Hello guys! I'm going to a tournament full of faeries/wb tokens/robots/living end/ few few few storm/twin decks...i own a splinter twin deck but it's not my deck...now i've tried G/R tron and it fit perfectly my playstyle...so here's the list i'm currently running
So far i have good MU against all the meta...yes i do suffer with combo decks, i'm not a pro but i'll say that those match are not unwinnable...i tend to ignore the storm player running forward to multiple wurmcoils/emrakul popping some oblivion stones in the process targeting their pyromancer ascension.It's a race so let's race
Splinter twin is another tough MU and my best friend is a well timed oblivion stone when the player taps out four mana and goes for the combo...but the oblivion stone on the field usually scares them enough(beside artifact hate g2...i don't know what to do if they see it) to let me bring emrakul and gg.
Karn is always useful.
i really appreciate some hints from any of you! thanks guys!
(sorry for my english if it's not correct...i'm italian!)
It's not incredibly optimal, but it has the same ol' Tron power, backed by the typical sideboard hate and some goodies that I love using. Have been looking at Dawnglow Infusion but I feel it just isn't necessary, as much as I like the thought of gaining a ridiculous amount of life. I enjoyed things like Khalni Garden to help against sac effects or to wear a Batterskull, and also enjoyed Kessig Wolf Run, but Academy Ruins is just a powerhouse.
Overall, I'm a little concerned about Infect, and Stony Silence etc, but again haven't been able force myself to cut anything for Infect hate or Seal of Primordium etc. Maybe add some more Nature's Claim and just throw the Infect nutdraw?
GO GREEDY BOARD! (I've got a Timely Reinforcements in there along with Batterskull for RDW; my board probably still punts Infect.)
I'd actually push the Slaughter Games number to 4 if possible; it makes winning against UR Storm and Exarch Twin quite a bit more likely, as you need to resolve 2 Slaughter Games against those decks. (And yes, UR Storm has punted to double Slaughter Games twice and won through one Games many times in my testing. I hate how Empty the Warrens forces me to not board out all my Pyroclasms.)
I haven't tested against Stony Silence yet, but I've generally found two Naturalize effects to be enough against Blood Moon. Oblivion Stone is so much better than All Is Dust against Moon effects, as you can lay the Stone down on 3 lands and blow it up on 5. It actually can nuke Moon in a timely fashion.
Alrighty, cheers for the info Maybe it's time Sundering Titan takes a break and I push Slaughter Games to 4. I don't come across much Storm but am not interested in throwing that matchup.
Against Stony Silence users, I've found you want to use Maps asap (if they don't turn 2 Stony) because Sylvan Scying + Stirrings waltz you into Tron the following turns; and while your table fills with artifacts, once Karn/Claim can remove a Stony or two you just go off and draw a ton of cards. I've never come across anyone with 4 Stony in their board so dealing with one or two isn't actually too difficult... they (UW specifically) put a lot of effort into stopping Scrying, leaving you free to dig with Stirrings.
Edit: After skimming through the Infect primer, I'd forgotten all about the Grim Poppet tech. I'm not sure if that's even worthwhile though, as Infect generally has a bunch of Nature's Claim, Spellskite and Dismembers. It may catch them out in Game2, I guess? Game 3 would be a different story. Kinda seems better to just race them with an early Tron setup and a few sweepers. Have you tried it before, Lectrys?
Oblivion Stone is so much better than All Is Dust against Moon effects, as you can lay the Stone down on 3 lands and blow it up on 5. It actually can nuke Moon in a timely fashion.
Thinking about putting Tron together on MODO. What are your thoughts on Oblivion Stone? Isn't All Is Dust just better?
Honestly, I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone arguing for it over O-Stone. Ostone kills everything, but apart from Karn you can gain value out of Wurmcoil and Chromatic Star anyways. It sits on the table to slow down aggro, and it forces Splinter Twin or other kiki jiki combo to deal with it. You also have Academy Ruins to cycle back into your Ostone or Wurmcoil, prophetic prism etc.
All is Dust may cost one less but it also doesn't touch Affinity/Robot decks, and you'll be seeing them around
How much Infect is in your meta? If there isn't any, I don't think I can justify Melira in the board.
I don't know how much infect could be there...i've been away from the modern scene since june so i know for sure that only those decks are there...last week i went to an "explore" mission with my BR Vamps and i saw only 1-2 Infect deck on 20+ buddies. Melira is there just to avoid nasty surprises.
I was looking at this deck since I have most pf the pieces already.
Any thoughts on adding Spine of Ish Shah + Phyrexia's Core? If you drop an Urzas land each turn, then turn 3 you destroy any permanent, then sac it to Core, gain a life, get Spine back, and do it every single turn. You could get them to 0 land pretty quickly if they miss a land drop
I'd be hesitant to add Spine to the deck because it'd have to take a slot of your finishers. Sure, you blow up a permanent (or two with a sac outlet) but if you don't have the outlet, it's a 7 mana Vindicate. With Karn, we can do the same think and his other abilities (attack the hand, restart the game) are backbreaking as well for your opponent.
It's not searchable with Eye of Ugin, and I doubt you'll be wanting to search for Phyrexia's Core with your land tutors once you have Tron online. At that point, it'd be much better to run Mindslaver / Academy Ruins.
Nah; seeing as we only run 19-20 land, you're actually using all your artifacts to colorfix and dig for your lands. You wont have enough artifacts to benefit from the Affinity cost reduction and the U commitment to any sizable number of the card means you're going to be hamstrung to cast your G cards. Also remember that potentially 16+ of your cards are replacing themselves, so draw isn't really a problem as you're already cruising through your deck
I'd be hesitant to add Spine to the deck because it'd have to take a slot of your finishers. Sure, you blow up a permanent (or two with a sac outlet) but if you don't have the outlet, it's a 7 mana Vindicate. With Karn, we can do the same think and his other abilities (attack the hand, restart the game) are backbreaking as well for your opponent.
It's not searchable with Eye of Ugin, and I doubt you'll be wanting to search for Phyrexia's Core with your land tutors once you have Tron online. At that point, it'd be much better to run Mindslaver / Academy Ruins.
You're going to be blowing up a permanant every turn though. With all our land fetching getting a core onto the table is simple. And I wouldn't replace Karn with them, I would add them in on top of Karn. 3 Karns's and 4 Spines is 7 repeatable permanant destruction tricks the deck can pull off, starting on turn 3. I think Tron could be a really punishing LD deck, just lkeep them manaless while we draw into a finisher. But not having tried it, I can't say whther it's good or not yet. I think it passes the "sleeve it up and try it a few times" test
To make room, you can go 3 Karn instead of 4, and cut some of your mana cantrips to 3 of's vs 4 of's
I think it would be fun to maybe go Trading Post with a list too, you get awesome drawpower with Ichor Wellspring, you can recur artifacts out of your graveyard easily, you can chump block infect dudes with goats, etc
I'm going to start messing with decklists, for modern FNM Tron is the only real deck I have 90% of the cards for. I'll brew some decklist variants and let you know how they do.
2) Any consideration for a card like Lingering Souls in the SB for the Infect MU? Seems the answer for us is to delay them as much as possible and that seems like it could be an answer.
So I've just been goldfishing, but man, does this deck draw a LOT of cards. Trading Post makes your Ichor Wellspring's net you 3 cards, it doubles your draw from Chromatic Star, and it can recur any of them if needed. Coupled with Spine of Ish Shah you are blowing up permanents and draw cards every turn. It's such a great engine I might up it to 4.
If you don't have Post out Phyrexia's Core gives you a handy sac outlet to help you draw cards, Ancient Stirrings finds what you need, and you still have the land searching suite to assemble Tron with. And once you got it you have all sorts of goodies to play with this deck usually gives you.
I goldfished it about 10 times, and every time by turn 4-5 it was just doing nutty stuff, and it's pretty resilient against bad hands cause of all the draw. I haven't bothered thinking about a board yet because I haven't played the deck live yet, I'll give it a whirl this Friday
2) Any consideration for a card like Lingering Souls in the SB for the Infect MU? Seems the answer for us is to delay them as much as possible and that seems like it could be an answer.
Answers:
1. Yes, being uncounterable really is that good. Getting BR is actually almost as easy as getting B in the normal RG build, and against at least half the decks you want to board Slaughter Games in, your opponent can easily counter Cranial Extraction (Scapeshift, Hive Mind, Exarch Twin). I was inspired to try Slaughter Games after trying Rakdos's Return. Hive Mind consistently Pact of Negationed it and paid for the Pact, and UR Storm comboed off through it once with Pyromancer's Ascension. (Yeah, Scapeshift would totally Cryptic Command that.) I found Slaughter Games had comparable speed to Rakdos's Return, was much harder to stop, and could consistently be cast through a Blood Moon to boot.
2. I wouldn't consider Lingering Souls for the Infect match-up because you'll likely have only enough mana fixing to cast it once (in a timely manner, at least). At that point, you may as well cast Midnight Haunting instead. Some people are fine with stuff like Electrickery, Spellskite, Melira, and Sudden Shock.
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4 Urza's Tower
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Mine
4 Groove of the Burnwillows
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Forest
Creatures
4 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Thorn
4 Karn Liberated
Other Spells
4 Chromatic Star
4 Chromatic Sphere
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Oblivion Stone
4 Pyroclasm
4 Relic of Progenitus
4 Sylvan Scrying
4 Expedition Map
2 Torpor Orb
3 Combust
1 Dismember
3 Nature's Claim
1 Vandalblast
2 Spellskite
3 Melira, Sylvok Outcast
So far i have good MU against all the meta...yes i do suffer with combo decks, i'm not a pro but i'll say that those match are not unwinnable...i tend to ignore the storm player running forward to multiple wurmcoils/emrakul popping some oblivion stones in the process targeting their pyromancer ascension.It's a race so let's race
Splinter twin is another tough MU and my best friend is a well timed oblivion stone when the player taps out four mana and goes for the combo...but the oblivion stone on the field usually scares them enough(beside artifact hate g2...i don't know what to do if they see it) to let me bring emrakul and gg.
Karn is always useful.
i really appreciate some hints from any of you! thanks guys!
(sorry for my english if it's not correct...i'm italian!)
4 Urza's Tower
4 Urza's Mine
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Forest
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Academy Ruins
1 Eye of Ugin
4 Karn Liberated
2 Wurmcoil Engine
3 Oblivion Stone
2 Pyroclasm
1 Firespout
4 Chromatic Star
3 Chromatic Sphere
3 Relic of Progenitus
3 Prophetic Prism
2 Explore
4 Sylvan Scrying
4 Exploration Map
2 Faith's Shield
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Combust
3 Slaughter Games
2 Batterskull
1 Mindslaver
1 Sundering Titan
It's not incredibly optimal, but it has the same ol' Tron power, backed by the typical sideboard hate and some goodies that I love using. Have been looking at Dawnglow Infusion but I feel it just isn't necessary, as much as I like the thought of gaining a ridiculous amount of life. I enjoyed things like Khalni Garden to help against sac effects or to wear a Batterskull, and also enjoyed Kessig Wolf Run, but Academy Ruins is just a powerhouse.
Overall, I'm a little concerned about Infect, and Stony Silence etc, but again haven't been able force myself to cut anything for Infect hate or Seal of Primordium etc. Maybe add some more Nature's Claim and just throw the Infect nutdraw?
I'd actually push the Slaughter Games number to 4 if possible; it makes winning against UR Storm and Exarch Twin quite a bit more likely, as you need to resolve 2 Slaughter Games against those decks. (And yes, UR Storm has punted to double Slaughter Games twice and won through one Games many times in my testing. I hate how Empty the Warrens forces me to not board out all my Pyroclasms.)
I haven't tested against Stony Silence yet, but I've generally found two Naturalize effects to be enough against Blood Moon. Oblivion Stone is so much better than All Is Dust against Moon effects, as you can lay the Stone down on 3 lands and blow it up on 5. It actually can nuke Moon in a timely fashion.
Against Stony Silence users, I've found you want to use Maps asap (if they don't turn 2 Stony) because Sylvan Scying + Stirrings waltz you into Tron the following turns; and while your table fills with artifacts, once Karn/Claim can remove a Stony or two you just go off and draw a ton of cards. I've never come across anyone with 4 Stony in their board so dealing with one or two isn't actually too difficult... they (UW specifically) put a lot of effort into stopping Scrying, leaving you free to dig with Stirrings.
Edit: After skimming through the Infect primer, I'd forgotten all about the Grim Poppet tech. I'm not sure if that's even worthwhile though, as Infect generally has a bunch of Nature's Claim, Spellskite and Dismembers. It may catch them out in Game2, I guess? Game 3 would be a different story. Kinda seems better to just race them with an early Tron setup and a few sweepers. Have you tried it before, Lectrys?
I think thats a main + for O. Stone.
540 Peasant cube- Gold EditionSomething SpicyHonestly, I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone arguing for it over O-Stone. Ostone kills everything, but apart from Karn you can gain value out of Wurmcoil and Chromatic Star anyways. It sits on the table to slow down aggro, and it forces Splinter Twin or other kiki jiki combo to deal with it. You also have Academy Ruins to cycle back into your Ostone or Wurmcoil, prophetic prism etc.
All is Dust may cost one less but it also doesn't touch Affinity/Robot decks, and you'll be seeing them around
I don't know how much infect could be there...i've been away from the modern scene since june so i know for sure that only those decks are there...last week i went to an "explore" mission with my BR Vamps and i saw only 1-2 Infect deck on 20+ buddies. Melira is there just to avoid nasty surprises.
overall the decks seems really solid...
Any thoughts on adding Spine of Ish Shah + Phyrexia's Core? If you drop an Urzas land each turn, then turn 3 you destroy any permanent, then sac it to Core, gain a life, get Spine back, and do it every single turn. You could get them to 0 land pretty quickly if they miss a land drop
It's not searchable with Eye of Ugin, and I doubt you'll be wanting to search for Phyrexia's Core with your land tutors once you have Tron online. At that point, it'd be much better to run Mindslaver / Academy Ruins.
EDIT: I dun gon seen daggon son***** usin' crop rotation and summer bloom with put-in-your-hand land grab effects *spits into spitoon*
Yea, it is...
except its not modern legal...
540 Peasant cube- Gold EditionSomething SpicyOh whoops, I thought this was a different forum hehe.
Hmm, so I don't get banhammered for being irrelevant...
Is Thoughtcast an option? I get the feeling you can mix affinity in to make up for the slowness of tron.
Updated
4 Urza's Tower
4 Urza's Mine
2 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Forest
1 City of Brass
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Academy Ruins
1 Eye of Ugin
4 Karn Liberated
3 Wurmcoil Engine
3 Oblivion Stone
4 Pyroclasm
4 Chromatic Star
3 Chromatic Sphere
3 Relic of Progenitus
3 Prophetic Prism
4 Sylvan Scrying
4 Exploration Map
-1 Grove, +1 City of Brass
-2 Explore, +2 Pyroclasm
-1 Firespout, +1 Wurmcoil
2 Faith's Shield
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Combust
4 Slaughter Games
2 Batterskull
1 Mindslaver
-1 Sundering Titan
+1 Slaughter Games
You're going to be blowing up a permanant every turn though. With all our land fetching getting a core onto the table is simple. And I wouldn't replace Karn with them, I would add them in on top of Karn. 3 Karns's and 4 Spines is 7 repeatable permanant destruction tricks the deck can pull off, starting on turn 3. I think Tron could be a really punishing LD deck, just lkeep them manaless while we draw into a finisher. But not having tried it, I can't say whther it's good or not yet. I think it passes the "sleeve it up and try it a few times" test
To make room, you can go 3 Karn instead of 4, and cut some of your mana cantrips to 3 of's vs 4 of's
I think it would be fun to maybe go Trading Post with a list too, you get awesome drawpower with Ichor Wellspring, you can recur artifacts out of your graveyard easily, you can chump block infect dudes with goats, etc
I'm going to start messing with decklists, for modern FNM Tron is the only real deck I have 90% of the cards for. I'll brew some decklist variants and let you know how they do.
1) Why Slaughter games over Cranial Extraction? Is uncounterable really that important over the ease of casting?
2) Any consideration for a card like Lingering Souls in the SB for the Infect MU? Seems the answer for us is to delay them as much as possible and that seems like it could be an answer.
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4x Spine of Ish Shah
4x Ichor Wellspring
4x Expedition Map
4x Chromatic Star
3x Trading Post
3x Oblivion Sphere
3x Chromatic Sphere
3x Sylvan Scrying
3x Ancient Stirrings
Creatures: 6
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1x Kozileck, Butcher of Truth
1x Sundering Titan
3x Wurmcoil Engine
3x Karn, Liberated
Land
3x Forest
1x Eye of Ugin
4x Phyrexia's Core
4x Urza's Power Plant
4x Urza's Mine
4x Urza's Tower
So I've just been goldfishing, but man, does this deck draw a LOT of cards. Trading Post makes your Ichor Wellspring's net you 3 cards, it doubles your draw from Chromatic Star, and it can recur any of them if needed. Coupled with Spine of Ish Shah you are blowing up permanents and draw cards every turn. It's such a great engine I might up it to 4.
If you don't have Post out Phyrexia's Core gives you a handy sac outlet to help you draw cards, Ancient Stirrings finds what you need, and you still have the land searching suite to assemble Tron with. And once you got it you have all sorts of goodies to play with this deck usually gives you.
I goldfished it about 10 times, and every time by turn 4-5 it was just doing nutty stuff, and it's pretty resilient against bad hands cause of all the draw. I haven't bothered thinking about a board yet because I haven't played the deck live yet, I'll give it a whirl this Friday
Answers:
1. Yes, being uncounterable really is that good. Getting BR is actually almost as easy as getting B in the normal RG build, and against at least half the decks you want to board Slaughter Games in, your opponent can easily counter Cranial Extraction (Scapeshift, Hive Mind, Exarch Twin). I was inspired to try Slaughter Games after trying Rakdos's Return. Hive Mind consistently Pact of Negationed it and paid for the Pact, and UR Storm comboed off through it once with Pyromancer's Ascension. (Yeah, Scapeshift would totally Cryptic Command that.) I found Slaughter Games had comparable speed to Rakdos's Return, was much harder to stop, and could consistently be cast through a Blood Moon to boot.
2. I wouldn't consider Lingering Souls for the Infect match-up because you'll likely have only enough mana fixing to cast it once (in a timely manner, at least). At that point, you may as well cast Midnight Haunting instead. Some people are fine with stuff like Electrickery, Spellskite, Melira, and Sudden Shock.