Land:
4 scalding tarn
4 misty rainforest
3 steam vents
2 breeding pool
1 stomping ground
6 island
1 forest
Sideboard:
3 blood moon
3 ancient grudge
2 surgical extraction
2 huntmaster
2 combust
1 bonfire
1 spellskite
1 back to nature
Let me know what you guys think.
This deck is something I
This is EXACTLY the version I'm playing, card by card, even the lone Batterskull as a trump card against long games! Please let me know how you do at the PTQ, I'll be very interested
out of curiosity has anyone experimented with swords?
Also I was thinking about if the deck could be improved with removing delver? For a tempo deck it is important to get an early threat out so you can establish a clock, but maindecking only 14 creatures makes that difficult sometimes and I lost a couple games at the last PTQ just because I had no opening delver or goyf to apply early pressure. Delver already is relatively inconsistent thanks to lack of ponder/preordain, plus his removal allows the deck to run a larger creature base as well. Don't get me wrong I love delver and I want it to work but I am wondering if anyone removed him and has had success doing so.
That's the deck Shouta Yasooka took to the Player's Championship this year (and took to second place, I believe?).
Zac Hill wrote an article for SCG about a UBrg Delver deck that plays out a lot like RUG, but with Deathrite Shamans. It made it to the finals of a PTQ in Brooklyn this weekend and it really feels like the natural evolution of this deck.
Do you have a link to that article? I'd like to read about it.
Played a R/B burn deck out the gate, UWr control, Living End, and some G/B beatdown deck in the final round.
I prefer Pike over controlling cards like Shackles, but I just prefer the aggressive edge. Not much to report, other than that I don't like Surgical Extraction at all. I often sided out at least one Pike, but it came in handy against UW allowing my Snapcasters to intimidate the colonnades.
Also, Thought Scour is quite good. If I could I'd cut one Pike and One Izzet Charm for a Forked Bolt, and another Remand.
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Modern
Dredge, Evo-Chord, U/G Faeries, Living End, Something New
So I am not sure if I am terrible at this game or what... but here is the list that I came up with today. Mind you this was a brainstorm while I was at work. I don't have a sideboard yet.
This set up gives us 26 ways to flip delver, 15 ways to filter/draw cards, 13 ways to counter spells, 13 ways to "remove" creatures, and 7 ways to deal damage straight to someone's face.
Also, with Snapcaster you can do this multiple times. I know a lot of people run Runechanter's Pike and/or Vedalken Shackles, but I feel that there is still a lot of artifact hate and I would probably have a shackles or threads type effect in the sideboard.
There are 2 points that I would like to address:
1. The thought crossed my mind that I may need 2 more creatures, but I don't know what to add. I was thinking maybe Eternal Witness or Kitchen Finks.
2. I wanted to have some type of mana denial plan (eg. Tectonic Edge/Ghost Quarter), but I wasn't sure if taking it down to 3 Islands would be way too low of a count. I could always cut a spell (down to 25) and run 21 lands (4 islands and 2 land destruction lands).
Any criticism or advise is more than welcome.
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Currently Playing
Legacy: WUBRG Manaless Dredge GRBUW
I think it's still a viable deck actually. People do seem to prefer BUG and UWR these days though.
It's something I'm in the process of building, but I'm at the point where I can't really turn back if I go forward. Seeing as the previous post before mine was 4/27 and I haven't seen a single daily with this deck in it in the past month or two (it used to flood the dailies half a year ago) I can't help but think that there's something wrong with it.
It's indeed puzzling as to why no Goyf+Snappy+Bolt deck can find it's spot in the metagame. Delver being more scarce in general cant help. I guess people only want to play their goodstuff decks if they can start with deathrite shaman on turn one.
Reid Duke's delverless RUG build from GP San DIego
Creatures (12)
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Tarmogoyf
3 Vendilion Clique
Lands (23)
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Phantasmal Image
1 Thragtusk
3 Blood Moon
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Combust
1 Negate
Plays the control roll a lot better, I'm assuming beating in with delvers has just been an unreliable winplan and forces deck construction away from creatures and artifacts.
It's indeed puzzling as to why no Goyf+Snappy+Bolt deck can find it's spot in the metagame. Delver being more scarce in general cant help. I guess people only want to play their goodstuff decks if they can start with deathrite shaman on turn one.
Reid Duke's delverless RUG build from GP San DIego
Creatures (12)
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Tarmogoyf
3 Vendilion Clique
Lands (23)
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Phantasmal Image
1 Thragtusk
3 Blood Moon
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Combust
1 Negate
Plays the control roll a lot better, I'm assuming beating in with delvers has just been an unreliable winplan and forces deck construction away from creatures and artifacts.
Well, now that I think about it, WUR has a lot of benefits over RUG (correct me on any of these).
1. WUR doesn't get completely rolled by grave hate. RiP locks down both Snap and Goyf in RUG.
2. WUR has a crazy hexproof monster that beats harder than Goyf. RUG has to deal with Goyf wars and more removal like Dismember, Path and occasionally even Bolt that kills Goyf.
3. WUR has unconditional instant removal with Path. It deals with whatever you can't handle at the moment, whether it be Baneslayer or Goyf.
4. WUR has manlands for alternate wincons. Once the board's clear that Colonnade just keeps slamming down the damage.
5. WUR has uncounterable sweepers if needed. It's a toss up between Pyroclasm and Supreme Verdict, but sometimes you just need the Verdict and WUR has both.
6. Baneslayer is an excellent lategame threat. Thundermaw doesn't compare unless you're slamming in that last 5 damage.
That being said, I think RUG has a good game against WUR (again, correct me if I'm wrong).
1. Huntmaster is pretty good vs. draw go. Still, WUR has a lot of burn to deal with him.
2. Pyroclasm blows out Geist and leaves Goyf intact.
3. Cryptic Command is excellent late game; better than Remand by far.
Still, I feel like WUR has a lot more going for it against the rest of the field, especially at the FNM level where there isn't a whole lot of Jund and a lot more rogue builds.
I honestly don't know what to build. If I go WUR, I won't be picking up the Geists until rotation and will likely be just playing WUR Control until then. If I go RUG, getting the 4 Goyfs will shred the last of my budget and if it doesn't work out I will probably have to end up trading a large portion of my deck away.
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This is EXACTLY the version I'm playing, card by card, even the lone Batterskull as a trump card against long games! Please let me know how you do at the PTQ, I'll be very interested
Also I was thinking about if the deck could be improved with removing delver? For a tempo deck it is important to get an early threat out so you can establish a clock, but maindecking only 14 creatures makes that difficult sometimes and I lost a couple games at the last PTQ just because I had no opening delver or goyf to apply early pressure. Delver already is relatively inconsistent thanks to lack of ponder/preordain, plus his removal allows the deck to run a larger creature base as well. Don't get me wrong I love delver and I want it to work but I am wondering if anyone removed him and has had success doing so.
Do you have a link to that article? I'd like to read about it.
Thanks a lot for the links!
Didn't notice I need to be a premium user
However, thanks for the links.
2 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Misty Rainforest
6 Island
1 Mountain
1 Forest
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Vendilion Clique
4 Serum Visions
2 Sleight of Hand
1 Burst Lightning
2 Spell Snare
4 Mana Leak
2 Izzet Charm
1 Simic Charm
2 Vedalken Shackles
3 Cryptic Command
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Spell Snare
1 Pithing Needle
1 Back to Nature
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Simic Charm
2 Dismember
1 Jace Beleren
2 Firespout
1 Krosan Grip
2 Obstinate Baloth
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
2 Breeding Pool
1 Stomping Ground
2 Hinterland Harbor
2 Sulfur Falls
3 Island
1 Forest
1 Mountain
Creature
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Runechanter's Pike
Sorcery
4 Serum Visions
Instant
1 Spell Pierce
1 Spell Snare
2 Thought Scour
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Remand
2 Mana Leak
1 Izzet Charm
2 Simic Charm
2 Electrolyze
2 Cryptic Command
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Spell Pierce
1 Spell Snare
1 Steel Sabotage
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Phantasmal Image
2 Spreading Seas
1 Combust
2 Izzet Staticaster
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
Played a R/B burn deck out the gate, UWr control, Living End, and some G/B beatdown deck in the final round.
I prefer Pike over controlling cards like Shackles, but I just prefer the aggressive edge. Not much to report, other than that I don't like Surgical Extraction at all. I often sided out at least one Pike, but it came in handy against UW allowing my Snapcasters to intimidate the colonnades.
Also, Thought Scour is quite good. If I could I'd cut one Pike and One Izzet Charm for a Forked Bolt, and another Remand.
Modern
Dredge, Evo-Chord, U/G Faeries, Living End, Something New
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Vendilion Clique
Business Spells:
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Serum Visions
2 Spell Snare
2 Spell Pierce
2 Izzet Charm
4 Remand
1 Mana Leak
3 Electrolyze
2 Cryptic Command
2 Simic Charm
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
5 Island
1 Forest
1 Mountain
2 Breeding Pool
2 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground
This set up gives us 26 ways to flip delver, 15 ways to filter/draw cards, 13 ways to counter spells, 13 ways to "remove" creatures, and 7 ways to deal damage straight to someone's face.
Also, with Snapcaster you can do this multiple times. I know a lot of people run Runechanter's Pike and/or Vedalken Shackles, but I feel that there is still a lot of artifact hate and I would probably have a shackles or threads type effect in the sideboard.
There are 2 points that I would like to address:
1. The thought crossed my mind that I may need 2 more creatures, but I don't know what to add. I was thinking maybe Eternal Witness or Kitchen Finks.
2. I wanted to have some type of mana denial plan (eg. Tectonic Edge/Ghost Quarter), but I wasn't sure if taking it down to 3 Islands would be way too low of a count. I could always cut a spell (down to 25) and run 21 lands (4 islands and 2 land destruction lands).
Any criticism or advise is more than welcome.
Legacy:
WUBRG Manaless Dredge GRBUW
Modern:
BRG Jund GRB
EDH/Commander:
WUG Rafiq of the Many GUW
I think it's still a viable deck actually. People do seem to prefer BUG and UWR these days though.
Modern Junk Primer
Legacy ANT Primer
L1 Judge
It's something I'm in the process of building, but I'm at the point where I can't really turn back if I go forward. Seeing as the previous post before mine was 4/27 and I haven't seen a single daily with this deck in it in the past month or two (it used to flood the dailies half a year ago) I can't help but think that there's something wrong with it.
Reid Duke's delverless RUG build from GP San DIego
Creatures (12)
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Tarmogoyf
3 Vendilion Clique
Lands (23)
1 Forest
9 Island
1 Mountain
1 Breeding Pool
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground
Spells (25)
1 Batterskull
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Vedalken Shackles
3 Cryptic Command
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Mana Leak
3 Spell Snare
2 Thirst For Knowledge
2 Pyroclasm
3 Serum Visions
Sideboard
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Phantasmal Image
1 Thragtusk
3 Blood Moon
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Combust
1 Negate
Plays the control roll a lot better, I'm assuming beating in with delvers has just been an unreliable winplan and forces deck construction away from creatures and artifacts.
Well, now that I think about it, WUR has a lot of benefits over RUG (correct me on any of these).
1. WUR doesn't get completely rolled by grave hate. RiP locks down both Snap and Goyf in RUG.
2. WUR has a crazy hexproof monster that beats harder than Goyf. RUG has to deal with Goyf wars and more removal like Dismember, Path and occasionally even Bolt that kills Goyf.
3. WUR has unconditional instant removal with Path. It deals with whatever you can't handle at the moment, whether it be Baneslayer or Goyf.
4. WUR has manlands for alternate wincons. Once the board's clear that Colonnade just keeps slamming down the damage.
5. WUR has uncounterable sweepers if needed. It's a toss up between Pyroclasm and Supreme Verdict, but sometimes you just need the Verdict and WUR has both.
6. Baneslayer is an excellent lategame threat. Thundermaw doesn't compare unless you're slamming in that last 5 damage.
That being said, I think RUG has a good game against WUR (again, correct me if I'm wrong).
1. Huntmaster is pretty good vs. draw go. Still, WUR has a lot of burn to deal with him.
2. Pyroclasm blows out Geist and leaves Goyf intact.
3. Cryptic Command is excellent late game; better than Remand by far.
Still, I feel like WUR has a lot more going for it against the rest of the field, especially at the FNM level where there isn't a whole lot of Jund and a lot more rogue builds.
I honestly don't know what to build. If I go WUR, I won't be picking up the Geists until rotation and will likely be just playing WUR Control until then. If I go RUG, getting the 4 Goyfs will shred the last of my budget and if it doesn't work out I will probably have to end up trading a large portion of my deck away.