If you need to take out Enchantments, white is the premier color for that. Erase and Sundering Growth are both excellent options.
I play Disenchant : Destroy target artifact or enchantment. Moreover, there is a full art textless of this card that can destabilize for your opponent.
Hello everyone. First time posting here. I recently decided to move from Standard to Modern, mainly because I got tired of all that monoblack/monoblue stuff, but that's a completely different story.
I am quite tight on budget, and overall am considering either switching Scullers for Thoughtseize, buying some leylines and Runed Halos.
Also I am not sure if I should add fetches here. Maybe there is something else that you think should go from my list? Please advice, because this format is completely new for me and I don't know what to expect in tournaments to come.
Like said before, you should go ahead with Marsh Flats (and if more fetches are needed Verdant Catacombs or Arid Mesa). That depends if you need more W or B...
Finally, I think that Thoughtseize can be play with Tidehollow Sculler if you have enough room for both of them. It depends if you prefer to be more aggro/token or more control. If you have friends that allows you to play with proxies this is the best way to know… Playtesting is the key!
One of my favorite addition here is Surgical Extraction (I put one main just in case). It's really crippling exiling important cards from your opponent's deck. Destroy an Urza Land with Ghost Quarter and then follow it up with Surgical Extraction. Combos good too with our discard spells. Thoughtseize away that Birthing Pod and then extract it away. Also, I was on the fence of whether or not adding Castigate in here.
I prefer Tidehollow Sculler over Castigate. It is true that Tidehollow Sculler can be kill or exile, then the card will be back in your opponent hand, but you save some time and a removal or a burn spell was use on tidehollow instead of something else. Like you play a playset of Zealous Persecution, tidehollow can have the +1/+1 and you can beat your opponent faster than if you had castigate.
Is Rest in Peace working well? I wouldn't use it to keep an option on Lingering Souls's flashback ability...
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Legacy : RGoblinR Modern BBW SmallpoxB RWBMardu MythBWR UUMerfolkUU
For land option, you can look for Tainted Field or Fetid Heath. Personally, if I have to choose between these both I would prefer Fetid Heath because it helps to produce BB which I something need with my deck.
Fetid Heath also has the fact that it is Modern-legal to recommend it. Tainted Field is not Modern-legal.
What abaout Nevermore as sideck? I destroyed combo decks with it pretty easily
Nevermore 1WW
As Nevermore enters the battlefield name a card.
The named card can't be cast.
And im curious why some people just add 1 Intangible Virtue.. I mean, is a great card, at least add 2.
Nevermore sounds great. Not a lot of people pack enchantment removal, unless they just really want to kill our anthems. I'm putting that in my sideboard to try it out.
Some people use varying amounts of Intangible Virtue and Honor of the Pure depending on what their deck is focused on. More token-focused decks take more Virtue, more creature-focused decks take more HotP.
What do you guys think about Auriok Champion as far as mainboard or sideboard? I know Melissa DeTora seemed to like them mainboard, but they seem kind sideboard-y to me.
For land option, you can look for Tainted Field or Fetid Heath. Personally, if I have to choose between these both I would prefer Fetid Heath because it helps to produce BB which I something need with my deck.
Fetid Heath also has the fact that it is Modern-legal to recommend it. Tainted Field is not Modern-legal.
Oups sorry for that, someone suggest that card at the store... Next time, I double check the info.
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Legacy : RGoblinR Modern BBW SmallpoxB RWBMardu MythBWR UUMerfolkUU
What do you guys think about Auriok Champion as far as mainboard or sideboard?
I started out main decking Auriok Champion, but it was completely dead in too many matchups. Auriok Champion didn't even make my sideboard.
not even having it sideboard is silly. it wins games against burn and most agro builds. I keep it mainboard and its the first thing I side out if im not playing black and/or red.
I feel so helpless playing this deck... I'm always at the mercy of my opponent. Playing against Scapeshift and G/R Tron there's just nothing I can do. They barely feel a discard spell considering one deck plays Snapcaster and the other is just a deck filled with dig spells. The second the game starts I have roughly 5 turns to kill them or I lose the game. Leyline sometimes pushes the limit 1-2 turns until the Scapeshift player gets a bounce spell and then it's just over. And G/R Tron could care less, they just exile it with Karn or smash my face in with Wurmcoil while gaining life putting themselves WAY out of range.
Beating G/R Tron is possible. I did it last week at my LGS! I actually won a game by 1 life point after my opponent had resolved an Emrakul, the Aeons Torn. Burrenton Forge-Tender is a godsend and probably the only reason I won that match-up.
Yeah, I definitely want to at least keep the Auriok Champions sideboarded. Aggro and Burn would be un-winnnable match-ups without her or Leyline of Sanctity.
As much as I like Elspeth Tirel, I find it hard to hit 5 mana. Do you guys have trouble with that?
Hey guys, I'm new to BW tokens. I've pretty much picked up everything except the 2x Fetid Heaths (I guess I'm just gonna have to order them, can't find them around town), and from here I'm working on fine tuning some things. Here's the deal: I really like Bitterblossom. Is a build with BB, Intangible Virtue, and Sorin, Lord of Innistrad truly inferior? If it is, let me know and I'll put the idea out of my head. But it just sounds so good! And talk about shutting off their removal. That'd really give them nothing to hit.
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Hey guys, I'm new to BW tokens. I've pretty much picked up everything except the 2x Fetid Heaths (I guess I'm just gonna have to order them, can't find them around town), and from here I'm working on fine tuning some things. Here's the deal: I really like Bitterblossom. Is a build with BB, Intangible Virtue, and Sorin, Lord of Innistrad truly inferior? If it is, let me know and I'll put the idea out of my head. But it just sounds so good! And talk about shutting off their removal. That'd really give them nothing to hit.
I have actually had quite a bit of success with a Bitterblossom list main decking Auriok Champ and Sorin for lifegain. It definitely plays a lot slower then other lists and is a lot more midrangy because of it. I would not exactly say it is inferior, it is just different.
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What abaout Nevermore as sideck? I destroyed combo decks with it pretty easily
Nevermore 1WW
As Nevermore enters the battlefield name a card.
The named card can't be cast.
And im curious why some people just add 1 Intangible Virtue.. I mean, is a great card, at least add 2.
I am a huge fan of Nevermore. Again, this deck is pretty clogged in the 3 slot so it can make for odd plays. I would recommend Runed Halo as an alternative as it is good in a lot of the same matchups. The major difference is that Nevermore is better in R/G Tron and Runed Halo is better against Mono-U Tron. They both shut down Scapeshift. Nevermore is better against 8-Rack. Runed Halo is technically better against Pod but it doesn't really matter because they can just combo out with Redcap/Finks and then just eventually overrun you. Nevermore at least shuts down Pod if you can get it down fast enough. Either is fine against Twin.
In regards to Intangible vs HotP, as someone else already mentioned, it depends on what your deck runs. HotP is better in decks that run all white creatures. BitterBlossom and Sorin, Lord of Innistrad produce black tokens which is noteworthy. These cards value Intangible over HoTP. If you are not running either of those then HotP helps more of your creatures including Auriok Champion, Tidehollow Sculler, Brimaz, and Hero of Bladehold.
Hey guys, I'm new to BW tokens. I've pretty much picked up everything except the 2x Fetid Heaths (I guess I'm just gonna have to order them, can't find them around town), and from here I'm working on fine tuning some things. Here's the deal: I really like Bitterblossom. Is a build with BB, Intangible Virtue, and Sorin, Lord of Innistrad truly inferior? If it is, let me know and I'll put the idea out of my head. But it just sounds so good! And talk about shutting off their removal. That'd really give them nothing to hit.
I really like Sorin. That being said the fact that his tokens are black makes the rest of the deck really awkward in regards to which anthems you should run. If you are not running any actual creatures then it doesn't really matter. That is usually not the case. The thing is that running Auriok Champion MD to offset the life loss of BB increases the value of HotP. A buffed Auriok Champion is a much larger threat against some decks than you tokens will be. I would say that Bitterblossom + Sorin is not bad but it does make deck building, and playing, very wierd if you are not already used to it.
This deck is all about synergy and maximizing the value you get from each card. Playing black tokens increases the value of Intagible Virtue which simultaneously reduces the value of non-token creatures. The problem with that is Bitterblossom increases the value of Auriok Champion, a non-token creature. The presence of Auriok Champion increases the value of Honor of the Pure. This leads to difficult deck building choices and difficult lines of play. On the flip side running more Honor of the Pure than Intangible Virtue devalues both Bitterblossom and Sorin. Speaking purely from a standpoint of deckbuilding choices, maximizing synergies, and having clearer lines of play, it is best to avoid both Bitterblossom and Sorin. That is at least until there are more token generators that produce non-white tokens. (Waste Not + Thoughtseize + Inquisition of Kozilek?)
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any particular reason i haven't seen token decks running leyline of the meek?
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any particular reason i haven't seen token decks running leyline of the meek?
Doesn't seem very good to me. If it's not in your opening hand, it's half of an Intangible Virtue for double the cost. It also boosts your opponent's tokens. You might be tempted to run a lot to make sure you get one in your hand at the start, but then drawing one after that would be abysmal. So running one or two would be bad, but so would running four. There's just too many issues with it, in my opinion.
Leyline of Sanctity, on the other hand, is so good in the sideboard because if you get it in your opening hand, it's pretty much an auto-win against Burn. Even if you draw into it and have a dead card - who cares? You've pretty much already won.
Teysa, Orzhov Scion in a build with Bitterblossom and Sorin, Lord of Innistrad? Probably bad right because she turns on removal and dies to bolt (also in the highly competitive 3-drop spot for this deck)? At least she can sac herself and a couple of tokens in response to blow up something. Just trying to be creative.
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MODERN: BRGJUNDGRB---BRHOLLOW ONERB---BGELVESGB---BRGLIVING ENDGRB---GWBOGLESWG EDH: BRGKARRTHUS, TYRANT OF JUNDGRB
What abaout Nevermore as sideck? I destroyed combo decks with it pretty easily
Nevermore 1WW
As Nevermore enters the battlefield name a card.
The named card can't be cast.
Nevermore sounds great. Not a lot of people pack enchantment removal, unless they just really want to kill our anthems. I'm putting that in my sideboard to try it out.
I may be missing something, but I feel like Stain the Mind is just bette than Nevermore. They do effectively the same thing, for more-or-less the same cost, but Stain the Mind cannot be bounced or destroyed later on. You get the problem card out of their deck completely, and then don't have to worry about what happens if they deal with your permanent. I guess Nevermore can give them dead draws if they draw the named card, but when I bring in something like that, I'd rather just make sure it works to permanently shut off the problem spell.
Hey guys. I have been using B/W Tokens as my secondary deck to Living End for a long time up until recently. I feel that Living End isn't as good as it used to be with the current meta and decks main boarding [card]Scavenging Ooze[card] and hate filled sideboards. Since 2 weeks ago I have been playing B/W tokens at my LGS and have gone 4-1 each week. This is my current list.
The more I played the deck, the more I disliked Tidehollow Sculler, Elspeth, Knight-Errant and Sorin, Lord of Innistrad. I thought that TS was too slow and was dealt with too early to lead to any real disruption. The planeswalkers were just... slow and I would rather play either Brimaz or HoB in their place.
What abaout Nevermore as sideck? I destroyed combo decks with it pretty easily
Nevermore 1WW
As Nevermore enters the battlefield name a card.
The named card can't be cast.
Nevermore sounds great. Not a lot of people pack enchantment removal, unless they just really want to kill our anthems. I'm putting that in my sideboard to try it out.
I may be missing something, but I feel like Stain the Mind is just bette than Nevermore. They do effectively the same thing, for more-or-less the same cost, but Stain the Mind cannot be bounced or destroyed later on. You get the problem card out of their deck completely, and then don't have to worry about what happens if they deal with your permanent. I guess Nevermore can give them dead draws if they draw the named card, but when I bring in something like that, I'd rather just make sure it works to permanently shut off the problem spell.
Stain the Mind is very much on the list of cards I'm looking forward to trying with this deck. I'm thinking I might try 2 main.
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I play Disenchant : Destroy target artifact or enchantment. Moreover, there is a full art textless of this card that can destabilize for your opponent.
Like said before, you should go ahead with Marsh Flats (and if more fetches are needed Verdant Catacombs or Arid Mesa). That depends if you need more W or B...
I run 4 Flagstone of Trokair in my deck because I haveSmallpox, but if you want cheaper fetches it can help you to reach Godless Shrine or Plains. For land option, you can look for
Tainted Field orFetid Heath. Personally, if I have to choose between these both I would prefer Fetid Heath because it helps to produce BB which I something need with my deck. (smallpox, Liliana of the Veil, Tombstalker…)Finally, I think that Thoughtseize can be play with Tidehollow Sculler if you have enough room for both of them. It depends if you prefer to be more aggro/token or more control. If you have friends that allows you to play with proxies this is the best way to know… Playtesting is the key!
RGoblinR
Modern
BBW SmallpoxB
RWBMardu MythBWR
UUMerfolkUU
Is Rest in Peace working well? I wouldn't use it to keep an option on Lingering Souls's flashback ability...
RGoblinR
Modern
BBW SmallpoxB
RWBMardu MythBWR
UUMerfolkUU
Fetid Heath also has the fact that it is Modern-legal to recommend it. Tainted Field is not Modern-legal.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
Nevermore sounds great. Not a lot of people pack enchantment removal, unless they just really want to kill our anthems. I'm putting that in my sideboard to try it out.
Some people use varying amounts of Intangible Virtue and Honor of the Pure depending on what their deck is focused on. More token-focused decks take more Virtue, more creature-focused decks take more HotP.
What do you guys think about Auriok Champion as far as mainboard or sideboard? I know Melissa DeTora seemed to like them mainboard, but they seem kind sideboard-y to me.
Oups sorry for that, someone suggest that card at the store... Next time, I double check the info.
RGoblinR
Modern
BBW SmallpoxB
RWBMardu MythBWR
UUMerfolkUU
I started out main decking Auriok Champion, but it was completely dead in too many matchups. Auriok Champion didn't even make my sideboard.
WBB/W TokensWB
WUBAd NauseamWUB
- Commander
WG Captain Sisay's LegendsWG
not even having it sideboard is silly. it wins games against burn and most agro builds. I keep it mainboard and its the first thing I side out if im not playing black and/or red.
Beating G/R Tron is possible. I did it last week at my LGS! I actually won a game by 1 life point after my opponent had resolved an Emrakul, the Aeons Torn. Burrenton Forge-Tender is a godsend and probably the only reason I won that match-up.
Yeah, I definitely want to at least keep the Auriok Champions sideboarded. Aggro and Burn would be un-winnnable match-ups without her or Leyline of Sanctity.
As much as I like Elspeth Tirel, I find it hard to hit 5 mana. Do you guys have trouble with that?
BRGJUNDGRB---BRHOLLOW ONERB---BGELVESGB---BRGLIVING ENDGRB---GWBOGLESWG
EDH:
BRGKARRTHUS, TYRANT OF JUNDGRB
WBB/W TokensWB
WUBAd NauseamWUB
- Commander
WG Captain Sisay's LegendsWG
I have actually had quite a bit of success with a Bitterblossom list main decking Auriok Champ and Sorin for lifegain. It definitely plays a lot slower then other lists and is a lot more midrangy because of it. I would not exactly say it is inferior, it is just different.
I am a huge fan of Nevermore. Again, this deck is pretty clogged in the 3 slot so it can make for odd plays. I would recommend Runed Halo as an alternative as it is good in a lot of the same matchups. The major difference is that Nevermore is better in R/G Tron and Runed Halo is better against Mono-U Tron. They both shut down Scapeshift. Nevermore is better against 8-Rack. Runed Halo is technically better against Pod but it doesn't really matter because they can just combo out with Redcap/Finks and then just eventually overrun you. Nevermore at least shuts down Pod if you can get it down fast enough. Either is fine against Twin.
In regards to Intangible vs HotP, as someone else already mentioned, it depends on what your deck runs. HotP is better in decks that run all white creatures. BitterBlossom and Sorin, Lord of Innistrad produce black tokens which is noteworthy. These cards value Intangible over HoTP. If you are not running either of those then HotP helps more of your creatures including Auriok Champion, Tidehollow Sculler, Brimaz, and Hero of Bladehold.
I really like Sorin. That being said the fact that his tokens are black makes the rest of the deck really awkward in regards to which anthems you should run. If you are not running any actual creatures then it doesn't really matter. That is usually not the case. The thing is that running Auriok Champion MD to offset the life loss of BB increases the value of HotP. A buffed Auriok Champion is a much larger threat against some decks than you tokens will be. I would say that Bitterblossom + Sorin is not bad but it does make deck building, and playing, very wierd if you are not already used to it.
This deck is all about synergy and maximizing the value you get from each card. Playing black tokens increases the value of Intagible Virtue which simultaneously reduces the value of non-token creatures. The problem with that is Bitterblossom increases the value of Auriok Champion, a non-token creature. The presence of Auriok Champion increases the value of Honor of the Pure. This leads to difficult deck building choices and difficult lines of play. On the flip side running more Honor of the Pure than Intangible Virtue devalues both Bitterblossom and Sorin. Speaking purely from a standpoint of deckbuilding choices, maximizing synergies, and having clearer lines of play, it is best to avoid both Bitterblossom and Sorin. That is at least until there are more token generators that produce non-white tokens. (Waste Not + Thoughtseize + Inquisition of Kozilek?)
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Doesn't seem very good to me. If it's not in your opening hand, it's half of an Intangible Virtue for double the cost. It also boosts your opponent's tokens. You might be tempted to run a lot to make sure you get one in your hand at the start, but then drawing one after that would be abysmal. So running one or two would be bad, but so would running four. There's just too many issues with it, in my opinion.
Leyline of Sanctity, on the other hand, is so good in the sideboard because if you get it in your opening hand, it's pretty much an auto-win against Burn. Even if you draw into it and have a dead card - who cares? You've pretty much already won.
BRGJUNDGRB---BRHOLLOW ONERB---BGELVESGB---BRGLIVING ENDGRB---GWBOGLESWG
EDH:
BRGKARRTHUS, TYRANT OF JUNDGRB
It is a win-more card, you have to have tokens out to make it work
I may be missing something, but I feel like Stain the Mind is just bette than Nevermore. They do effectively the same thing, for more-or-less the same cost, but Stain the Mind cannot be bounced or destroyed later on. You get the problem card out of their deck completely, and then don't have to worry about what happens if they deal with your permanent. I guess Nevermore can give them dead draws if they draw the named card, but when I bring in something like that, I'd rather just make sure it works to permanently shut off the problem spell.
4 Marsh Flats
4 Godless Shrine
2 Isolated Chapel
2 Fetid Heath
2 Windbrisk Heights
1 Vault of the Archangel
4 Plains
3 Swamp
Creatures
3 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
2 Hero of Bladehold
4 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Path To Exile
4 Raise the Alarm
4 Zealous Persecution
3 Honor of the Pure
3 Intangible Virtue
4 Lingering Souls
4 Spectral Procession
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
3 Auriok Champion
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 Torpor Orb
1 Rule of Law
2 Mortify
The more I played the deck, the more I disliked Tidehollow Sculler, Elspeth, Knight-Errant and Sorin, Lord of Innistrad. I thought that TS was too slow and was dealt with too early to lead to any real disruption. The planeswalkers were just... slow and I would rather play either Brimaz or HoB in their place.
I know the SB needs some work. Probably gonna add Surgical Extraction which has great synergy with Thoughtseize and IoK.
Mainboard I am feel like dropping down to 3 of for Raise the Alarm and Zealous Persecution and maybe adding Ajani Goldmane.
Thoughts? Thanks everyone.
Bogles / BW Tokens / Skred Red
Legacy
Burn
Pauper
Songs of the Damned / Elves
Commander
Lin Sivvi
Stain the Mind is very much on the list of cards I'm looking forward to trying with this deck. I'm thinking I might try 2 main.