I played against- Hollow One, ArcLight, Traditional Jund, Creeping Dredge, BG Elves. I lost to dredge and hollow one but made top 8 then lost to the same dredge deck in the second round of the cut to Top 8. End result was- 4-3
Notes: Unmoored Ego is combo and tron hate; Flaying tendrils is great for low and aggressive decks and the exile is key against arclight and dredge with the plus that caryatid lives through it. I've dropped Terrastadon as I think a low to the ground aggressive plan of attack is going to work better than reanimator plan against Tron variants. With Unmoored Egoand Fulminator Mage working to keep them off tron and Sun titan to loop the mage or ghost quarter.
I have been testing the Ramp package in place of the discard package and I think my experience with it so far is that its the better package. It helps protect our greedy mana base. I have found this version to be far better against Ponze, blood moon, and fulminators, and allows us to save a few points of life with fetch/shocks which helps us to survive to the late game. A t3 gifts/ t4 unburial can just win games that discard and T4 gifts wouldn't win us.
Thanks for the reports. Congrats on your recent success.
You make a great case for the ramp creatures. I especially like Caryatid because of the hexproof. Do you think 4 is excessive? How often were you disappointed to see her as a top deck late game?
I may start testing a list similar to yours, with heavier white for sweepers and Sun Titan. Do you feel Liliana of the Veil or Jace, Vryn's Prodigy have any place in here? Even as 1x each
I like the 4 caryatid and have rarely found them to be a bad draw as at it worst you play it to fog 3+ damage or it ramps you to your late game spells. Jace vp didn't make it to my final list but I did test him as a one of in an earlier build. With the build of this deck any creatures that can be bolted,or pushed before they generate value aren't great as they will be easy targets. By having the low creatures be immediate value you either fully strand their creature removal or reduce it's impact. LOTV could still make it in the list as a one or two of if you had the copies to test I would go down the last hope, and a brutality.
In general it looks like a strong list, though I do have some unsollicited feedback.
I would move fulminator to sb, snap to main, snap will have far more utility than Fulminator.
You could also drop the Urborg for a bojuka bog. While the urborg is normally part of the loam/crime with 4 caryitids we can generally crime multiple times a turn without urborg and its extra grave hate.
The 15 different cards in your sideboard doesn't seem to have any pattern. While we are using gifts and want to maximize it's power we shouldn't pick cards of different names solely for names sake.
I would also say 1 IOK and 1 thoughtseize in the board isn't worth their slots- You are not likely to have them in the first 2 turns where they would be helpful for their match types.
A single KoR in the 75 is really helpful for getting to your utility lands and can provide a clock for decks we need to pressure.
Honest question: What deck are you planning on bringing Sigarda in for? It seems its only good to fight emrakul/LOTV emblems and heavy removal decks.
Regarding the recent list here: I'd strongly recommend more discard, this is the best thing you can proactively do in the first few turns against virtually any opponent. If the matchup happens to be midrange, then board out some and go for the even grindier plan with LtLH and your value dorks. And I'm not sold on Unmoored Ego to be honest, I haven't seen it doing much at all. You might want to go up to 3-4 Surgicals, which together with Extirpate and Snapcaster Mage considerably diversify your options.
Recently had some time for testing and slightly refining the list, although my experience is mostly constrained to games against either control or midrange. Lately I tested against a deck that essentially was Jeff Hooglands Sultai Control list, let alone a few slots that were changed depending on things going on locally at an FNM level. All in all I was quite satisfied, I had a winning record in both pre- and post board games (turns out Unmoored Ego isn't quite as good against Gifts as one might think). The only thing that I found really annoying was the Birds of Paradise. The rate at which one can cast T2 LotV is much lower than I expected (even after crunching the numbers it still feels like its happening too rarely), hence I decided to cut the Birds and increase the threat density (which almost was an issue if not Lingering Souls tokens going all the way in the end, since Elesh/Iona + the manlands and Loam were exiled due to a timely Nihil Spellbomb). I replaced the Birds with Raven's Crime, the all-star in grindy matchups, the 25th land (the 3rd Marsh Flats, in fact) and a single Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet which has won a game on all of its own. Kalitas is pretty neat in this kind of deck, we are pretty heavy on removal, so if the sticks for a couple of turns, the advantage gets close to insurmountable, putting aside the lifegain all together. The list looks like this:
Ensnaring Bridge is essentially there to test it, the intention is obvious I guess and is suppose to hold back aggressive strategies, whereas it has also helped allocating some time against Celestial Colonnades and alikes. Additionally, it can be searched for in a Gifts pile if urgently needed, although that might be a corner case. The only thing I'm uncertain about is the sideboard. I have pretty much liked Crucible against UWx decks, especially in conjunction with Raven's Crime if Loam doesn't happen to be present. Hitting land drops indefinitely feels pretty strong after all, making the deck inevitable against multiple Field of Ruin and Ghost Quarter effects. Torpor Orb is nice against Humans, especially on the play, LtLH is recursion for matchups such as Jund/Junk, where the '-2' grants some value with Snapcaster or Kalitas. Tron is of course a nightmare with this build. The rest is pretty much standard, however comments and discussions are of course welcome.
I been playing with this alot and I really like it. This is Dark Jeskai Gifts.
1) I'm pushing my discard/ filter to the very maximum with 3 Liliana of the Veil, 4 Jace VP, 4 Vendilion Cliques, 4 Collective Bruality and 2 Nahiri.
I find clique being able to target yourself to push Iona back into your deck + draw a card is just amazing. I went to the full 4 (I been on 3 for a long time) to fight UW a bit better, and since the rest of the deck is all discard anyways, I can loot away extra cliques with my other effects
2) I found the hidden benefit of playing with this much looting effect is you can play a higher curve -> as noted 2 Notion Thieves, 2 Nahiri, 2 Draglord Silumgar. Silumgar was original a re-animator target against Tron/ Jund. I liked it alot that I pushed a second in the main.
I think of Notion Thief and Nahiri as gifts 5-6 depending on the matchup; they're both pretty backbreaking if resolves. Notion thief's second purpose is to "support" liliana. Liliana isn't very good if your opponent has very good card advantage (i.e. UW control). Thief can help to ensure liliana is always good. Nahiri can remove problematic enchantments like blood moon, leylines and rest in peace in longer games
3) Wurm harvest is for the play of gifts for 3 lands + wurms against decks like Abzan (if it still exists) or UW control or an emergency second bullet if your reanimator plan A fails. I really like it
Now that's a spicy list for sure, however, let me make some remarks: First and foremost 23 lands sounds like 1 or 2 too little, depending on the exact version. Usually, 4 lands is the minimum for this deck, so you consistently want to hit your land drops for the first 4 turns, which is not an easy task without cantrips. Another thing I have enjoyed playing was manlands (2 seems like the sweet spot), specifically Celestial Colonnade and Creeping Tar Pit, alternatively Shambling Vent if you are bound to a budget, although the Tar Pit is rather cheap at the moment. Then, what about utility lands such as Field of Ruin/Ghost Quarter? I can't comment on specific choices, but do you really want 4 JVPs in your deck? The same comes to mind for the Clique. Have you considered Terminate, Dreadbore or even Bedevil for dealing with planeswalkers? This (thoroughly needed) role is normally covered by Abrupt Decay, Assassin's Trophy ad Maelstrom Pulse in the green sector of the deck. You could e.g. replace a Brutality with one of these or even cut a Path for good measure.
Now that's a spicy list for sure, however, let me make some remarks: First and foremost 23 lands sounds like 1 or 2 too little, depending on the exact version. Usually, 4 lands is the minimum for this deck, so you consistently want to hit your land drops for the first 4 turns, which is not an easy task without cantrips. Another thing I have enjoyed playing was manlands (2 seems like the sweet spot), specifically Celestial Colonnade and Creeping Tar Pit, alternatively Shambling Vent if you are bound to a budget, although the Tar Pit is rather cheap at the moment. Then, what about utility lands such as Field of Ruin/Ghost Quarter? I can't comment on specific choices, but do you really want 2 JVPs in your deck? The same comes to mind for the Clique. Have you considered Terminate, Dreadbore or even Bedevil for dealing with planeswalkers? This (thoroughly needed) role is normally covered by Abrupt Decay, Assassin's Trophy ad Maelstrom Pulse in the green sector of the deck. You could e.g. replace a Brutality with one of these or even cut a Path for good measure.
- I find having 4 Jace Vryn's Prodigy allows you to cheat slightly on your mana and allows you to 'get away' with playing not only 23 lands but a 4 color mana base.
- I played 3 cliques for a long time. The case is Clique has outperformed in killing planeswalkers, ambushing attackers, cliquing yourself to push Iona back into your deck, helping you hit your 4th land drop, disrupting the opponent, etc that I went all the way up to 4. Its just been way too good. Clique is not to do X but it just does so much that I went up to 4
- 4 Brutalities was really that it is the "best" hand disruption in the deck. I used to play a split of inquistion and brutalities, but brutality has just done alot of work.
- Red is more of a "free" splash color for K command and Nahiri which are just excellent at answering disruption in the form of Relic, cage, Rest in Peace etc. I really don't want to go into red if I could avoid it. I played esper for a while and I found with Jace VP, and this much loot effects, this red splash is essentially "free"
- I could see myself cutting a path for a dreadbore. In fact, I could see myself going something like 4 pushes, 2 dreadbores and moving my 75 with white being more or less a splash color. In the sense, I could turn 1-2 need UB, Turn 3, need Red, Turn 4 needs White to combo off.
1) the dredge/ Mardu pyromancer matchups to put out tokens/ buy then. Combo out Elesh Norn, get 3 3/3 and try to kill 1-2 turns. I find this is a much more effective stragety to beating these decks than packing grave hate
I can see the upside of JVP, but what about opposing removal? One of the strengths I have greatly appreciated was blanking the removal of the opposing deck (which is why I recently cut BoP entirely, since the new Arclight decks often play Gut Shot which feels awful). Could you also comment on Dragonlord Silumgar, I for myself had to look this card up? I guess it acts as an additional Gifts/Rites target, I fear that it often eats removal which neglects its effect entirely. What have been your experiences so far and against which decks?
Regarding the 4th colour, in my experience no splash is 'for free', and even more so in an 4C deck. I would suggest that you try at least 2 manlands in your list, they work great in grindy matchups and are often hard to deal with threats. I guess your plan against manlands is Push/Path? More traditional Gifts builds mostly dedicated two land slots to utility lands (such as Academy Ruins or Tectonic Edge/Ghost Quarter), you could go with 1 with only 23 lands if you feel like it. Also, no basic Mountain?
I can see the upside of JVP, but what about opposing removal? One of the strengths I have greatly appreciated was blanking the removal of the opposing deck (which is why I recently cut BoP entirely, since the new Arclight decks often play Gut Shot which feels awful). Could you also comment on Dragonlord Silumgar, I for myself had to look this card up? I guess it acts as an additional Gifts/Rites target, I fear that it often eats removal which neglects its effect entirely. What have been your experiences so far and against which decks?
Regarding the 4th colour, in my experience no splash is 'for free', and even more so in an 4C deck. I would suggest that you try at least 2 manlands in your list, they work great in grindy matchups and are often hard to deal with threats. I guess your plan against manlands is Push/Path? More traditional Gifts builds mostly dedicated two land slots to utility lands (such as Academy Ruins or Tectonic Edge/Ghost Quarter), you could go with 1 with only 23 lands if you feel like it. Also, no basic Mountain?
- I guess you could say my 4th color forced me out of manlands, ghost quarters and fields etc (which I was never really fond of when I was on esper)
- My decks' theory with Jace is I want them to point cards at it. (as long as I don;t get edict by lilana or reflector maged) I'm usually fine with the trade. I view Jace more as a setup card rather than my tarmogofy. I've noticed that if my opponent's are pointing removal at my jace, its not directed at my cliques, reanimator targets or my life total and can disrupt their tempo. Jace has been incredibly important to loot in non-interactive matchups to power out the combo.
(I always say on turn 1, I want to be thoughtseized because this is often the least threatening thing my opponent can do)
- Silumgar was original a rites target to deal with Liliana and Karn. It was often my go to win strategy against Tron is to steal their karn as life from the loam and any strategy is often just too slow.
- I want to enter an attrition style strategy where my opponents are trading one for one with me and we enter a more topdeck situation, and in these scenarios, top decking K commands, Jace, Dragonlord really shines.
- We have 4 Brutalities, liliana and cliques to try to clear the way to try to protect the silumgar
The second Silumgar is more of an open question:
- people usually board out hard removal in the form of terminates, paths etc as they don't work well against Iona
- Cards like Keranos or Teferi in my opinion are just not good options in a format filled with Karns from ETron and Tron, Jace from UW or Hollowed one beat down. I find Dragonlord is "strong" enough to fight win against all these archetypes if it sticks. I tested Keranos and Teferi and I don't they they are "strong" enough to win as a transformative sideboard option.
(I don't imagine myself winning with Keranos or Teferi against something like Tron, UW or Hollowed One etc if they open with Turn 1 Leyline of the void. Silumgar (if it sticks) is strong enough to turn the tide in these scenarios)
- Planeswalkers are a pain in the neck...
Either way, I'm not claiming that my list is the 100% and all other gifts lists should follow this (in fact I don';t think we got a GP top 8 for a very long time). I'm posting ideas for us to refine and test together.
I found that Gifts Ungiven is an extremely "bad" card if your graveyard is disrupted.
(I think using as a double tutor is an extremely horrific use your mana and your resources, it significantly weakens your top deck in the matchups).
Gifts storm moved away from using Gifts as a tutor target and is strictly a combo piece.
I think the card has potential for 3 thing (if graveyard is hated):
- Grabbing lands (makes your top deck better) and moves toward hard casting reanimator targets) or using it to discard with Liliana
- Spell count -> Gifts storm is using it with thing in the ice to grab cantrips
- Using it to dump stuff like Eternal Scourge into your graveyard to fight stuff like rest in peace. (But I find this strategy got a bit worse after terminus, but I may bring the Scourge back one day)
The big question I have is what "trans formative" options do we have available?
I don't see why you couldn't replace a Darkslick Shores with a Creeping Tar Pit to be honest, doesn't change your fixing at all and one usually can afford 2 EtB-tapped lands. I might indeed try Clique in the mainboard some time soon, possibly even Silumgar in certain matchups (possibly a nice option in games 2 and 3 against UWx and Tron, although RiP is an issue). It is true that Gifts loses a lot of its versatility when graveyard hate is present, however most of the time my plan was to fight right through it with Maelstrom Pulse, Assassin's Trophy, Abrupt Decay (you see why I like the inclusion of G) and early discard. A nice anecdote right here, recently I got hit by an Unmoored Ego turn 3 on the draw taking all 4 Gifts from the deck, a game which I nevertheless won simply due to outgrinding through topdecks, where the manlands (and Raven's Crime) turned out to be key. So in the end we do not depend on Gifts as heavily as one might be inclined to think.
Another idea: Since you are in R already, have you tried (or thought about) Madcap Experiment + Platinum Emperion? You do not seem to have an artifact package in your 75 (due to the lack of Loam/Ruins) and this particular tech 'just' takes 5 slots in the sideboard while kind of changing the angle of attack while profiting from the lack of hard removal postboard. I'm just making up stuff right now, but it might be worth testing.
I don't see why you couldn't replace a Darkslick Shores with a Creeping Tar Pit to be honest, doesn't change your fixing at all and one usually can afford 2 EtB-tapped lands. I might indeed try Clique in the mainboard some time soon, possibly even Silumgar in certain matchups (possibly a nice option in games 2 and 3 against UWx and Tron, although RiP is an issue). It is true that Gifts loses a lot of its versatility when graveyard hate is present, however most of the time my plan was to fight right through it with Maelstrom Pulse, Assassin's Trophy, Abrupt Decay (you see why I like the inclusion of G) and early discard. A nice anecdote right here, recently I got hit by an Unmoored Ego turn 3 on the draw taking all 4 Gifts from the deck, a game which I nevertheless won simply due to outgrinding through topdecks, where the manlands (and Raven's Crime) turned out to be key. So in the end we do not depend on Gifts as heavily as one might be inclined to think.
Another idea: Since you are in R already, have you tried (or thought about) Madcap Experiment + Platinum Emperion? You do not seem to have an artifact package in your 75 (due to the lack of Loam/Ruins) and this particular tech 'just' takes 5 slots in the sideboard while kind of changing the angle of attack while profiting from the lack of hard removal postboard. I'm just making up stuff right now, but it might be worth testing.
- I like how we're both brainstorming. I personally don't see too much value in having a creeping tarpit. I much rather have the uptapped land (4 color manabase is really painful)
- I was just posting about the madcap Experiment and Platinum above. I think its a good idea, I'm thinking its mostly for matchups like UR Phoenix, Burn, Dredge, Hollowed One, and Blood Moon matchups. I could see myself playing no spellbombs and no timely and going this route.
UR Phoenix -> Yes board it in, its backbreaking.
Bant Spirits -> Anticipate 4 rest in peace, board it in? Even if they path it, its still a 1 for 1?
Burn -> Definitely board it in
Death's Shadow -> still board it in, anticipate playing around surgicals
Affinity/ harden scales -> YES
hollowed One -> YES
Eldrazi Aggro -> YES
Tron -> yes, nice to have more threats
Dredge -> Yes
JUND/ Uwx -> no
KCI -> no, it does nothing to their combo with the spellbomb
valakut -> no
Living End/ Grishoulbrand -> No
Through the breach - > no
I think it makes alot of sense to board it in, it reduces the need to play cards like Timely Reinforcements and can allow you to play something like 2 ways to remove leyline/ rest in peace and allows transformative. Maybe I'll give it a second try.
The second option is actually the Nahiri Emarkul Package. -> 1 Nahiri + 1 Emarkul.
Well, Tar Pit gives you another win condition while also not weakening your manabase since it equally produces U/B just like Darkslick Shores. You don't have particularly many 1-drops, so the EtB clause doesn't affect you basically. Even lists with 6-7 T1 discard spells run the Tar Pit, although they should suffer much more from the tempo loss. And even if so, it rarely is your only land in hand, so T1 you should be always able to produce B.
Oh, I did not see your mention of the Madcap/Emperion combo. I am mostly on board with your sideboard plan, though I'm not sure if I would board it in against Spirits so much, since you most likely can't attack through all of their guys and are bound to wait until you find something to deal with them, which gives them a window of just finding path. If RiP is an issue for your build (which I suppose it is due to the lack of G), you could run Disenchant effects (like Wear//Tear as you do) or even Anguished Unmaking if you dare in certain matchups. Not particularly for enchantments, but have you had a look at Bedevil? And yes, if you already run Nahiri, you might as well throw in a single spaghetti monster for good measure, you can always loot it away or discard it to Brutality/Clique, although shuffling your GY doesn't seem to be the nicest strategy.
Also Tarpit does great when you manage to get a stalled boardstate, it allows you to keep putting pressure on them while keeping blockers to keep yourself safe.
I played against- Hollow One, ArcLight, Traditional Jund, Creeping Dredge, BG Elves. I lost to dredge and hollow one but made top 8 then lost to the same dredge deck in the second round of the cut to Top 8. End result was- 4-3
Notes: Unmoored Ego is combo and tron hate; Flaying tendrils is great for low and aggressive decks and the exile is key against arclight and dredge with the plus that caryatid lives through it. I've dropped Terrastadon as I think a low to the ground aggressive plan of attack is going to work better than reanimator plan against Tron variants. With Unmoored Egoand Fulminator Mage working to keep them off tron and Sun titan to loop the mage or ghost quarter.
I have been testing the Ramp package in place of the discard package and I think my experience with it so far is that its the better package. It helps protect our greedy mana base. I have found this version to be far better against Ponze, blood moon, and fulminators, and allows us to save a few points of life with fetch/shocks which helps us to survive to the late game. A t3 gifts/ t4 unburial can just win games that discard and T4 gifts wouldn't win us.
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Creeping Tar Pit
1x Field of Ruin
1x Flooded Strand
1x Forest
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Godless Shrine
2x Hallowed Fountain
1x Island
2x Overgrown Tomb
1x Plains
2x Polluted Delta
1x Snow-Covered Plains
1x Snow-Covered Swamp
2x Temple Garden
1x Verdant Catacombs
1x Watery Grave
2x Windswept Heath
Spot Removal (9)
2x Abrupt Decay
1x Assassin's Trophy
2x Detention Sphere
1x Maelstrom Pulse
3x Path to Exile
1x Eternal Witness
1x Liliana, Death's Majesty
1x Liliana, the Last Hope
1x Sun Titan
Self Discard (8)
1x Champion of Wits
3x Collective Brutality
4x Lingering Souls
Wrath Package (3)
1x Day of Judgment
1x Supreme Verdict
1x Wrath of God
Unburial Package (3)
1x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1x Iona, Shield of Emeria
1x Unburial Rites
Ramp (6)
2x Sakura-Tribe Elder
4x Sylvan Caryatid
Gifts (4)
4x Gifts Ungiven
2x Damping Sphere
2x Flaying Tendrils
2x Fulminator Mage
2x Knight of Autumn
2x Knight of the Reliquary
1x Life from the Loam
1x Raven's Crime
2x Stony Silence
1x Unmoored Ego
4c Gifts Deck Stats: https://bit.ly/2XMPrlY
https://pucatrade.com/invite/gift/120495
You make a great case for the ramp creatures. I especially like Caryatid because of the hexproof. Do you think 4 is excessive? How often were you disappointed to see her as a top deck late game?
I may start testing a list similar to yours, with heavier white for sweepers and Sun Titan. Do you feel Liliana of the Veil or Jace, Vryn's Prodigy have any place in here? Even as 1x each
Draft My Cube!
4c Gifts Deck Stats: https://bit.ly/2XMPrlY
https://pucatrade.com/invite/gift/120495
4 Sylvan Caryatid
2 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Eternal Witness
1 Fulminator Mage
1 Sun Titan
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
Spells (21)
4 Gifts Ungiven
4 Lingering Souls
3 Collective Brutality
2 Fatal Push
1 Path to exile
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Assassin's Trophy
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Unburial Rites
1 Wrath of God
1 Day of Judgment
1 Supreme Verdict
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the last hope
1 Nihil Spellbomb
Lands (24)
4 Marsh flats
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Polluted delta
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Watery grave
1 Godless Shrine
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Temple Garden
1 Fetid Heath
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Field of Ruin
2 Swamp
2 Plains
1 Island
1 Forest
1 Thoughtseize
1 Duress
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Raven's Crime
1 Life from the Loam
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Extirpate
1 Unmoored Ego
1 Knight of Autumn
1 Negate
1 Countersquall
1 Fracturing Gust
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Academy Ruins
My first idea
Draft My Cube!
I would move fulminator to sb, snap to main, snap will have far more utility than Fulminator.
You could also drop the Urborg for a bojuka bog. While the urborg is normally part of the loam/crime with 4 caryitids we can generally crime multiple times a turn without urborg and its extra grave hate.
The 15 different cards in your sideboard doesn't seem to have any pattern. While we are using gifts and want to maximize it's power we shouldn't pick cards of different names solely for names sake.
I would also say 1 IOK and 1 thoughtseize in the board isn't worth their slots- You are not likely to have them in the first 2 turns where they would be helpful for their match types.
A single KoR in the 75 is really helpful for getting to your utility lands and can provide a clock for decks we need to pressure.
Honest question: What deck are you planning on bringing Sigarda in for? It seems its only good to fight emrakul/LOTV emblems and heavy removal decks.
4c Gifts Deck Stats: https://bit.ly/2XMPrlY
https://pucatrade.com/invite/gift/120495
Recently had some time for testing and slightly refining the list, although my experience is mostly constrained to games against either control or midrange. Lately I tested against a deck that essentially was Jeff Hooglands Sultai Control list, let alone a few slots that were changed depending on things going on locally at an FNM level. All in all I was quite satisfied, I had a winning record in both pre- and post board games (turns out Unmoored Ego isn't quite as good against Gifts as one might think). The only thing that I found really annoying was the Birds of Paradise. The rate at which one can cast T2 LotV is much lower than I expected (even after crunching the numbers it still feels like its happening too rarely), hence I decided to cut the Birds and increase the threat density (which almost was an issue if not Lingering Souls tokens going all the way in the end, since Elesh/Iona + the manlands and Loam were exiled due to a timely Nihil Spellbomb). I replaced the Birds with Raven's Crime, the all-star in grindy matchups, the 25th land (the 3rd Marsh Flats, in fact) and a single Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet which has won a game on all of its own. Kalitas is pretty neat in this kind of deck, we are pretty heavy on removal, so if the sticks for a couple of turns, the advantage gets close to insurmountable, putting aside the lifegain all together. The list looks like this:
2 Snapcaster Mage
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
Land
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Temple Garden
1 Watery Grave
1 Godless Shrine
1 Breeding Pool
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Academy Ruins
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Forest
1 Island
3 Marsh Flats
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Plains
1 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Celestial Colonnade
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Ensnaring Bridge
Instant
4 Gifts Ungiven
1 Path to Exile
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Fatal Push
2 Assassin's Trophy
Sorcery
1 Life from the Loam
1 Damnation
1 Raven's Crime
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Unburial Rites
2 Lingering Souls
2 Thoughtseize
1 Collective Brutality
Planeswalker
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Liliana of the Veil
3 Stony Silence
2 Torpor Orb
1 Batterskull
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Spellskite
1 Extirpate
4 Surgical Extraction
1 Collective Brutality
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
Ensnaring Bridge is essentially there to test it, the intention is obvious I guess and is suppose to hold back aggressive strategies, whereas it has also helped allocating some time against Celestial Colonnades and alikes. Additionally, it can be searched for in a Gifts pile if urgently needed, although that might be a corner case. The only thing I'm uncertain about is the sideboard. I have pretty much liked Crucible against UWx decks, especially in conjunction with Raven's Crime if Loam doesn't happen to be present. Hitting land drops indefinitely feels pretty strong after all, making the deck inevitable against multiple Field of Ruin and Ghost Quarter effects. Torpor Orb is nice against Humans, especially on the play, LtLH is recursion for matchups such as Jund/Junk, where the '-2' grants some value with Snapcaster or Kalitas. Tron is of course a nightmare with this build. The rest is pretty much standard, however comments and discussions are of course welcome.
23 Lands
========
3 => Polluted Delta
4 => Flooded Strand
3 => Marsh Flats
1 => Hallowed Fountain
1 => Godless Shrine
1 => Watery Grave
1 => Blood Crypt
1 => Steam Vents
1 => Sacred Foundry
1 => Island
1 => Swamp
1 => Planes
4 => Darkslick Shores
14 Creatures
===========
1 => Iona, Shield of Emeria
2 => Dragonlord Silumgar
1 => Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
4 => Vendilion Clique
4 => Jace, Vyrn's Prodigy
2 => Notion Thief
5 Planeswalkers
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3 => Liliana of the Veil
2 => Nahiri, the Harbringer
20 Instant/ Sorcery
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3 => Fatal Push
3 => Path to Exile
4 => Collective Brutality
2 => Kolaghan's Command
4 => Gifts Ungiven
1 => Worm Harvest
1 => Unburial Rites
15 Sideboard
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2 => Kolaghan's Command
2 => Wear // Tear
3 => Timely Reinforcements
2 => Damnation
2 => Thoughtseize
3 => Fulminator Mage
1 => Sun Titan
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I been playing with this alot and I really like it. This is Dark Jeskai Gifts.
1) I'm pushing my discard/ filter to the very maximum with 3 Liliana of the Veil, 4 Jace VP, 4 Vendilion Cliques, 4 Collective Bruality and 2 Nahiri.
I find clique being able to target yourself to push Iona back into your deck + draw a card is just amazing. I went to the full 4 (I been on 3 for a long time) to fight UW a bit better, and since the rest of the deck is all discard anyways, I can loot away extra cliques with my other effects
2) I found the hidden benefit of playing with this much looting effect is you can play a higher curve -> as noted 2 Notion Thieves, 2 Nahiri, 2 Draglord Silumgar. Silumgar was original a re-animator target against Tron/ Jund. I liked it alot that I pushed a second in the main.
I think of Notion Thief and Nahiri as gifts 5-6 depending on the matchup; they're both pretty backbreaking if resolves. Notion thief's second purpose is to "support" liliana. Liliana isn't very good if your opponent has very good card advantage (i.e. UW control). Thief can help to ensure liliana is always good. Nahiri can remove problematic enchantments like blood moon, leylines and rest in peace in longer games
3) Wurm harvest is for the play of gifts for 3 lands + wurms against decks like Abzan (if it still exists) or UW control or an emergency second bullet if your reanimator plan A fails. I really like it
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Now that's a spicy list for sure, however, let me make some remarks: First and foremost 23 lands sounds like 1 or 2 too little, depending on the exact version. Usually, 4 lands is the minimum for this deck, so you consistently want to hit your land drops for the first 4 turns, which is not an easy task without cantrips. Another thing I have enjoyed playing was manlands (2 seems like the sweet spot), specifically Celestial Colonnade and Creeping Tar Pit, alternatively Shambling Vent if you are bound to a budget, although the Tar Pit is rather cheap at the moment. Then, what about utility lands such as Field of Ruin/Ghost Quarter? I can't comment on specific choices, but do you really want 4 JVPs in your deck? The same comes to mind for the Clique. Have you considered Terminate, Dreadbore or even Bedevil for dealing with planeswalkers? This (thoroughly needed) role is normally covered by Abrupt Decay, Assassin's Trophy ad Maelstrom Pulse in the green sector of the deck. You could e.g. replace a Brutality with one of these or even cut a Path for good measure.
- I find having 4 Jace Vryn's Prodigy allows you to cheat slightly on your mana and allows you to 'get away' with playing not only 23 lands but a 4 color mana base.
- I played 3 cliques for a long time. The case is Clique has outperformed in killing planeswalkers, ambushing attackers, cliquing yourself to push Iona back into your deck, helping you hit your 4th land drop, disrupting the opponent, etc that I went all the way up to 4. Its just been way too good. Clique is not to do X but it just does so much that I went up to 4
- 4 Brutalities was really that it is the "best" hand disruption in the deck. I used to play a split of inquistion and brutalities, but brutality has just done alot of work.
- Red is more of a "free" splash color for K command and Nahiri which are just excellent at answering disruption in the form of Relic, cage, Rest in Peace etc. I really don't want to go into red if I could avoid it. I played esper for a while and I found with Jace VP, and this much loot effects, this red splash is essentially "free"
- I could see myself cutting a path for a dreadbore. In fact, I could see myself going something like 4 pushes, 2 dreadbores and moving my 75 with white being more or less a splash color. In the sense, I could turn 1-2 need UB, Turn 3, need Red, Turn 4 needs White to combo off.
(Extra Note)
- I'm going 3 timely reinforcements for:
1) the dredge/ Mardu pyromancer matchups to put out tokens/ buy then. Combo out Elesh Norn, get 3 3/3 and try to kill 1-2 turns. I find this is a much more effective stragety to beating these decks than packing grave hate
2) The Jund matchup to combat Liliana.
3) Burn and aggressive strategies etc.
2-3 madcap Experiment
1-2 Platinum Emperion
Helps to "transform" against decks trying to grave hate you out, cannot be hit by moon, Fights through sanctity.
Regarding the 4th colour, in my experience no splash is 'for free', and even more so in an 4C deck. I would suggest that you try at least 2 manlands in your list, they work great in grindy matchups and are often hard to deal with threats. I guess your plan against manlands is Push/Path? More traditional Gifts builds mostly dedicated two land slots to utility lands (such as Academy Ruins or Tectonic Edge/Ghost Quarter), you could go with 1 with only 23 lands if you feel like it. Also, no basic Mountain?
- I guess you could say my 4th color forced me out of manlands, ghost quarters and fields etc (which I was never really fond of when I was on esper)
- My decks' theory with Jace is I want them to point cards at it. (as long as I don;t get edict by lilana or reflector maged) I'm usually fine with the trade. I view Jace more as a setup card rather than my tarmogofy. I've noticed that if my opponent's are pointing removal at my jace, its not directed at my cliques, reanimator targets or my life total and can disrupt their tempo. Jace has been incredibly important to loot in non-interactive matchups to power out the combo.
(I always say on turn 1, I want to be thoughtseized because this is often the least threatening thing my opponent can do)
- Silumgar was original a rites target to deal with Liliana and Karn. It was often my go to win strategy against Tron is to steal their karn as life from the loam and any strategy is often just too slow.
- I want to enter an attrition style strategy where my opponents are trading one for one with me and we enter a more topdeck situation, and in these scenarios, top decking K commands, Jace, Dragonlord really shines.
- We have 4 Brutalities, liliana and cliques to try to clear the way to try to protect the silumgar
The second Silumgar is more of an open question:
- people usually board out hard removal in the form of terminates, paths etc as they don't work well against Iona
- Cards like Keranos or Teferi in my opinion are just not good options in a format filled with Karns from ETron and Tron, Jace from UW or Hollowed one beat down. I find Dragonlord is "strong" enough to fight win against all these archetypes if it sticks. I tested Keranos and Teferi and I don't they they are "strong" enough to win as a transformative sideboard option.
(I don't imagine myself winning with Keranos or Teferi against something like Tron, UW or Hollowed One etc if they open with Turn 1 Leyline of the void. Silumgar (if it sticks) is strong enough to turn the tide in these scenarios)
- Planeswalkers are a pain in the neck...
(I think using as a double tutor is an extremely horrific use your mana and your resources, it significantly weakens your top deck in the matchups).
Gifts storm moved away from using Gifts as a tutor target and is strictly a combo piece.
I think the card has potential for 3 thing (if graveyard is hated):
- Grabbing lands (makes your top deck better) and moves toward hard casting reanimator targets) or using it to discard with Liliana
- Spell count -> Gifts storm is using it with thing in the ice to grab cantrips
- Using it to dump stuff like Eternal Scourge into your graveyard to fight stuff like rest in peace. (But I find this strategy got a bit worse after terminus, but I may bring the Scourge back one day)
The big question I have is what "trans formative" options do we have available?
Another idea: Since you are in R already, have you tried (or thought about) Madcap Experiment + Platinum Emperion? You do not seem to have an artifact package in your 75 (due to the lack of Loam/Ruins) and this particular tech 'just' takes 5 slots in the sideboard while kind of changing the angle of attack while profiting from the lack of hard removal postboard. I'm just making up stuff right now, but it might be worth testing.
- I like how we're both brainstorming. I personally don't see too much value in having a creeping tarpit. I much rather have the uptapped land (4 color manabase is really painful)
- I was just posting about the madcap Experiment and Platinum above. I think its a good idea, I'm thinking its mostly for matchups like UR Phoenix, Burn, Dredge, Hollowed One, and Blood Moon matchups. I could see myself playing no spellbombs and no timely and going this route.
UR Phoenix -> Yes board it in, its backbreaking.
Bant Spirits -> Anticipate 4 rest in peace, board it in? Even if they path it, its still a 1 for 1?
Burn -> Definitely board it in
Death's Shadow -> still board it in, anticipate playing around surgicals
Affinity/ harden scales -> YES
hollowed One -> YES
Eldrazi Aggro -> YES
Tron -> yes, nice to have more threats
Dredge -> Yes
JUND/ Uwx -> no
KCI -> no, it does nothing to their combo with the spellbomb
valakut -> no
Living End/ Grishoulbrand -> No
Through the breach - > no
I think it makes alot of sense to board it in, it reduces the need to play cards like Timely Reinforcements and can allow you to play something like 2 ways to remove leyline/ rest in peace and allows transformative. Maybe I'll give it a second try.
The second option is actually the Nahiri Emarkul Package. -> 1 Nahiri + 1 Emarkul.
Oh, I did not see your mention of the Madcap/Emperion combo. I am mostly on board with your sideboard plan, though I'm not sure if I would board it in against Spirits so much, since you most likely can't attack through all of their guys and are bound to wait until you find something to deal with them, which gives them a window of just finding path. If RiP is an issue for your build (which I suppose it is due to the lack of G), you could run Disenchant effects (like Wear//Tear as you do) or even Anguished Unmaking if you dare in certain matchups. Not particularly for enchantments, but have you had a look at Bedevil? And yes, if you already run Nahiri, you might as well throw in a single spaghetti monster for good measure, you can always loot it away or discard it to Brutality/Clique, although shuffling your GY doesn't seem to be the nicest strategy.
4c Gifts Deck Stats: https://bit.ly/2XMPrlY
https://pucatrade.com/invite/gift/120495