion that I am very disappointed that Counterspell will not be joining us. People at Wizards have, time and time again, stated that Counterspell is "too good" for Standard, so this was the first real opportunity to give us a card that helps level the playing field from non-interactive, linear decks and the reactive playstyles that have, in truth, been helped a lot by the additions of Teferi(s) and Jace, but still are left lacking a lot of the time because of a universal answer in the first few turns of the game.
If they honestly believe that Counterspell would have outshone the rest of the set, then I have a great deal of concern for the cards we haven't seen yet. Sure, Counterspell is big, and strong, and has a heavy amount of emotional baggage, but if as a designer of a set don't think you're capable of outshining Counterspell with the boatload of tools MH1 has (countless mechanics, ignoring New World Order, nostalgia out the wazoo) then maybe there should have been someone else in charge of that decision. Urza, for instance is a friggin bombshell of nostalgia and power which would have made as large a splash as Counterspell. FoN has generated a lot of dialog. Serra made most of the Vorthoses happy, and I think the Commander crowd has been overjoyed with Modern Commander Horizons. We have the return of Sliver after 5 years. We have presumably the remaining Swords in the Sword of X and Y cycle. Canopy lands are pretty big side-grades for a lot of Modern decks. I don't buy that Counterspell would have detracted from the overall hype of the set. Sure, it might have overshadowed some of the sub-par cards they seem to be tossing Modern's way, but don't "restrictions breed creativity"? Just go into design trying to make cards as exciting as Counterspell. Give midrange a powered up Thrun with the WAR god ability. Let stepmom target herself. Make Force of White actually playable. It isn't impossible to create cards on Counterspell's level; they've been doing that in Standard legal sets for a while (Arclight Phoenix being the most recent). I just don't get the reasoning for Counterspell's lack of inclusion. Sorry, rant over.
I'm glad to not see counterspell. UW control is already one of the most boring decks to play against in the entire format, and I'd rather WOTC not turn this into standard "I win on a Teferi emblem" matchups to satisfy a small number of players who will only play one very specific deck or complain to no end.
Counterspell is so muxh more than a 4-off in UWx control. It's going to help every conceivable blue deck, from Aggro/Tempo to Combo. It can be played in the SB of merfolks (or main), Knightfall, Delver Strategies etc. Hell, Blue Tron might even play it.
For years the community has been crying thare are no efficient answers in modern to combat degenerate decks (spell based or not and big mana decks) and, arguably, Counterspell is one of those tha will mostly push fair strategies to the forefront.
As for UW control being boring that wins by Teferi's emblem: a) That's extremely subjective and irrelevant to Counterspell's viability in the format and b)extremely untrue, especially post WAR.
I have no issue with people complaining about Counterspell's absence in MH. That's a reasonable thing to complain about, much like it's reasonable to complain that SFM is still on the banlist.
The problem is that many people who are complaining about Counterspell's exclusion (a specific issue) or SFM's legality (a specific issue) translate this frustration into complaints about Wizards' competence, format knowledge, design ability, etc. (extremely general issues). The bar to indict Wizards on these counts is extremely high and almost certainly unmet. Look at how many Standard cards have reshaped Modern in the past few years. Look at how the format has naturally and consistently adapted to allegedly broken decks even as the community has shouted for dozens of bans. These are clear signs that Wizards knows how to manage Modern in a way that pleases many players and keeps the format popular. This is because, as I noted earlier, Wizards has a long view of the format and a deep understanding that Modern tends to self-correct and arc towards dozens of viable strategies. Wizards doesn't need to meddle and they know it.
I understand that some players are dissatisfied with Modern because it does not match their vision of non-rotating Magic. A the same time, Wizards has made Modern's vision and execution very clear. Complaining about the current state of Modern or the state of Modern for the last 3 years would be like Standard players complaining that they can't play T3 engine combos. Or a Legacy player that wants to be play tribal aggro. In these cases, the complainants want something that is fundamentally incompatible with a defined format they are playing. Thankfully, we can point them elsewhere. It's easy to direct these complainants to another supported format where their needs are met. When people complain about the usual Modern issues, however, it's hard to point them elsewhere because the other options either don't fulfill those desires, or are visibly under-supported. Wizards has sold Modern as the non-rotating format of choice, which necessarily needs to appeal to hundreds of competing desires, play-types, game experiences, etc. It's inevitable that some people feel excluded or unheard. This does not mean Wizards isn't listening; as I noted earlier, their online presence is massive. It just means they didn't adopt feedback in a way that some players wanted.
As for MH, the negativity remains unwarranted for the reasons I have discussed. First, we have less than half of the set. That alone should be a full-stop to negativity as it only takes 1-2 cards to make a set format-shaping. Second, players of all calibers are notoriously inconsistent at card evaluation. We don't know which revealed cards are sleeper hits, fool's gold, or legitimate homeruns. Even the best players in the world are notoriously variable as card evaluators. Finally, previews are curated experiences that appeal to multiple audiences. Our forum and much of the Reddit r/modernmagic community (i.e. places where complaints are vocal) represent only a small subset of that audience. Previews geared towards our audience aren't going to happen every day of the week. They will be interspersed throughout the season. Anyone is capable of understanding these reasons, but so many people are quick to jump to wild conspiracy theories, reckless accusations, and personal axe-grinding that this gets lost in the fray. We can do better.
Counterspell is so muxh more than a 4-off in UWx control. It's going to help every conceivable blue deck, from Aggro/Tempo to Combo. It can be played in the SB of merfolks (or main), Knightfall, Delver Strategies etc. Hell, Blue Tron might even play it.
For years the community has been crying thare are no efficient answers in modern to combat degenerate decks (spell based or not and big mana decks) and, arguably, Counterspell is one of those tha will mostly push fair strategies to the forefront.
As for UW control being boring that wins by Teferi's emblem: a) That's extremely subjective and irrelevant to Counterspell's viability in the format and b)extremely untrue, especially post WAR.
No, a handful of people having been crying, as you put it. Please do not conflate all mtg players with a small subset who want to play a specific strategy in a specific format with success. Also, who cares if my opinion is subjective? All opinions are, which is why I say things like "I don't want this" as opposed to "this is proof WOTC isn't paying attention."
Remember when printed small Eldrazi, knowing about the manabase, because it would be cool and fun?
Remember when they said Ancestral Vision would help grindy slow blue decks?
Remember when they said Thopter Sword would help grindy slow blue decks?
Remember when they said Jace would help grindy slow blue decks?
Remember when they said Twin stifled blue diversity?
Remember when they bombarded blue with specifically UW cards (stifling diversity) and it still wasn't good enough for sustained competitive relevance?
Remember when they gave Dredge Cathartic Reunion and free 3/3s?
Remember when they printed a free, uninteractable Lightning Helix for Dredge?
Remember when they thought GGT was the problem with Dredge?
Remember when they thought BBE was the problem with Jund?
Remember when Jace and BBE came back and did nothing?
Remember when Tron kept getting new toys to become more obnoxious all the time?
Remember how they keep printing busted colorless cards for Tron/Prison?
Remember how they let Phoenix dominate GPs at disturbing levels for months?
Remember how green and red still have the best cantrips in Modern?
Remember how they think any blue cantrip has to be worse than Serum Visions?
Remember how they think Stoneforge Mystic is too good for Modern?
Remember how they think Counterspell is too good for Modern?
Remember when they printed that wacky new pump spell so Infect can T2 kill better?
Remember how they view diversity from a name standpoint and not archetype?
Remember how they hide and obfuscate information in order to create a false narrative of format health?
Remember when they printed Iconic Masters, and it lacked any sort of Iconic cards?
Remember when they printed a celebration of 25 years of Magic, and left out the most celebrated cards of Magic's history?
Remember when they printed a Modern-focused set, filled with maybe half a dozen playable cards, and a ton of Commander and Limited chaff?
Remember when they missed the mark entirely on what it takes to make a card playable in Modern?
And then there's recent Standard...
Remember when they printed ridiculous graveyard abuse cards with no way to fight it?
Remember when they printed Energy, and no way to interact with it?
Remember when no one in R&D noticed the Saheeli combo, spotted within 15 minutes of its spoiler?
Remember when they printed fetchlands and fetchable duals with a tri-color themed set?
Remember when they ignored all the other formats because they were too busy putting out the dumpster fire that was Standard?
Remember how they continued to ignore Modern almost entirely to focus on the "new! better!" Ravnica Standard?
There are likely many more instances, but these are just off the top of my head and I think you get the idea. You make the case that many of these things are isolated and specific events. This is true. But when taken on the whole, they indicate a pattern of incompetence, a lack of understanding of the format, and a specific desire to force their own narrative about what the format is by hiding data and telling us that our miserable experiences are just isolated small events.
I'm not going to delve into this too deeply as the set is not yet out fully, but my issue is very easy to articulate.
I, and others, put a lot of hope into this set being the 'shake up' for the Modern format, considering the apparent 'hands off' approach we have seen of late, especially with the dominance of Phoenix, and Dredge.
If this set does not deliver on this, its a staggering waste, looking back at the last 7+ months.
That said, I can wait for spoilers to complete before I walk away again.
I'm a Blue Mage. I want Counterspell in Modern (it wouldn't even be THAT good, honestly, in this kind of format).
But I don't really see why lots of people only know how to complain. "Give me Counterspell or Modern is a *****ty format!" is a biased statement, period. Modern is fine. If you don't enjoy it, cool. There is room for improvement, but it's definitely a healthy format. Maybe the best it has ever been.
Nowhere once did I say Counterspell should be in Modern, or that it would even make any meaningful waves. I can't speak for others, but I see it (along with many other things) as symptomatic of larger problems of ignorance in design and management.
it's definitely a healthy format. Maybe the best it has ever been.
What possible metrics are you using to determine this? Specifically what decks do you play? And what do you make of the last 6-8 months of competitive Modern?
Thats not a conversation that is going to go anywhere man. With that, and some of the spoilers today, I'm out till next week I just cannot take anymore.
I have been playing competitive modern for the past year and a half between burn and grixis shadow, and never felt like the format was garbage. I win some, I lose some. I am a pretty good player in that I started top 8'ing ptqs and cash events in the past year. My locals are very competitive, including names with GP and SCG top 8s, etc. A variety of decks put put up results, and in fact the last SCGQ on my side of the state was taken by UW control.
I think, and this is my opinion but I think it is a valid one, that people fixate on top 8s and championships of high level events to establish the best decks. In that case, grixis shadow and lantern control would be up towards the top, though I know shadow isn't the right type of blue.
The format is healthy because you can select a wide variety of decks with a real chance to win. Modern isn't the same as standard where you can metagame and pick a deck with an even or positive win% against the entire field.
In the last 2 years I played mostly Grixis Shadow, Blue Tron, UW Control, Snap-Delver-Thing, Moonless Blue Moon, Ux Turns, As Foretold End.
I had decent to good results with all of them.
There are lots of strategies which are good against the so-called Boogeymans of the format (Tron, Dredge, Phoenix). The only card I ever wanted to be banned is Burning Inquiry, not due to the power level but because of the "randomness" it provides (Hollow One is a deck that usually wins when turn one Inquiry is bad for your starting seven). Anything else is fine. You can play almost anything and be successfull with it - classic Midrange is, maybe, the only exception. I would love Counterspell and Stoneforge Mystic, but that's it.
Remember when printed small Eldrazi, knowing about the manabase, because it would be cool and fun?
Remember when they said Ancestral Vision would help grindy slow blue decks?
Remember when they said Thopter Sword would help grindy slow blue decks?
Remember when they said Jace would help grindy slow blue decks?
Remember when they said Twin stifled blue diversity?
Remember when they bombarded blue with specifically UW cards (stifling diversity) and it still wasn't good enough for sustained competitive relevance?
Remember when they gave Dredge Cathartic Reunion and free 3/3s?
Remember when they printed a free, uninteractable Lightning Helix for Dredge?
Remember when they thought GGT was the problem with Dredge?
Remember when they thought BBE was the problem with Jund?
Remember when Jace and BBE came back and did nothing?
Remember when Tron kept getting new toys to become more obnoxious all the time?
Remember how they keep printing busted colorless cards for Tron/Prison?
Remember how they let Phoenix dominate GPs at disturbing levels for months?
Remember how green and red still have the best cantrips in Modern?
Remember how they think any blue cantrip has to be worse than Serum Visions?
Remember how they think Stoneforge Mystic is too good for Modern?
Remember how they think Counterspell is too good for Modern?
Remember when they printed that wacky new pump spell so Infect can T2 kill better?
Remember how they view diversity from a name standpoint and not archetype?
Remember how they hide and obfuscate information in order to create a false narrative of format health?
Remember when they printed Iconic Masters, and it lacked any sort of Iconic cards?
Remember when they printed a celebration of 25 years of Magic, and left out the most celebrated cards of Magic's history?
Remember when they printed a Modern-focused set, filled with maybe half a dozen playable cards, and a ton of Commander and Limited chaff?
Remember when they missed the mark entirely on what it takes to make a card playable in Modern?
And then there's recent Standard...
Remember when they printed ridiculous graveyard abuse cards with no way to fight it?
Remember when they printed Energy, and no way to interact with it?
Remember when no one in R&D noticed the Saheeli combo, spotted within 15 minutes of its spoiler?
Remember when they printed fetchlands and fetchable duals with a tri-color themed set?
Remember when they ignored all the other formats because they were too busy putting out the dumpster fire that was Standard?
Remember how they continued to ignore Modern almost entirely to focus on the "new! better!" Ravnica Standard?
There are likely many more instances, but these are just off the top of my head and I think you get the idea. You make the case that many of these things are isolated and specific events. This is true. But when taken on the whole, they indicate a pattern of incompetence, a lack of understanding of the format, and a specific desire to force their own narrative about what the format is by hiding data and telling us that our miserable experiences are just isolated small events.
I read all of these and it's pretty funny. I still haven't seen 1 card even CLOSE to the power level of new Karn, Teferi and Narset in MH. Honestly I wouldn't even be playing a counterspell deck in modern right now even if it was released, but to think it's too good is insane. Resolved baby Teferi would still make all your counterspells useless. Little Narset would still make your Brainstorm be negative card draw. Karn would still, well, make you cry for having any sort of artifact based strategy. I was feeling pretty good with my U Tron list until recently, now I'm starting to consider other options. When Main deck cards are better at hating out decks than specific sideboard cards then I think that's a problem. I've been wanting to switch to Legacy for a long time anyway, so this is definitely pushing me even more in that direction.
Remember when printed small Eldrazi, knowing about the manabase, because it would be cool and fun?
Remember when they said Ancestral Vision would help grindy slow blue decks?
Remember when they said Thopter Sword would help grindy slow blue decks?
Remember when they said Jace would help grindy slow blue decks?
Remember when they said Twin stifled blue diversity?
Remember when they bombarded blue with specifically UW cards (stifling diversity) and it still wasn't good enough for sustained competitive relevance?
Remember when they gave Dredge Cathartic Reunion and free 3/3s?
Remember when they printed a free, uninteractable Lightning Helix for Dredge?
Remember when they thought GGT was the problem with Dredge?
Remember when they thought BBE was the problem with Jund?
Remember when Jace and BBE came back and did nothing?
Remember when Tron kept getting new toys to become more obnoxious all the time?
Remember how they keep printing busted colorless cards for Tron/Prison?
Remember how they let Phoenix dominate GPs at disturbing levels for months?
Remember how green and red still have the best cantrips in Modern?
Remember how they think any blue cantrip has to be worse than Serum Visions?
Remember how they think Stoneforge Mystic is too good for Modern?
Remember how they think Counterspell is too good for Modern?
Remember when they printed that wacky new pump spell so Infect can T2 kill better?
Remember how they view diversity from a name standpoint and not archetype?
Remember how they hide and obfuscate information in order to create a false narrative of format health?
Remember when they printed Iconic Masters, and it lacked any sort of Iconic cards?
Remember when they printed a celebration of 25 years of Magic, and left out the most celebrated cards of Magic's history?
Remember when they printed a Modern-focused set, filled with maybe half a dozen playable cards, and a ton of Commander and Limited chaff?
Remember when they missed the mark entirely on what it takes to make a card playable in Modern?
And then there's recent Standard...
Remember when they printed ridiculous graveyard abuse cards with no way to fight it?
Remember when they printed Energy, and no way to interact with it?
Remember when no one in R&D noticed the Saheeli combo, spotted within 15 minutes of its spoiler?
Remember when they printed fetchlands and fetchable duals with a tri-color themed set?
Remember when they ignored all the other formats because they were too busy putting out the dumpster fire that was Standard?
Remember how they continued to ignore Modern almost entirely to focus on the "new! better!" Ravnica Standard?
There are likely many more instances, but these are just off the top of my head and I think you get the idea. You make the case that many of these things are isolated and specific events. This is true. But when taken on the whole, they indicate a pattern of incompetence, a lack of understanding of the format, and a specific desire to force their own narrative about what the format is by hiding data and telling us that our miserable experiences are just isolated small events.
I read all of these and it's pretty funny. I still haven't seen 1 card even CLOSE to the power level of new Karn, Teferi and Narset in MH. Honestly I wouldn't even be playing a counterspell deck in modern right now even if it was released, but to think it's too good is insane. Resolved baby Teferi would still make all your counterspells useless. Little Narset would still make your Brainstorm be negative card draw. Karn would still, well, make you cry for having any sort of artifact based strategy. I was feeling pretty good with my U Tron list until recently, now I'm starting to consider other options. When Main deck cards are better at hating out decks than specific sideboard cards then I think that's a problem. I've been wanting to switch to Legacy for a long time anyway, so this is definitely pushing me even more in that direction.
I haven't been able to play much since those became legal, but yeah, I forgot how awesomely frustrating those all are likely to become. Playing Blue Moon with 10+ main deck counters seems pretty bad. Makes me consider just going back to Phoenix and splashing white for baby Teferi, Path, and Mentor. So much for trying to interact.
Edit: Hey! Just in time to trick me back into thinking interaction is worthwhile! (Archmage's Charm)
What are the top 5 cards from War of the Spark? Karn, Teferi, Narset, Dovin's Veto and Blast Zone? Lili's Triumph? Saheeli?
Yes it will be interesting to see if Modern Horizons can match such power.
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It's very easy for players to criticize Wizards' understanding of the format if we focus on misses without context. I prefer to look at the big picture since 2016. The most telling example of this is banlist management. Every few months since Eldrazi Winter, vocal subsets of the player community have clamored for bans. Pros have joined in (LSV and GDS is an infamous example). SCG casters regularly talk about bans and format health at every single event. I stopped counting the number of times authors tangentially mention bans in articles or Tweets, and I have seen literally dozens of ban suggestions made by players, authors, commentators, pros, observers, and other community members. These have included Tron lands, Mox Opal, GDS, Cavern, E-Temple, Company, SSG, Teferi, Baral, Manamorphose, Moon, Bridge, Hierarch, Stirrings, Looting, Inquiry, and many more. It's a widely established meme at this point. But throughout all of this, Wizards has ignored most outcry and only banned three cards: Probe (a card so broken it is banned in every non-Standard format), GGT (a surgical nerf to a still viable, top-tier deck), and KCI (a demonstrably broken deck by objective, predictable measures).
I argue this conservatism is because Wizards has a much deeper and broader understanding of format dynamics than most players who get caught up in the day to day grinding and comment mill. Wizards understands that barring extreme situations, the format arcs towards diversity and two dozen viable decks of all archetypes and colors. Bans aren't necessary. Targeted shakeups aren't necessary. Basically every new Standard set has trickled format-defining cards into Modern and Wizards knows this will continue to happen. Wizards also understands that this broad viability is central to Modern's widespread appeal, even if individual players from enfranchised, knowledgeable, and experienced cohorts disagree or dislike the format. Not all players will like this. Notably, players who prefer the powerful cantrips and countermagic of Legacy will probably not like this and will describe this format as high variance and low skill, even though I have disproven this claim more times than I can count with analyses of player/pro MWPs across formats.
Unfortunately, because Wizards does not support Legacy to the same extent as Modern, all players who prefer non-rotating formats generally are funneled into Modern specifically. This means that players who would probably prefer a Legacy environment can't really enjoy it. Standard and EDH players don't have this issue; they can just stick with the formats they want to play, especially with Arena offering such a great Standard experience. But because Modern is a top-down response to the problems of the Reserve List, it is the de facto nonrotating format of Magic and that will never appeal to all the players who could theoretically enjoy nonrotating Magic. This means there will always be critics, especially vocal, enfranchised, and experienced players who want a defined metagame, a 50/50+ deck, a specific type of strong interaction/selection, etc. Wizards just understands they can't please everyone and instead chooses to promote a format where two dozen decks can T8 a GP, and they understand this is possible with hands-off management.
Again, these kinds of criticisms are likely not grounded in reality. Wizards has visible representatives on Reddit and Twitter. They repost articles on the mothership from dozens of websites. A prominent R&D member is a mod alum of this website. It is implausible that they do not know about the feedback. They simply did not process the feedback how you and others might have preferred. It's frustratingly common to see people, both online and in person, criticizing large organizations for decisions with thousands of moving parts. They are obviously listening and engaging the community. It takes just a cursory look at even the last B&R announcement, where they explicitly mentioned Modern concerns, to realize this.
Counterspell is totally fine in Modern. Wizards' omission of Counterspell from MH does not mean it isn't appropriate in Modern. It also does not mean Wizards isn't listening to player feedback. I did not reply to a post you made about Counterspell. I replied to a post you made in which you expressed your beliefs that "I honestly don't think they care and wanna fix things", "If they actually cared it wouldnt be that hard to do a decent job," and other suggestions about a perception of Wizards' incompetence.
I have no issue with people criticizing the specific exclusion of a card from the set. It's a narrow criticism, but it's understandable as long as you are in dialogue with Wizards' actual cited reasons for doing so. I have a big issue with the wild extrapolation of "It sucks that Counterspell isn't in MH" to "Wizards doesn't listen to feedback, doesn't care, doesn't want to fix things, and is willfully or negligently doing a bad job." Those kinds of allegations have a very high bar and are simply not supportable given how much visible outreach (to say nothing of the invisible outreach) they do.
This is a good post, and in the three years I've been playing Modern I think they have managed the ban list very well.
I'm not sure what they expected MH to do to the meta, but it is looking a little like Sideboard/Commander masters at the moment. Still, there's plenty more to come yet.
Pauper: UR Puzzle Pieces
EDH: UB Phenax, God of Deception UR The Locust God UR Saheeli the Gifted WBG Anafenza, the Foremost
I wholeheartedly agree, which is why it's taken me this long to seriously wonder if wotc knows just what the hell they're doing when it comes to Modern. I haven't been happy with every decision they've made regarding the format over the years and I've criticized them when I felt it was warranted, but in the end I always assumed there were people onboard who likely know infinitely more about the format than I keeping tabs and monitoring the overall state of modern. The majority of aforementioned decisions pertain to the B&R list. I've deferred back to the "too powerful for Standard" rhetoric whenever I'm frustrated about the format lacking certain answer cards or color representation.
Despite having an overall unfavorable opinion of wotc/R&D the last 10 years, I was excited when MH was announced, because I assumed they would finally be able to improve the format through direct intervention now that the red tape and excuses were gone. Maybe we'll get some rock solid reprints in the second half and the set ends up being a great thing for Modern. However, if all we get in the end are some lands, slivers, and ******* bear tribal then that'll be straw that breaks the camel's back and I'll no longer be able to suspend my disbelief. The thing is they didn't have to make a direct to Modern set. Hell, even if they did they didn't have to put 'Modern' in the name and market it to the players of that format. But they did. And if EDH fodder along with a handful of immediately-relevant lands & cheeky tribal bull***** is what they think Modern NEEDS, I think those people need to be fired yesterday. I can see investor-related concerns contributing to a mindset of hedging bets by including a few EDH goodies, but you still need to deliver on the set's namesake. Frankly speaking, missing the mark by a mile is flat out embarrassing for a set that was hyped and promoted as something "powerful" that would shake up the format.
Regardless, after each day of spoilers its becoming more clear just how much time was spent on MH compared to recent standard sets. I know standard is the bread and butter, especially now with Arena taking off, but Modern is exponentially more complex due to the sheer amount of possibilities and it just feels like instead of taking the time to dig deep and design a set aimed at balancing out the meta, color pies, certain strats, etc they thought they'd be able to get away with skipping the time commitment by including cute nods to older cards and other surface level bull*****. It's like when you were a kid at christmas and your Grandma knew you loved playing games on your gameboy, so she went and got you Roller Coaster Tycoon for PC. It seems like there's mutual understanding on the surface, but that's the extent of it.
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.
There is however, a ***** load of non-sense tribal/EDH cards and very low power level callbacks (bad bad preordain, 5 mana ponder, did we really need a white beast within?, etc.). The marketing of this set has been atrocious.
Feels like the format is rewarding the linear decks even more with this set (the Canopy lands tend to be much better in decks like burn, bogles, etc., than mid-range/control decks), really good infect card, tribal aggro, etc.
I'm really tired of WoTC designing premium sets primarily for limited. Most people aren't going to regularly draft your 7$+ booster set. Burns my britches. /rantover
The spike side of me is on board with some of the other commenters here, thinking that this is NOT the set that we were advertised/expected from the hype build-up. Sure, there will definitely be some cards that make a splash, but a lot less than I was hoping for.
However, all that being said, I've seen a few comments that also resonate with me: if this set was a slam dunk and had a ton of must-have cards, what do you think the price point would be for those? Urza preorders are at $80 a pop! Sure, that will drop, sure the print run is supposedly demand-based, but still, I'm not sure how much I like the thought of new format staples being a buy-them-now-or-cry-later. Most casual spikes like myself aren't going to buy 4x of the chase rares/mythics in anticipation that in 6 months I'm going to want to switch decks to use those cards. Right now, I hvae about 4-5 playsets of cards that I'm going to try to pick up, and that will probably be over my budget as is. If this whole set was killer, I'd be crying a lot harder.
And Sheldon, nice replies, I'm always impressed with your level-headedness when basically repeating the same stances ad nauseum. I don't necessarily agree with your stances, but kudos to always being cool and calm.
All that being said, give me back ******* twin!!!! It's the only deck I've ever loved enough to never want to play anything else. RIP counterspell.
EDIT: and for the haters, since I've been working on a personal level about being more self-aware, Yes, it's probably because I'm a bad magic player and twin had a built-in number of free "Oops, I win" moments. Sue me, it was still a blast to play
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.
If they honestly believe that Counterspell would have outshone the rest of the set, then I have a great deal of concern for the cards we haven't seen yet. Sure, Counterspell is big, and strong, and has a heavy amount of emotional baggage, but if as a designer of a set don't think you're capable of outshining Counterspell with the boatload of tools MH1 has (countless mechanics, ignoring New World Order, nostalgia out the wazoo) then maybe there should have been someone else in charge of that decision. Urza, for instance is a friggin bombshell of nostalgia and power which would have made as large a splash as Counterspell. FoN has generated a lot of dialog. Serra made most of the Vorthoses happy, and I think the Commander crowd has been overjoyed with
ModernCommander Horizons. We have the return of Sliver after 5 years. We have presumably the remaining Swords in the Sword of X and Y cycle. Canopy lands are pretty big side-grades for a lot of Modern decks. I don't buy that Counterspell would have detracted from the overall hype of the set. Sure, it might have overshadowed some of the sub-par cards they seem to be tossing Modern's way, but don't "restrictions breed creativity"? Just go into design trying to make cards as exciting as Counterspell. Give midrange a powered up Thrun with the WAR god ability. Let stepmom target herself. Make Force of White actually playable. It isn't impossible to create cards on Counterspell's level; they've been doing that in Standard legal sets for a while (Arclight Phoenix being the most recent). I just don't get the reasoning for Counterspell's lack of inclusion. Sorry, rant over.However, I do understand why some people are frustrated not to get it. Well, maybe someday wotc would give counterspell to modern.
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Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
For years the community has been crying thare are no efficient answers in modern to combat degenerate decks (spell based or not and big mana decks) and, arguably, Counterspell is one of those tha will mostly push fair strategies to the forefront.
As for UW control being boring that wins by Teferi's emblem: a) That's extremely subjective and irrelevant to Counterspell's viability in the format and b)extremely untrue, especially post WAR.
The problem is that many people who are complaining about Counterspell's exclusion (a specific issue) or SFM's legality (a specific issue) translate this frustration into complaints about Wizards' competence, format knowledge, design ability, etc. (extremely general issues). The bar to indict Wizards on these counts is extremely high and almost certainly unmet. Look at how many Standard cards have reshaped Modern in the past few years. Look at how the format has naturally and consistently adapted to allegedly broken decks even as the community has shouted for dozens of bans. These are clear signs that Wizards knows how to manage Modern in a way that pleases many players and keeps the format popular. This is because, as I noted earlier, Wizards has a long view of the format and a deep understanding that Modern tends to self-correct and arc towards dozens of viable strategies. Wizards doesn't need to meddle and they know it.
I understand that some players are dissatisfied with Modern because it does not match their vision of non-rotating Magic. A the same time, Wizards has made Modern's vision and execution very clear. Complaining about the current state of Modern or the state of Modern for the last 3 years would be like Standard players complaining that they can't play T3 engine combos. Or a Legacy player that wants to be play tribal aggro. In these cases, the complainants want something that is fundamentally incompatible with a defined format they are playing. Thankfully, we can point them elsewhere. It's easy to direct these complainants to another supported format where their needs are met. When people complain about the usual Modern issues, however, it's hard to point them elsewhere because the other options either don't fulfill those desires, or are visibly under-supported. Wizards has sold Modern as the non-rotating format of choice, which necessarily needs to appeal to hundreds of competing desires, play-types, game experiences, etc. It's inevitable that some people feel excluded or unheard. This does not mean Wizards isn't listening; as I noted earlier, their online presence is massive. It just means they didn't adopt feedback in a way that some players wanted.
As for MH, the negativity remains unwarranted for the reasons I have discussed. First, we have less than half of the set. That alone should be a full-stop to negativity as it only takes 1-2 cards to make a set format-shaping. Second, players of all calibers are notoriously inconsistent at card evaluation. We don't know which revealed cards are sleeper hits, fool's gold, or legitimate homeruns. Even the best players in the world are notoriously variable as card evaluators. Finally, previews are curated experiences that appeal to multiple audiences. Our forum and much of the Reddit r/modernmagic community (i.e. places where complaints are vocal) represent only a small subset of that audience. Previews geared towards our audience aren't going to happen every day of the week. They will be interspersed throughout the season. Anyone is capable of understanding these reasons, but so many people are quick to jump to wild conspiracy theories, reckless accusations, and personal axe-grinding that this gets lost in the fray. We can do better.
No, a handful of people having been crying, as you put it. Please do not conflate all mtg players with a small subset who want to play a specific strategy in a specific format with success. Also, who cares if my opinion is subjective? All opinions are, which is why I say things like "I don't want this" as opposed to "this is proof WOTC isn't paying attention."
So can WOTC.
Remember when printed small Eldrazi, knowing about the manabase, because it would be cool and fun?
Remember when they said Ancestral Vision would help grindy slow blue decks?
Remember when they said Thopter Sword would help grindy slow blue decks?
Remember when they said Jace would help grindy slow blue decks?
Remember when they said Twin stifled blue diversity?
Remember when they bombarded blue with specifically UW cards (stifling diversity) and it still wasn't good enough for sustained competitive relevance?
Remember when they gave Dredge Cathartic Reunion and free 3/3s?
Remember when they printed a free, uninteractable Lightning Helix for Dredge?
Remember when they thought GGT was the problem with Dredge?
Remember when they thought BBE was the problem with Jund?
Remember when Jace and BBE came back and did nothing?
Remember when Tron kept getting new toys to become more obnoxious all the time?
Remember how they keep printing busted colorless cards for Tron/Prison?
Remember how they let Phoenix dominate GPs at disturbing levels for months?
Remember how green and red still have the best cantrips in Modern?
Remember how they think any blue cantrip has to be worse than Serum Visions?
Remember how they think Stoneforge Mystic is too good for Modern?
Remember how they think Counterspell is too good for Modern?
Remember when they printed that wacky new pump spell so Infect can T2 kill better?
Remember how they view diversity from a name standpoint and not archetype?
Remember how they hide and obfuscate information in order to create a false narrative of format health?
Remember when they printed Iconic Masters, and it lacked any sort of Iconic cards?
Remember when they printed a celebration of 25 years of Magic, and left out the most celebrated cards of Magic's history?
Remember when they printed a Modern-focused set, filled with maybe half a dozen playable cards, and a ton of Commander and Limited chaff?
Remember when they missed the mark entirely on what it takes to make a card playable in Modern?
And then there's recent Standard...
Remember when they printed ridiculous graveyard abuse cards with no way to fight it?
Remember when they printed Energy, and no way to interact with it?
Remember when no one in R&D noticed the Saheeli combo, spotted within 15 minutes of its spoiler?
Remember when they printed fetchlands and fetchable duals with a tri-color themed set?
Remember when they ignored all the other formats because they were too busy putting out the dumpster fire that was Standard?
Remember how they continued to ignore Modern almost entirely to focus on the "new! better!" Ravnica Standard?
There are likely many more instances, but these are just off the top of my head and I think you get the idea. You make the case that many of these things are isolated and specific events. This is true. But when taken on the whole, they indicate a pattern of incompetence, a lack of understanding of the format, and a specific desire to force their own narrative about what the format is by hiding data and telling us that our miserable experiences are just isolated small events.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
I, and others, put a lot of hope into this set being the 'shake up' for the Modern format, considering the apparent 'hands off' approach we have seen of late, especially with the dominance of Phoenix, and Dredge.
If this set does not deliver on this, its a staggering waste, looking back at the last 7+ months.
That said, I can wait for spoilers to complete before I walk away again.
Spirits
I'm a Blue Mage. I want Counterspell in Modern (it wouldn't even be THAT good, honestly, in this kind of format).
But I don't really see why lots of people only know how to complain. "Give me Counterspell or Modern is a *****ty format!" is a biased statement, period. Modern is fine. If you don't enjoy it, cool. There is room for improvement, but it's definitely a healthy format. Maybe the best it has ever been.
What possible metrics are you using to determine this? Specifically what decks do you play? And what do you make of the last 6-8 months of competitive Modern?
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Spirits
I think, and this is my opinion but I think it is a valid one, that people fixate on top 8s and championships of high level events to establish the best decks. In that case, grixis shadow and lantern control would be up towards the top, though I know shadow isn't the right type of blue.
The format is healthy because you can select a wide variety of decks with a real chance to win. Modern isn't the same as standard where you can metagame and pick a deck with an even or positive win% against the entire field.
I had decent to good results with all of them.
There are lots of strategies which are good against the so-called Boogeymans of the format (Tron, Dredge, Phoenix). The only card I ever wanted to be banned is Burning Inquiry, not due to the power level but because of the "randomness" it provides (Hollow One is a deck that usually wins when turn one Inquiry is bad for your starting seven). Anything else is fine. You can play almost anything and be successfull with it - classic Midrange is, maybe, the only exception. I would love Counterspell and Stoneforge Mystic, but that's it.
Modern is a healthy format.
I profoundly and fundamentally disagree. But nothing you say will change my experiences, just as nothing I say will change yours.
What I hope we CAN agree on though is the unbelievably disappointing number of Modern playable cards in this special, designed-for-Modern set.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
I read all of these and it's pretty funny. I still haven't seen 1 card even CLOSE to the power level of new Karn, Teferi and Narset in MH. Honestly I wouldn't even be playing a counterspell deck in modern right now even if it was released, but to think it's too good is insane. Resolved baby Teferi would still make all your counterspells useless. Little Narset would still make your Brainstorm be negative card draw. Karn would still, well, make you cry for having any sort of artifact based strategy. I was feeling pretty good with my U Tron list until recently, now I'm starting to consider other options. When Main deck cards are better at hating out decks than specific sideboard cards then I think that's a problem. I've been wanting to switch to Legacy for a long time anyway, so this is definitely pushing me even more in that direction.
Edit: Hey! Just in time to trick me back into thinking interaction is worthwhile! (Archmage's Charm)
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Yes it will be interesting to see if Modern Horizons can match such power.