I ran a version with 23 lands, 3 heirach and 4 shaman. I was able to get out baneslayer and sigarta every game. The list was not refind at all, but sigarta was better than baneslayer each time. and they were basicly unkillable.
though once I did have a god hand of turn 1 inquestion of manaleak.
turn 2 shaman/heirch
turn 3 Baneslayer.
Thats the thing. This deck is good with the dorks but when your dorks hit bolts, decays, etc. etc. it is actually somewhat underwhelming.
BSA is a little overrated IMHO. More often than not she is 3WW: Target opponant discards a kill spell, or other relevant piece of killy.... thingy.
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BSA is a little overrated IMHO. More often than not she is 3WW: Target opponant discards a kill spell, or other relevant piece of killy.... thingy.
Killable, sure, but when she sticks she basically mops up the game by herself. A real good way to come back from the brink of dead. She's fine as a 1-of in the MD.
Killable, sure, but when she sticks she basically mops up the game by herself. A real good way to come back from the brink of dead. She's fine as a 1-of in the MD.
I'd pod into her. Then again that means saccing a Thrun. But I've found myself in that awkward position of "Well that Finks has seen it's run, why don't I pod it, oh wait, Thrun is Legendary".
I can't imagine accidentally Lava Axe-ing myself with Bob though. That'd suck.
I started from kiblars deck, but then added my own takes after testing. One was I upped fetch count to support 4 deathrite over birds. I might go back to that, but Id want to fit 2 more fetches in. Birds proved more reliable ramp... and beats (get to it later) to power out a massive turn 2-4.
Idealy you want to go accel, smiter, liege, swing for 6, sigarta, swing for 10, turn 5 swing for 17. But I found I relyed too heavily on a massive turn 3 and failed if I missed a land, or got a bolt to a bird. So I changed things.
I took out the "cute" fauna shaman into silver bullets, as I never used it. out of 40 ish games, I used it once, and it got bolted, so yeah. No. Instead I upped the aggro plan. Went with thalia first, as shes been a pain for every deck in existance.
Then game in goyf, the defult beater. I really needed turn 2 plays for mana rampless hands, and hes the defult way to go. Note, I still side him out for GY matches, and side in RIP.
Speaking of which, rip is the best Side card you can have right now. It ripped every match it was in open for me.
Sigarta proved her worth over baneslayer, because there was not a game she died in. She even laughed at knight of the realiqury which was a 12/12 my last game because she was a 9/9 with flying that his many a path didnt help him against.
This deck plays out more aggroy then youd expect. with a turn 2 smiter, or even powered out spirits, next turn with a leige, you can realllllyyy apply pressure. Sometimes the best offence is a good defence.
I tried out Dryad in here too, but I hated it because of spirits. Id say we use it better than jund anyway, because 1, lingering is in our colors, and 2. we have honors and support flyers. Though stalling with them is lovely, because it allows you to abandon all sort of defence and just attack. you can out damange jund.
As for the side, lot of it is replaceable. I wanted to test out charm because my dudes are usually 6+ power, trample might be nice, and having a path for wurmcoil is pretty chill.
Anyone have any questions? I tested this list out for the last few days, so Id love to talk about it.
What particular match ups were difficult? Any reason why you like spelling Sigarda "Sigarta"? How are Dyrads and Finks with Wilt Leaf Liege?
Anyways nice post as always. I do like your list a lot.
Mostly becauase Ive typed the name out like... 3 times, and I never really said it out loud
Dryads were great (4/3 for one mana is sick.) I never actually tried out finks. Reason why, is just that I think lingering souls and smiter are better in the 3 cmc slot, and this deck focuses ALOT on its mana curve. I'm sure a 5/4-4/3 finks is very good, as is a normal finks, but the problem is how cluttered that 3 slot would be, and how I was wishing almost every game when noble or bird died turn 1/2 that I had 2 drops instead (thus why I cut out avens from the main, as well as some 4 drops.)
If you were to more aim for a straight aggro version, and dropped souls from the list, by all means replace it with finks and dryad. I simply didnt want to focus on leige too much, as she is a huge target.
I do want to dial back into shaman if I can. I think the card is so good, it just cant be helped but to have it over birds. Birds did do its fair share of fighting though a couple times, being a 1/2-3/4 flyer
Still I hope other people test some new cards as well. GBW has a ton of creatures it can support. I just suggest from what I found for this archtype, it generally wants to be more agressive than jund, but more midrangy than zoo. It wants to focus more value on creatures, and making big board advancement through mana curve. I think thats the best route for this deck to take.
There are three different threads on this same deck. One here and two in Deck Creation. I'm posting info about my deck in this thread.
Draco: I hate to be a downer here, but building this deck is going to be tough on a budget. You are also going to want Deathrite Shamans, fetch lands, & Dark Confidant. On a budget you would be better off sticking to Eva Green (BG only) or building Infect or Affinity. Storm is also pretty cheap to build, especially since its mostly commons and Past In Flames is stupid cheap for how good it is.
If you are sticking with this shell, however, maybe try going aggro? Steppe Lynx and Qasali Pridemage are efficient and will help to mitigate your missing late-game & mid-game cards. Kill them before they notice you don't have a Liliana to clean up!
As you'll see from my personal list, I'm a big fan of Tidehollow Sculler. I think he is under-played right now, since he is a discard spell with legs. Maybe try some of him to go with your other discard spells for a powerful disruptive package.
You can go for more creatures and play MD Thalia, but I wasn't a fan of her in my list (which ran 18 non-Creature spells) There's nothing stopping you from making a creature-heavy list work, and Thalia is still cheap compared to how good she is.
Smother hits a lot, but get your hands on Dismembers as well. I think that 4 Path, 2-3 Dismember/Smother is enough removal to get started. Unfortunately there are no 2-drop black kill spells that hit every relevant creature. Smother, for example, will not hit Bloodbraid Elf or Baneslayer Angel.
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You can't always win, and just because you lose doesn't mean you played badly.
Even if you lose, it is important to remain confident in your ability to make good plays and decisions. Lose that and you are truly lost.
Testing is great, and the better the testing is, the better off you'll be.
It is impossible to tilt and play well.
It is possible to make no mistakes and still lose.
The older junk discussions have been archived. I'd merge them in here but the conflicting dates would make the thread difficult to read and understand.
The older threads can be found here and here. I've added links to the first post of this primer as well.
There are three different threads on this same deck. One here and two in Deck Creation. I'm posting info about my deck in this thread.
Draco: I hate to be a downer here, but building this deck is going to be tough on a budget. You are also going to want Deathrite Shamans, fetch lands, & Dark Confidant. On a budget you would be better off sticking to Eva Green (BG only) or building Infect or Affinity. Storm is also pretty cheap to build, especially since its mostly commons and Past In Flames is stupid cheap for how good it is.
If you are sticking with this shell, however, maybe try going aggro? Steppe Lynx and Qasali Pridemage are efficient and will help to mitigate your missing late-game & mid-game cards. Kill them before they notice you don't have a Liliana to clean up!
As you'll see from my personal list, I'm a big fan of Tidehollow Sculler. I think he is under-played right now, since he is a discard spell with legs. Maybe try some of him to go with your other discard spells for a powerful disruptive package.
You can go for more creatures and play MD Thalia, but I wasn't a fan of her in my list (which ran 18 non-Creature spells) There's nothing stopping you from making a creature-heavy list work, and Thalia is still cheap compared to how good she is.
Smother hits a lot, but get your hands on Dismembers as well. I think that 4 Path, 2-3 Dismember/Smother is enough removal to get started. Unfortunately there are no 2-drop black kill spells that hit every relevant creature. Smother, for example, will not hit Bloodbraid Elf or Baneslayer Angel.
The two threads over in deck creation were archived and this is our new home HorseshoeCrab, you may want to bring in some of your discussion from there over here as a lot of it is very informative.
One 2 drop black removal that does hit a decent amount of relevant creatures is Victim of Night. Not a lot of super relevant Zombies, Vampires, or Werewolves around.
Until of course standard decks flood into the modern scene and people work off their R/B Zombie lists.
Oh god. G to become an 8/8 until EOT? How did we miss THAT?
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Thanks for the merge! Now it should be easier for everyone to work on this list instead of being spread out over multiple threads.
Zx: Yeah, Skinshifter has some nice synergy with Doran. Personally, I think if we wanted to play Dorans, Spellskite wouldn't be a bad choice. It can protect hate bears, Thalias, Tidehollow Scullers, etc. so its not a bad draw without Doran, and its a cheap 4/4 with Doran. If I was going to run Dorans then I would look for creatures like Spellskite that would be good both with and without Doran.
There might even be some weird Pod list with Doran, Wall of Wood ("5/5") or Wall of Omens, and then a Deceiver Exarch / Restoration Angel combo. That way, Exarch is a 4/4 when its not part of the combo, Spellskites can be 4/4s when they're not being otherwise useful, Restoration Angel will be a 4/4, etc. Army of the 4/4s!
I haven't played many games with Skinshifter, but it does seem versatile and a solid option in many match ups. Just be careful to play around removal, because players will try to Bolt/Path/etc. your Shifter in response to activating its ability (and you can't activate it again in response to their response.)
Immortal: Goyf is better with Doran too! Goyf gets a +1 bump, which means it will break through any possible "Goyf stalemates" with Jund and as a 3/4 it will trade with so much more in the format. Getting to 4 power is pretty clutch in Modern, since all of the best man-lands have those stats, Loxodon Smiter has those stats, Twin's best creatures have 4 toughness, etc.
Ogura: Nice list. That is a different direction for this deck to take. I like the Commune With Nature as a way for Green to get in on the card selection that Blue normally monopolizes. You're probably a nightmare for most "fair" decks to face, but I am concerned that there isn't enough interaction with control or combo decks to keep them from ignoring you.
The SB is up in the air, but right now it reflects the fact that RG Tron is a terrible matchup.
Suppression Field didn't work out so well, because all of the cycling abilities on the cantrip artifacts were mana abilities. Ugh! Bitter Ordeal didn't do much. It took away Emrakul, sure, and maybe Eye Of Ugin as well, but I was still dead to multiple Wurmcoils. And Gaddock Teeg did nothing since I assumed that Tron boarded out Karns, and Teeg doesn't stop neither O.Stone nor the Wurmcoils that have handed me loss after loss.
The only MD change that I made was that a Gemstone Mine got cut for Horizon Canopy #3. The more I play with that card, the more I appreciate when it helps me get out of land pockets. Its kind of funny how a land can help me draw past lands, heh.
My last posts from the other thread:
Hey guys. I've been working on a Junk list for several weeks now, and posting my progress on the SCG forums and recently on MTGTheSource. SCG forums are going to be deleted any day now, and I've had no responses on The Source so I figured I'd jump in with you guys instead. It looks like this is the most active place to talk about Modern decks anyway
Currently this deck is doing great against UW Angel, Infect, and Storm. It is about even with RG Tron and Jund. The deck had trouble with Affinity and Twin, but new changes may fix that.
Ses had some questions:
A few questions though:
1.) No wrath effects? I'm not sure how you play out if you go aggressive and flood the board, or go tempo, and just keep things favorable.
2.) Wow that's an interesting mana base!
2.1) You can't tutor up Gemstone Mine, but I figure it's as good land early since Junk gets pretty demanding with color combinations.
2.2) 10 fetchlands, have you ever had any problems with this? Like, a fetchland flood? You've got a grand total of 7 fetchable lands. (3 basics, 3 shocks, 1 Bosk).
2.3) I like the idea of 1 shock each, since it makes for smoother land topdecking. Later on, you don't really need shocks anyway since your mana is pretty fixed already. So fetching up basics turns out just fine.
2.4) Murmuring Bosk great tech, I'm sure it's more of a "fetch at end of turn and have no intention of using anyway, so CipT isn't a problem" I like it.
2.5) How have you found Horizon Canopy in testing? That's been on my list of lands to pick up for some time now.
3.) How has Lingering Souls been working out for you?
...
and my answers:
1. I'm playing this deck more like a midrange deck. I built this in an attempt to see if I could make a better Jund deck by using White instead of Red spells. Like Jund, this list tries to trade off all of the opponent's good cards, and then clean up with efficient cretures like the Smiters or the collection of 2/x's and Spirit tokens that end up on my side of the field.
Since I'm trying to win with the incremental gains from all of these value dudes, Wrathing them away would be worse for me than my opponents. I could totally get behind more targeted mass-removal like Crime//Punishment or Engineered Explosives (play it @ 0 and LOL against Affinity.) Don't count out Zealous Persecution as a pseudo-Wrath against a lot of the top decks.
2. Thank you! I worked hard on refining this mana base, and as you saw from the other thread the mana has gone through a lot of shifts already.
2.1. Gemstone Mine could be City of Brass, but I chose Mine because the games are short enough that Mine's drawback doesn't matter often enough, and because I had too many pain lands already.
2.2. No, this has been great. The games aren't going long enough for me to "fail to find" with these, but I need 1 early to get my best plays going with Deathrite Shaman. They also ensure that I get my tri land (Murmuring Bosk) nearly every time to eliminate color issues.
2.3. Yeah, 1 of each has been plenty. I try to fetch basics first if I am facing down hyper aggro (to save life) or anything with red (because Blood Moon is bad news!) BTW whoever can build a Blood Moon deck that doesn't fold to Twin and Storm should earn him/herself a PTQ win next year. Blood Moon kills how many decks in this format?!?
2.4. The Bosk comes into play in most games where I have no turn 1 play. Crack fetch, put it in tapped, oh look I have all three colors on turn 2. It hurts a little, but the color fixing is really important when I'm trying to cast spells for 1BB, 2W, AND 1GW at the same time.
2.5. Its awesome. Probably the best land in the deck to be honest. It has pulled me out of land floods, and it does have a little synergy with Deathrite Shaman (you only lose net 1 mana if you use Shaman to eat Canopy after sac'ing it.)
3. Originally I didn't run Lingering Souls. One of the big mistakes that I made last year was that I played too many durdles (creatures with no abilities) and I always thought Lingering Souls was too slow and durdly to be playable. After actually playing games of Modern, however, it because clear that having blockers for Affinity & Infect, value from Lili's +1, a flying 4/4 that I can cast in two parts is just too good to pass up. This card is also the best top deck ever! I misjudged this card, and it may be the best card in my deck in some important match ups like Affinity.
I am not happy with my Storm matchup:
The current list isn't doing as well against Storm as the last list did. I also am playing against the new version of storm with Epic Experiment instead of the old Pyromancer's Ascension list. Epic Experiment makes way more of Storm's hands work, which reduces variance & makes it more consistent overall.
Post board I am leaving in Dismembers (in case Goblin Electromancer stays in) and Zealous Persecution (in case Storm decides to go for Empty the Warrens.) I actually don't have a lot of good cards to bring in for this particular matchup. I have Rule of Law, but with Gaddock Teeg doing poorly in other matchups I am stuck using just GY hate and those Rules to try and "get" Storm. In testing I (playing as the Storm opponent) sideboarded in the worst way possible for Junk i.e. Leaving Grapeshot in (not fearing Faith's Shield) and bringing in Echoing Truths (which the Epic Experiment lists play, but NOT any of the mainstream lists.) Of course things aren't looking good for team Junk when the storm deck has the perfect set of tools to beat Junk's hate for the deck!
If Storm doesn't have a bounce spell in its SB, I can win. If I get more than 2 discard spells regardless of what storm has, I am winning. If Storm boards into Empty The Warrens, I can win if I get one of my outs or if I hit any of the scenarios above. I'll try a few more games with my fictional Storm opponent making the "wrong" boarding decisions and see how things pan out.
Finally (phew!) some thoughts about matchups and metagaming in general. This is why I will never have a sideboard that is "set in stone":
A mistake I made when testing Modern a year ago is that I would try to test against worst-case scenarios. This would discourage me and cause me to change my deck to try and shore up boogey-men matchups, when reality showed that these things didn't happen all of the time. Its good to see what the absolute worst case is going to look like, but its not as important to be able to beat all of those (no deck can) than it is to be solid against the expected most popular decks in the room.
Note that I didn't say BEST decks in the room. Most popular. Magic is still a game played by humans, and my opposition is not a bunch of robots that will automatically play a winning deck list. Some will, but a lot of players I can peg into different archetypes just based on what I've seen them play before, budgets, which pros they listen to more often, etc.
Just because 10 out of 15 Pros say RDW is a bad deck in Standard, for example, doesn't mean that the majority of RDW players who can't afford UW Mythic Rare$ deck of the week are going to jump ship. The same applies to Modern. I expect a field with lots of Affinity, some Storm, some Tron, some Burn, and other cheap decks as well as a smattering of "grinders" who will always play Blue, a few people who I pegged as always playing combo, a few guys that I know who like to brew too much (I was one of those guys .) The question I'm asking myself with regards to this room make-up is, which of these people are bringing my worst matchups, and what are my odds of being paired up with these people?
tl;dr: What can I afford to "try to dodge" and what do I have to beat? If my deck doesn't beat the decks that I have to beat, then why am I still playing it?
Jund tops my list, followed by UW. I expect the big-time grinders to play UW or Teachings or some sort of Ux Delver deck, whatever is considered "best" at the moment. I expect some Twin and UR storm, because, hey, Islands are good, right? I expect some of the budget or less-experienced players to pilot Affininty and Infect, because they are decks that are cheap and easy to play. It will look like the field is swarmed with these decks, but they will thin out in the later rounds.
The final make-up of my sideboard depends on a) Which decks are the worst matchups for me (currently RG Tron,) and b) What are my odds of running into which of my worst matchups? If I have a 20% chance of beating Tron, but only two people play it at the PTQ, then the Ensnaring Bridge slots become Gaddock Teegs again or something relevant against Jund. One thing I've learned from playing in too many PTQs is that you can NEVER accurately tell what decks are actually going to be sitting across from you.
I have a basic ranking system for the major decks in the format. Jund with White is #1, followed by regular Jund, Affinity, UW, Infect, etc. The rankings change based on which decks end up in Top8's at the most recent large tournaments. I anticipate that a winning decklist and consistent top 8 lists will have a high rank, while ones that did well before but haven't had good results since fall off (for example, I haven't tested against Eggs yet, and Gifts of all things is higher on my list of priorities to test since it did crack the most recent GP Top 8.)
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You can't always win, and just because you lose doesn't mean you played badly.
Even if you lose, it is important to remain confident in your ability to make good plays and decisions. Lose that and you are truly lost.
Testing is great, and the better the testing is, the better off you'll be.
It is impossible to tilt and play well.
It is possible to make no mistakes and still lose.
Originally the plan was to leave Loxodon Smiter in as a meta call. However I've found that against any other deck, he's just a dumb beater. I say just lightly considering he's a 4/4 for 3. But I've found that Stonecloaker just adds so much value to cards like Eternal Witness, Kitchen Finks and if you've got the mana for it Tidehollow Sculler.
"If he's that great, just play Restoration Angel!". I honestly could, but I want a 3 drop in that slot. Thrun, The Last Troll is currently in my 4 slot spot, and he's holding it very well.
Eternal Witness in hand and graveyard (been cycling these) Damnation useless thanks to the double protectors
And at least 1 of all my 1-drops and 2-drops in the grave as well.
I just had myself alpha struck after an attempted Crib Swap on my Eternal Witness which I Abrupt Decayed myself so it wouldn't get exiled and I'm down to 3.
He alpha strikes again (he dropped that second Timber Protector the last turn, that's why he's fearless about it).
Path to exile one Timber Protector. (5 lands left)
Activate Vault. (Tap out)
I block the other Protector with Deathrite (chump, death touch)
Block Chameleon Colossus (5/5 possibly 10/10) with Thrun. (chump)
Block Leaf Crown Elder (4/6) with Eternal Witness (chump)
His 3 elves go through along with a the Treefolk Harbinger. I take 4 and gain 7 simultaneously, and back up to 6 life. No creatures in play.
Hey Ses, what does your sideboard look like right now? Also, you mention Birthing Pod in your games, but they're not in the list that was posted. Is that currently part of the list or was it cut?
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You can't always win, and just because you lose doesn't mean you played badly.
Even if you lose, it is important to remain confident in your ability to make good plays and decisions. Lose that and you are truly lost.
Testing is great, and the better the testing is, the better off you'll be.
It is impossible to tilt and play well.
It is possible to make no mistakes and still lose.
Hey Ses, what does your sideboard look like right now? Also, you mention Birthing Pod in your games, but they're not in the list that was posted. Is that currently part of the list or was it cut?
Whoa, you're right! Hang on, I picked out my list from the first page assuming it was up to date, here's what I'm currently running:
A few changes that I'm inclined to doing eventually:
Balance Forest ratio. My deck has been leaning towards green recently. I'm still hopeful for Orzhov.
Add 1-2x Godless Shrine to the mana base
Add 1x Murmuring Bosk to the mana base
Add 2-3x Horizon Canopy to the mana base
Add 0-1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth to the mana base
Add 0-1x Gavony Township to the mana base
I have to put out that Birthing Pod really gives me an option when I draw those extra awkward Bobs. When it's out, my creatures read: Pay x: Tutor an (x-1) drop. Which is awesome.
I got beat senceless the other day with a caw version of rock. It was pretty much a w/b deck with some green to make use of deathrite. But it did rocky things, like have out efficient resilient beaters, and jammed packed with removal/discard.
Thats the thing. This deck is good with the dorks but when your dorks hit bolts, decays, etc. etc. it is actually somewhat underwhelming.
Sexy Sig by mchief111 @ Rising Studios
EDH
G Isao
"I am disillusioned enough to know that no man's opinion on any subject is worth a damn unless backed up with enough genuine information to make him really know what he's talking about."
-H. P. Lovecraft
Killable, sure, but when she sticks she basically mops up the game by herself. A real good way to come back from the brink of dead. She's fine as a 1-of in the MD.
My Pauper Cube ♤ The Pauper Cube Thread Common Knowledge — 1 2
I'd pod into her. Then again that means saccing a Thrun. But I've found myself in that awkward position of "Well that Finks has seen it's run, why don't I pod it, oh wait, Thrun is Legendary".
I can't imagine accidentally Lava Axe-ing myself with Bob though. That'd suck.
I'm dying to try this. Bob's screaming no though. I'd MD one, increase the number finks, maybe toss in a Loxodon hierarch/obstinate baloth or two.
3 Gavony Township
1 Godless Shrine
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Plains
4 Razorverge Thicket
2 Stirring Wildwood
1 Temple Garden
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Marsh Flats
4 Birds of Paradise
2 Qasali Pridemage
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Loxodon Smiter
4 Wilt-Leaf Liege
3 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Oust
4 Path to Exile
4 Lingering Souls
2 Creeping Corrosion
1 Dismember
3 Rest in Peace
3 Stony Silence
3 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Selesnya Charm
2 Aven Mindcensor
I started from kiblars deck, but then added my own takes after testing. One was I upped fetch count to support 4 deathrite over birds. I might go back to that, but Id want to fit 2 more fetches in. Birds proved more reliable ramp... and beats (get to it later) to power out a massive turn 2-4.
Idealy you want to go accel, smiter, liege, swing for 6, sigarta, swing for 10, turn 5 swing for 17. But I found I relyed too heavily on a massive turn 3 and failed if I missed a land, or got a bolt to a bird. So I changed things.
I took out the "cute" fauna shaman into silver bullets, as I never used it. out of 40 ish games, I used it once, and it got bolted, so yeah. No. Instead I upped the aggro plan. Went with thalia first, as shes been a pain for every deck in existance.
Then game in goyf, the defult beater. I really needed turn 2 plays for mana rampless hands, and hes the defult way to go. Note, I still side him out for GY matches, and side in RIP.
Speaking of which, rip is the best Side card you can have right now. It ripped every match it was in open for me.
Sigarta proved her worth over baneslayer, because there was not a game she died in. She even laughed at knight of the realiqury which was a 12/12 my last game because she was a 9/9 with flying that his many a path didnt help him against.
This deck plays out more aggroy then youd expect. with a turn 2 smiter, or even powered out spirits, next turn with a leige, you can realllllyyy apply pressure. Sometimes the best offence is a good defence.
I tried out Dryad in here too, but I hated it because of spirits. Id say we use it better than jund anyway, because 1, lingering is in our colors, and 2. we have honors and support flyers. Though stalling with them is lovely, because it allows you to abandon all sort of defence and just attack. you can out damange jund.
As for the side, lot of it is replaceable. I wanted to test out charm because my dudes are usually 6+ power, trample might be nice, and having a path for wurmcoil is pretty chill.
Anyone have any questions? I tested this list out for the last few days, so Id love to talk about it.
Anyways nice post as always. I do like your list a lot.
Sexy Sig by mchief111 @ Rising Studios
EDH
G Isao
Mostly becauase Ive typed the name out like... 3 times, and I never really said it out loud
Dryads were great (4/3 for one mana is sick.) I never actually tried out finks. Reason why, is just that I think lingering souls and smiter are better in the 3 cmc slot, and this deck focuses ALOT on its mana curve. I'm sure a 5/4-4/3 finks is very good, as is a normal finks, but the problem is how cluttered that 3 slot would be, and how I was wishing almost every game when noble or bird died turn 1/2 that I had 2 drops instead (thus why I cut out avens from the main, as well as some 4 drops.)
If you were to more aim for a straight aggro version, and dropped souls from the list, by all means replace it with finks and dryad. I simply didnt want to focus on leige too much, as she is a huge target.
I do want to dial back into shaman if I can. I think the card is so good, it just cant be helped but to have it over birds. Birds did do its fair share of fighting though a couple times, being a 1/2-3/4 flyer
Still I hope other people test some new cards as well. GBW has a ton of creatures it can support. I just suggest from what I found for this archtype, it generally wants to be more agressive than jund, but more midrangy than zoo. It wants to focus more value on creatures, and making big board advancement through mana curve. I think thats the best route for this deck to take.
Draco: I hate to be a downer here, but building this deck is going to be tough on a budget. You are also going to want Deathrite Shamans, fetch lands, & Dark Confidant. On a budget you would be better off sticking to Eva Green (BG only) or building Infect or Affinity. Storm is also pretty cheap to build, especially since its mostly commons and Past In Flames is stupid cheap for how good it is.
If you are sticking with this shell, however, maybe try going aggro? Steppe Lynx and Qasali Pridemage are efficient and will help to mitigate your missing late-game & mid-game cards. Kill them before they notice you don't have a Liliana to clean up!
As you'll see from my personal list, I'm a big fan of Tidehollow Sculler. I think he is under-played right now, since he is a discard spell with legs. Maybe try some of him to go with your other discard spells for a powerful disruptive package.
You can go for more creatures and play MD Thalia, but I wasn't a fan of her in my list (which ran 18 non-Creature spells) There's nothing stopping you from making a creature-heavy list work, and Thalia is still cheap compared to how good she is.
Smother hits a lot, but get your hands on Dismembers as well. I think that 4 Path, 2-3 Dismember/Smother is enough removal to get started. Unfortunately there are no 2-drop black kill spells that hit every relevant creature. Smother, for example, will not hit Bloodbraid Elf or Baneslayer Angel.
~ Brian DeMars
Or is it too budget?
It can defend, evade, and even hit 8 with doran on the table
The older threads can be found here and here. I've added links to the first post of this primer as well.
The two threads over in deck creation were archived and this is our new home HorseshoeCrab, you may want to bring in some of your discussion from there over here as a lot of it is very informative.
One 2 drop black removal that does hit a decent amount of relevant creatures is Victim of Night. Not a lot of super relevant Zombies, Vampires, or Werewolves around.
Until of course standard decks flood into the modern scene and people work off their R/B Zombie lists.
I like Skinshifter, I've run it on my list and it's performed decently; I don't even play Doran. Easy to splash, and is a beater in his own right.
"I am disillusioned enough to know that no man's opinion on any subject is worth a damn unless backed up with enough genuine information to make him really know what he's talking about."
-H. P. Lovecraft
Zx: Yeah, Skinshifter has some nice synergy with Doran. Personally, I think if we wanted to play Dorans, Spellskite wouldn't be a bad choice. It can protect hate bears, Thalias, Tidehollow Scullers, etc. so its not a bad draw without Doran, and its a cheap 4/4 with Doran. If I was going to run Dorans then I would look for creatures like Spellskite that would be good both with and without Doran.
There might even be some weird Pod list with Doran, Wall of Wood ("5/5") or Wall of Omens, and then a Deceiver Exarch / Restoration Angel combo. That way, Exarch is a 4/4 when its not part of the combo, Spellskites can be 4/4s when they're not being otherwise useful, Restoration Angel will be a 4/4, etc. Army of the 4/4s!
I haven't played many games with Skinshifter, but it does seem versatile and a solid option in many match ups. Just be careful to play around removal, because players will try to Bolt/Path/etc. your Shifter in response to activating its ability (and you can't activate it again in response to their response.)
Immortal: Goyf is better with Doran too! Goyf gets a +1 bump, which means it will break through any possible "Goyf stalemates" with Jund and as a 3/4 it will trade with so much more in the format. Getting to 4 power is pretty clutch in Modern, since all of the best man-lands have those stats, Loxodon Smiter has those stats, Twin's best creatures have 4 toughness, etc.
Ogura: Nice list. That is a different direction for this deck to take. I like the Commune With Nature as a way for Green to get in on the card selection that Blue normally monopolizes. You're probably a nightmare for most "fair" decks to face, but I am concerned that there isn't enough interaction with control or combo decks to keep them from ignoring you.
My current list:
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Tidehollow Sculler
3 Loxodon Smiter
1 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Forest
3 Horizon Canopy
1 Temple Garden
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Godless Shrine
1 Murmuring Bosk
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Marsh Flats
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Isolated Chapel
1 Woodland Cemetary
1 Gavony Township
2 Thoughtseize
4 Path to Exile
1 Dismember
2 Zealous Persecution
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Liliana of the Veil
3 Lingering Souls
SB:
The SB is up in the air, but right now it reflects the fact that RG Tron is a terrible matchup.
The only MD change that I made was that a Gemstone Mine got cut for Horizon Canopy #3. The more I play with that card, the more I appreciate when it helps me get out of land pockets. Its kind of funny how a land can help me draw past lands, heh.
My last posts from the other thread:
Ses had some questions:
and my answers:
I am not happy with my Storm matchup:
Finally (phew!) some thoughts about matchups and metagaming in general. This is why I will never have a sideboard that is "set in stone":
~ Brian DeMars
8x Swamps
2x Plains
1x Forest
3x Overgrown Tomb
2x Vault of the Archangel
1x Temple Garden
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Marsh Flats
4x Deathrite Shaman
3x Tidehollow Sculler
4x Dark Confidant
2x Kitchen Finks
2x Eternal Witness
2x Loxodon Smiter
2x Stonecloaker
2x Thrun, The Last Troll
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
2x Path to Exile
2x Abrupt Decay
2x Dismember
2x Damnation
Artifacts (2):
2x Birthing Pod
Had a pretty good match against a friend of mine who is playing Descendant's Path + Cream of the Crop + Treefolk (Leaf Crown Elder, Timber Protector, Chameleon Colossus)
Just going to pick through my decklist:
I've currently got two Maelstrom Pulses on the way to enter the deck, so two things have got to go. Candidates are:
"If he's that great, just play Restoration Angel!". I honestly could, but I want a 3 drop in that slot. Thrun, The Last Troll is currently in my 4 slot spot, and he's holding it very well.
I had a play earlier:
Play Dark Confidant
Pod Bob into a Stonecloaker
Bounce Eternal Witness
Play Eternal Witness
Get Path To Exile
Remove threat.
I've only got two Paths in my deck. And I was very happy to get rid of my friend's Chameleon Colossus.
Another thing I want to put out there is that Eternal Witnesses provide a great lock against your opponent's beater. Chump blocking all day.
One card I'm going to give out a lot of praise to is Vault of the Archangel. What a champ!
Here's the board position:
Him:
2 Timber Protectors
1 Chameleon Colossus
1 Leaf Crown Elder
1 Treefolk Harbinger
3 Arbor Elf
Me:
Birthing Pod
Thrun, the Last Troll
Eternal Witness in hand and graveyard (been cycling these)
Damnation useless thanks to the double protectors
And at least 1 of all my 1-drops and 2-drops in the grave as well.
I had 10 lands, but most importantly, I had Vault of the Archangel.
What just happened.
I just had myself alpha struck after an attempted Crib Swap on my Eternal Witness which I Abrupt Decayed myself so it wouldn't get exiled and I'm down to 3.
Top deck: Path to Exile.
I lay down the Eternal Witness returning Deathrite Shaman and playing that as well.
Lands left: 6
He alpha strikes again (he dropped that second Timber Protector the last turn, that's why he's fearless about it).
Path to exile one Timber Protector. (5 lands left)
Activate Vault. (Tap out)
I block the other Protector with Deathrite (chump, death touch)
Block Chameleon Colossus (5/5 possibly 10/10) with Thrun. (chump)
Block Leaf Crown Elder (4/6) with Eternal Witness (chump)
His 3 elves go through along with a the Treefolk Harbinger. I take 4 and gain 7 simultaneously, and back up to 6 life. No creatures in play.
My turn, draw a Deathrite Shaman, Damnation, play Shaman, pod into Bob.
Cleaned up from there.
~ Brian DeMars
Whoa, you're right! Hang on, I picked out my list from the first page assuming it was up to date, here's what I'm currently running:
8x Swamps
2x Plains
1x Forest
3x Overgrown Tomb
2x Vault of the Archangel
1x Temple Garden
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Marsh Flats
Creatures (19):
4x Deathrite Shaman
3x Tidehollow Sculler
4x Dark Confidant
2x Kitchen Finks
2x Eternal Witness
2x Stonecloaker
2x Thrun, The Last Troll
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
2x Path to Exile
2x Abrupt Decay
2x Dismember
2x Maelstrom Pulse
2x Damnation
Artifacts (2):
2x Birthing Pod
1x Damnation
2x Kitchen Finks
3x Zealous Persecution
2x Abrupt Decay
3x Sudden Death
2x Oblivion Stone
2x Loxodon Smiter
A few changes that I'm inclined to doing eventually:
Balance Forest ratio. My deck has been leaning towards green recently. I'm still hopeful for Orzhov.
Add 1-2x Godless Shrine to the mana base
Add 1x Murmuring Bosk to the mana base
Add 2-3x Horizon Canopy to the mana base
Add 0-1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth to the mana base
Add 0-1x Gavony Township to the mana base
Swap Oblivion Stones for Creeping Corrosion in SB
Reduce Abrupt Decay and Sudden Death by 1 in SB for anti-combo cards. Probably Thalia. Or Rest in Peace. Not sure on this yet.
Stonecloaker is currently under testing. But I feel like he'll be first cut if I want anything in.
Sigarda, Host of Herons is VERY tempting. But I fear Lava Axeing myself courtesy of Bob is a bad idea.
I've been considering bumping Deathrite Shaman down to 3. If not swapping him out for Birds of Paradise if the mana base gets too greedy. Likely not though, his Lavamancer mimicry is too valuable.
I have to put out that Birthing Pod really gives me an option when I draw those extra awkward Bobs. When it's out, my creatures read: Pay x: Tutor an (x-1) drop. Which is awesome.