If your list can consistently do three damage a turn then it could be pretty awesome, problem is that's hard to do.
This is what I was thinking. Dealing damage is one thing, but dealing three damage is another. You would almost be better splashing a bit of blue for Shadowmage Infiltrator or Mask of Riddles, though I am not sure I would call those cards good ideas they could be worth a test.
Hey all, so I have been playing around with this and have come up with a devotion/Death Cloud hybrid, not sure if I should post it here or in the Death Cloud thread as it is pretty different from any lists in either thread. Here is the list:
This plays as a control deck that takes advantage of resilient creatures to kill the opponent after we decimate their resources. I have had decent success with it though I am sure it could be tweaked. One card I am thinking about adding is Illness in the Ranks over the additional removal in the sideboard but I don't know if its versatile enough. Personally I like this better than the Obliterator/aggro lists I've tried though I admit I shied away from those pretty quickly. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
Hey all, so I have been playing around with this and have come up with a devotion/Death Cloud hybrid, not sure if I should post it here or in the Death Cloud thread as it is pretty different from any lists in either thread. Here is the list:
This plays as a control deck that takes advantage of resilient creatures to kill the opponent after we decimate their resources. I have had decent success with it though I am sure it could be tweaked. One card I am thinking about adding is Illness in the Ranks over the additional removal in the sideboard but I don't know if its versatile enough. Personally I like this better than the Obliterator/aggro lists I've tried though I admit I shied away from those pretty quickly. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
This seems like a bit of a contradiction to me. The point of devotion decks is to keep a lot of permanents on the table, and Death Cloud removes a lot of permanents.
I've been working on a list as well, which focuses on a lot of hand and land disruption. Here it is:
I think this deck has just about everything: hand-disruption for control and combo decks like Twin, LD for decks that rely on non-basics like Tron and Jund, and mass-removal for decks that rely on lots of creatures like WW, Elves, and Merfolk.
One of the problems I've noticed is that the body count is a little light. To that end, I'm thinking about changing the Inquisitions to Ravenous Rats. I still get some of the discard value, but I also get an extra creature for Whip and Grave Pact. I'm also thinking about changing the Sword and the Wretches in the board to Abrupt Decay as another sort of "catch-all" card.
I see your point but I think this deck uses Devotion a little differently. Most of the permanents I play are resilient enough to get through Cloud while still building devotion early. If I don't get swarmed early this usually leaves me with a better board presence post Cloud then the opponent, even if I only "use" Devotion once all game I am almost guaranteed a win post Cloud. My deck's early game is much worse than your list and is a definite weakness but I am still able to run a fair amount of disruption and removal to help me stabilize. I can also win without cloud as I can still build up to a big Gary and get through with resilient creatures.
Your list seems more traditionally reliant on Whip and Gary but has some nice interactions. I really like Fulminator and Shriekmaw with Whip. Grave Pact looks awesome with BBB but I wonder if you need some sort of sac outlet to better utilize it? I don't think the B and interaction with Whip is at all worth losing the power of Inquisition for Rats. Rats is significantly worse against combo and the 1/1 body doesn't do much on the board. No instant speed removal besides Whip/Maw seems worrisome and I have found Abrupt Decay to be a must as it hits so much in the format. What is your gameplan agains sweepers?
Liliana, Whip, and Arena are all unaffected by sweepers. Fulminator and sometimes Shriekmaw are usually sacrificed immediately. I usually don't have that many creatures on the table at one time.
You're probably right about the Rats. Someone else mentioned that it felt like more spot removal was in order, so Abrupt Decay might just be best in the Inquisition spot.
Seems like a really interesting deck that's coming out. Is it worth sticking to mono black with all the mana fixing? I feel white for paths and whatever else might help and green for DRS and Decays is a smart add. I mean, we have the fetch lands and shocks to mana fix. So is the goal to just beat down and then Nykthos for a huge fireball effect?
Dark Confidant and Ad Nauseum are pretty bad together. Do you find yourself committing suicide accidentally very often? I feel like one or the other would be fine, and I think Confidant fits the bill a bit more, since Ad Nauseum is so expensive.
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"It's like some kind of Voltron... made of elephants??"
I'm testing out Genju of the Fens and Nantuko Shade right now, So far my only loss was to affinity, but I lose to that deck anyway so it isn't a point against the deck. I cant decide if I like Nantuko Shade over Bloodghast yet or not, he swing for massive damage and block, but Blood Ghast is recur-able.
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"It's like some kind of Voltron... made of elephants??"
I think people aren't exactly understanding what happens when the deck "goes off". Basically, you draw your deck(very literally, the whole thing) and play it and drain the opponent for a whole lot of life(you actually want to drain them before you draw your deck as that would be an unfortunate way to lose), and you need lots of mana when that happens; Nykthos I think is better than Crypt, but they're basically the same card in this deck which is awesome since now the deck has access to 8 of these huge mana producing cards. The current list doesn't keep the Sorin main deck anymore, I'll side it in against decks that gain a lot of life or infinite life even.
I wouldn't cut any of the lands at this point. The changes I'm looking to make involve the Dark Confidants and Ad Nauseum. They aren't necessary for this list to function, the other cards are the core. I wanted the deck to have more CA, but there may be other cards that do this. Street Wraith for instance, though I don't think I'll be trying him anytime soon.
I should note that you don't have to combo out to win; I get enough free wins just from playing a bunch of 1 mana dorks and a couple of blood artists.
I suppose if you can do this consistently then there's a place for it. But you're playing only 14 Swamps in the deck including Urborg which seems really bad in a deck with a ton of spells that want Swamps. You're really not interacting with your opponent in any meaningful way so how are you not losing to combo on turn four? It seems like this deck takes a couple of turns longer to go off than other combo decks if you don't find at least two Swamps.
I really like the look of this deck. I reckon it would be so much fun to play, but I'm interested in people thoughts/experiences on a few things:
How does the deck fair against grave hate?
Is cavern of souls naming "zombie" worth a try?
Does anyone think thoughtsieze should be in the main?
Is vampire nighthawk worth a slot in the already-clogged 3-drop?
Been working on this deck for a couple weeks.I have a few other decks that are established, but this is the most fun deck to play by a long shot. About to play the DE with it, but after reading the whole thread I wanted to throw out a few thoughts. First - there are two very different decks in this thread. The first is the true devotion/gray merchant version and the second is the immortal servitude 1 drop version, which looks cool but should be a different deck.
Dark Confidant - my favorite all time card and I own a playset. Doesn't belong in the devotion version at all though. I'm running 4 x Grey Merchant, 4 x Phyrexian Obliterator, and 12 x 3 drops. That's 20 cards over 3 cmc. Even though "dies to removal" isn't a solid argument all the time, its very relevant in comparing Bob to Phyrexian Arena. Surprised this is even up for debate.
Planeswalker killing. Sure there is pithing needle. However, I have found Vampire Hexmage to be much more versatile and permanent. I'm not trying to play 10 turns. I would rather get a problem walker off the board and be able to drop Hexmage on turn-2 to wait for them to drop it. Worst case I get a nice blocker and 2 devotion.
Liliana of the Veil - one of my favorite cards, but with 23 lands and only 4 cards I'm ok having in the GY (Bloodghast) she doesn't shine big time here. A lot of times I find that she is a 3CMC edict that gives me 2 devotion. She gets better post board when I can bring in extirpates against a deck like Living End - since they always pitch it when its in their hand. I'm running two - but really like seeing it as a 4-of in the board.
Ok, DE time, will post a report and my whole decklist afterwards if anyone is interested.
MTGO Daily Event
Match 1: Boros Landfall
G1: He got me down to 5 life after I Maelstrom Pulse his two goblin guides. Glad I added those in there last minute before the DE. Two DRS were beasts and helped me T4 a Phyrexian Obliterator, making all of his creature attacks into one sided Jokulhaups. Gary came down FTW but it was pretty much my game baring multiple top-deck burn spells regardless.
G2: I sided out my Phyrexian Arenas, brought in my lone Inquisition of Kozilek, all my Gatekeepers, and even Hexmages to get some good blockers. He was super fast with a series of Ghost Quarters, 2 Steppe Lynx, Boros Charm, and fetches. 8/9 Lynx is good. (1-1)
G3: Close game, he pathed my Phyrexian Obliterator with 3 of his own creatures on board, but turn 5 Gray Merchant is pretty much game over. (2-1).
Match 2: RDW... I'm missing my Vampire Nighthawks after the T1 rift bolt already...
G1: Too fast for me, T4 win for him.
G2: Similar, but went to T6, when I had a Phyrexian Obliterator. Two thoughtseizes hurt, but they kept him stuck on 2 lands with no bolts. Obliterator was good against his multiple Keldon Mauraders that ended up being "bad" burn spells. A top deck Mountain when I'm at 4 got him his 3rd land to cast his only card in hand - Flames of the Firebrand. (0-2)
Burn is simply a bad matchup unless I can get stall long enough to get a Turn 5 Gray Merchant out. Creature based aggro is favorable, but I only ever saw Keldon Mauraders from him, which makes removal just OK. I'm sure the 1 drop version of this deck would handle Burn much better. Also tempted to play a damn Dragon's Claw if RDW/Burn starts to gain more popularity.
Match 3: UR Kiki...
Mull to 5, keep 2 lands with two Thoughtseize. Wait 7 turns - don't draw anymore land. Sitting on 2 Lili, 3 Phyrexian Obliterator, and Geralf.
G2: He hits his PM/ST combo T4 after I Pithing Needle Exarch (after seeing it with a Thoughtseize) when he didn't have Pestermight or Splinter Twin in his opener.
Match 4: Merfolk
G1: Don't miss my land drops. T5 I have two Phyrexian Obliterators plus a Gray Merchant, Arena and DRS... pretty much our nuts.
G2: Stuck on 2 lands with an awesome hand. Is 23 lands ideal I wonder? I need 5 lands pretty consistently by T6, so I'm thinking I might add some more shocklands.
G3: He keeps 1 Mutavault and an Aether Vial. I Thoughtseize T1 and get his Vial. He draws 4 Islands in a row, plays his hand out and I misclick F2 with 7 mana floating and enough devotion on the board with Gray Merchant in Hand. I concede after I F2 past my floating mana with a Gray Merchant win on the board and show Gray Merchant. I'm sure he was confused.
Overall, I'm happy with the deck. I'm going to go up to 24 lands and keep tweaking.
What about Profane Command as a finisher/reanimator/removal option? With Nykthos we can generate some good mana and it can bring back Obliterator for another go round. I also like having Gatekeeper/Nighthawk mainboard over Messenger as it creates a better matchup against aggro decks.
I think Gary is better in this deck then Grisel. 7 Mana is still a lot, even with Nykthos and we don't have any other way to cheat him in play. This deck also tends to be running fairly low on life a lot so Grisel doesn't really do much when he comes into play as paying 7 is often not realistic and he can't swing that turn.
Gary is much better than Griselbrand here. Gary wins the game on turn 5. Otherwise you have to draw nykthos and then your best hope is seeing him on t6-7 even if you or your opponent haven't done anything to affect the board. Doesn't seem likely.
NVRBLND has it right. I have come to same of the same conclusions he has. I added a couple more fetches to help feed DRS and also give me more reliable green mana for Abrupt Decay and Maelstrom Pulse. I also have felt like one of the biggest problems I have is my 3 drop slot. There are no shortages of three drops for this deck. I had been running Geralf, but he doesn't help a ton with consistency. Sure, he is a sick 2 drop, but there are a lot of times he sits in my hand when I draw a Nykthos.
Speaking of Nykthos, funny how I wanted to design the deck around abusing it, but its not nearly as amazing as I originally planned. 3 seems about right. If you went 4, I would definitely suggest adding a second Urborg.
The deck also only has 4 answers to anything with flying (and no answers to Colonnade - sure as hell don't want to add another colorless land like Tec Edge or GQ). There are enough Vendillion Cliques, Delvers, Colonnades in the meta right now and they are really good against this deck. Solution is pretty obvious -4 Geralf, +4 Vampire Nighthawk.
I went 3-1 in the Modern Daily yesterday with this deck, so it still has some life to it. Definitely need to shore up the sideboard a bit more. I have changed it since last night again.
I know Leyline of the Void provides Devotion here, but I prefer Extirpate partly because I do graveyard shenanigans with Bloodghast and Profane Command and mainly because it can't be interacted with whereas Leyline can be.
Leyline of the Void only affects your opponent's graveyards. Bloodghast and Profane Command are unaffected.
Popping into this thread to share a random finding of mine.
It's not really exclusively mono black devotion, but if you want to splash green, it turns out that turns out bloodghast -> geralf's messenger -> murderous redcap -> gray merchant is a really strong birthing pod chain without any cards that are individually "bad".
It also allows you to play deathrite shaman & birds of paradise to speed your overall gameplan up a bit. It turns more into a birthing pod deck, but hey, gray merchant pod is pretty powerful, and pretty lethal overall.
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Reprint Opt for Modern!!
FREE DIG THOROUGH TIME!
PLAY MORE ROUGE DECKS!
4x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
4x Verdant Catacombs
2x Marsh Flats
2x Overgrown Tomb
12x Swamp
Creatures (15):
4x Deathrite Shaman
4x Bloodghast
2x Gatekeeper of Malakir
3x Geralf's Messenger
2x Gray Merchant of Asphodel
4x Thoughtseize
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
3x Death Cloud
Instants (5):
3x Abrupt Decay
2x Dismember
Enchantments (2):
2x Phyrexian Arena
Planeswalkers (4):
4x Liliana of the Veil
1x Abrupt Decay
1x Dismember
3x Fulminator Mage
3x Infest
4x Leyline of the Void
3x Sudden Death
This plays as a control deck that takes advantage of resilient creatures to kill the opponent after we decimate their resources. I have had decent success with it though I am sure it could be tweaked. One card I am thinking about adding is Illness in the Ranks over the additional removal in the sideboard but I don't know if its versatile enough. Personally I like this better than the Obliterator/aggro lists I've tried though I admit I shied away from those pretty quickly. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
Signature by DarkNightCavalier at Heroes of the Plane Studios
This seems like a bit of a contradiction to me. The point of devotion decks is to keep a lot of permanents on the table, and Death Cloud removes a lot of permanents.
I've been working on a list as well, which focuses on a lot of hand and land disruption. Here it is:
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Fulminator Mage
4 Phyrexian Obliterator
3 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
3 Shriekmaw
Permanents (11):
4 Liliana of the Veil
3 Phyrexian Arena
2 Grave Pact
2 Whip of Erebos
4 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
Lands (24):
3 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Marsh Flats
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Overgrown Tomb
10 Swamp
4 Rain of Tears
3 Extirpate
3 Infest
2 Withered Wretch
2 Night of Souls' Betrayal
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
One of the problems I've noticed is that the body count is a little light. To that end, I'm thinking about changing the Inquisitions to Ravenous Rats. I still get some of the discard value, but I also get an extra creature for Whip and Grave Pact. I'm also thinking about changing the Sword and the Wretches in the board to Abrupt Decay as another sort of "catch-all" card.
Yeva (88/92 foils)
Raff
Scarab
Rakdos
Wort ($50 budget, 94/97 foils)
Trostani
Your list seems more traditionally reliant on Whip and Gary but has some nice interactions. I really like Fulminator and Shriekmaw with Whip. Grave Pact looks awesome with BBB but I wonder if you need some sort of sac outlet to better utilize it? I don't think the B and interaction with Whip is at all worth losing the power of Inquisition for Rats. Rats is significantly worse against combo and the 1/1 body doesn't do much on the board. No instant speed removal besides Whip/Maw seems worrisome and I have found Abrupt Decay to be a must as it hits so much in the format. What is your gameplan agains sweepers?
Signature by DarkNightCavalier at Heroes of the Plane Studios
You're probably right about the Rats. Someone else mentioned that it felt like more spot removal was in order, so Abrupt Decay might just be best in the Inquisition spot.
Yeva (88/92 foils)
Raff
Scarab
Rakdos
Wort ($50 budget, 94/97 foils)
Trostani
Follow the link for nice cheap clothing.
Playing:
Death's Shadow Jund
Played:
Kiki Chord, Zoo variants, Goblins, Burn
Credit goes to Brofoux for the Sig pic.
Current Modern Deck
Black Licorice
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=11006564#post11006564
Credit goes to Brofoux for the Sig pic.
Current Modern Deck
Black Licorice
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=11006564#post11006564
I suppose if you can do this consistently then there's a place for it. But you're playing only 14 Swamps in the deck including Urborg which seems really bad in a deck with a ton of spells that want Swamps. You're really not interacting with your opponent in any meaningful way so how are you not losing to combo on turn four? It seems like this deck takes a couple of turns longer to go off than other combo decks if you don't find at least two Swamps.
How does the deck fair against grave hate?
Is cavern of souls naming "zombie" worth a try?
Does anyone think thoughtsieze should be in the main?
Is vampire nighthawk worth a slot in the already-clogged 3-drop?
Niv-Mizzet Ramp 'n' Wheel
Godo: Strap him up and turn him sideways!
Dark Confidant - my favorite all time card and I own a playset. Doesn't belong in the devotion version at all though. I'm running 4 x Grey Merchant, 4 x Phyrexian Obliterator, and 12 x 3 drops. That's 20 cards over 3 cmc. Even though "dies to removal" isn't a solid argument all the time, its very relevant in comparing Bob to Phyrexian Arena. Surprised this is even up for debate.
Planeswalker killing. Sure there is pithing needle. However, I have found Vampire Hexmage to be much more versatile and permanent. I'm not trying to play 10 turns. I would rather get a problem walker off the board and be able to drop Hexmage on turn-2 to wait for them to drop it. Worst case I get a nice blocker and 2 devotion.
Liliana of the Veil - one of my favorite cards, but with 23 lands and only 4 cards I'm ok having in the GY (Bloodghast) she doesn't shine big time here. A lot of times I find that she is a 3CMC edict that gives me 2 devotion. She gets better post board when I can bring in extirpates against a deck like Living End - since they always pitch it when its in their hand. I'm running two - but really like seeing it as a 4-of in the board.
Ok, DE time, will post a report and my whole decklist afterwards if anyone is interested.
Match 1: Boros Landfall
G1: He got me down to 5 life after I Maelstrom Pulse his two goblin guides. Glad I added those in there last minute before the DE. Two DRS were beasts and helped me T4 a Phyrexian Obliterator, making all of his creature attacks into one sided Jokulhaups. Gary came down FTW but it was pretty much my game baring multiple top-deck burn spells regardless.
G2: I sided out my Phyrexian Arenas, brought in my lone Inquisition of Kozilek, all my Gatekeepers, and even Hexmages to get some good blockers. He was super fast with a series of Ghost Quarters, 2 Steppe Lynx, Boros Charm, and fetches. 8/9 Lynx is good. (1-1)
G3: Close game, he pathed my Phyrexian Obliterator with 3 of his own creatures on board, but turn 5 Gray Merchant is pretty much game over. (2-1).
Match 2: RDW... I'm missing my Vampire Nighthawks after the T1 rift bolt already...
G1: Too fast for me, T4 win for him.
G2: Similar, but went to T6, when I had a Phyrexian Obliterator. Two thoughtseizes hurt, but they kept him stuck on 2 lands with no bolts. Obliterator was good against his multiple Keldon Mauraders that ended up being "bad" burn spells. A top deck Mountain when I'm at 4 got him his 3rd land to cast his only card in hand - Flames of the Firebrand. (0-2)
Burn is simply a bad matchup unless I can get stall long enough to get a Turn 5 Gray Merchant out. Creature based aggro is favorable, but I only ever saw Keldon Mauraders from him, which makes removal just OK. I'm sure the 1 drop version of this deck would handle Burn much better. Also tempted to play a damn Dragon's Claw if RDW/Burn starts to gain more popularity.
Match 3: UR Kiki...
Mull to 5, keep 2 lands with two Thoughtseize. Wait 7 turns - don't draw anymore land. Sitting on 2 Lili, 3 Phyrexian Obliterator, and Geralf.
G2: He hits his PM/ST combo T4 after I Pithing Needle Exarch (after seeing it with a Thoughtseize) when he didn't have Pestermight or Splinter Twin in his opener.
Match 4: Merfolk
G1: Don't miss my land drops. T5 I have two Phyrexian Obliterators plus a Gray Merchant, Arena and DRS... pretty much our nuts.
G2: Stuck on 2 lands with an awesome hand. Is 23 lands ideal I wonder? I need 5 lands pretty consistently by T6, so I'm thinking I might add some more shocklands.
G3: He keeps 1 Mutavault and an Aether Vial. I Thoughtseize T1 and get his Vial. He draws 4 Islands in a row, plays his hand out and I misclick F2 with 7 mana floating and enough devotion on the board with Gray Merchant in Hand. I concede after I F2 past my floating mana with a Gray Merchant win on the board and show Gray Merchant. I'm sure he was confused.
Overall, I'm happy with the deck. I'm going to go up to 24 lands and keep tweaking.
17 Swamp
4 Marsh Flats
2 Overgrown Tomb
3 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Creatures
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Bloodghast
4 Geralf's Messenger
4 Phyrexian Obliterator
4 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
2 Liliana of the Veil
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Phyrexian Arena
4 Thoughtseize
2 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
2 Ratchet Bomb
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Vampire Hexmage
1 Pithing Needle
4 Extirpate
Here is what I'm thinking:
12 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Marsh Flats
2 Overgrown Tomb
3 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Creatures 18
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Bloodghast
3 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Phyrexian Obliterator
3 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
4 Liliana of the Veil
Spells 14
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Phyrexian Arena
4 Thoughtseize
2 Profane Command
2 Gatekeeper of Malakir
3 Fulminator Mage
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Infest
2 Duress
1 Dismember
Signature by DarkNightCavalier at Heroes of the Plane Studios
Signature by DarkNightCavalier at Heroes of the Plane Studios
Speaking of Nykthos, funny how I wanted to design the deck around abusing it, but its not nearly as amazing as I originally planned. 3 seems about right. If you went 4, I would definitely suggest adding a second Urborg.
The deck also only has 4 answers to anything with flying (and no answers to Colonnade - sure as hell don't want to add another colorless land like Tec Edge or GQ). There are enough Vendillion Cliques, Delvers, Colonnades in the meta right now and they are really good against this deck. Solution is pretty obvious -4 Geralf, +4 Vampire Nighthawk.
I went 3-1 in the Modern Daily yesterday with this deck, so it still has some life to it. Definitely need to shore up the sideboard a bit more. I have changed it since last night again.
Leyline of the Void only affects your opponent's graveyards. Bloodghast and Profane Command are unaffected.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
It's not really exclusively mono black devotion, but if you want to splash green, it turns out that turns out bloodghast -> geralf's messenger -> murderous redcap -> gray merchant is a really strong birthing pod chain without any cards that are individually "bad".
It also allows you to play deathrite shaman & birds of paradise to speed your overall gameplan up a bit. It turns more into a birthing pod deck, but hey, gray merchant pod is pretty powerful, and pretty lethal overall.