Lectrys: Have you tried the UWR approach? Throw in a couple of Spell Pierces and you might be able to beat them at their own (tempo) game. Beating down with Young Pyromancer tokens + flying 2/2 lands and then burn them to death might be a decent plan b.
I too was wondering about sylvan carytid. Hexproof does seem key, it's true.
It may just be that UWR and Jund are just plain bad matchups. I was kinda expecting them to be, as our engine is very fragile to simple creature removal and abrupt decay/remand are perfect for taking out an ascendancy. I feel like the strength of this deck will come against other opponents, such as
Affinity
Tron
Boggles
Scapeshift
Maybe
Melira Pod? Hatebears?
Anything that we can beat with speed (Tron, Scapeshift) or that doesn't run that much relevant disruption to keep us off winning on turn 4-5 seems quite winnable. Interestingly, even thalia doesn't seem so bad compared to traditional storm-like decks. you just need 1 additional elf analogue.
How did merfolk work out for you? It seems like it would be a pretty easy matchup.
Past in flames does seem like an excellent card to keep the engine going. I will definitely have to try that.
After a few more games (this time against RG Tron), I'm starting to think that the primary cantrip Wish target needs to be really cheap. (If it wasn't for me freshly looting into another cantrip in hand, I would've been 1 mana short of Esper Charm in one test because Glittering Wish was my only noncreature spell in hand.) I'm starting to think these are options:
Bound // Determined: Better, you can Wish for this, then try to hold it up or fish out counterspells by casting Determined first.
I'm now torn between Bound // Determined, Deadshot Minotaur, and Scarscale Ritual.
I'm starting to think that Keranos is a better Wish alt win con than Sigarda is. Keranos may be a slower clock, but he's even harder to get rid of than Sigarda is. RG Tron NEEDS Karn or Eldrazi or they can't get rid of him, and Keranos actually disrupts Pod. Keranos can't get past a Spellskite, though.
I'm also torn about whether Aurelia's Fury should be cut from contention as the Wish dedicated win con. On the one hand, it's another way to disrupt UR Storm (especially for non-Slaughter Games players). On the other hand, it's the meatiest Dispel target in the nation, and I will be leaning on the dedicated win con against Twin.
@ Lectrys: I think it's awesome how you have such a fast turn around on getting real testing for wacky ideas during spoiler season. I do wonder what list you're using though, because it seems like there are a lot of potential routes and it isn't obvious what would be good from theory crafting. Do you usually lose because you're short on mana or cards?
Scarscale Ritual seems pretty good, especially with caryatid. Abrubt Decay really ruins our day, to the point I wonder about Spellskite or Imp's Miscief. Safewright Quest is pretty easy to cast, lets you see an extra card like the cyclers, gives you a card to discard next time, and untaps your dudes. Going really deep in the tank, Pact of Negation protects us while going off, nets as much mana as possible, and triggers the loot. Angel's Grace would be less useless than usual in this deck in case you fizzle.
If you'll indulge my Magical Christmas landing for a moment:
T1: Stomping Ground, Utopia Sprawl
T2: land, Ascendancy
T4: land, Replicate Siege of Towers, replicate targets the sprawled land, you end up with two untapped mana (one of any color), and three per trigger
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I primarily play limited, so most of my spoiler season comments view cards through that lens.
Retraction Helix has been gaining interest in Standard for its ability to interact with Jeskai Ascendancy. Throw in a zero drop, and you can go infinite.
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Vive, vale. Siquid novisti rectius istis,
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
~~~~~
I recently switched to 3 Caryatids after finding that it was easier to stick Ascendancy than mana dorks against a lot of decks. Caryatid feels so broken against fair decks.
Then again, I still fizzle somewhat often (maybe 20-25% of the time) so I have to swing with 7/8's, so maybe 3 Caryatids are too many...also, BoP and Hierarch are awesome when I keep 1-land hands.
I also did get the Turn 2 nuts in testing against Burn. It felt great...except for Wind Zendikoning a Mana Confluence and going down to what would normally be Bolt range. Luckily, I found Abundant Growth in time and burnt them out.
I'm often pushed back a crucial turn by not having enough mana (Wind Zendikon won't untap its land, Manamorphose and Glittering Wish cost 2 mana). Mid-combo, I usually fizzle by not drawing cantrips.
There was one test game where Wish into Scarscale Ritual was my only card in hand, so thank goodness for the extra draw...until I still fizzled.
As for card choices...
I'm on a primarily fetch-shock mana base because Wind Zendikon hates being on rainbow lands. The black shock is Watery Grave because it actually can help cast Ascendancy. Horizon Csnopy is here to cantrip in a pinch.
Wind Zendikon has been awesome. I can safely combo off on only one mana dork because I know Wind Zendikon will hastily deliver, and the looting has been great. I tend to reserve Zendikon for the combo turn, so I prefer it over the more expensive Lifespark Spellbomb. I generally put Zendikon on Breeding Pool because it taps for blue cantrips and Manamorphose. Zendikon forces RG Tron to have the Oblivion Stone (so does Caryatid).
I like real cantrips. I don't like Summoner's Pact. It finds summoning sick dorks. The real cantrips help find dorks and Ascendancy pretty well, especially post-fizzle.
I'm running only 3 Treasure Cruise because they're only good mid- to late-game (or mid-combo). I prefer Cruise over Dig Through Time becsuse I often combo with only one dork. Abundant Growth is the flex cantrip because I want to cast Slaughter Games. (Being crucial in the Turn 2 win is a nice bonus.)
The dedicated win con is currently Clan Defiance because it's a sorcery that's not hosed by Spellskite and that is easy on the colours. I might switch to Debt to the Deathless because it costs less mana, but the mana fixing might kick me in the butt sometime...
I tried Keranos against Jund, and he couldn't save me because he couldn't block or kill Goyf. Back to Sigarda for me.
Drain the Well is for Tron, although I might not need it. It's castable off green mana only, which is neat. Wheel of Sun and Moon should be OK graveyard hate.
Slaughter Games has been fantastic and well worth splashing black for. It singlehandedly ruins Ad Nauseam's hopes of winning, and it screws over Storm in Game 1. I think it'll do well against Scapeshift. I generally hit the proper colours on time for it, although Twin screws up my colours bad.
Since my cantrips are mainly blue, Kiora's Follower is my Wish dork of choice.
Fiery Justice should be good against aggro and Pod, although I haven't tried it yet. Similarly, Fracturing Gust should kick Affinity and Bogle butt, though it's also untested.
Detention Sphere being castable off Bant colours is nice, although I suspect Tron will boot it sometime and screw me over.
I'm toying with Captured Sunlight as the life gain target after I wanted a life gain noncreature spell during that Turn 2 win. Cascade digging for the combo should also be swell.
Burn should generally be raceable...but Eidolon of the Great Revel generally hands me a game loss. I need to take 4 damage to kill that guy.
Cool. I really wish I had the money for the manabase to test this myself once KTK hits MTGO. I guess the allied fetches should be pretty affordable, and a good investment, so I might just go for it anyway.
I do have a few questions that you are uniquely well positioned to answer. General
How often do you have to wish for Ascendancy? It seems like a build that just cantrips for it would be faster and easier to go off with as long as you didn't fizzle too often because you just didn't find one.
Do you usually go off the turn directly after playing ascendancy? How often is it the same, or two+ after?
How often do you go off with 1/2/3/4/4+ mana per ascendency trigger? Does it change a lot while you go off?
Specific
Have you tried Bloom Tender any? It's slow and fragile, but it just gives you so much mana in matchups where it can live. Maybe a sideboard card for uninteractive matches.
If Zendikon has been so good, how would Fatestitcher compare? They die to the same removal, but Fatestitcher:
costs 1 fewer effective mana by being hasty
Doesn't reduce your hand size by one
Doesn't let you see an extra card mid-combo
Has to be put into the graveyard somehow
Could Lifespark be useful as Zendikons 5-X? If you have 1 to spar any turn before you go off it has the same cost on the combo turn (while not looting), but it helps with mid-combo fizzling.
Do Faithless Looting or PiF seem worth testing to solve the fizzle issue? If not, why?
Would Crimson Wisps have been useful in any of your games?
Edit: Ooh, one more. Do you ever find yourself with enough mana to wish for/ play a second ascendancy? It seems really hard to fizzle from there.
Edit 2: How much do you think View From Above would slow down deployment? Auto winning from 2 dorks is obviously a large benefit. In fact, view is almost certainly just better than PiF here.
If we go the Fatesticher route, Commune with the Gods might be a decent tutor and an all-around way to set things up. It might even make it possible to run 4 Treasure Cruises. Another way to make the deck stop fizzle is adding Life from the Loam, works wonders with Commune too. Could throw in a singleton Conflagrate as an alternative win condition, if you can't get passed the opponents blockers.
4 Faithless Looting
4 Treasure Cruise
4 Commune with the Gods
4 Jeskai Ascendancy
3-4 Life from the Loam
0-1 Conflagrate
This leaves us with app. 8-12 flex spots
Could be a controling approach with a plan b:
3 Seismic Assault
2 Lightning Bolt
4 Remand
Or an explossive Approach:
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Serum visions
4 Birds/Sylvan
Or something entirely different.
I like the GY theme since it (probably) lets us cut down on some of the cards. The Loam engine both helps the deck
against fizzling but also finds all of the Stichers. Commune does a lot of works (on paper). It bins Sticher and Loam,
if finds Ascendancy and it fuels Treasure Cruise.
I don't know. Could be worth exploring?
EDIT: actually screw Conflagrate. We have Flame Jab. Also works pre-combo
Cool. I really wish I had the money for the manabase to test this myself once KTK hits MTGO. I guess the allied fetches should be pretty affordable, and a good investment, so I might just go for it anyway.
I do have a few questions that you are uniquely well positioned to answer. General
How often do you have to wish for Ascendancy? It seems like a build that just cantrips for it would be faster and easier to go off with as long as you didn't fizzle too often because you just didn't find one.
Do you usually go off the turn directly after playing ascendancy? How often is it the same, or two+ after?
How often do you go off with 1/2/3/4/4+ mana per ascendency trigger? Does it change a lot while you go off?
Specific
Have you tried Bloom Tender any? It's slow and fragile, but it just gives you so much mana in matchups where it can live. Maybe a sideboard card for uninteractive matches.
If Zendikon has been so good, how would Fatestitcher compare? They die to the same removal, but Fatestitcher:
costs 1 fewer effective mana by being hasty
Doesn't reduce your hand size by one
Doesn't let you see an extra card mid-combo
Has to be put into the graveyard somehow
Could Lifespark be useful as Zendikons 5-X? If you have 1 to spar any turn before you go off it has the same cost on the combo turn (while not looting), but it helps with mid-combo fizzling.
Do Faithless Looting or PiF seem worth testing to solve the fizzle issue? If not, why?
Would Crimson Wisps have been useful in any of your games?
Edit: Ooh, one more. Do you ever find yourself with enough mana to wish for/ play a second ascendancy? It seems really hard to fizzle from there.
Edit 2: How much do you think View From Above would slow down deployment? Auto winning from 2 dorks is obviously a large benefit. In fact, view is almost certainly just better than PiF here.
I have to Wish for Ascendancy for racing purposes fairly often. If I suspect the match-up will be an absolute grinder, I Wish for Sigarda instead. If Eidolon of the Great Revel has my number, I Wish for removal and cry.
Just like the Standard version, I aim for and tend to go off on the same turn I resolve Ascendancy. Sometimes, I have to go off one turn later. If they interrupt the combo early, I tend to spend 2+ turns trying to collect combo fuel before I can go off again. If I fizzle, I can often try again next turn.
I tend to go off with 1-2 mana per Ascendancy trigger. Obviously, this changes a lot as soon as I stick Wind Zendikon.
I haven't tried Bloom Tender yet, but I'd play 4 Hierarchs and 4 Caryatids before it. Hierarch gives me a faster speed gain (more keepable 1-land hands, more Turn 2-3 combos), has Exalted, and reliably taps for blue mana, and Caryatid has Hexproof in a generally removal-infested meta.
I doubt I'd like Fatestitcher. I need to discard it, it can't block fliers if I fizzle, and it can't loot when cast (which has helped mid-combo with Zendikon). Lifespark Spellbomb might be useful as Zendikons 5+--heck, it might be more reliable than mana dorks. Not being able to ramp occasionally hurts, though, and the 2 mana may also hurt me. I might pull Hierarch for a Spellbomb, though...
As long as I play Delve draw spells, I don't think Past in Flames will help solve fizzling issues. I tend to exile my entire yard with the first Treasure Cruise. It's also very expensive pre-combo. I don't like card disadvantage, so I'd rather not test Faithless Looting. In fact, I'd rather test Izzet Charm to screw Eidolon, nerf combo, and loot mid-combo.
Crimson Wisps might have helped me combo off in some games, but being forced to discard lands first mid-combo and not being that useful (and needing targets) while digging for the combo will probably hurt me in more games.
I've sometimes played a second Ascendancy mid-combo, and it looting is a nice bonus. I don't tend to Wish for it mid-combo, though. It's definitely easier to win games where I stick 2+ Ascendancies--making twice the mana and looting twice per spell is that good. I even stuck a third one once.
I'm not fond of View from Above because it doesn't help me dig for dorks or the combo. It's like maindecking Grapeshot.
For Wishable mana dorks, how good would Hydroform be? Hasty mana dorks are awesome, but needing to combo off with 5 mana and a Gitaxian Probe, 6 mana, or sticking Ascendancy the turn before blows. It's not that useful if I'm comboing off with only one dork--heck, I'd rather Wish for Ascendancy #2--so maybe I'll just stick with Kiora's Follower...
I think I'll switch to Debt to the Deathless. Costing less mana likely helps, not targeting helps, and not getting hosed by Angel's Grace helps. (I might switch removal so Patrician's Scorn doesn't mega-hose me if they used to have Phyrexian Unlife.)
Any thoughts on Mass Hysteria? It lets you start the combo with a single dork and dig for the second, can keep you from fizzling if they bolt one of your dorks mid-combo, and if nothing else, it's only a single mana and so always pay for itself in untaps. I can see that otherwise it could be a dead card, though...
Mass hyteria and Loam seem pretty interesting. Loam won't go infinite unless you have a way of refilling your graveyard though (one of PiF solves this issue).
I think my first build of this deck (unless there's some sort of consensus by then), may eschew boltable mana creature entirely, trying to play Ascendancy one turn and then go off with full mana and some hasty dorks the next. Something like:
Unless you have a way to shuffle the GY into the deck (like Emrakul) there's no way to go infinite with either approach. But Loam does let you loot/dredge through your whole deck.
- play Loam (targeting 1-3 lands)
- Untap your dudes (needs 2)
- Loot (dredge another Loam in your grave and discard one of the lands you've returned to your hand)
Rinse and repeat
With Flame Jab you can do do something like this
- play Loam
- Untap your dudes
- Loot (discard a random card)
- Retrace Flame Jab
- Untap your dudes
- Loot (dredge Loam and discard a random card)
And now you can either Retrace Flame Jab again or play Loam
Only problem with this approach is if you run out of cards in your deck before you're able to deal lethal. I don't think that it's gonna come up a lot according to my (bad) math, but there's probably ways to tweak it so that it's not an issue.
View from Above goes infinite. So does Sprout Swarm, but it's basically just a worse View. The looting is optional, so Flame Jab+Loam will deal ~1 damage per card in deck, which almost certainly makes it the kill of choice in loam version because it can also kill things early game. Getting hit by graveyard hate is pretty lame though, but a lot of plans which give you a bunch more gas without going infinite have that issue.
Edit Actually around 2 damage per 3 cards because of the discard.
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I primarily play limited, so most of my spoiler season comments view cards through that lens.
The Sylvan Caryatid version of my deck feels so much better. It now regularly combos off against Jund--they need disruption and Goyf (or huge disruption and Liliana, or bad luck on my end) or I will get Caryatid and Ascendancy together, and they will win the game for me. I've even comboed off through removal on the first Wind Zendikon (with only Caryatid initially out).
The deck also hasn't lost that much of its speed--Burn can often still be raced as long as they don't slam Eidolon of the Great Revel, and I often find Slaughter Games fast enough against Ad Nauseam and Scapeshift. (I definitely get Turn 3 Slaughter Games and Turn 3 Sigarda less often, though.)
Speaking of Ad Nauseam, they fold to Slaughter Games as expected, but they put up a really good fight. I once killed them through them Pact of Negationing Debt to the Deathless while they had Phyrexian Unlife out, then Angel's Grace during combat. (I used my last Glittering Wish on Debt--I wanted to minimize the chances I got hosed by Angel's Grace.) Yup, Ascendancy pump and Wind Zendikons got there the rest of the way.
And yep, Debt to the Deathless is probably my finisher of choice now. The colours are surprisingly easy to get, being cheaper has been clutch once against Jund (Clan Defiance wouldn't kill), not targeting (or being hosed by Spellskite) has been swell, not being hosed by Angel's Grace helps, and not being counterable by Dispel also helps.
Lifespark Spellbomb has turned out to be a cantrip more often than a hasty mana dork so far. The cantrip has been clutch twice so far, though!
After the further Burn tests, I think I'll switch Captured Sunlight to Lightning Helix. Helix should hose Zoo just as hard, and being 1 mana cheaper than Maelstrom Pulse could have saved my butt against Eidolon once.
The Wish Caryatid version feels surprisingly powerful and good in the general Modern meta. It can actually combo off against fair decks, it can race Burn, and it screws over other combo decks pretty fast. I need to test more against Pod (though I predict they're worse than Twin against me), but Ascendancy Storm might make a genuine splash in Modern as a surprisingly resilient "all-in" combo deck that isn't as weak to graveyard hate, Leylines, or Eidolons as UR Storm is! Heck, its nuts combo goes off on Turn 2 more often than Storm's does!
I think this is including BoP which is simply great. 1 mana, produces all colors, flies in for a harder to block win. Plus 3-4 Wind Zendikon as mid-combo additional untappable dorks that also triggers ascendancy. And a single additional multicolored dork in the sideboard as a wish target if necessary to get going.
So more like 10-13 mana dorks depending on how you count.
I tested some more against RG Tron, Faeries, and Affinity today to determine whether I should keep some Glittering Wish bullets. I determined that I race Affinity often enough and I'm better off racing Tron, so the LD slot and Fracturing Gust are out. The jury on the anti-counterspells bullet is still out--I had an earlier game where that bullet could have helped, but I got Wish torn out of my hand and a Turn 2 Ascendancy (on the play, so I knew I had to stick Ascendancy that turn) into Turn 3 win in the test games. I don't know whether Bound // Determined or Vexing Shusher (or even Voice of Resurgence, as the Fae notoriously cannot handle a resolved one) is the best.
Wish Ascendancy Storm feels like the best combo deck no one is playing right now. It's like the love child of Legacy TES and Modern UR Storm. I comboed off on Turn 2 again today (vs. UR Storm), and I've comboed off through Qasali Pridemage from Melira Pod. And I think my Scapeshift match-up is better than UR Storm's. When they Turn 2 Pyromancer Ascension, Cryptic Command can still bounce and stop that. When I Turn 2 Wish for Slaughter Games, they lose on Turns 3-4. And I combo off on Turn 2 more often than they do.
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It may just be that UWR and Jund are just plain bad matchups. I was kinda expecting them to be, as our engine is very fragile to simple creature removal and abrupt decay/remand are perfect for taking out an ascendancy. I feel like the strength of this deck will come against other opponents, such as
Affinity
Tron
Boggles
Scapeshift
Maybe
Melira Pod? Hatebears?
Anything that we can beat with speed (Tron, Scapeshift) or that doesn't run that much relevant disruption to keep us off winning on turn 4-5 seems quite winnable. Interestingly, even thalia doesn't seem so bad compared to traditional storm-like decks. you just need 1 additional elf analogue.
How did merfolk work out for you? It seems like it would be a pretty easy matchup.
Past in flames does seem like an excellent card to keep the engine going. I will definitely have to try that.
I'm starting to think that Keranos is a better Wish alt win con than Sigarda is. Keranos may be a slower clock, but he's even harder to get rid of than Sigarda is. RG Tron NEEDS Karn or Eldrazi or they can't get rid of him, and Keranos actually disrupts Pod. Keranos can't get past a Spellskite, though.
I'm also torn about whether Aurelia's Fury should be cut from contention as the Wish dedicated win con. On the one hand, it's another way to disrupt UR Storm (especially for non-Slaughter Games players). On the other hand, it's the meatiest Dispel target in the nation, and I will be leaning on the dedicated win con against Twin.
Scarscale Ritual seems pretty good, especially with caryatid. Abrubt Decay really ruins our day, to the point I wonder about Spellskite or Imp's Miscief. Safewright Quest is pretty easy to cast, lets you see an extra card like the cyclers, gives you a card to discard next time, and untaps your dudes. Going really deep in the tank, Pact of Negation protects us while going off, nets as much mana as possible, and triggers the loot. Angel's Grace would be less useless than usual in this deck in case you fizzle.
On a more general note for the deck, Joraga Treespeaker and Devoted Druid are the only non-Bloom Tender creatures in modern to tap for multiple mana per spell. Lifespark Spellbomb has some pros and cons compared to Wind Zendikon, but I think I like it better overall. It might give enough redundancy to make a Utopia Sprawl/Fertile Ground/Arbor Elf/Fatestitcher focused version an interesting possibility to explore. Super extra wacky bonus points go to Siege of Towers, which only replicates for a net cost of 1 if you stack the triggers correctly.
If you'll indulge my Magical Christmas landing for a moment:
T1: Stomping Ground, Utopia Sprawl
T2: land, Ascendancy
T4: land, Replicate Siege of Towers, replicate targets the sprawled land, you end up with two untapped mana (one of any color), and three per trigger
Interested in Custom Card Creation.
My Cube:Cardinal Custom Cube
A custom version of a third modern masters: MM2019
(filter->rarity to see in set rarity).
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
~~~~~
1 Horizon Canopy
2 Mana Confluence
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Flooded Strand
3 Breeding Pool
1 Temple Garden
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Stomping Ground
1 Steam Vents
1 Watery Grave
1 Forest
1 Island
4 Birds of Paradise
1 Noble Hierarch
3 Sylvan Caryatid
Spells
4 Glittering Wish
3 Jeskai Ascendancy
4 Wind Zendikon
4 Serum Visions
4 Sleight of Hand
4 Manamorphose
4 Gitaxian Probe
1 Abundant Growth
3 Treasure Cruise
1 Jeskai Ascendancy
1 Detention Sphere
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
1 Kiora's Follower
1 Fiery Justice
1 Slaughter Games
1 Fracturing Gust
1 Clan Defiance
1 Drain the Well
1 Scarscale Ritual
1 Captured Sunlight
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
2 Swan Song
1 Spellskite
I recently switched to 3 Caryatids after finding that it was easier to stick Ascendancy than mana dorks against a lot of decks. Caryatid feels so broken against fair decks.
Then again, I still fizzle somewhat often (maybe 20-25% of the time) so I have to swing with 7/8's, so maybe 3 Caryatids are too many...also, BoP and Hierarch are awesome when I keep 1-land hands.
I also did get the Turn 2 nuts in testing against Burn. It felt great...except for Wind Zendikoning a Mana Confluence and going down to what would normally be Bolt range. Luckily, I found Abundant Growth in time and burnt them out.
I'm often pushed back a crucial turn by not having enough mana (Wind Zendikon won't untap its land, Manamorphose and Glittering Wish cost 2 mana). Mid-combo, I usually fizzle by not drawing cantrips.
There was one test game where Wish into Scarscale Ritual was my only card in hand, so thank goodness for the extra draw...until I still fizzled.
As for card choices...
I'm on a primarily fetch-shock mana base because Wind Zendikon hates being on rainbow lands. The black shock is Watery Grave because it actually can help cast Ascendancy. Horizon Csnopy is here to cantrip in a pinch.
Wind Zendikon has been awesome. I can safely combo off on only one mana dork because I know Wind Zendikon will hastily deliver, and the looting has been great. I tend to reserve Zendikon for the combo turn, so I prefer it over the more expensive Lifespark Spellbomb. I generally put Zendikon on Breeding Pool because it taps for blue cantrips and Manamorphose. Zendikon forces RG Tron to have the Oblivion Stone (so does Caryatid).
I like real cantrips. I don't like Summoner's Pact. It finds summoning sick dorks. The real cantrips help find dorks and Ascendancy pretty well, especially post-fizzle.
I'm running only 3 Treasure Cruise because they're only good mid- to late-game (or mid-combo). I prefer Cruise over Dig Through Time becsuse I often combo with only one dork. Abundant Growth is the flex cantrip because I want to cast Slaughter Games. (Being crucial in the Turn 2 win is a nice bonus.)
The dedicated win con is currently Clan Defiance because it's a sorcery that's not hosed by Spellskite and that is easy on the colours. I might switch to Debt to the Deathless because it costs less mana, but the mana fixing might kick me in the butt sometime...
I tried Keranos against Jund, and he couldn't save me because he couldn't block or kill Goyf. Back to Sigarda for me.
Drain the Well is for Tron, although I might not need it. It's castable off green mana only, which is neat. Wheel of Sun and Moon should be OK graveyard hate.
Slaughter Games has been fantastic and well worth splashing black for. It singlehandedly ruins Ad Nauseam's hopes of winning, and it screws over Storm in Game 1. I think it'll do well against Scapeshift. I generally hit the proper colours on time for it, although Twin screws up my colours bad.
Since my cantrips are mainly blue, Kiora's Follower is my Wish dork of choice.
Fiery Justice should be good against aggro and Pod, although I haven't tried it yet. Similarly, Fracturing Gust should kick Affinity and Bogle butt, though it's also untested.
Detention Sphere being castable off Bant colours is nice, although I suspect Tron will boot it sometime and screw me over.
I'm toying with Captured Sunlight as the life gain target after I wanted a life gain noncreature spell during that Turn 2 win. Cascade digging for the combo should also be swell.
Burn should generally be raceable...but Eidolon of the Great Revel generally hands me a game loss. I need to take 4 damage to kill that guy.
I do have a few questions that you are uniquely well positioned to answer.
General
How often do you have to wish for Ascendancy? It seems like a build that just cantrips for it would be faster and easier to go off with as long as you didn't fizzle too often because you just didn't find one.
Do you usually go off the turn directly after playing ascendancy? How often is it the same, or two+ after?
How often do you go off with 1/2/3/4/4+ mana per ascendency trigger? Does it change a lot while you go off?
Specific
Have you tried Bloom Tender any? It's slow and fragile, but it just gives you so much mana in matchups where it can live. Maybe a sideboard card for uninteractive matches.
If Zendikon has been so good, how would Fatestitcher compare? They die to the same removal, but Fatestitcher:
costs 1 fewer effective mana by being hasty
Doesn't reduce your hand size by one
Doesn't let you see an extra card mid-combo
Has to be put into the graveyard somehow
Could Lifespark be useful as Zendikons 5-X? If you have 1 to spar any turn before you go off it has the same cost on the combo turn (while not looting), but it helps with mid-combo fizzling.
Do Faithless Looting or PiF seem worth testing to solve the fizzle issue? If not, why?
Would Crimson Wisps have been useful in any of your games?
Edit: Ooh, one more. Do you ever find yourself with enough mana to wish for/ play a second ascendancy? It seems really hard to fizzle from there.
Edit 2: How much do you think View From Above would slow down deployment? Auto winning from 2 dorks is obviously a large benefit. In fact, view is almost certainly just better than PiF here.
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My Cube:Cardinal Custom Cube
A custom version of a third modern masters: MM2019
(filter->rarity to see in set rarity).
To Arms! is an overcosted wisp.
4 Sylvan Caryatid/Birds of Paradise
4 Fatesticher
4 Faithless Looting
4 Treasure Cruise
4 Commune with the Gods
4 Jeskai Ascendancy
3-4 Life from the Loam
0-1 Conflagrate
This leaves us with app. 8-12 flex spots
Could be a controling approach with a plan b:
3 Seismic Assault
2 Lightning Bolt
4 Remand
Or an explossive Approach:
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Serum visions
4 Birds/Sylvan
Or something entirely different.
I like the GY theme since it (probably) lets us cut down on some of the cards. The Loam engine both helps the deck
against fizzling but also finds all of the Stichers. Commune does a lot of works (on paper). It bins Sticher and Loam,
if finds Ascendancy and it fuels Treasure Cruise.
I don't know. Could be worth exploring?
EDIT: actually screw Conflagrate. We have Flame Jab. Also works pre-combo
4 Fatestitcher
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Faithless Looting
4 Treasure Cruise
4 Commune with the Gods
4 Life from the Loam
3 Flame Jab
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Kessig Wolf Run
23 Other lands
I have to Wish for Ascendancy for racing purposes fairly often. If I suspect the match-up will be an absolute grinder, I Wish for Sigarda instead. If Eidolon of the Great Revel has my number, I Wish for removal and cry.
Just like the Standard version, I aim for and tend to go off on the same turn I resolve Ascendancy. Sometimes, I have to go off one turn later. If they interrupt the combo early, I tend to spend 2+ turns trying to collect combo fuel before I can go off again. If I fizzle, I can often try again next turn.
I tend to go off with 1-2 mana per Ascendancy trigger. Obviously, this changes a lot as soon as I stick Wind Zendikon.
I haven't tried Bloom Tender yet, but I'd play 4 Hierarchs and 4 Caryatids before it. Hierarch gives me a faster speed gain (more keepable 1-land hands, more Turn 2-3 combos), has Exalted, and reliably taps for blue mana, and Caryatid has Hexproof in a generally removal-infested meta.
I doubt I'd like Fatestitcher. I need to discard it, it can't block fliers if I fizzle, and it can't loot when cast (which has helped mid-combo with Zendikon). Lifespark Spellbomb might be useful as Zendikons 5+--heck, it might be more reliable than mana dorks. Not being able to ramp occasionally hurts, though, and the 2 mana may also hurt me. I might pull Hierarch for a Spellbomb, though...
As long as I play Delve draw spells, I don't think Past in Flames will help solve fizzling issues. I tend to exile my entire yard with the first Treasure Cruise. It's also very expensive pre-combo. I don't like card disadvantage, so I'd rather not test Faithless Looting. In fact, I'd rather test Izzet Charm to screw Eidolon, nerf combo, and loot mid-combo.
Crimson Wisps might have helped me combo off in some games, but being forced to discard lands first mid-combo and not being that useful (and needing targets) while digging for the combo will probably hurt me in more games.
I've sometimes played a second Ascendancy mid-combo, and it looting is a nice bonus. I don't tend to Wish for it mid-combo, though. It's definitely easier to win games where I stick 2+ Ascendancies--making twice the mana and looting twice per spell is that good. I even stuck a third one once.
I'm not fond of View from Above because it doesn't help me dig for dorks or the combo. It's like maindecking Grapeshot.
For Wishable mana dorks, how good would Hydroform be? Hasty mana dorks are awesome, but needing to combo off with 5 mana and a Gitaxian Probe, 6 mana, or sticking Ascendancy the turn before blows. It's not that useful if I'm comboing off with only one dork--heck, I'd rather Wish for Ascendancy #2--so maybe I'll just stick with Kiora's Follower...
I think I'll switch to Debt to the Deathless. Costing less mana likely helps, not targeting helps, and not getting hosed by Angel's Grace helps. (I might switch removal so Patrician's Scorn doesn't mega-hose me if they used to have Phyrexian Unlife.)
Modern - UG Mana Denial GU
. . . . . . .
WBG Melira Pod GBWCommander - BR Olivia Voldaren RB Vampire Tribal
. . . . . . . . . WUB Sharuum the Hegemon BUW Not-Broken Artifact Midrange
. . . . . . . . . WUG Rafiq of the Many GUW Voltron
. . . . . . . . . . .UB Oona, Queen of the Fae BU No-combo Tempo-Mill
. . . . . . . . . WUB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic BUW Pillow Fort
I think my first build of this deck (unless there's some sort of consensus by then), may eschew boltable mana creature entirely, trying to play Ascendancy one turn and then go off with full mana and some hasty dorks the next. Something like:
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Wind Zendikon
1 Lifespark Spellbomb
4 Fatestitcher
3 Commune with the Gods
1 Past in Flames
4 Jeskai Ascendancy
4 Serum Visions
4 Sleight of Hand
3 Gitaxian Probe
12 Fetches
8 Land
Interested in Custom Card Creation.
My Cube:Cardinal Custom Cube
A custom version of a third modern masters: MM2019
(filter->rarity to see in set rarity).
- play Loam (targeting 1-3 lands)
- Untap your dudes (needs 2)
- Loot (dredge another Loam in your grave and discard one of the lands you've returned to your hand)
Rinse and repeat
With Flame Jab you can do do something like this
- play Loam
- Untap your dudes
- Loot (discard a random card)
- Retrace Flame Jab
- Untap your dudes
- Loot (dredge Loam and discard a random card)
And now you can either Retrace Flame Jab again or play Loam
Only problem with this approach is if you run out of cards in your deck before you're able to deal lethal. I don't think that it's gonna come up a lot according to my (bad) math, but there's probably ways to tweak it so that it's not an issue.
Edit Actually around 2 damage per 3 cards because of the discard.
Interested in Custom Card Creation.
My Cube:Cardinal Custom Cube
A custom version of a third modern masters: MM2019
(filter->rarity to see in set rarity).
The deck also hasn't lost that much of its speed--Burn can often still be raced as long as they don't slam Eidolon of the Great Revel, and I often find Slaughter Games fast enough against Ad Nauseam and Scapeshift. (I definitely get Turn 3 Slaughter Games and Turn 3 Sigarda less often, though.)
Speaking of Ad Nauseam, they fold to Slaughter Games as expected, but they put up a really good fight. I once killed them through them Pact of Negationing Debt to the Deathless while they had Phyrexian Unlife out, then Angel's Grace during combat. (I used my last Glittering Wish on Debt--I wanted to minimize the chances I got hosed by Angel's Grace.) Yup, Ascendancy pump and Wind Zendikons got there the rest of the way.
And yep, Debt to the Deathless is probably my finisher of choice now. The colours are surprisingly easy to get, being cheaper has been clutch once against Jund (Clan Defiance wouldn't kill), not targeting (or being hosed by Spellskite) has been swell, not being hosed by Angel's Grace helps, and not being counterable by Dispel also helps.
Lifespark Spellbomb has turned out to be a cantrip more often than a hasty mana dork so far. The cantrip has been clutch twice so far, though!
After the further Burn tests, I think I'll switch Captured Sunlight to Lightning Helix. Helix should hose Zoo just as hard, and being 1 mana cheaper than Maelstrom Pulse could have saved my butt against Eidolon once.
The Wish Caryatid version feels surprisingly powerful and good in the general Modern meta. It can actually combo off against fair decks, it can race Burn, and it screws over other combo decks pretty fast. I need to test more against Pod (though I predict they're worse than Twin against me), but Ascendancy Storm might make a genuine splash in Modern as a surprisingly resilient "all-in" combo deck that isn't as weak to graveyard hate, Leylines, or Eidolons as UR Storm is! Heck, its nuts combo goes off on Turn 2 more often than Storm's does!
Interested in Custom Card Creation.
My Cube:Cardinal Custom Cube
A custom version of a third modern masters: MM2019
(filter->rarity to see in set rarity).
So more like 10-13 mana dorks depending on how you count.
Wish Ascendancy Storm feels like the best combo deck no one is playing right now. It's like the love child of Legacy TES and Modern UR Storm. I comboed off on Turn 2 again today (vs. UR Storm), and I've comboed off through Qasali Pridemage from Melira Pod. And I think my Scapeshift match-up is better than UR Storm's. When they Turn 2 Pyromancer Ascension, Cryptic Command can still bounce and stop that. When I Turn 2 Wish for Slaughter Games, they lose on Turns 3-4. And I combo off on Turn 2 more often than they do.