huh, never thought I would see a dredge based deck that could also run thalia. That is kind of awesome. Also, yeah that does look like a pretty resilient deck. Thanks for sharing the link and I will update my list of decks to include it later today when I have a bit more time.
Seems a bit like you are playing for god hands instead of for just the normal game. I don't think you can get off your combo with boneyard wurm in enough games to make it worth running it since it is not a reusable threat.
Also, since when has Jund been control?
Its a really good list, but I kind of want to see if a more dedicated dredge deck is good in modern. The thing about his list is that with all his mana accelerants, he is not really on a full out dredge plan. He is more of on a plan that is like dredge or just ramp. Thats really my only issue with it.
It's pretty much just the deck that was standard with a mana base that can play bloodbraid elf. This was always my issue with that deck. It's not a dredge deck at all. It's just a deck that throws its deck into the gravyard and plays 1 drops and bloodbraids to recur vengevine. It's just much more boring than a real dredge. When I played dredgevine I used more black, with extractor demons and other guys like bloodghast. It at least felt more like dredge. But that was before fauna shaman was printed.
Actually I revise my comments after reading his latest list. The list I saw him playing on youtube was really black lite, and didn't run many actual dredgers, no darkblast, and was using bloodbraid elf as a trick to recur. It looked like a straight up port of the old standard ug dredgevine. I like the new list much better.
Ok, this is my first post..But I want to get some idea/constrictive criticism on this deck as well as choices for a better mana base, better sideboard, overall how I could make it better.
I really like this deck, it's amazingly innovative. Delerium Skeins looks brutal; I've never thought of that card when thinking about a deck like this.
Here are some threads that might give you further ideas:
have you not seen legacy/vintage/old extended dredge???
picture this scenario: You cast faithless looting, you have two dredgers in the yard (pick your two), then you use each separate instance to dredge instead of draw, and then you discard said dredgers. Same spell has flashback....you can do it again. I will argue that it is *the* most powerful spell in modern to enable a dredging strategy.
To be honest, I would remove blue entirely. I don't believe it enables enough in here to be worth it. The core should be black/green with a stable splash for faithless looting and possibly other such looting as you choose.
Cards that don't seem to make a whole lot of sense:
extractor demon
civilized scholar
skaab ruinator
renegade doppelganger
ideas unbound (faithless looting is straight up superior tot his, period)
If you must run blue, then run magus of the bazaar. You're a graveyard deck, anyways.
I'd recommend a discard outlet. Legacy dredge runs putrid imp, and however nice that would be here, the best we've got is zombie infestation and oona's prowler. Note the synergy the first has with haakon/gravecrawler.
Ok so after reading the second link that tomathan88 linked me to I guess splashing red for just looking can be good.
The main reason I run blue is the Hedron crab, 6 lands off a cracked fetch and a land hitting is pretty good. It requires less work that faithless, which requires me to have dredge cards in the grave while the crab is easily a great enabler. Another reason was the scholar + renegade combo where the renegade is an easy tutor/discard outlet.
So Removing blue hypothetically would warrent getting rid of the crab, schollar and renegade, as well as the Skaab (which is surprisingly intense) as well as a good ammount of mana.
(ideas Unbound does seem a little lacking when compared to faithless dredging back an imp and thug for 9, then discarding them back again.)
Looking at the other lists I would probably be better off just getting rid of the Schollar and Renegade combo, as well as the Extractor for an unburial rites and fatty of choice and some lootings that can be flash backed, or simply splash a little red for them. Then theres no need to get rid of my Idea unbound or skaab ruinators.
gitaxias? meh. elesh is ok. I'd rather see griselbrand myself. That card just wins games. On the manabase, I don't know about the enters unless you control basic types. Personally, I'd rather see just a couple more fetches (think life from the loam on them...) and basics as well as the appropriate colored duals.
I read the threads too. Maybve phantasmagorian is superior to delirium skeins? I will admit, however, that delirium skeins does a number on your opponent.
I could throw in a few mountains and maybe one of the shocklands (since the fetches can get them and Im already runninf the red blue fetches.) which would also help with my side-boarded ancient grudges.
I think I like Delirium a bit more just because I like screwing my opponent over definitively instead of a "they may" clause.
Well, his ability helps you as well as anything else if you have a graveyard full of dredgers. Among other things, a 7/7 lifelinker is nothing to sneeze at and can win games by his lonesome. Beyond that, however...
Delirium as a 2 of probably isn't a bad idea. I can see running the hedron crabs. they are a good enabler in a fetch heavy build.
However, the primer noted some very bad matchups for you:
affinity: You might want a 4th ancient grudge if this one is common for you.
fast combo such as splintertwin: well, there are a few ways around this one. torpor orb is something I'm starting to like a lot, actually. very narrow answer, however.
red storm decks: thorn of amethyst is pretty obnoxious without hurting you tons. one on the battlefield pretty well neuters ritual decks.
If you are going to be using unburial rites, wouldn't it be good to have another way to create white mana instead of just birds to paradise?
Also, with all of the path to exiles in the format, I'd prefer to reanimate something like empyrial archangel. It can also stop a lot of aggro decks in their tracks. iona, shield of emeria also offers a bit of protection for herself, and can really mess up some decks.
http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Digital/MagicOnlineTourn.aspx?x=mtg/digital/magiconline/tourn/3492417
It's a pretty resilient deck.
WB tokens WB
Modern
WUBRG Dredge WUBRG
WB tokens WB
Modern
WUBRG Dredge WUBRG
WB tokens WB
Modern
WUBRG Dredge WUBRG
WB tokens WB
Modern
WUBRG Dredge WUBRG
Also, since when has Jund been control?
WB tokens WB
Modern
WUBRG Dredge WUBRG
http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/deck/923
uses unburial rights as a back up win con. seems fun.
It's pretty much just the deck that was standard with a mana base that can play bloodbraid elf. This was always my issue with that deck. It's not a dredge deck at all. It's just a deck that throws its deck into the gravyard and plays 1 drops and bloodbraids to recur vengevine. It's just much more boring than a real dredge. When I played dredgevine I used more black, with extractor demons and other guys like bloodghast. It at least felt more like dredge. But that was before fauna shaman was printed.
Actually I revise my comments after reading his latest list. The list I saw him playing on youtube was really black lite, and didn't run many actual dredgers, no darkblast, and was using bloodbraid elf as a trick to recur. It looked like a straight up port of the old standard ug dredgevine. I like the new list much better.
The Deck:
2x Blood Crypt
1x Breeding Pool
1x Island
3x Misty Rainforest
2x Overgrown Tomb
2x Scalding Tarn
2x Stomping Ground
2x Swamp
3x Verdant Catacombs
3x Watery Grave
Instant (4)
2x Darkblast
2x Nameless Inversion
4x Birds of Paradise
4x Golgari Thug
4x Gravecrawler
3x Haakon, Stromgald Scourge
4x Hedron Crab
4x Stinkweed Imp
4x Vengevine
Sorcery (8)
3x Faithless Looting
3x Life from the Loam
2x Raven's Crime
4x Ancient Grudge
3x Torpor Orb
3x Thorn of Amethyst
2x Darkblast
3x Tormod's Crypt
All Help is appreciated! This is my first play into modern and want to get into tournaments so that is a thing to keep in mind as well.
EDIT:Deck Was updated to current build.
Standard:
WBGJunk MidrangeWBG
Modern
WUBGKiki PodWUBG
EDH:
WUBRGReaper King PodWUBRG
Cards you want to consider:
Haakon, Stromgald scourge
Gravecrawler (see haakon)
faithless looting
liliana of the veil
Add an extra life from the loam or two for the solid dredge + card advantage and maybe some raven's crime.
Maybe up to 3 mutavault, for the synergy with gravecrawler.
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
I can see using
But what should I remove for them? As well as How many of each?
and possibly Liliana (not sure if I enjoy it since I probably would need to run 4 just to use her since shes in the grave)
------
But I personally don't see red/looting really working well (it works but I dont really like Running red and I think that Blue is a little better).
------
I would probably take out the two Worm Harvests for two more Life from the Loams
I also Enjoy the idea of Raven's Crime and even mutavaults
Standard:
WBGJunk MidrangeWBG
Modern
WUBGKiki PodWUBG
EDH:
WUBRGReaper King PodWUBRG
I really like this deck, it's amazingly innovative. Delerium Skeins looks brutal; I've never thought of that card when thinking about a deck like this.
Here are some threads that might give you further ideas:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=370076
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=398693
picture this scenario: You cast faithless looting, you have two dredgers in the yard (pick your two), then you use each separate instance to dredge instead of draw, and then you discard said dredgers. Same spell has flashback....you can do it again. I will argue that it is *the* most powerful spell in modern to enable a dredging strategy.
To be honest, I would remove blue entirely. I don't believe it enables enough in here to be worth it. The core should be black/green with a stable splash for faithless looting and possibly other such looting as you choose.
Cards that don't seem to make a whole lot of sense:
extractor demon
civilized scholar
skaab ruinator
renegade doppelganger
ideas unbound (faithless looting is straight up superior tot his, period)
If you must run blue, then run magus of the bazaar. You're a graveyard deck, anyways.
I'd recommend a discard outlet. Legacy dredge runs putrid imp, and however nice that would be here, the best we've got is zombie infestation and oona's prowler. Note the synergy the first has with haakon/gravecrawler.
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
The main reason I run blue is the Hedron crab, 6 lands off a cracked fetch and a land hitting is pretty good. It requires less work that faithless, which requires me to have dredge cards in the grave while the crab is easily a great enabler. Another reason was the scholar + renegade combo where the renegade is an easy tutor/discard outlet.
So Removing blue hypothetically would warrent getting rid of the crab, schollar and renegade, as well as the Skaab (which is surprisingly intense) as well as a good ammount of mana.
(ideas Unbound does seem a little lacking when compared to faithless dredging back an imp and thug for 9, then discarding them back again.)
Looking at the other lists I would probably be better off just getting rid of the Schollar and Renegade combo, as well as the Extractor for an unburial rites and fatty of choice and some lootings that can be flash backed, or simply splash a little red for them. Then theres no need to get rid of my Idea unbound or skaab ruinators.
So far I'm going to
-2 Civilized Schollar X
-2 Renegade DoppelganerX
-2 Extractor Demon
-2 Worm Harvest
-3 Ideas Unbound
-1 Gnaw to the bone
-1 Skaab Ruinator
(13)
+1 Jin-Gitaxias, the core augur Or Elesh
+1 Unburial Rights
+2 Life From the Loam
+2 Gravecrawler
+2 Haakon, Stromgald scourge
+3 Faithless Looting
+2 Bridge from below
(13)
And would You guys be willing to help get my mana base a slight red splash? And would Mutavault be good then?
Overall im ok with this deck becoming UBRG, kinda makes it fun
Standard:
WBGJunk MidrangeWBG
Modern
WUBGKiki PodWUBG
EDH:
WUBRGReaper King PodWUBRG
I read the threads too. Maybve phantasmagorian is superior to delirium skeins? I will admit, however, that delirium skeins does a number on your opponent.
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
I could throw in a few mountains and maybe one of the shocklands (since the fetches can get them and Im already runninf the red blue fetches.) which would also help with my side-boarded ancient grudges.
I think I like Delirium a bit more just because I like screwing my opponent over definitively instead of a "they may" clause.
I will probably try The Brand Man
Standard:
WBGJunk MidrangeWBG
Modern
WUBGKiki PodWUBG
EDH:
WUBRGReaper King PodWUBRG
Delirium as a 2 of probably isn't a bad idea. I can see running the hedron crabs. they are a good enabler in a fetch heavy build.
However, the primer noted some very bad matchups for you:
affinity: You might want a 4th ancient grudge if this one is common for you.
boros: hellooooo darkblast.
fast combo such as splintertwin: well, there are a few ways around this one. torpor orb is something I'm starting to like a lot, actually. very narrow answer, however.
red storm decks: thorn of amethyst is pretty obnoxious without hurting you tons. one on the battlefield pretty well neuters ritual decks.
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
Also, with all of the path to exiles in the format, I'd prefer to reanimate something like empyrial archangel. It can also stop a lot of aggro decks in their tracks. iona, shield of emeria also offers a bit of protection for herself, and can really mess up some decks.
I can always add a 4th ancient grudge
Darkblast does seem really good against boros
I've been playing around with Torpor Orb as well.
And thorn does seem to slow storm down a little bit.
Overall how does this look?
-2 Surgical Extraction
-2 Pithing Needle
-2 Extirpate
+2 Thorn of Amythest
+1 Ancient grudge
+1 Darkblast (since it can be drudged back up)
+2 Torpor Orb
Standard:
WBGJunk MidrangeWBG
Modern
WUBGKiki PodWUBG
EDH:
WUBRGReaper King PodWUBRG