The problem with defining this format by what is "fun" is that everyone seems to define fun as what they don't lose to. If you keep losing to easily answered cards, that means you should improve your deck. If you don't want to improve your deck, then you should come to peace with the idea that you are going to lose because you chose to not interact with better strategies.
Just won my LGS modern event with a 3-0-1 finish. Caw is a really good list and I had the exact same deck that had the steel shaper's package except I only had one Vendilion Clique!
I don't post much in actual constructed format subforums, but with Dark Ascension being legal, what's everyone's opinion on Lingering Souls, either as a replacement (probably not) or additional copy of (likely/preferred) Squadron Hawk?
I raise this because a number of MODO lists jam a random Steam Vent to +1 Sunburst for Engineered Explosives. It's as easy to replace the Steam Vent with Watery Grave (or 2 Watery Grave, -1 Island), replace Arid Mesa with Marsh Flats, and also possibly jam 1 Swamp (adding value to Marsh Flats overall). Spells in most lists seem to be a mish-mosh, so there's no real card in particular I'd advocate for removing since there's no real consistency to spells and their quantities but for 4 Path to Exile; I, personally, am not playing Kitchen Finks main at the moment to try this out.
I'd recommend Lingering Souls for the deck because they function as essentially Squadron Hawks 6-20(/24 via Moorland Haunt), but are more-or-less immune to countermagic (and dodge the dreaded 2 cmc against Spell Snare).
Adding a Black splash also opens Pandora's box on content, such as discard, additional targeted removal, Dark Confidant, and Esper Charm, though adding enough Black to +1 Explosives, flashback Lingering Souls, and still have the option of effectively playing Vedalken Shackles makes that something I would personally advise against being tempted by (and this is as someone who loves Esper Charm and Confidant).
Anyway, +$0.02; feel free to tell me how awful I am at Magic and what a dumb nerd I am.
I'm thinking there's probably a better combination though (this one works for starter's) as there's some real weakness here to Ghost Quarter on the splash colours. Fortunately Blood Moon shouldn't be much worse as you have the basics still and Disenchant
Hawks can be turn 2 -- do you have spell snare? otherwise, I win.
Souls supplements that, where you have turn 2, turn 3, turn 4: oh, you had spell snare? that's okay; 2 fliers, followed by 2 more w/ counter backup. Souls is also a miserable counter target, whereas Hawk is an awesome one. Neither sits very well if your opponent has no answer (counter or otherwise) for them. Removing Hawk essentially makes Moorland Haunt, a card that is completely insane, worthless. I would say the two are good compliments to each other. Having a virtual 24 Hawks in only 9(-6, if you count the first hawk as a single card that finds 3 more) cards is pretty spicy both in the amount of pressure/cards and when opposing aggressive decks that may just run you over.
Re: the mana base, I wouldn't play Creeping Tar Pit, as it requires you to have additional Black in order to do anything, and having 4 toughness on your manland is, AFAIK, is a major selling point for Colonnade.
Pendelhaven, with the additional 1/1s, could substitute Tectonic Edge, I just like the Edge as an emergency miser's release valve.
The point of having only two "actual" black sources is that generally if you don't draw black, you're not mana screwed, while if you draw Swamp without Lingering Souls, you're effectively drawing a blank, colorless land with no abilities but to put an additional charge counter on Engineered Explosives, which you may not even have in hand in the first place (assuming game 1, not sided it, etc). You also get additional milage out of Marsh Flats and maximize your Misty Rainforest. I only include 1 Marsh Flats still because getting Islands for Shackles while still not auto-losing to Blood Moon is likely more important than occasionally not being able to search out Basic Swamp (which Flats gets basic and non basics of each non-island anyway).
I've thrown together a mock list on the MTG app and have been sample handing it. I've been seldom boned on mana, but for the traditional problem of having triple-blue spells and no triple-blue mana to cast them with. 6 ersatz black sources seems to work for me in super-initial testing.
@ Baneslayer- I was suggesting that you cut the cards I mentioned and play the two that I suggested. Whether you want to call that Caw-Blade or not is entirely up to you...
@ Kijin- Lingering Souls is not a bad idea- I would not replace Squadron Hawk in this deck though. I think you are maybe on the right track with Esper Charm, but Bob might be a stretch (I could be wrong though)...
I have already cut the Steam Vents (they were for SB'd Gut Shots aside from the +1 EE) for Watery Grave as I have taken a liking for Dismember over Gut Shot...
I am working on the Black splash...kind of like the Caw Blade in standard (not trying a 100% port, I get the formats are different) I want to have Tar Pit and discard.
Our worst matchup is a resolved planeswalker and Tron (big mana decks). Not much we can do about that I think.
Lingering Souls has a CMC of 3 always. Flashback is an alternate casting cost that does not alter the original, so you can not spell snare Lingering Souls....ever.
Against combo, what I like the most about Squadron Hawk is that it costs 2 mana per Hawk. This makes it much easier to hold countermagic or removal mana up than Lingering Souls's initial cost does (it costs as much as Kitchen Finks and provides less power for the first shot).
Spare Hawks may not be a bad idea, though, but our slots are already getting very crowded with an equipment toolbox, Vedalken Shackles, Finks, Elspeth 1.0...I suspect you'd have to ditch three of the above to fit in Lingering Souls. (This deck is extremely mana-hungry--it wants to develop the board and hold up countermagic/removal mana every turn, so you need all 26 lands.)
Souls would raise the Jund match-up, though, from my experience with testing W/x Tokens variants (BW and not BW) against that deck.
Against combo, what I like the most about Squadron Hawk is that it costs 2 mana per Hawk. This makes it much easier to hold countermagic or removal mana up than Lingering Souls's initial cost does (it costs as much as Kitchen Finks and provides less power for the first shot).
Spare Hawks may not be a bad idea, though, but our slots are already getting very crowded with an equipment toolbox, Vedalken Shackles, Finks, Elspeth 1.0...I suspect you'd have to ditch three of the above to fit in Lingering Souls. (This deck is extremely mana-hungry--it wants to develop the board and hold up countermagic/removal mana every turn, so you need all 26 lands.)
The Steelshaper toolbox is starting to wear out its novelty, I think. Just seems that that slot could be put to better use...
I have been fluctuating between 1-3 Shackles in the MD, but I think it is just too damn unreliable sometimes. I think this slot could be played with as well...
I cut Elspeth and Finks weeks ago...I just got tired of tapping out on t3 and 4 for these, especially against opposing remands...
I like the Lingering Souls idea because it provides 2 bodies. The thing I don't like is the Sorcery speed, which is why I cut the Elspeth and Finks. I almost want to try Midnight Haunting just because it is an instant and can be flashed back with Tiago.
Why isn't thirst for knowledge played in this deck? I've been working on this deck, and just discovered this thread and am surprised that it hasn't even popped up in discussion. I prefer it over think twice in any case. And I run it in a sun titan build with hopes to recure discard. And at instant speed it's got a leg over compulsive research
i won alot of games with this deck last night, didnt test, didnt make a sb, didnt care, just threw what i had in a pile together, sleeved, swept tournament, continued sweeping afterwards, never lost a game in many matches. i think this should be a terrible deck and my luck was just really good, does anyone agree or have any criticism?
i won alot of games with this deck last night, didnt test, didnt make a sb, didnt care, just threw what i had in a pile together, sleeved, swept tournament, continued sweeping afterwards, never lost a game in many matches. i think this should be a terrible deck and my luck was just really good, does anyone agree or have any criticism?
I can hardly believe you won with this pile. So many cards that just appear bad for this format.
Oh geez, you're right. I am so good at this game.
Thanks for pointing that out.
Squadron Hawks + Mistveil Plains is even more insane. To add to the insanity, Mistveil Plains counts as a Plains and therefore can be fetched for
I saw this tech used to great effect in a Martyr Proc deck the other day.
Agreed, you really should be running both.
Personally I like the Steelshaper's Gift. I'm expecting it as a random equipment, but with the versatility to be my 'second' mortarpod or sword.
3 Celestial Colonnade
4 Plains
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Arid Mesa
5 Island
2 Seachrome Coast
2 Mutavault
3 Glacial Fortress
1 Tectonic Edge
4 Mana Leak
4 Path to Exile
4 Spell Snare
1 Dismember
3 Wrath of God
3 Wall of Omens
2 Vendilion Clique
3 Baneslayer Angel
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Keiga, the Tide Star
Here is my updated build. Any advice is welcome.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=8476353#post8476353
Moorland Haunt
Squadron Hawk
cut keiga and wall of omens.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=8476353#post8476353
Thanks HotP studios!
Modern:
UWThe End ForetoldUW
I raise this because a number of MODO lists jam a random Steam Vent to +1 Sunburst for Engineered Explosives. It's as easy to replace the Steam Vent with Watery Grave (or 2 Watery Grave, -1 Island), replace Arid Mesa with Marsh Flats, and also possibly jam 1 Swamp (adding value to Marsh Flats overall). Spells in most lists seem to be a mish-mosh, so there's no real card in particular I'd advocate for removing since there's no real consistency to spells and their quantities but for 4 Path to Exile; I, personally, am not playing Kitchen Finks main at the moment to try this out.
I'd recommend Lingering Souls for the deck because they function as essentially Squadron Hawks 6-20(/24 via Moorland Haunt), but are more-or-less immune to countermagic (and dodge the dreaded 2 cmc against Spell Snare).
Adding a Black splash also opens Pandora's box on content, such as discard, additional targeted removal, Dark Confidant, and Esper Charm, though adding enough Black to +1 Explosives, flashback Lingering Souls, and still have the option of effectively playing Vedalken Shackles makes that something I would personally advise against being tempted by (and this is as someone who loves Esper Charm and Confidant).
Anyway, +$0.02; feel free to tell me how awful I am at Magic and what a dumb nerd I am.
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It's entirely possible...the worst part of it is probably getting the mana right:
E.g. a typical base for The Shackles version:
3 Scalding Tarn
4 Seachrome Coast
3 Hallowed Fountain
3 Mutavault
2 Celestial Colonnade
5 Island
2 Plains
2 Moorland Haunt
1 Steam Vents
Could probably become:
2 Scalding Tarn
4 Seachrome Coast
3 Hallowed Fountain
3 Mutavault
2 Creeping Tar Pit
5 Island
1 Plains
1 Swamp
2 Moorland Haunt
1 Watery Grave
I'm thinking there's probably a better combination though (this one works for starter's) as there's some real weakness here to Ghost Quarter on the splash colours. Fortunately Blood Moon shouldn't be much worse as you have the basics still and Disenchant
Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
Souls supplements that, where you have turn 2, turn 3, turn 4: oh, you had spell snare? that's okay; 2 fliers, followed by 2 more w/ counter backup. Souls is also a miserable counter target, whereas Hawk is an awesome one. Neither sits very well if your opponent has no answer (counter or otherwise) for them. Removing Hawk essentially makes Moorland Haunt, a card that is completely insane, worthless. I would say the two are good compliments to each other. Having a virtual 24 Hawks in only 9(-6, if you count the first hawk as a single card that finds 3 more) cards is pretty spicy both in the amount of pressure/cards and when opposing aggressive decks that may just run you over.
Re: the mana base, I wouldn't play Creeping Tar Pit, as it requires you to have additional Black in order to do anything, and having 4 toughness on your manland is, AFAIK, is a major selling point for Colonnade.
my sample mana base is:
1 Plains
1 Swamp
2 Celestial Colonnade
1 Marsh Flats
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Moorland Haunt
3 Mutavault
4 Seachrome Coast
1 Tectonic Edge
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Watery Grave
Pendelhaven, with the additional 1/1s, could substitute Tectonic Edge, I just like the Edge as an emergency miser's release valve.
The point of having only two "actual" black sources is that generally if you don't draw black, you're not mana screwed, while if you draw Swamp without Lingering Souls, you're effectively drawing a blank, colorless land with no abilities but to put an additional charge counter on Engineered Explosives, which you may not even have in hand in the first place (assuming game 1, not sided it, etc). You also get additional milage out of Marsh Flats and maximize your Misty Rainforest. I only include 1 Marsh Flats still because getting Islands for Shackles while still not auto-losing to Blood Moon is likely more important than occasionally not being able to search out Basic Swamp (which Flats gets basic and non basics of each non-island anyway).
I've thrown together a mock list on the MTG app and have been sample handing it. I've been seldom boned on mana, but for the traditional problem of having triple-blue spells and no triple-blue mana to cast them with. 6 ersatz black sources seems to work for me in super-initial testing.
Buy from me on TCGPlayer::Twitter::Flickr
@ Kijin- Lingering Souls is not a bad idea- I would not replace Squadron Hawk in this deck though. I think you are maybe on the right track with Esper Charm, but Bob might be a stretch (I could be wrong though)...
I have already cut the Steam Vents (they were for SB'd Gut Shots aside from the +1 EE) for Watery Grave as I have taken a liking for Dismember over Gut Shot...
I am working on the Black splash...kind of like the Caw Blade in standard (not trying a 100% port, I get the formats are different) I want to have Tar Pit and discard.
Our worst matchup is a resolved planeswalker and Tron (big mana decks). Not much we can do about that I think.
Lingering Souls has a CMC of 3 always. Flashback is an alternate casting cost that does not alter the original, so you can not spell snare Lingering Souls....ever.
Spare Hawks may not be a bad idea, though, but our slots are already getting very crowded with an equipment toolbox, Vedalken Shackles, Finks, Elspeth 1.0...I suspect you'd have to ditch three of the above to fit in Lingering Souls. (This deck is extremely mana-hungry--it wants to develop the board and hold up countermagic/removal mana every turn, so you need all 26 lands.)
Souls would raise the Jund match-up, though, from my experience with testing W/x Tokens variants (BW and not BW) against that deck.
The Steelshaper toolbox is starting to wear out its novelty, I think. Just seems that that slot could be put to better use...
I have been fluctuating between 1-3 Shackles in the MD, but I think it is just too damn unreliable sometimes. I think this slot could be played with as well...
I cut Elspeth and Finks weeks ago...I just got tired of tapping out on t3 and 4 for these, especially against opposing remands...
I like the Lingering Souls idea because it provides 2 bodies. The thing I don't like is the Sorcery speed, which is why I cut the Elspeth and Finks. I almost want to try Midnight Haunting just because it is an instant and can be flashed back with Tiago.
TRADES
3 gitaxian probe
2 serum vision
4 mana leak
4 rune snag
4 day of judgement (textless)
1 wrath of god (textless)
1 path to exile (promo)
1 ratchet bomb
1 oblivion ring (foil)
1 snapcaster mage
1 blade splicer (foil)
1 wurmcoil engine (promo)
1 sun titan (signed promo)
1 jace beleren (foil)
1 jace, memory adept
1 elspeth, knight-errant
1 elspeth tirel (jap)
1 gideon jura
1 venser, the sojourner (foil)
1 karn liberated (signed)
4 glacial fortress
1 seachrome coast (jap)
1 hallowed fountain
1 mystic gate
7 plains (unh)
6 island (unh)
i won alot of games with this deck last night, didnt test, didnt make a sb, didnt care, just threw what i had in a pile together, sleeved, swept tournament, continued sweeping afterwards, never lost a game in many matches. i think this should be a terrible deck and my luck was just really good, does anyone agree or have any criticism?
I can hardly believe you won with this pile. So many cards that just appear bad for this format.
Seem like a decent counterspell option.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=8476353#post8476353