I managed to make it to FNM at my local store, and placed 7th out of 14. While I'm not happy with placing mid field, I learned a good deal about the weakness in my own deck list, and things I need to work on.
I ran the same list I posted earlier with some changes-
My opponent came ready for standard, so he had to quickly adjust it for modern 30 minutes before we started.
Long story short, for both rounds his mana base can't hold up to the constant small pox and death clouds. The rats destroyed his hand, and when Path to Exile would hit a vampire nighthawk, it would only fuel Death cloud.
I've never played against tron before, and wasn't sure what to expect.
The first game I was busy trying to figure out how to deal with a 2nd Wurmcoil Engine and the tokens from the first one I killed, when Emrakul, the Aeons Torn showed up to end game 1.
Game 2, I pulled out duress and added extirpate and chalice. I did nothing but mis-plays, and gave an easy win for my opponent.
Game 1, I was on the draw and kept a risky hand of 1 swamp, 2 Duress, Bauble, Ravenous Rats, Smallpox and Underworld dreams.
His first turn inquisition, pulling smallpox. I draw a 2nd bauble, duress and see 2Kitchen Finks, Wilt-Leaf Liege, land, and 1 spell I don't even remember what it was now.
The game goes on to my 5th turn before I see a 2nd land, and by then it's too late.
Lesson Learned.
Game 2. Out with duress again, and in with gatekeepers.
Turn 2 I play a rat, only to see the Liege enter play from it, and more finks soon after. I never drew a good answer, and soon got overrun.
Game 1, my opponent takes the lead with 2 soul wardens, 2 Suture Priest and a Serra Ascendant. I only have a Chittering rat, Mimic Vat and vampire Nighthawk. The hawk get's pathed, Rune-Tail, Kitsune Ascendant lands and flips. His following attack leaves me at 8, him over 36. I topdeck my 4th land in a row, and proceed to death cloud for 5 leaving him only Rune-Tail's Essence in play with no hand. I meanwhile have 3 mana and a Vat with an imprinted rat. He doesnt draw a land, so the game ends in my win.
Game 2 shows another swarm of creatures again including Ajani's Pridemate this time, but an early death cloud followed by more rodent's keeping his hand empty gives me the win again.
Over all, I learned 3 important things-
1: While I love Underworld Dreams, it's just not as good in modern as it is in Legacy. There aren't enough draw effects for it.
2:Duress doesn't fit my needs for the deck. Too many times it's failed to hit anything, or been a dead card in my hand. Not having a turn 1 play other than bauble isn't so bad when it leads to a more consistent deck over all.
3:Extirpate doesn't need to hit the card I am going to have trouble with if I can disrupt my opponents ability to find it.
I would like to try 2 Phyrexian Obliterator but I don't have any yet, so that's gonna have to wait. The Rack will be replacing Underworld Dreams, and with that change Phyrexian Arena's seem like a good fit to replace for sign in blood
Crucible of Worlds might also be something to look at too, but for now I'm going to work on tracking down 2 more Phyrexian Arena's.
Slaughter games are in for the WUR midrange decks, naming mainly Geist or even Cryptic Command, depending on the board status (Chalice for 2). The same for the Sin Collectors in the sideboard (I feel the most important thing for this deck is to protect Geist at all costs). Let`s see what happen!
Slaughter games are in for the WUR midrange decks, naming mainly Geist or even Cryptic Command, depending on the board status (Chalice for 2). The same for the Sin Collectors in the sideboard (I feel the most important thing for this deck is to protect Geist at all costs). Let`s see what happen!
In case I didn't tell you, I don't care about your opinion I just want your facts. And not the facts that make you seem smart. I want the ones that are actual facts.
I would agree. I think he could run 2x Shadow of Doubt maindeck to a similar (yet cheaper and cantripping) effect. Slaughter Games maindeck is a fringe tech, that will be useless often I presume. Of course this depends on your specific meta.
In general I think that Shadow of Doubt is actually a really useful maindeck card, especially for a control deck such as this one. Sure Shadow costs 2 and would interfere with Chalice, I think its relevance worth it.
I would agree. I think he could run 2x Shadow of Doubt maindeck to a similar (yet cheaper and cantripping) effect. Slaughter Games maindeck is a fringe tech, that will be useless often I presume. Of course this depends on your specific meta.
In general I think that Shadow of Doubt is actually a really useful maindeck card, especially for a control deck such as this one. Sure Shadow costs 2 and would interfere with Chalice, I think its relevance worth it.
I don't think Shadow of Doubt will do want I want to do. I want to improve the WUR pairing, and WUR doesn't search the library except for lands. For sure it would be more useful than Slaughter Games in many other pairings, but I'm not worried about these. In addition, as you said, Shadow of Doubt interferes Chalice.
Give me a try. I would post some results next Monday
Actually, me too; but I don't want to totally change my deck strategy before trying.
I don't think Shadow of Doubt will do want I want to do. I want to improve the WUR pairing, and WUR doesn't search the library except for lands. For sure it would be more useful than Slaughter Games in many other pairings, but I'm not worried about these. In addition, as you said, Shadow of Doubt interferes Chalice.
Give me a try. I would post some results next Monday
I've ignored the Tron match-up and focused on winning versus U tempo or control.
And yes I am playing 3 main deck Smiters.
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In case I didn't tell you, I don't care about your opinion I just want your facts. And not the facts that make you seem smart. I want the ones that are actual facts.
Another idea for those of us playing Chalices: what about ramp in form of Search for tomorrow? I think somebody mentioned it two years ago in the old thread but those days nobody was thinking in a list with Chalices (without the artifact, everybody always preferred STE and other spells instead of SFT). It plays well with Chalices since is very rare playing them for X=3... and you could have something to do on the first turn!
I've ignored the Tron match-up and focused on winning versus U tempo or control.
And yes I am playing 3 main deck Smiters.
I like that list very much, but unfortunately I don't have access to the discard spells (apart from Duress) right now... I guess Thoughtsize will be my next investment
anyone thought of or tried running sin collector in this deck? Turn 1 thoughtseize into Turn 2 removal into turn 3 sin collector sounds pretty good. Likely can trade with a dude/eat another bolt, or at worst provide a critical chump.
Obviously not real great vs. hyper-aggro or combo decks. Sideboard card? Thoughts?
anyone thought of or tried running sin collector in this deck? Turn 1 thoughtseize into Turn 2 removal into turn 3 sin collector sounds pretty good. Likely can trade with a dude/eat another bolt, or at worst provide a critical chump.
Obviously not real great vs. hyper-aggro or combo decks. Sideboard card? Thoughts?
Not really viable unless you want to play Junk colors. Liliana of the Veil more than fills that discard role anyway. Besides, if you're already playing TS, isn't Sin Collector redundant?
Also anyone else excited for Reaper of the Wild from Theros? It can be a solid finisher after you Death Clouded. With all of the other creatures dying from a cloud spell, he can set your top decks up to finish the game.
I would almost say that BG Death Cloud is now only viable if splashing white for Lingering Souls. The card is so important for this deck. That being said, I feel that Sin Collector is a little too narrow to be a maindeck card. Could definitely be useful in the sideboard though.
Reaper of the Wild seems interesting, but essentially you have to wait til 6 mana to drop him since you want to be able to give him hexproof, unless you know they don't have an answer for him. But in that case wouldn't you rather cast something like Obliterator? For 4 mana, a creature needs to be very very good in this format. I would almost rather cast a Thrun than Reaper of the Wild. He will make waves in standard for sure, but IDK about modern.
I would almost say that BG Death Cloud is now only viable if splashing white for Lingering Souls. The card is so important for this deck. That being said, I feel that Sin Collector is a little too narrow to be a maindeck card. Could definitely be useful in the sideboard though.
Reaper of the Wild seems interesting, but essentially you have to wait til 6 mana to drop him since you want to be able to give him hexproof, unless you know they don't have an answer for him. But in that case wouldn't you rather cast something like Obliterator? For 4 mana, a creature needs to be very very good in this format. I would almost rather cast a Thrun than Reaper of the Wild. He will make waves in standard for sure, but IDK about modern.
Yeah I agree on Soul's being part of the core now. Finks has found his way back into my heart as well. I actually like the Gorgon, just not in this deck.
I'm way more interested in the Black God. He would easily survive cloud. It is the type of card that I feel fits in a Cloud deck.
I also think Junk is our best bet in the long run for building a better deck.
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In case I didn't tell you, I don't care about your opinion I just want your facts. And not the facts that make you seem smart. I want the ones that are actual facts.
Yeah I agree on Soul's being part of the core now. Finks has found his way back into my heart as well. I actually like the Gorgon, just not in this deck.
I'm way more interested in the Black God. He would easily survive cloud. It is the type of card that I feel fits in a Cloud deck.
I also think Junk is our best bet in the long run for building a better deck.
I'm still going to stick with B/G for right now. I actually like Nylea's Bow from Theros, it reminds me of Green's Umezawa's Jitte. I thought the Gorgon might be a good fit until Phyrexian Obliterator was suggested. Lastly, any thoughts for Thragtusk? I'm a little iffy about including him because he costs 5 mana.
I'm still going to stick with B/G for right now. I actually like Nylea's Bow from Theros, it reminds me of Green's Umezawa's Jitte. I thought the Gorgon might be a good fit until Phyrexian Obliterator was suggested. Lastly, any thoughts for Thragtusk? I'm a little iffy about including him because he costs 5 mana.
I like swaggy. He is in the 3-1 lists that have popped up.
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In case I didn't tell you, I don't care about your opinion I just want your facts. And not the facts that make you seem smart. I want the ones that are actual facts.
I've tried Bow of Nylea, and from the few games I've run, I'm loving it. It takes away counters from persisted Kitchen Finks, and 3 life gain per turn saves your ass a lot of times... plus post-death cloud it's amazing!! Here's the list I've tried:
I might need Deathrite Shaman or Scavenging Ooze to deal with recurrence and graveyard maindeck, but I don't like the lack of synergy with sweepers of this 2 dudes.
The 3 cmc slot seems a bit overcrowded, probably the addition of Deathrite Shaman will smooth out that aspect quite a bit. I'll try him.
This is the deck list I have been running. I play pox in legacy so this is the best I get in modern. The decklist was 5/8 at some 50 player event. It is really good and I was impressed when I started playing it. I played cloud back in standard and it was a lot of fun so I was happy when doing research for it. This deck has a lot of early answers for aggro and later answers to gain life back. Thragtusk is really nuts in the deck and the kitchen finks are obviously great. Bow of Nylea as someone suggested seems like a decent add. Finks would be great with it as a blocker plus it helps keep it around to keep gaining life so I think whoever is adding it has a great idea. If I were to run it I would replace 1 cloud and 1 damnation for it as a 2 of. I wouldn't want any more than that.
Whip of Erobos is great in this deck. Just another value card, and this one dodges Abrupt Decay. It is of course best with Swaggy and Finks for those absurd life swings.
I might look at the bow as well. So far I really like some of the cards from the new set. I love Hero's Demise. Any extra ways to kill Karn are great in my book.
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In case I didn't tell you, I don't care about your opinion I just want your facts. And not the facts that make you seem smart. I want the ones that are actual facts.
Whip of Erobos is great in this deck. Just another value card, and this one dodges Abrupt Decay. It is of course best with Swaggy and Finks for those absurd life swings.
I might look at the bow as well. So far I really like some of the cards from the new set. I love Hero's Demise. Any extra ways to kill Karn are great in my book.
it would be great to use that to recur a tusk in order to get more value out of his enter and leaves triggers. Plus 5 life from him swinging with life link. I just think using the bow to get extra value out of finks is where we really wanna be in the deck. Maybe a 1 or 2 of whip in the board to switch out for bow in the main. It could catch a lot of people off guard. I like them both for the deck, but I think 2 of 1 main and 2 of the other side is where we could go.
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I ran the same list I posted earlier with some changes-
4 Wayfarer's Bauble
4 Chittering Rats
4 Ravenous Rats
4 Vampire Nighthawk
2 Damnation
3 Death Cloud
3 Duress
4 Smallpox
3 Sign in Blood
2 Syphon Life
3 Underworld Dreams
18 Swamp
2 Pithing Needle
2 Extirpate
1 Death cloud
4 Gatekeeper of Malark
4 Victim of Night
My opponent came ready for standard, so he had to quickly adjust it for modern 30 minutes before we started.
Long story short, for both rounds his mana base can't hold up to the constant small pox and death clouds. The rats destroyed his hand, and when Path to Exile would hit a vampire nighthawk, it would only fuel Death cloud.
I've never played against tron before, and wasn't sure what to expect.
The first game I was busy trying to figure out how to deal with a 2nd Wurmcoil Engine and the tokens from the first one I killed, when Emrakul, the Aeons Torn showed up to end game 1.
Game 2, I pulled out duress and added extirpate and chalice. I did nothing but mis-plays, and gave an easy win for my opponent.
Game 1, I was on the draw and kept a risky hand of 1 swamp, 2 Duress, Bauble, Ravenous Rats, Smallpox and Underworld dreams.
His first turn inquisition, pulling smallpox. I draw a 2nd bauble, duress and see 2Kitchen Finks, Wilt-Leaf Liege, land, and 1 spell I don't even remember what it was now.
The game goes on to my 5th turn before I see a 2nd land, and by then it's too late.
Lesson Learned.
Game 2. Out with duress again, and in with gatekeepers.
Turn 2 I play a rat, only to see the Liege enter play from it, and more finks soon after. I never drew a good answer, and soon got overrun.
Game 1, my opponent takes the lead with 2 soul wardens, 2 Suture Priest and a Serra Ascendant. I only have a Chittering rat, Mimic Vat and vampire Nighthawk. The hawk get's pathed, Rune-Tail, Kitsune Ascendant lands and flips. His following attack leaves me at 8, him over 36. I topdeck my 4th land in a row, and proceed to death cloud for 5 leaving him only Rune-Tail's Essence in play with no hand. I meanwhile have 3 mana and a Vat with an imprinted rat. He doesnt draw a land, so the game ends in my win.
Game 2 shows another swarm of creatures again including Ajani's Pridemate this time, but an early death cloud followed by more rodent's keeping his hand empty gives me the win again.
Over all, I learned 3 important things-
1: While I love Underworld Dreams, it's just not as good in modern as it is in Legacy. There aren't enough draw effects for it.
2: Duress doesn't fit my needs for the deck. Too many times it's failed to hit anything, or been a dead card in my hand. Not having a turn 1 play other than bauble isn't so bad when it leads to a more consistent deck over all.
3: Extirpate doesn't need to hit the card I am going to have trouble with if I can disrupt my opponents ability to find it.
I would like to try 2 Phyrexian Obliterator but I don't have any yet, so that's gonna have to wait. The Rack will be replacing Underworld Dreams, and with that change Phyrexian Arena's seem like a good fit to replace for sign in blood
Crucible of Worlds might also be something to look at too, but for now I'm going to work on tracking down 2 more Phyrexian Arena's.
Pooping moving to Chalices?? I can't believe it!!
(Just kidding, no offense ;))
This is the deck variant I want to test this FNM at my local store:
4 Overgrown Tomb
1 Godless Shrine
1 Temple Garden
1 Plains
2 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Marsh Flats
3 Stirring Wildwood
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Stomping Ground
1 Blood Crypt
1 Mountain
4 Lingering Souls
4 Garruk Wildspeaker
3 Liliana of the Veil
4 Damnation
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Slaughter Games
3 Death Cloud
4 Kitchen Finks
2 Eternal Witness
Slaughter games are in for the WUR midrange decks, naming mainly Geist or even Cryptic Command, depending on the board status (Chalice for 2). The same for the Sin Collectors in the sideboard (I feel the most important thing for this deck is to protect Geist at all costs). Let`s see what happen!
I'm a bit skeptical of the Slaughter Games.
Cockatrice username: Blackcat77
I would agree. I think he could run 2x Shadow of Doubt maindeck to a similar (yet cheaper and cantripping) effect. Slaughter Games maindeck is a fringe tech, that will be useless often I presume. Of course this depends on your specific meta.
In general I think that Shadow of Doubt is actually a really useful maindeck card, especially for a control deck such as this one. Sure Shadow costs 2 and would interfere with Chalice, I think its relevance worth it.
Draft My Cube!
Actually, me too; but I don't want to totally change my deck strategy before trying.
I don't think Shadow of Doubt will do want I want to do. I want to improve the WUR pairing, and WUR doesn't search the library except for lands. For sure it would be more useful than Slaughter Games in many other pairings, but I'm not worried about these. In addition, as you said, Shadow of Doubt interferes Chalice.
Give me a try. I would post some results next Monday
You could try this:
3 Garruk Wildspeaker
3 Overgrown Tomb
4 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Treetop Village
2 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Godless Shrine
3 Liliana of the Veil
4 Temple Garden
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Lingering Souls
4 Kitchen Finks
3 Raven's Crime
2 Life from the Loam
2 Stirring Wildwood
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Loxodon Smiter
I've ignored the Tron match-up and focused on winning versus U tempo or control.
And yes I am playing 3 main deck Smiters.
Cockatrice username: Blackcat77
I like that list very much, but unfortunately I don't have access to the discard spells (apart from Duress) right now... I guess Thoughtsize will be my next investment
Elvish Visionary vs. Sakura-Tribe Elder
Garruk, Primal Hunter vs. Garruk Wildspeaker
Credit to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the Avatar & Miraculous Recovery for the Banner.
My 540 Card Cube (WIP)
Obviously not real great vs. hyper-aggro or combo decks. Sideboard card? Thoughts?
Not really viable unless you want to play Junk colors. Liliana of the Veil more than fills that discard role anyway. Besides, if you're already playing TS, isn't Sin Collector redundant?
Also anyone else excited for Reaper of the Wild from Theros? It can be a solid finisher after you Death Clouded. With all of the other creatures dying from a cloud spell, he can set your top decks up to finish the game.
Credit to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the Avatar & Miraculous Recovery for the Banner.
My 540 Card Cube (WIP)
Reaper of the Wild seems interesting, but essentially you have to wait til 6 mana to drop him since you want to be able to give him hexproof, unless you know they don't have an answer for him. But in that case wouldn't you rather cast something like Obliterator? For 4 mana, a creature needs to be very very good in this format. I would almost rather cast a Thrun than Reaper of the Wild. He will make waves in standard for sure, but IDK about modern.
Draft My Cube!
Yeah I agree on Soul's being part of the core now. Finks has found his way back into my heart as well. I actually like the Gorgon, just not in this deck.
I'm way more interested in the Black God. He would easily survive cloud. It is the type of card that I feel fits in a Cloud deck.
I also think Junk is our best bet in the long run for building a better deck.
Cockatrice username: Blackcat77
I'm still going to stick with B/G for right now. I actually like Nylea's Bow from Theros, it reminds me of Green's Umezawa's Jitte. I thought the Gorgon might be a good fit until Phyrexian Obliterator was suggested. Lastly, any thoughts for Thragtusk? I'm a little iffy about including him because he costs 5 mana.
Credit to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the Avatar & Miraculous Recovery for the Banner.
My 540 Card Cube (WIP)
I like swaggy. He is in the 3-1 lists that have popped up.
Cockatrice username: Blackcat77
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Godless Shrine
1 Plains
2 Forest
3 Treetop Village
6 Swamp
2 Damnation
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Dismember
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Kitchen Finks
4 Voice of Resurgence
3 Bow of Nylea
4 Lingering Souls
I might need Deathrite Shaman or Scavenging Ooze to deal with recurrence and graveyard maindeck, but I don't like the lack of synergy with sweepers of this 2 dudes.
The 3 cmc slot seems a bit overcrowded, probably the addition of Deathrite Shaman will smooth out that aspect quite a bit. I'll try him.
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Tectonic Edge
3 Treetop Village
3 Swamp
2 Forest
2 Golgari Rot Farm
1 Woodland Cemetery
1 Twilight Mire
10 CREATURES
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
4 Kitchen Finks
2 Thragtusk
4 Death Cloud
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
2 Damnation
4 Fertile Ground
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Garruk Wildspeaker
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Damnation
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Sudden Death
2 Memoricide
2 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Wurmcoil Engine
2 Relic of Progenitus
This is the deck list I have been running. I play pox in legacy so this is the best I get in modern. The decklist was 5/8 at some 50 player event. It is really good and I was impressed when I started playing it. I played cloud back in standard and it was a lot of fun so I was happy when doing research for it. This deck has a lot of early answers for aggro and later answers to gain life back. Thragtusk is really nuts in the deck and the kitchen finks are obviously great. Bow of Nylea as someone suggested seems like a decent add. Finks would be great with it as a blocker plus it helps keep it around to keep gaining life so I think whoever is adding it has a great idea. If I were to run it I would replace 1 cloud and 1 damnation for it as a 2 of. I wouldn't want any more than that.
I might look at the bow as well. So far I really like some of the cards from the new set. I love Hero's Demise. Any extra ways to kill Karn are great in my book.
Cockatrice username: Blackcat77
it would be great to use that to recur a tusk in order to get more value out of his enter and leaves triggers. Plus 5 life from him swinging with life link. I just think using the bow to get extra value out of finks is where we really wanna be in the deck. Maybe a 1 or 2 of whip in the board to switch out for bow in the main. It could catch a lot of people off guard. I like them both for the deck, but I think 2 of 1 main and 2 of the other side is where we could go.