Hi everyone!! First of all, i dont understand why this deck isnt in "Developing Competivive": i think the deck has shown up in some Premier and Daily Events, and is going to be an established Tier 1.5.
I'm surprised I hadn't had any requests to move it.
The deck has 1 or 2 Blue Envelopes now and is clearly in contention to be a T1 deck.
Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
For the record, I was at that PTQ, and Yong won, beating Affinity in the finals, but he gave her the win because he couldn't go to Barcelona.
This deck is really solid, but I'm wondering about the twin matchup. This deck doesn't seem to have many answers preboard to a turn three flashed in exarch.
I'm not trying to be THAT guy, but what does this deck receive from green? Is a third color (and lots of shockland damage) worth Goyfs in the maindeck and Ancient Grudge flashback in the SB?
So I just played the mirror, and this guy was running Desperate Ravings. He claimed it broke the mirror. I don't see it, even if it did help him draw into the Bolt that killed me. It just seems like a janky card that will screw you over more times than it will help you.
How is the matchup against twin? it seems to me very weak. isn't it?
compared to?
UB delver is probably better against twin, but weaker to affinity. IMO UB/x delver is probably better in general except against affinity.
As for RUG affinity it should be pretty close to 50/50 depending on how much burn you run. the more you run the worst it is for you against them.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
what do you guys think of faithless looting? maybe as a replacement for slight of hand?
and what about clinging mists against boros and/or affinity?
also on the deprive note: I just got done playing some intense rounds at my shop and deprive was the champ.
against boros i was at 1 and in hand i had some mana leaks, a deprive and a cryptic. needing to get some threat on board i ran out a goyf so i only had 2 mana left open. if i had 3 mana leaks in hand that topdeck bolt would have killed me cause he could have paid for it. deprive saved my life and i was able to beat him down no problem.
Clinging Mists is no good against Boros. 3-mana Fogs are bad, and Fateful Hour isn't stopping topdecked Bolts and Lightning Helixes. I'd say Hurkyl's Recall is the better Fog against Affinity, as they can't replay every artifact you bounced that turn (this is especially mean if you also bounce Darksteel Citadels, Springleaf Drums, Cranial Platings equipped to guys, and fat Arcbound Ravagers). I don't think Clinging Mists stops both decks enough to warrant a sideboard slot.
I like Deprive. As a mid- to late-game hard counter for a tempo deck, it almost can't be beat. I tend to use Mana Leaks first and Deprives afterwards.
what do you guys think of faithless looting? maybe as a replacement for slight of hand?
and what about clinging mists against boros and/or affinity?
also on the deprive note: I just got done playing some intense rounds at my shop and deprive was the champ.
against boros i was at 1 and in hand i had some mana leaks, a deprive and a cryptic. needing to get some threat on board i ran out a goyf so i only had 2 mana left open. if i had 3 mana leaks in hand that topdeck bolt would have killed me cause he could have paid for it. deprive saved my life and i was able to beat him down no problem.
I don't like either idea. looting won't help you set up delver, and it is card disadvantage. It should only be used in decks that want/need to dig for combo pieces.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
What about Thought Scour as the secondary cantrip? While it does not provide any card selection, it is very synergistic with Goyf, Lavamancer, and Snapcaster.
What about Thought Scour as the secondary cantrip? While it does not provide any card selection, it is very synergistic with Goyf, Lavamancer, and Snapcaster.
What about Thought Scour as the secondary cantrip? While it does not provide any card selection, it is very synergistic with Goyf, Lavamancer, and Snapcaster.
at first I was going to say that was the wost idea I have ever heard, but it actually makes quite a bit of sense. The only issue with it is that it isn't synergistic with delver. Do you have a card that you would slam dunk replace it with? Often times when building a deck your like this card is sweet, that card is cool, this should work, blah,blah,blah. Then you got 120 cards in your deck lol.
tl:dr is it better than another card in your deck? if yes replace. If not continue on.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
i was thinking about goblin ruinblasters in the side, but im not sure if this deck will be big enough to warrant sb slots. maybe just some blood moons and call it good?
also, how many slots is enough for one deck? it seems i have alot of slot devoted to one or two decks and i just dont see how i improve my matchup against decks like tron or marty proc.
i was thinking about goblin ruinblasters in the side, but im not sure if this deck will be big enough to warrant sb slots. maybe just some blood moons and call it good?
also, how many slots is enough for one deck? it seems i have alot of slot devoted to one or two decks and i just dont see how i improve my matchup against decks like tron or marty proc.
Sulfur Elemental is good against both Martyr-Proc and Caw-Blade, as is Torpor Orb, with the upside of it being good against other stuff too.
i was thinking about goblin ruinblasters in the side, but im not sure if this deck will be big enough to warrant sb slots. maybe just some blood moons and call it good?
also, how many slots is enough for one deck? it seems i have alot of slot devoted to one or two decks and i just dont see how i improve my matchup against decks like tron or marty proc.
Blood moon and ruinblaster just make you slow. Even if you happen to land a blood moon tron has plenty of outs. Also they does not stop them for killing your dudes, countering your spells, and dropping wurmcoil or baneslayer.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
Whenever you're confidant you can deal some damage to him. The majority of stuff in Martyr-Proc gets dead from Sulfur (assuming they don't have a pumped Serra out). As for Caw-Blade, usually after they've played all their birds.
Hey guys this is the list I'm messing around with, and some of my opinions on things. I'm probably not saying anything new, but I'd like to lay out some of my thoughts and if I'm mistaken, get corrected.
- Decided to take out the single Forest and Mountain. I feel like Blood Moon is pretty easy to play around, and decks that board it in against you aren't killing you fast enough trying to play it anyways.
- I like the single main-decked Spell Pierce, it can be really unexpected for them when you signal a bolt with just Steam Vents open, and pierce a Wrath instead. Just nice to have 1.
- Went down to 2 Cliques instead of 3, he's really meh against aggro. So the third goes to the sideboard.
- Grim Lavamancer IMO plays like Punishing fire, but costs less mana per turn to activate. All these weenie decks that are popping up because they thought it was safe after bannings to come out better think again. He also helps in GoyfWars and can really speed up your clock.
- Flame Slash: don't play without this card main-decked. He kills a lot of semi-fatties when Bolt doesn't do the job. Along with Sleight, it allows you to bin a Sorcery more consistently for Goyf.
- Burst Lightning is basically a Shock, but when you draw one late game, it's a Galvanic Blast.
- Deprive and Cryptic are necessary hard counters, and Cryptic's versatility can steal you games. The tempo loss on Deprive is not a huge deal, but I run just 2.
- Snapcaster used to be a 4 of, until I got tired of mulliganing too many hands with two of him. Or drawing him with no business in the graveyard.
I've also been experimenting with the board. Still not sure about a lot of things, but here goes.
- Maxed Ancient Grudge. Affinity is often too fast for me to handle. Has a few applications against other decks that run Shackles for example.
- Spell Pierce comes in when I'm on the draw.
- Dismember used to be Combust. But Combust has been too narrow for me (only comes in against Twin), and costs too much mana. Dismember's mana cost is so cheap I'm loving it. It kills Exarch and Pestermite just as easily, and also hits Knight of the Reliquary quite frequently. It's counterable, but the low mana cost helps me deal with it.
- Vendilion Clique comes in versus combo and control.
- I haven't played with the Sulfur Elemental yet (just added it) but it seems great. It makes things really problematic for Martyr, and laughs at tokens and Moorland Haunt. These are cards I've been seeing a lot lately. Also, it prevents opponents from getting more than 1 chump out of Finks, and also shrinks them for you when they try to race you with a 3 power creature of their own.
- The decks that I want to play Cage against are control decks, and Melira. Against control they often have a Gifts/Unburial/Fatty win condition and Cage hoses that. Also it hoses opposing Snapcasters and I board out Snapcasters anyways, because he's too mana intensive and against permission it just sucks.
I'm surprised I hadn't had any requests to move it.
The deck has 1 or 2 Blue Envelopes now and is clearly in contention to be a T1 deck.
Moved to Developing Competitive.
Yong Li Liang
2 Breeding Pool
1 Forest
5 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Mountain
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground
Creatures (17)
4 Delver of Secrets
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Vendilion Clique
1 Burst Lightning
2 Cryptic Command
2 Deprive
1 Dismember
2 Flame Slash
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Mana Leak
4 Serum Visions
2 Sleight of Hand
4 Ancient Grudge
1 Dismember
1 Grim Lavamancer
4 Spell Pierce
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
2 Torpor Orb
2 Vedalken Shackles
This deck is really solid, but I'm wondering about the twin matchup. This deck doesn't seem to have many answers preboard to a turn three flashed in exarch.
Standard
:symu::symwr:Blasphemous Flash:symwr::symu:
Legacy
RUG Tempo (Foiled out :dance:)
EDH (I refuse to call it commander :/)
Iname Death Aspect
Legacy: Strawberry Shortcake, Aggro Loam, DnT+b
Modern: Devoted Karn
Vintage: Survival
Also, affinity is big, so being able to pack hate is important.
Ux Whirza
Rb Goblins
Legacy
U Urza Stompy
Duel Commander
Sai, Master Thopterist
compared to?
UB delver is probably better against twin, but weaker to affinity. IMO UB/x delver is probably better in general except against affinity.
As for RUG affinity it should be pretty close to 50/50 depending on how much burn you run. the more you run the worst it is for you against them.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
and what about clinging mists against boros and/or affinity?
also on the deprive note: I just got done playing some intense rounds at my shop and deprive was the champ.
against boros i was at 1 and in hand i had some mana leaks, a deprive and a cryptic. needing to get some threat on board i ran out a goyf so i only had 2 mana left open. if i had 3 mana leaks in hand that topdeck bolt would have killed me cause he could have paid for it. deprive saved my life and i was able to beat him down no problem.
I like Deprive. As a mid- to late-game hard counter for a tempo deck, it almost can't be beat. I tend to use Mana Leaks first and Deprives afterwards.
I don't like either idea. looting won't help you set up delver, and it is card disadvantage. It should only be used in decks that want/need to dig for combo pieces.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
I plan on trying it out, I can tell you that.
at first I was going to say that was the wost idea I have ever heard, but it actually makes quite a bit of sense. The only issue with it is that it isn't synergistic with delver. Do you have a card that you would slam dunk replace it with? Often times when building a deck your like this card is sweet, that card is cool, this should work, blah,blah,blah. Then you got 120 cards in your deck lol.
tl:dr is it better than another card in your deck? if yes replace. If not continue on.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
also, how many slots is enough for one deck? it seems i have alot of slot devoted to one or two decks and i just dont see how i improve my matchup against decks like tron or marty proc.
Sulfur Elemental is good against both Martyr-Proc and Caw-Blade, as is Torpor Orb, with the upside of it being good against other stuff too.
you just gotta win fast.
Blood moon and ruinblaster just make you slow. Even if you happen to land a blood moon tron has plenty of outs. Also they does not stop them for killing your dudes, countering your spells, and dropping wurmcoil or baneslayer.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
Whenever you're confidant you can deal some damage to him. The majority of stuff in Martyr-Proc gets dead from Sulfur (assuming they don't have a pumped Serra out). As for Caw-Blade, usually after they've played all their birds.
- Decided to take out the single Forest and Mountain. I feel like Blood Moon is pretty easy to play around, and decks that board it in against you aren't killing you fast enough trying to play it anyways.
- I like the single main-decked Spell Pierce, it can be really unexpected for them when you signal a bolt with just Steam Vents open, and pierce a Wrath instead. Just nice to have 1.
- Went down to 2 Cliques instead of 3, he's really meh against aggro. So the third goes to the sideboard.
- Grim Lavamancer IMO plays like Punishing fire, but costs less mana per turn to activate. All these weenie decks that are popping up because they thought it was safe after bannings to come out better think again. He also helps in GoyfWars and can really speed up your clock.
- Flame Slash: don't play without this card main-decked. He kills a lot of semi-fatties when Bolt doesn't do the job. Along with Sleight, it allows you to bin a Sorcery more consistently for Goyf.
- Burst Lightning is basically a Shock, but when you draw one late game, it's a Galvanic Blast.
- Deprive and Cryptic are necessary hard counters, and Cryptic's versatility can steal you games. The tempo loss on Deprive is not a huge deal, but I run just 2.
- Snapcaster used to be a 4 of, until I got tired of mulliganing too many hands with two of him. Or drawing him with no business in the graveyard.
I've also been experimenting with the board. Still not sure about a lot of things, but here goes.
- Maxed Ancient Grudge. Affinity is often too fast for me to handle. Has a few applications against other decks that run Shackles for example.
- Spell Pierce comes in when I'm on the draw.
- Dismember used to be Combust. But Combust has been too narrow for me (only comes in against Twin), and costs too much mana. Dismember's mana cost is so cheap I'm loving it. It kills Exarch and Pestermite just as easily, and also hits Knight of the Reliquary quite frequently. It's counterable, but the low mana cost helps me deal with it.
- Vendilion Clique comes in versus combo and control.
- I haven't played with the Sulfur Elemental yet (just added it) but it seems great. It makes things really problematic for Martyr, and laughs at tokens and Moorland Haunt. These are cards I've been seeing a lot lately. Also, it prevents opponents from getting more than 1 chump out of Finks, and also shrinks them for you when they try to race you with a 3 power creature of their own.
- The decks that I want to play Cage against are control decks, and Melira. Against control they often have a Gifts/Unburial/Fatty win condition and Cage hoses that. Also it hoses opposing Snapcasters and I board out Snapcasters anyways, because he's too mana intensive and against permission it just sucks.
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
2 Breeding Pool
1 Hinterland Harbor
2 Sulfur Falls
6 Island
Creatures
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Grim Lavamancer
2 Vendilion Clique
4 Mana Leak
2 Deprive
2 Cryptic Command
1 Spell Pierce
Removal
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Burst Lightning
2 Flame Slash
Cantrips
4 Serum Visions
3 Sleight of Hand
4 Ancient Grudge
2 Spell Pierce
2 Dismember
1 Vendilion Clique
2 Negate
2 Sulfur Elemental
2 Grafdigger's Cage