If we're going to go esper, would Bob be out of place for card advantage or is he more of a tempo card? The Esper-Blade lists I saw recently used him.
I am very iffy about him. I run a lot of four drops so I think he should stay out of my build. I am not usually fond of taking 4 from a cryptic command or 5 from my one of batterskull.
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I am very iffy about him. I run a lot of four drops so I think he should stay out of my build. I am not usually fond of taking 4 from a cryptic command or 5 from my one of batterskull.
Fair enough; I suppose that's why he's usually only in tempo decks. I'll test him regardless, but I'll probably end up in the same spot you described.
So what are peoples thoughts on the new lists that are going 4-0 with 3 to 4 Restoration Angels? They cut Squadron Hawk, Elspeth and Spell Pierce in favor of Kitchen Finks, Dismember, Spell Snare (x4) and more Vendilion Cliques for Angel targets. I know the debate of Squadron Hawk vs. Lingering Souls has been discussed before and honestly I'm in the camp of Hawk due to the thinning and ability to play defensively. That aside the question here is "Is the midrange Angel-Blade better than the traditional caw-blade lists that were going 4-0." Thoughts?
I know most people have dropped the sword package, but i still think that if i can get the correct on the board (and usually i can) then the game´s almost mine. I wanted to put shackles in here, but still havent tested them, and i dont know what to cut, suppose a sword or two.
I know most people have dropped the sword package, but i still think that if i can get the correct on the board (and usually i can) then the game´s almost mine. I wanted to put shackles in here, but still havent tested them, and i dont know what to cut, suppose a sword or two.
All ideas or toughts are welcome.
This looks very similar to a list I ran a few months ago when it was "paper" Modern Season. I think Vedalken Shackles is a must, although I don't know how the meta has changed. I would cut 2 Swords for the Shackles. I always thought that Caw Blade had a very good chance of beating most decks. Affinity is very tough though.
I ran nearly this exact list -SoFI and SoWaP + 2 Shackles at 2 Modern PTQs. The 1st one, I missed top 8 because of a stupid play mistake vs. Jund in the 2nd to last round, finishing 6-2. The next PTQ was a nightmare for me because 2 consecutive Jund opponents "drew me out" when they knew they would lose (I was 4-0 before this), then I made 1 play mistake during the final round vs. the mirror to finish 4-1-2.
I've found that Sword of War and Peace was unnecessary. I thought it would be good vs. the mirror match, but you will hardly ever run into one. It also is not necessary vs. RDW. There are other cards that are better. I like to have 2 MB Kitchen Finks and 2 SB Kitchen Finks. I also SB 2 Wrath of God in case of some type of Aggro.
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Shackles have been awesome, and i realized with them i dont need so many swords. I kept SoWaP on the sb, just in case i need it on the mirror or agaisnt boros, but with gut shot, i dont think i will, so it may have to be cut eventually.
Shackles have been awesome, and i realized with them i dont need so many swords. I kept SoWaP on the sb, just in case i need it on the mirror or agaisnt boros, but with gut shot, i dont think i will, so it may have to be cut eventually.
How are the belerens working for you? I found that they slowed me down too much to include.
Well, i would have to say that jace is not strictly necessary for the deck, but it sure helps to have him around. And a lot.
I mean, i usually get to draw 4~5 extra cards from him before he is killed (if he is, at all) and that is enough of an advantage to turn the tides, or finish a game.
Worst case escenario he takes the hit for you, since the opponent really doesnt like a blue control deck drawing 2 cards a turn for 4 turns. They will aim for jace as soon as an you give them a chance.
He is sometimes slow, specially when you want to hold your mana for a leak or something, but i dont remember a game in wich i was unhappy to see him.
I have hard many ppl discussing if caw-blades is better as a control or tempo deck, and i think it can go both ways, making a few fixes here or there.
Still, i prefer it as control.
On another note, i changed 4 hawks for 4 restoration angels, to see if the hype was justified.
And trust me, it is.
Edit: The more time passes, the more old caw-blade and the tempo U/w decks seem to fuse, making the borderline really blurry. Now they both play restoration angel, and the hawks/souls seem outdated.
Lets just clear something up before this discussion goes any further.
Caw-Blade is NOT , in any way, shape, or form, a tempo deck. It is a control deck. And a control deck is what Caw-Blade will remain as. If you start adding in Geist's and Delvers then you are COMPLETELY changing archetypes. If you exclude Squadron Hawk, you are completely changing archetypes. Squadron Hawks have a specific job in this deck and they CANNOT be replaced if you are playing "Caw-Blade".
With 4 Restoration Angel's I am not even sure you can keep Caw-Blade Caw-Blade. I have matched up against plenty of these resto versions and my Cryptic Command does a LOT more work than that flash flyer can do. With Restoration Angel in the deck, it turns into either Flicker Control, or just your normal UW/UWb control or tempo deck. Caw-Blade is not your regular old control deck, it's Caw-Blade.
And sorry sir, but no, I do not trust you. I mean seriously, you are replacing four 2cmc's for four 4cmc's. That's absurd. If you are playing a REAL version of Caw-Blade then you have entirely too many four CMC's and your curve has to be WAY off.
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With 4 Restoration Angel's I am not even sure you can keep Caw-Blade Caw-Blade. I have matched up against plenty of these resto versions and my Cryptic Command does a LOT more work than that flash flyer can do. With Restoration Angel in the deck, it turns into either Flicker Control, or just your normal UW/UWb control or tempo deck. Caw-Blade is not your regular old control deck, it's Caw-Blade.
And sorry sir, but no, I do not trust you. I mean seriously, you are replacing four 2cmc's for four 4cmc's. That's absurd. If you are playing a REAL version of Caw-Blade then you have entirely too many four CMC's and your curve has to be WAY off.
I never even tried to put delvers or geists in here, they are clearly another deck´s business, as good a card as they are.
I do differ on the angel´s and hawks tough.
Replacing a 4 cmc with a 2 cmc seems odd, and i tought that too, but flash is the part where you are wrong.
As nice as hawks are, YOU NEVER want to play them T2 (unless you want to clock something, say Tron, and even then, a 1/1 doesnt clock anybody) not even T3, at best T4 if you have a mana leak.
Now, an angel can be played at T4 too, and at the same time, lets your mana open for not only a mana leak, but for a more important Cryptic.
I dont know how many 4 cmcs you play, but have no problems with playing 4 angels and 4 CC. The deck would get really awkward if the angel didnt have flash, but she has, so thats that.
Angels can carry blades as well as a hawk can since, as i explained before, both cards are played on T4 optimally, and you can play sword/equip on T5, assuming you didnt miss any land drops, which you should playing 25~6.
Not only that, but an angel can be a threat by herself, while hawks . . . well, lets just say a 1/1 doesnt seem too intimidating. They may be good chump blockers, but an angel can block AND survive most of the time.
The card advantage is a downside to not playing hawks, i wont deny that, but I at least havent missed it.
In my opinion its still the same deck, do you want to change the deck´s name? If it doesnt have hawks its not caw-blade? Fine by me.
I will just play "whatever control" then.
Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
So, with "restoration angel geist of saint traft" based decks needing their own discussion thread; where does that leave the progression of this strategy? Are there still players working on uw control?
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Decks I have in my bag of tricks- Needless to say, someone who wants to play will probably have a deck UB/x Faeries UR Storm XURWB Affinity G Elves UW control
Now I know that Caw control are pretty tight lists and that I am not the most certified person to be trying to improve the deck but I always wondered if Celestial Crusader could be a viable replacement or even an addition to Clique in a variant.
Throw in some Moorland Haunt and turn all those 1/1 fliers into a legitimate clock.
The only thing that is unsettling to me is Snappy and Clique both aren't white.
Just some thoughts.
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Decks-
Standard:
I have hated standard since fae left
Modern:
:symu::symb::symw: Teachings
:symu::symb: Teachings
Legacy:
Goblins
:symu::symb: Ninja Stompy
Pauper:
:symu::symb::symr: Teachings
:symu::symw: 8 Post
Edh:
:symr::symb: Lyzolda, the Blood Witch
Arcum Daagson
It seems like playing a lot of creatures is better in the hawk lists than playing more permission. Do you get the feeling that tapping out for finks/hawks is usually better than leaving up mana for counter spells? I guess thats the main distinction here, how you use your mana early, and how much you care about putting on pressure. Its certainly not a tempo deck, but if its a control deck Id be scared to play more than hawks/cliques/snaps and thats it. Geists and whatnot seem to make it more of a UW tempo deck.
UWU/W BlinkUW
BMono-Black ControlB
Commander:
GWUJenaraGWU
BGeth MBCB
RGXenagosRG
WUBSharuumWUB (retired)
Modern:
xAffinityx (starting)
Standard:
Ha! That's a good one.
I am very iffy about him. I run a lot of four drops so I think he should stay out of my build. I am not usually fond of taking 4 from a cryptic command or 5 from my one of batterskull.
Signature by Rivenor of Miraculous Recovery Signatures
"In response.. Mana Leak?"
"Every game loss is due to your inability to interact with your opponent"
Fair enough; I suppose that's why he's usually only in tempo decks. I'll test him regardless, but I'll probably end up in the same spot you described.
UWU/W BlinkUW
BMono-Black ControlB
Commander:
GWUJenaraGWU
BGeth MBCB
RGXenagosRG
WUBSharuumWUB (retired)
Modern:
xAffinityx (starting)
Standard:
Ha! That's a good one.
Restoration Angel
4 Squadron Hawk
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Vendilion Clique
Spells
3 Path to Exile
3 Spell Snare
2 Spell Pierce
4 Mana Leak
4 Cryptic Command
2 Jace Beleren
Artifacts
2 Sword if Feast and Famine
1 Sword if Ice and Fire
1 Sword of War and Peace
1 Steelshaper´s Gift
Lands
3 Seachrome Coast
2 Celestial Colonnade
2 Mutavault
3 Hallowed Fountain
7 Island
2 Moorland Haunt
3 Glacial Fortress
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Stony Silence
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Wrath of God
2 Dispel
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
2 Engineered Explosives
I know most people have dropped the sword package, but i still think that if i can get the correct on the board (and usually i can) then the game´s almost mine. I wanted to put shackles in here, but still havent tested them, and i dont know what to cut, suppose a sword or two.
All ideas or toughts are welcome.
This looks very similar to a list I ran a few months ago when it was "paper" Modern Season. I think Vedalken Shackles is a must, although I don't know how the meta has changed. I would cut 2 Swords for the Shackles. I always thought that Caw Blade had a very good chance of beating most decks. Affinity is very tough though.
I ran nearly this exact list -SoFI and SoWaP + 2 Shackles at 2 Modern PTQs. The 1st one, I missed top 8 because of a stupid play mistake vs. Jund in the 2nd to last round, finishing 6-2. The next PTQ was a nightmare for me because 2 consecutive Jund opponents "drew me out" when they knew they would lose (I was 4-0 before this), then I made 1 play mistake during the final round vs. the mirror to finish 4-1-2.
I've found that Sword of War and Peace was unnecessary. I thought it would be good vs. the mirror match, but you will hardly ever run into one. It also is not necessary vs. RDW. There are other cards that are better. I like to have 2 MB Kitchen Finks and 2 SB Kitchen Finks. I also SB 2 Wrath of God in case of some type of Aggro.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)4 Squadron Hawk
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Vendilion Clique
Spells
3 Path to Exile
3 Spell Snare
2 Spell Pierce
4 Mana Leak
4 Cryptic Command
3 Jace Beleren
1 Sword if Feast and Famine
1 Sword if Ice and Fire
2 Vedalken Shackles
Lands
3 Seachrome Coast
2 Celestial Colonnade
3 Hallowed Fountain
8 Island
3 Glacial Fortress
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Tectonic edge
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Sword of War and Peace
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Wrath of God
2 Disenchant
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
2 Gut Shot
3 Kitchen Finks
Shackles have been awesome, and i realized with them i dont need so many swords. I kept SoWaP on the sb, just in case i need it on the mirror or agaisnt boros, but with gut shot, i dont think i will, so it may have to be cut eventually.
How are the belerens working for you? I found that they slowed me down too much to include.
I mean, i usually get to draw 4~5 extra cards from him before he is killed (if he is, at all) and that is enough of an advantage to turn the tides, or finish a game.
Worst case escenario he takes the hit for you, since the opponent really doesnt like a blue control deck drawing 2 cards a turn for 4 turns. They will aim for jace as soon as an you give them a chance.
He is sometimes slow, specially when you want to hold your mana for a leak or something, but i dont remember a game in wich i was unhappy to see him.
Still, i prefer it as control.
Lets just clear something up before this discussion goes any further.
Caw-Blade is NOT , in any way, shape, or form, a tempo deck. It is a control deck. And a control deck is what Caw-Blade will remain as. If you start adding in Geist's and Delvers then you are COMPLETELY changing archetypes. If you exclude Squadron Hawk, you are completely changing archetypes. Squadron Hawks have a specific job in this deck and they CANNOT be replaced if you are playing "Caw-Blade".
With 4 Restoration Angel's I am not even sure you can keep Caw-Blade Caw-Blade. I have matched up against plenty of these resto versions and my Cryptic Command does a LOT more work than that flash flyer can do. With Restoration Angel in the deck, it turns into either Flicker Control, or just your normal UW/UWb control or tempo deck. Caw-Blade is not your regular old control deck, it's Caw-Blade.
And sorry sir, but no, I do not trust you. I mean seriously, you are replacing four 2cmc's for four 4cmc's. That's absurd. If you are playing a REAL version of Caw-Blade then you have entirely too many four CMC's and your curve has to be WAY off.
Signature by Rivenor of Miraculous Recovery Signatures
"In response.. Mana Leak?"
"Every game loss is due to your inability to interact with your opponent"
I never even tried to put delvers or geists in here, they are clearly another deck´s business, as good a card as they are.
I do differ on the angel´s and hawks tough.
Replacing a 4 cmc with a 2 cmc seems odd, and i tought that too, but flash is the part where you are wrong.
As nice as hawks are, YOU NEVER want to play them T2 (unless you want to clock something, say Tron, and even then, a 1/1 doesnt clock anybody) not even T3, at best T4 if you have a mana leak.
Now, an angel can be played at T4 too, and at the same time, lets your mana open for not only a mana leak, but for a more important Cryptic.
I dont know how many 4 cmcs you play, but have no problems with playing 4 angels and 4 CC. The deck would get really awkward if the angel didnt have flash, but she has, so thats that.
Angels can carry blades as well as a hawk can since, as i explained before, both cards are played on T4 optimally, and you can play sword/equip on T5, assuming you didnt miss any land drops, which you should playing 25~6.
Not only that, but an angel can be a threat by herself, while hawks . . . well, lets just say a 1/1 doesnt seem too intimidating. They may be good chump blockers, but an angel can block AND survive most of the time.
The card advantage is a downside to not playing hawks, i wont deny that, but I at least havent missed it.
In my opinion its still the same deck, do you want to change the deck´s name? If it doesnt have hawks its not caw-blade? Fine by me.
I will just play "whatever control" then.
UB/x Faeries
UR Storm
XURWB Affinity
G Elves
UW control
That said, I clearly haven't been able to keep the OP looking nice. If anyone would like to take over, PM me.
Throw in some Moorland Haunt and turn all those 1/1 fliers into a legitimate clock.
The only thing that is unsettling to me is Snappy and Clique both aren't white.
Just some thoughts.
Standard:
I have hated standard since fae left
Modern:
:symu::symb::symw: Teachings
:symu::symb: Teachings
Legacy:
Goblins
:symu::symb: Ninja Stompy
Pauper:
:symu::symb::symr: Teachings
:symu::symw: 8 Post
Edh:
:symr::symb: Lyzolda, the Blood Witch
Arcum Daagson
I'm running
4 Snapcaster
4 Geist
4 Hawks
2 Cliques
------------------------------------------
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