I've been flip flopping between two and three. I did respectably in 2 man queues and dailies on modo with my list running two, but when I included exarch, I went up to three because I want to be able to combo more reliably. Still, I've been finding that three seems a little excessive even so.
Also, how have you guys been doing vs jund? The combination of confidant, bigger creatures and tons of removal has been tough for me. Jund charm is especially nasty. I've only recently buckled down and purchased a sigarda, but does anyone else have any thoughts?
Aggressively go for the Angel Chain (I detailed it on Page 1) against Jund. Jund can't handle one Restoration Angel very well, let alone multiple Res Angels. Don't combo off unless you have plenty of back-up or they have no cards in hand. Try sandbagging Res Angels in hand until your stuff starts eating removal, then blink them with Res Angel in response.
Jund Charm is rather messy, though--the version I test against (against myself) currently doesn't run it, but that card is definitely a nasty piece of work. Make sure you play Wall of Roots if you face enough Jund.
I'd recommend sideboarding in Thalias; forcing Liliana OTV and Maelstrom Pulse to cost 4 mana has been fairly good.
I don't have as much trouble against the current Jund build I'm testing against because it doesn't have Jund Charm and I play 2 Huntmaster of the Fells, 1 Zealous Conscripts, 1 Knight of the Reliquary, and 1 Thalia (pulling 2 Kiki-Jikis to make room for everything), but your mileage may vary. (Conscripts is hilarious if played early enough, especially if she's blinked by Restoration Angel. I tend to kidnap Goyfs with her, but Goyfs are enough, and Jund generally can't recover from the tempo loss.)
What are people's thoughts on Zealous Conscripts here? I see it's in Lectrys's build but I haven't seen much love for it elsewhere. I know it's a five but I'm running it over the 4th Kiki-Jiki and it has done some cool stuff. It's a combo piece at a 3rd cmc and can randomly win games by itself, for example I stole an Emrakul earlier today. He used Goryo's Vengeance but had to do it at Sorcery speed because he was Thoughtseizing himself. Even if most of the other ways to cheat him in "cast" him or do it at instant speed, there is still Chord. Stealing Emrakul is obviously the dream scenario but there are lots of nice things to grab with Conscripts. Also if you get to pod Redcap you just win (pod for Conscripts, untap Pod, pod for Kiki). There are a number of other tricks you can do with him as well.
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Standard: Humanimator
Modern: Jund, Wafo-Tapa UWR
Legacy: Witch-Maw Stoneblade
EDH: Ruhan of the Fomori, Hazezon Tamar, Maga, Traitor to Mortals
I can def seeing going down to 3 Kiki and trying out a Conscripts. Like Exarch, it does give you the "I win" out of no where and it can do some dumb things like stealing Karn's, Emmy's, ect ect. I will have to try it out.
Very true about te pod interactions, I forgot about that. I'll definitely be replacing my 3rd Kiki with her. I should really get a list up here. I'll post it when I'm not typing on my phone.
Ya i think i just got converted. I forgot that Conscripts also wins with Kiki-Jiki so if u have a pod and only redcap, u can pod into conscripts, untap pod, pod into Kiki-Jiki, and win...
Ok I'm doing that now
EDIT: HOLY **** IT GETS AROUND GHOSTLY PRISON EFFECTS! AND GIDEON! AND OTHER STUFF!
The last Conscripts doesn't have to untap kiki-jiki. it can steal w/e is hindering u from winning!
With Zealous Conscripts, you can also steal opposing Kiki-Jikis and combo off with them (pretty fun if you had to stop the other guy's combo with Combust). You can also combo off while your own Kiki-Jiki has been stolen by Vedalken Shackles.
Unfortunately, due to her mana cost, I'd rather pull her than Village Bell-Ringer if I need to make room for more hate bears (or I'm boarding for Game 2--Conscripts is useless against UR Storm), but she is pretty hilarious.
Wow, I thought that ghoslty prison will be an issue but you just demosntrate there are 2 way to go around it quite efficently.
Therfore I guess the only card really affecting us is torptor orb (yes we have quasali pridemage)
How fast do you usually combo of ?
one thing i liked with melira pod was that you could go off quite early since your key card have a cc of 1 2 or 3 and not 5 like this deck.
If u have a finks and an angel in play, along with a pod, u actually just win. U pod angel into conscripts, untap pod, pod finks into angel, bounce conscripts, pod angel into Kiki-jiki and just combo off.
Conscripts can untap a land if u have 5 mana, conscripts and angel And pod angel into Kiki-jiki and win
Little stuff like that just help to make the card better than It already is
You can add me to the group that didn't notice that the conscripts can combo off... The worst part is that they were in my main for the locally common tron match up and to snipe off various other threats.
On the topic of how fast do I tend to go off? Not very is the best way to put it. While it doesn't have the same immediacy of a classic combo deck, I tend to pace myself similarly. Many games I don't even "go off.". It's less useful by the day, but when I first started playing the deck I would often avoid showing my combo in the first game in deference to just laying down the beats when I didn't feel pressure to go infinite. As far as the difference between melira and this deck goes...
Melira requires 3 creatures with a low curve, but it's difficult to pod into a viscera seer. So you need a higher cc sac outlet or to have one honestly. With Kiki you can get value on each of your pods all the way up to the combo.
Normally comboing off is my go to plan actually. I haven't won by damage if i see a Pod. If i see a pod my brain automatically switches to how can i combo off. With Conscripts this added a new dimension.
I dont know if that means im playing the deck wrong or right but i've goldfished turn4 kills routinely. Now, if i see a hand with dork pod finks, i just laugh because i can win on turn 4 if my opponent (like a lot of people) dont realise how conscripts works!
i've actually had a conscripts resolve while i had Kiki-Jiki in play when the guy had a leak because he's like "ok steal my land?" and i said "nope i win?" and he rage quit after i showed him
Edit: I just goldfished like 40 hands. Over 25 of them were turn 4 wins. Almost 30/40 I was goldfishing turn 4 wins.
Yeah those are good examples of the sweet Conscripts interactions I was talking about. Lots of ways to combo out of nowhere and you can just randomly steal an Eldrazi/Wurmcoil/Karn ftw against Tron or just swing races way in your favor. Stealing something and podding it it sweet, as is stealing a walker (stealing a Lili at 2 against Jund who had just one 'Goyf to block was sweet). Yesterday I had two pods and Angel in play against RG Tron, podded angel into Conscripts stealing Wurmcoil, swung for a bunch then podded the Wurmcoil. Failed to find obviously but still a blowout since I got the tokens.
I've been thinking of testing a 1-of Sun Titan, is that just too much? Getting back Finks, Wall, Pridemage, Bell-Ringer or Geist if you run them is sweet and podding straight from 4 into Titan (through Conscripts) can be a big game. Titan returning Finks against most aggro decks is just dirty, basically have a PtE or get stonewalled. Running a six could definitely be too much, though. Just curious what people's thoughts are.
Other question is what are people's boards looking like? I basically just copied Kadooka's, but really want to squeeze Bonfires in. Not sure where you want the Sliver and 2nd and 3rd Pridemages, so that's basically where I'm looking. There is Affinity ofc but if that's what it's for you probably just want some Grudges. Or maybe the Forked Bolts?
Yeah they're more anti-hate than anything, then? Should've thought of that. 3 Pridemage and a Sliver isn't overkill, though? It's not like they're hard to find. Also has anyone tried boarding Ethersworn Canonist? I thought it'd be bad since opponents will bring in artifact hate, but Storm doesn't do that and that's where we want it, and is a bad matchup. Basically it'd function as another Thalia.
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Standard: Humanimator
Modern: Jund, Wafo-Tapa UWR
Legacy: Witch-Maw Stoneblade
EDH: Ruhan of the Fomori, Hazezon Tamar, Maga, Traitor to Mortals
I am beginning to wonder if 3 Pridemage and 1 Harmonic Sliver are overkill. I may go down to 2 Pridemage 1 Sliver. Not sure which is better but we shall see. I may swap it for an Ethersworn, as I'm not sure what else i want in the deck but we will see.
Ya I'm realizing that now and I found a good replacement: Phyrexian Metamorph.
I jut played a few games against UW Tron. Apparently Elesh Norn is hard to beat. Its too bad Kiki-Jiki not being a 2/3 I may have won. But Metamorph can help, while being an answer for Linvala, and a good card.
I play Phyrexian Metamorph in the sideboard. I keep hoping I can Chord of Calling for it to beat Emrakul, but it's certainly a way to bean problematic stuff like Linvala, Elesh Norn, and Traft. If all else fails, it's the fifth Restoration Angel in the Angel Chain.
Oh yeah, I just thought about one thing for Zealous Conscripts fans: the Conscripts form of the combo entirely dodges Combust.
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Also, how have you guys been doing vs jund? The combination of confidant, bigger creatures and tons of removal has been tough for me. Jund charm is especially nasty. I've only recently buckled down and purchased a sigarda, but does anyone else have any thoughts?
taimla1 on MTGO
Jund Charm is rather messy, though--the version I test against (against myself) currently doesn't run it, but that card is definitely a nasty piece of work. Make sure you play Wall of Roots if you face enough Jund.
I'd recommend sideboarding in Thalias; forcing Liliana OTV and Maelstrom Pulse to cost 4 mana has been fairly good.
I don't have as much trouble against the current Jund build I'm testing against because it doesn't have Jund Charm and I play 2 Huntmaster of the Fells, 1 Zealous Conscripts, 1 Knight of the Reliquary, and 1 Thalia (pulling 2 Kiki-Jikis to make room for everything), but your mileage may vary. (Conscripts is hilarious if played early enough, especially if she's blinked by Restoration Angel. I tend to kidnap Goyfs with her, but Goyfs are enough, and Jund generally can't recover from the tempo loss.)
Modern: Jund, Wafo-Tapa UWR
Legacy: Witch-Maw Stoneblade
EDH: Ruhan of the Fomori, Hazezon Tamar, Maga, Traitor to Mortals
BGStandard Green AggroGB
UWRGModern Saheeli CobraGRWU
UBRGLegacy StormGRBU
Wizards Certified Rules Advisor
taimla1 on MTGO
Ok I'm doing that now
EDIT: HOLY **** IT GETS AROUND GHOSTLY PRISON EFFECTS! AND GIDEON! AND OTHER STUFF!
The last Conscripts doesn't have to untap kiki-jiki. it can steal w/e is hindering u from winning!
Thanks Hero's of the Plane
Modern
-------------
xRxAffinityxRx
Unfortunately, due to her mana cost, I'd rather pull her than Village Bell-Ringer if I need to make room for more hate bears (or I'm boarding for Game 2--Conscripts is useless against UR Storm), but she is pretty hilarious.
1 Plains
1 Mountain
4 Arid Mesa
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Razorverge Thicket
1 Copperline Gorge
2 Fire-Lit Thicket
Creatures:
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Wall of Roots
1 Noble Hierarch
3 Strangleroot Geist
1 Murderous Redcap
4 Restoration Angel
2 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Zealous Conscripts
1 Village Bell-Ringer
1 Cunning Sparkmage
1 Eternal Witness
1 Harmonic Sliver
Instants:
4 Chord of Calling
Artifacts:
4 Birthing Pod
2 Combust
2 Firespout
2 Forked Bolt
2 Fulminator Mage
2 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
Therfore I guess the only card really affecting us is torptor orb (yes we have quasali pridemage)
How fast do you usually combo of ?
one thing i liked with melira pod was that you could go off quite early since your key card have a cc of 1 2 or 3 and not 5 like this deck.
EDIT: Just played a game with Conscripts against RG Tron. It won be me both games. I suggest everyone tries him.
BGStandard Green AggroGB
UWRGModern Saheeli CobraGRWU
UBRGLegacy StormGRBU
Wizards Certified Rules Advisor
If u have a finks and an angel in play, along with a pod, u actually just win. U pod angel into conscripts, untap pod, pod finks into angel, bounce conscripts, pod angel into Kiki-jiki and just combo off.
Conscripts can untap a land if u have 5 mana, conscripts and angel And pod angel into Kiki-jiki and win
Little stuff like that just help to make the card better than It already is
Thanks Hero's of the Plane
Modern
-------------
xRxAffinityxRx
On the topic of how fast do I tend to go off? Not very is the best way to put it. While it doesn't have the same immediacy of a classic combo deck, I tend to pace myself similarly. Many games I don't even "go off.". It's less useful by the day, but when I first started playing the deck I would often avoid showing my combo in the first game in deference to just laying down the beats when I didn't feel pressure to go infinite. As far as the difference between melira and this deck goes...
Melira requires 3 creatures with a low curve, but it's difficult to pod into a viscera seer. So you need a higher cc sac outlet or to have one honestly. With Kiki you can get value on each of your pods all the way up to the combo.
I dont know if that means im playing the deck wrong or right but i've goldfished turn4 kills routinely. Now, if i see a hand with dork pod finks, i just laugh because i can win on turn 4 if my opponent (like a lot of people) dont realise how conscripts works!
i've actually had a conscripts resolve while i had Kiki-Jiki in play when the guy had a leak because he's like "ok steal my land?" and i said "nope i win?" and he rage quit after i showed him
Edit: I just goldfished like 40 hands. Over 25 of them were turn 4 wins. Almost 30/40 I was goldfishing turn 4 wins.
That's scary good
Thanks Hero's of the Plane
Modern
-------------
xRxAffinityxRx
I've been thinking of testing a 1-of Sun Titan, is that just too much? Getting back Finks, Wall, Pridemage, Bell-Ringer or Geist if you run them is sweet and podding straight from 4 into Titan (through Conscripts) can be a big game. Titan returning Finks against most aggro decks is just dirty, basically have a PtE or get stonewalled. Running a six could definitely be too much, though. Just curious what people's thoughts are.
Other question is what are people's boards looking like? I basically just copied Kadooka's, but really want to squeeze Bonfires in. Not sure where you want the Sliver and 2nd and 3rd Pridemages, so that's basically where I'm looking. There is Affinity ofc but if that's what it's for you probably just want some Grudges. Or maybe the Forked Bolts?
Modern: Jund, Wafo-Tapa UWR
Legacy: Witch-Maw Stoneblade
EDH: Ruhan of the Fomori, Hazezon Tamar, Maga, Traitor to Mortals
Modern: Jund, Wafo-Tapa UWR
Legacy: Witch-Maw Stoneblade
EDH: Ruhan of the Fomori, Hazezon Tamar, Maga, Traitor to Mortals
Thanks Hero's of the Plane
Modern
-------------
xRxAffinityxRx
BGStandard Green AggroGB
UWRGModern Saheeli CobraGRWU
UBRGLegacy StormGRBU
Wizards Certified Rules Advisor
I jut played a few games against UW Tron. Apparently Elesh Norn is hard to beat. Its too bad Kiki-Jiki not being a 2/3 I may have won. But Metamorph can help, while being an answer for Linvala, and a good card.
Thoughts?
Thanks Hero's of the Plane
Modern
-------------
xRxAffinityxRx
Oh yeah, I just thought about one thing for Zealous Conscripts fans: the Conscripts form of the combo entirely dodges Combust.