@EvilOverlord: you're very welcome to come say hi on Tezz's AoB thread if you wanna diversify your sources. We have quite a couple of Rack adepts among us and some could probably offer some relevant input on stuff.
I'd have to second Destroyer on. Ensnaring Bridge does so much work in this deck. Meaning that that work will have to instead get taken up by your removal. Even when you can discard your entire hand, you're soft to topdecks. You might even want to cut 2 Despise for 2 Funeral Charms.
@Noobix_Cuvbe: I've never played with Bitterblossom, but pack rat is a beast. It takes so practice but you can play around your bridges with rat. You have a lot more flexibility with Pack Rat, from what I can see. Also, Rat helps keep your hand low when you need to post up behind the bridge. Obviously you can do that by hitting yourself with discard, assuming you're opponent is hell-bent, but I'd rather throw those cards to pack rat. Even if that means they're too big to attack, you can typically get rid of the bridge so you can alpha-strike.
My gut say Bitterblossom will be able to dig you out of more situations and works better with an Ensnaring Bridge that is stalling the game.
Pack rat will dominate an opponent that had all their cards ripped out of their hand. aka finish an already won game.
Pack rat does give you something to do w/ lands 4+ that is nice. However by T4 you have a 56% chance of drawing a Raven's crime (if you are playing 4). So most of the time your extra lands will just be a raven's crime.
Thoughts?
I believe that in the old thread they decided on rat because it made bad matchups good whereas Bitterblosom would drain them of life in a slow game. I'm no master but Pack Rat has served me well so far.
Looks like a pretty tight list. However, I worry about 20 swamps, even with just 4 3 drops. I also run the Stompy primer; the deck has has a very similar curve to yours (maybe even the same one) and I feel much more comfortable with 22 land there. I also worry about only 2 removal spells with no Bridge; I feel like you want 4. It's hard to find room but I'd start with -2 Despise +2 Swamp, or -2 Despise +1 Victim of Night +1 Slaughter Pact (or +2 Victim).
Lol, I actually followed you there from here. I'm the guy who suggested Melira, Elvish Hexhunter, and Pithing Needle, remember me (y i so nub)? But yeah, the land seems good so far, and I probably should get more removal. When I build more of a sideboard I'll switch -2 Despise +2 Bile Blight or a Slaughter Pact if I can get my hands on one. Despise is doing ok in the meantime. I'll also at that point drop the other two Despise for land. Thanks for the advice!
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Thanks guys. I'm getting to work now on a new primer; will probably have it or at least the foundation done within the next few days.
Jinxer, did you see my edit about missing four cards? Also, you need 2x Despise 2x Duress main.
0_o My siblings spilled my deck recently, and some things might have been lost. I'll add cards ASAP maybe +1 Waste Not +2 Swamp +1 other card until I get Pact. BTW you seem to be on a lot, what's your timezone? Thanks for the tip on Despise/Duress.
Primer foundation is done. I'll fill out the missing sections and flesh out some things tonight/tomorrow. Lots to come. Also, now's the time to suggest for consideration anything you want to see in the primer.
Thanks guys. I'm getting to work now on a new primer; will probably have it or at least the foundation done within the next few days.
Jinxer, did you see my edit about missing four cards? Also, you need 2x Despise 2x Duress main.
0_o My siblings spilled my deck recently, and some things might have been lost. I'll add cards ASAP maybe +1 Waste Not +2 Swamp +1 other card until I get Pact. BTW you seem to be on a lot, what's your timezone? Thanks for the tip on Despise/Duress.
I would just add the 2x Swamp 2x removal. I don't see room for Waste Not in this build, although it would certainly be nice to have one.
Yes I'm on a lot. I work from home and I have kids so I'm afforded a lot of time for this sort of thing. My timezone is PST.
I don't post much here, mostly a lurker I suppose, but I don't look at the forum for like a week and the old thread has been shut down and rob is gone? What the hell did I miss? o.O
Anyway, the real reason I'm posting (and I may be late to the party here, but I didn't see a post about it) is this: http:// mtgstocks.com /decks/78618. (I'm not even allowed to post links yet if that tells you how often I post in here lol) Not sure how many players were in this, and its probably not a big deal, but I saw that 8rack made top 8 in a tourney this recently and got excited and figured I'd share it.
Side note: I actually like the way that @epserino goes about disagreeing with people in this thread. I feel like his arguments are fairly well thought out and explained very well and I don't see them as a reason to be put on thin ice...
Edit: I just looked at the primer and it looks solid. I guess you've already got everything I mentioned, haha.
Hey man, I feel like we should have a spot for what Esperino's findings on splashes. Not necessarily saying that they should be advocated for in the primer or anything, but it's something that people often ask about.
I think having a very solid list of what's good about the deck, and why it does what it does would help steer the conversation in the right direction too. Like racks are there because they're non-interactive and much more consistent than creature win-cons. The discard is needed to stall your opponent. Such and such cards are there because we're often out of cards and need a constant source of discard. I think having a solid foundation of what the deck needs to do would be helpful.
Also, any opinions/insight you've got on matchups would be helpful, too. I think the deck can be tough to get used to and involves a lot of decisions. Having a guide to help set people in the right direction when playing it would be good.
Thanks for taking up the primer, by the way. You're experience is greatly appreciated.
I don't post much here, mostly a lurker I suppose, but I don't look at the forum for like a week and the old thread has been shut down and rob is gone? What the hell did I miss? o.O
Anyway, the real reason I'm posting (and I may be late to the party here, but I didn't see a post about it) is this: http:// mtgstocks.com /decks/78618. (I'm not even allowed to post links yet if that tells you how often I post in here lol) Not sure how many players were in this, and its probably not a big deal, but I saw that 8rack made top 8 in a tourney this recently and got excited and figured I'd share it.
Side note: I actually like the way that @epserino goes about disagreeing with people in this thread. I feel like his arguments are fairly well thought out and explained very well and I don't see them as a reason to be put on thin ice...
There was a lot of arguing about good vs bad ideas, discussion on decks that may or may not be true 8Rack decks, etc. It'd been happening on and off for weeks, perhaps longer, and was devolving into constant flame wars and such. MemoryLapse got fed up and deleted the thread. He isn't 100% gone in that he's replying to PMs about the deck and may start a primer elsewhere. Myself and the mods plan to do our best to make sure it never gets like that again.
That's nice, although the tourney name and lack of player count make me wonder about its merits. If you can get me more info I'd be more willing to consider adding it to the primer.
You need to read all of his replies, and more closely, and also read over the previous thread and his replies in it. Then you will understand why his approach is potentially a big problem. He is definitely an intelligent guy with a lot to bring to the table, but he often sabotages himself with how he interacts with people. I think we can meet at least halfway and make everyone happy; I'd sure like his insight around, and for people to consider it (all of it), as they do others.
Edit: I just looked at the primer and it looks solid.
Hey man, I feel like we should have a spot for what Esperino's findings on splashes. Not necessarily saying that they should be advocated for in the primer or anything, but it's something that people often ask about.
I think having a very solid list of what's good about the deck, and why it does what it does would help steer the conversation in the right direction too. Like racks are there because they're non-interactive and much more consistent than creature win-cons. The discard is needed to stall your opponent. Such and such cards are there because we're often out of cards and need a constant source of discard. I think having a solid foundation of what the deck needs to do would be helpful.
Also, any opinions/insight you've got on matchups would be helpful, too. I think the deck can be tough to get used to and involves a lot of decisions. Having a guide to help set people in the right direction when playing it would be good.
Thanks for taking up the primer, by the way. You're experience is greatly appreciated.
I agree entirely. I plan to add them all in some form to the primer.
The card choices and options sections will mostly take care of that goal. See my Stompy primer for what I'm after there (8Rack is less straightforward though, so I'll cover more cards and be more in-depth). The rest I can work into the intro. Good ideas.
For the matchups section, I may or may not take a lot from the previous writeups on that. We'll see. Either way I have plenty to offer on that front. I may also have a tips and tricks section, because there are a ton of intricacies I know now I wish I knew when I started.
Thanks. I really do think the matchups sections - when it's read thoroughly - should be the place to quell the majority of useless spin-offs. I really think mono-black plays well, and I've come to appreciate the card selection more and more. I'll keep my handful or abrupt decays and maelstrom pulses, but I've been having better results keeping the list closer to mono-black. When you're misplaying against a deck, I think it's very easy to try to fix "problems" that aren't necessarily there. It's a part of growing as a player in general, and growing to learn how to play a specific deck. An informative matchups sections and knowing what the deck wants to do will get people started off well.
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That's what everyone says once they test the different versions thoroughly.
Again, I agree entirely, and good ideas. I've talked a lot about working within the limitations of the deck, and I believe monoblack is one of them, as is 3 cmc. Although some cards we'd get from splashing would be useful, I don't feel like the deck is in dire need of them / has no good way of dealing with the targets for them in monoblack, and the benefits of staying monoblack are bigger than most appreciate. I've done well to make the most of my options and plays within the limitations, and it's paid off. Others can do the same, although it takes a lot of practice. I'll touch on all of this and more in the primer.
All that said, I'm definitely open to a splash list that improves the deck overall, although we may need cards not yet printed for that to happen.
Alright, it appears that this will be the final thread and we'll go from here, no?
In that case, I'd like to post a couple of lists I've developed over the past year to perhaps be taken into consideration for the Primer. It'd be also nice if there was an official "splashes" section. I know I'm long overdue with the red one but as it seems we've settled down here and I'll be posting it today.
This deck was specifically designed to handle Tron at the time it was prevalent where I play. 5 out of 8 people were playing Tron variants and since, historically speaking, this deck has been something like our archnemesis (especially RG), I wanted something that made the match favourable, not merely bringing it to 50/50. Needless to say, it got the job done.
It's a completely reactive build with a reduced number of lands for increased removal (which pretty much has to be Downfall because Karn is just as much of a threat to us as are O-Stone and Wormcoil.. This means we usually get 4-5 lands in play instead of the normal 3-4. That's because the missing land leads to reduced land draws, which leads to reduced Raven's Crime efficiency, which means we can get more lands into play to be more interactive with the board each turn.
You see Mindbreak Trap in the side. That's because without the dominant hand pressure Crime provides us with, we are now less favoured in the Storm match and I don't want that to happen. That does, of course, mean that we are lacking on hate against Pod, but this build isn't "competitive" and was specifically designed to handle Tron anyway, so I found it "OK" to not be as good against Pod. Games are still winnable though, with the 8Rack core. The Swords you see are there to allow you to turn this reactive strategy into a proactive one if you feel the need to. In any event, it's not to be taken seriously but I just wanted to put it out there if somebody finds themselves in a Tron-heavy meta (which is unlikely) because it obliterates them (see what I did there?). It's called Yawgmoth's Last Will because I would imagine that's what he left us to defeat The Legacy.
This is the red splash I playtested. I'm really hoping it makes it to the "official splashes list" if there ever is such a thing. It includes Bolt in the mainboard to give the deck a little bit of extra reach and overall raw power with one of the format's most dominant cards.
This build is very proactive. You are looking to play your normal 8Rack game and nobody can stop you. Lightning Bolt doubles up as removal and burn, helping you "get there" in both scenarios. The ability to hit walkers without paying 3 mana for Hero's Downfall is really relevant (although it doesn't kill Karn). This version, too, has a reduced number of lands, but this time it's because we have a significantly lower curve than the normal 8Rack - one less Bridge and our removal has went from 2 CMC to 1. I'll talk at large about it in the post I'll dedicate to it (with playtest results).
As for the sideboard, we make use of Blood Moon, which shuts down 3-coloured decks and Rakdos Charm, which serves triple purpose - graveyard hate, extra removal against Affinity and a way to punish board-swarming strategies, such as combos that flood the battlefield like Twin, Storm and Kiki (which, by the way, are some of the most dominant decks). Include Pod's combo finish in there and you have yourself the entire Modern metagame, give or take. One more card than can be considered here is Slaughter Games (replacing Darkblast, we already have so much removal against Affinity), however in my humble opinion it's not a great card. It takes 4 mana to play and doesn't interact with the board. However it's very good at what it does and should be considered if that's an interaction you want.
(with one small change that I'd like to keep for myself. I am really sorry about that, but I plan on taking it to paper events next year and while it's unlikely we meet, I'd like to have the upper hand when possible. At some point if people haven't figured it out I'll post it)
It's a proactive strategy, that's pretty clear. I continue to stick to Bitterblossom and haven't been disappointed. Especially in the Tron match, it helps a lot. Other than that, key things you can note are the increased number of removal spells. It's my way of bringing the curve a little lower (it's widely known that if you take a Bridge out you either have to compensate with more spot removal or stronger board presence... I did both) and so far this deck has been performing better than anything else I've seen. I keep it "creatureless" and you'd be surprised how tough it is for people to deal with that. The rising popularity of BGx has hurt me but the rest of the deck still prevails over them. I don't have "strictly bad/losing matchups", yet I admit I am not as dominant in other areas you guys are, with your Pack Rats and whatnot. Either way, this is the way I like to play - interactive Magic, where every game is a true battle. Stomping or being stomped isn't fun.
Moving on from that little rant. The sideboard is tailored to play against different archetypes, rather than specific decks. Damnation is pretty damn good (oh come on, that was a nice one) and I often find myself siding it even against Pod. Grafdigger's, Surgical and Darkblast are self-explanatory at this point, I feel. The Swords serve the same purpose as in my Tronbuster build, they allow me to go on a midrange beatdown plan. Equipped on flyers, they can be very strong. I don't have the white-black one because with tokens I'm not afraid of Path to Exile, it's as simple as that.
If you really don't want to use Bitterblossom, Tomstalker has been very successful for me, too. We tend to fill our graveyard extremely quickly (helped a lot by Raven's Crime or Darkmor's Dredge if need be) so it's most often a 5/5 flyer for BB. That line of play, however, requires you to only run him out once you've dried out the opponent's hand of removal and you are still vulnerable to topdecks.
So, that's all I have for now. I'm off to write my long overdue red splash thingy and then move on to another colour. Probably green, since it's been discussed at large and the reason the old thread shut down can be traced back to a particular BG build (not unincluding LftL, I might add). Destroyer, keep at it and let me know if you need something tested or a "custom-tailored" build made (I play a lot of Magic and have the opportunity to test things at a large scale and in a small but very competitive environment with most of the format's "best" deck).
Yes, final thread, and yes, there will definitely be a splashes section. I'll probably just end up pasting all your hard work into it (haha), with a little intro from me, and of course credit to you.
Thanks. Looking forward it. I really appreciate the work; it's sorely needed.
@Noobix_Cube: pack rat 100% in my opinion. I've tested both and I have loved Rat. It's synergy with mutavault cant be understated. It puts extra pressure on the opponent, and it definitely won me games in Indy. People mention the "nonbo" with ensnaring brige, however I was never upset with having both. I would hold 1 or 2 cards then attack and discard mid-attack to "pump" my attacking rats. Also, once your rats are too big for you to ever swing it makes it nearly impossible for your opponent to remove bridge because they have an army of rats waiting.
I found the life lost from bitterblossom to be too real of an issue, and it just never compared to rats in my testing.
I have to get ready for work, but if you have more questions about the two like their play in certain match ups or something let me know. I 'll respond when I can with what I've found in my experience.
Also just so people know I can't always make it to my LGS, and will to try and improve that. I'll see if I can proxy some decks like pod, tron, and rock. Would that help?
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@Noobix_Cuvbe: I've never played with Bitterblossom, but pack rat is a beast. It takes so practice but you can play around your bridges with rat. You have a lot more flexibility with Pack Rat, from what I can see. Also, Rat helps keep your hand low when you need to post up behind the bridge. Obviously you can do that by hitting yourself with discard, assuming you're opponent is hell-bent, but I'd rather throw those cards to pack rat. Even if that means they're too big to attack, you can typically get rid of the bridge so you can alpha-strike.
R8whackR
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I believe that in the old thread they decided on rat because it made bad matchups good whereas Bitterblosom would drain them of life in a slow game. I'm no master but Pack Rat has served me well so far.
Lol, I actually followed you there from here. I'm the guy who suggested Melira, Elvish Hexhunter, and Pithing Needle, remember me (y i so nub)? But yeah, the land seems good so far, and I probably should get more removal. When I build more of a sideboard I'll switch -2 Despise +2 Bile Blight or a Slaughter Pact if I can get my hands on one. Despise is doing ok in the meantime. I'll also at that point drop the other two Despise for land. Thanks for the advice!
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Jinxer, did you see my edit about missing four cards? Also, you need 2x Despise 2x Duress main.
0_o My siblings spilled my deck recently, and some things might have been lost. I'll add cards ASAP maybe +1 Waste Not +2 Swamp +1 other card until I get Pact. BTW you seem to be on a lot, what's your timezone? Thanks for the tip on Despise/Duress.
I would just add the 2x Swamp 2x removal. I don't see room for Waste Not in this build, although it would certainly be nice to have one.
Yes I'm on a lot. I work from home and I have kids so I'm afforded a lot of time for this sort of thing. My timezone is PST.
I'll be testing Cut as well.
Anyway, the real reason I'm posting (and I may be late to the party here, but I didn't see a post about it) is this: http:// mtgstocks.com /decks/78618. (I'm not even allowed to post links yet if that tells you how often I post in here lol) Not sure how many players were in this, and its probably not a big deal, but I saw that 8rack made top 8 in a tourney this recently and got excited and figured I'd share it.
Side note: I actually like the way that @epserino goes about disagreeing with people in this thread. I feel like his arguments are fairly well thought out and explained very well and I don't see them as a reason to be put on thin ice...
Hey man, I feel like we should have a spot for what Esperino's findings on splashes. Not necessarily saying that they should be advocated for in the primer or anything, but it's something that people often ask about.
I think having a very solid list of what's good about the deck, and why it does what it does would help steer the conversation in the right direction too. Like racks are there because they're non-interactive and much more consistent than creature win-cons. The discard is needed to stall your opponent. Such and such cards are there because we're often out of cards and need a constant source of discard. I think having a solid foundation of what the deck needs to do would be helpful.
Also, any opinions/insight you've got on matchups would be helpful, too. I think the deck can be tough to get used to and involves a lot of decisions. Having a guide to help set people in the right direction when playing it would be good.
Thanks for taking up the primer, by the way. You're experience is greatly appreciated.
R8whackR
WUBGAtraxa Stax-Superfriends *Under Construction*WUBG
There was a lot of arguing about good vs bad ideas, discussion on decks that may or may not be true 8Rack decks, etc. It'd been happening on and off for weeks, perhaps longer, and was devolving into constant flame wars and such. MemoryLapse got fed up and deleted the thread. He isn't 100% gone in that he's replying to PMs about the deck and may start a primer elsewhere. Myself and the mods plan to do our best to make sure it never gets like that again.
That's nice, although the tourney name and lack of player count make me wonder about its merits. If you can get me more info I'd be more willing to consider adding it to the primer.
You need to read all of his replies, and more closely, and also read over the previous thread and his replies in it. Then you will understand why his approach is potentially a big problem. He is definitely an intelligent guy with a lot to bring to the table, but he often sabotages himself with how he interacts with people. I think we can meet at least halfway and make everyone happy; I'd sure like his insight around, and for people to consider it (all of it), as they do others.
I agree entirely. I plan to add them all in some form to the primer.
The card choices and options sections will mostly take care of that goal. See my Stompy primer for what I'm after there (8Rack is less straightforward though, so I'll cover more cards and be more in-depth). The rest I can work into the intro. Good ideas.
For the matchups section, I may or may not take a lot from the previous writeups on that. We'll see. Either way I have plenty to offer on that front. I may also have a tips and tricks section, because there are a ton of intricacies I know now I wish I knew when I started.
Thanks!
R8whackR
WUBGAtraxa Stax-Superfriends *Under Construction*WUBG
Again, I agree entirely, and good ideas. I've talked a lot about working within the limitations of the deck, and I believe monoblack is one of them, as is 3 cmc. Although some cards we'd get from splashing would be useful, I don't feel like the deck is in dire need of them / has no good way of dealing with the targets for them in monoblack, and the benefits of staying monoblack are bigger than most appreciate. I've done well to make the most of my options and plays within the limitations, and it's paid off. Others can do the same, although it takes a lot of practice. I'll touch on all of this and more in the primer.
All that said, I'm definitely open to a splash list that improves the deck overall, although we may need cards not yet printed for that to happen.
In that case, I'd like to post a couple of lists I've developed over the past year to perhaps be taken into consideration for the Primer. It'd be also nice if there was an official "splashes" section. I know I'm long overdue with the red one but as it seems we've settled down here and I'll be posting it today.
12x Swamp
4x Wrench Mind
4x Thoughtseize
4x The Rack
4x Raven's Crime
4x Ghost Quarter
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Ensnaring Bridge
4x Shrieking Affliction
4x Liliana of the Veil
1x Slaughter Pact
3x Spellskite
3x Hero's Downfall
1x Dakmor Salvage
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
4 Surgical Extraction
3 Mindbreak Trap
3 Pithing Needle
3 Darkblast
This deck was specifically designed to handle Tron at the time it was prevalent where I play. 5 out of 8 people were playing Tron variants and since, historically speaking, this deck has been something like our archnemesis (especially RG), I wanted something that made the match favourable, not merely bringing it to 50/50. Needless to say, it got the job done.
It's a completely reactive build with a reduced number of lands for increased removal (which pretty much has to be Downfall because Karn is just as much of a threat to us as are O-Stone and Wormcoil.. This means we usually get 4-5 lands in play instead of the normal 3-4. That's because the missing land leads to reduced land draws, which leads to reduced Raven's Crime efficiency, which means we can get more lands into play to be more interactive with the board each turn.
You see Mindbreak Trap in the side. That's because without the dominant hand pressure Crime provides us with, we are now less favoured in the Storm match and I don't want that to happen. That does, of course, mean that we are lacking on hate against Pod, but this build isn't "competitive" and was specifically designed to handle Tron anyway, so I found it "OK" to not be as good against Pod. Games are still winnable though, with the 8Rack core. The Swords you see are there to allow you to turn this reactive strategy into a proactive one if you feel the need to. In any event, it's not to be taken seriously but I just wanted to put it out there if somebody finds themselves in a Tron-heavy meta (which is unlikely) because it obliterates them (see what I did there?). It's called Yawgmoth's Last Will because I would imagine that's what he left us to defeat The Legacy.
4x Bloodstained Mire
1x Dakmor Salvage
3x Ensnaring Bridge
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Liliana of the Veil
1x Mountain
4x Mutavault
3x Pack Rat
4x Raven's Crime
4x Shrieking Affliction
1x Slaughter Pact
5x Swamp
4x The Rack
4x Thoughtseize
4x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4x Wrench Mind
2x Blood Moon
2x Darkblast
1x Ensnaring Bridge
3x Grafdigger's Cage
3x Rakdos Charm
4x Surgical Extraction
This is the red splash I playtested. I'm really hoping it makes it to the "official splashes list" if there ever is such a thing. It includes Bolt in the mainboard to give the deck a little bit of extra reach and overall raw power with one of the format's most dominant cards.
This build is very proactive. You are looking to play your normal 8Rack game and nobody can stop you. Lightning Bolt doubles up as removal and burn, helping you "get there" in both scenarios. The ability to hit walkers without paying 3 mana for Hero's Downfall is really relevant (although it doesn't kill Karn). This version, too, has a reduced number of lands, but this time it's because we have a significantly lower curve than the normal 8Rack - one less Bridge and our removal has went from 2 CMC to 1. I'll talk at large about it in the post I'll dedicate to it (with playtest results).
As for the sideboard, we make use of Blood Moon, which shuts down 3-coloured decks and Rakdos Charm, which serves triple purpose - graveyard hate, extra removal against Affinity and a way to punish board-swarming strategies, such as combos that flood the battlefield like Twin, Storm and Kiki (which, by the way, are some of the most dominant decks). Include Pod's combo finish in there and you have yourself the entire Modern metagame, give or take. One more card than can be considered here is Slaughter Games (replacing Darkblast, we already have so much removal against Affinity), however in my humble opinion it's not a great card. It takes 4 mana to play and doesn't interact with the board. However it's very good at what it does and should be considered if that's an interaction you want.
12x Swamp
4x Wrench Mind
4x Thoughtseize
4x Raven's Crime
4x Shrieking Affliction
4x The Rack
3x Mutavault
4x Liliana of the Veil
1x Slaughter Pact
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
3x Bitterblossom
3x Victim of Night
1x Ghost Quarter
3x Ensnaring Bridge
2x Dakmor Salvage
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Darkblast
3 Damnation
This is the deck that I use.
It's a proactive strategy, that's pretty clear. I continue to stick to Bitterblossom and haven't been disappointed. Especially in the Tron match, it helps a lot. Other than that, key things you can note are the increased number of removal spells. It's my way of bringing the curve a little lower (it's widely known that if you take a Bridge out you either have to compensate with more spot removal or stronger board presence... I did both) and so far this deck has been performing better than anything else I've seen. I keep it "creatureless" and you'd be surprised how tough it is for people to deal with that. The rising popularity of BGx has hurt me but the rest of the deck still prevails over them. I don't have "strictly bad/losing matchups", yet I admit I am not as dominant in other areas you guys are, with your Pack Rats and whatnot. Either way, this is the way I like to play - interactive Magic, where every game is a true battle. Stomping or being stomped isn't fun.
Moving on from that little rant. The sideboard is tailored to play against different archetypes, rather than specific decks. Damnation is pretty damn good (oh come on, that was a nice one) and I often find myself siding it even against Pod. Grafdigger's, Surgical and Darkblast are self-explanatory at this point, I feel. The Swords serve the same purpose as in my Tronbuster build, they allow me to go on a midrange beatdown plan. Equipped on flyers, they can be very strong. I don't have the white-black one because with tokens I'm not afraid of Path to Exile, it's as simple as that.
If you really don't want to use Bitterblossom, Tomstalker has been very successful for me, too. We tend to fill our graveyard extremely quickly (helped a lot by Raven's Crime or Darkmor's Dredge if need be) so it's most often a 5/5 flyer for BB. That line of play, however, requires you to only run him out once you've dried out the opponent's hand of removal and you are still vulnerable to topdecks.
So, that's all I have for now. I'm off to write my long overdue red splash thingy and then move on to another colour. Probably green, since it's been discussed at large and the reason the old thread shut down can be traced back to a particular BG build (not unincluding LftL, I might add). Destroyer, keep at it and let me know if you need something tested or a "custom-tailored" build made (I play a lot of Magic and have the opportunity to test things at a large scale and in a small but very competitive environment with most of the format's "best" deck).
Thanks. Looking forward it. I really appreciate the work; it's sorely needed.
I'll take a closer look at your lists tomorrow.
I found the life lost from bitterblossom to be too real of an issue, and it just never compared to rats in my testing.
I have to get ready for work, but if you have more questions about the two like their play in certain match ups or something let me know. I 'll respond when I can with what I've found in my experience.
Also just so people know I can't always make it to my LGS, and will to try and improve that. I'll see if I can proxy some decks like pod, tron, and rock. Would that help?