actually bonfire seems like a good card i mean if your opp is hitting you for 1 so be it you have turn 3 karn or throught the breach turn 4 i dont unerstand this whole 1/2 goyf thats a terrible reason not to run bonfire imo
I think Talismans and Pyroclasm are to be both run mainboard.
I just threw a list together with little playtesting. Is explore really even needed? I think the other poster has a point in cutting explores. I ran 4 and never saw them. Eventually I cut down to 3 and never seem to see/cast them. Very rarely when I do see them to cast them, I dont often get to play another land off of them for lack of lands in my hand.
I'm curious about the 4 MD Nihil Spellbombs in some decks. Are Aggro Loam and Past in Flames just that popular on MODO? I guess it helps with 'goyfs as well but they just seem really random. The list with them does have multiple 4-0's, though, is it just another cantrip with upside and that's good enough? Also I'm all for more sweepers, but 4 'clasms main seems a bit much as they're dead against combo and the mirror.
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Standard: Humanimator
Modern: Jund, Wafo-Tapa UWR
Legacy: Witch-Maw Stoneblade
EDH: Ruhan of the Fomori, Hazezon Tamar, Maga, Traitor to Mortals
Artifact Tron (my personal name for the deck, as it runs sooooo many seemingly useless artifacts) originally ran Prophetic Prism as a cantrip rock. After figuring out that Mindslaver was a 10-mana Time Walk against a significant number of decks, it primarily replaced the Prism with a more useful cantrip rock--Relic of Progenitus.
Pyroclasm beats Grim Lavamancer (Exarch Twin) and Empty the Warrens (UR Storm), at least. Other than that, if your meta is full of blue-based fast combo decks or tons of Tron, it may be time to board 'Clasms out. I generally haven't lost much speed replacing mana rocks with 'Clasms, though, and I'd bet mana rocks are just as useless against UR Storm.
I've just recently built this deck and I haven't gotten a lot of testing done, but I'm thinking that Burn and Storm are going to be fairly troublesome. The current sideboard plan is just Wurmcoil Engines and a single Mindslaver that gets used for the Storm matchup, but I feel it could be improved upon. Any thoughts? Here's my current build:
One tip for No Slaver builds when Melira Pod has gained infinite life but you've successfully cut them off from infinite damage with topdecked Pyroclasm/Relic of Progenitus/Karn/Emrakul/etc.--you can legitimately win the game, even if you have fewer cards in your library than they do. Just get an Eldrazi and continuously wipe the board. With your effective infinite turns, cast Karn, pump his loyalty, exile an Eldrazi with him, and restart the game. They are now at 20 life (with no permanents) and you have an Eldrazi. Winning should be elementary from here.
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Storm is probably the worst matchup. If you're on the draw, you're not going to drop a threat fast enough. You'll turn 3 Karn or Wurmcoil or something and they'll go off on their turn 4. And of course, there's a lot of times they can go off on turn 3. Maybe not consistently, but definitely something they can try if they're scared. If you drop a Wurmcoil, they'll certainly try it. Plus they play Remand now, so they an just stop your threat a turn and it'll make all the difference. Them boarding into Twin can be bad too since they can leave in some rituals and win after you resolve a Karn.
Storm is probably the worst matchup. If you're on the draw, you're not going to drop a threat fast enough. You'll turn 3 Karn or Wurmcoil or something and they'll go off on their turn 4. And of course, there's a lot of times they can go off on turn 3. Maybe not consistently, but definitely something they can try if they're scared. If you drop a Wurmcoil, they'll certainly try it. Plus they play Remand now, so they an just stop your threat a turn and it'll make all the difference. Them boarding into Twin can be bad too since they can leave in some rituals and win after you resolve a Karn.
Aside from boarding in more relics game 2 and 3, I also board in 4x Urza's Armor. In my experience it will stall them long enough (1-2 turns) to bust out mindslaver and go to town, or sometimes they get locked out completely whenever artifact hate doesn't get drawn. Shuts down exarch part of twin too.
It appears that the versions on the Daily Events are shifting towards a creature package of 1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn and 3-4x Wurmcoil Engine. Is this becoming the consensus creature package? I had upped the creature count and included Through the Breach, but I don't think it was worth a drop in consistency. Wurmcoil, however, usually seems to get the job done.
I just never felt that I was fast enough. The performance was really inconsistent, which I'm sure includes bad matchups and mulligan issues, but I've started to tweak towards a more efficient build, leaving the Breach plan behind for now. Something like -1 creature, -3 Breach and +4 Explore.
Mindslaver may be nutsy against UR Storm (kill them with their own Storm spell), likely Exarch Twin (kill their own combo pieces), Jund (especially when Liliana OTV is at 6 loyalty--muahahahaha!), Melira Pod (fail to search with Birthing Pod, sac everything to Viscera Seer), and RUG Tempo Thresh (kill their own dudes, counter their own other stuff, etc.), but it's often a 10-mana Time Walk against other decks (e.g. W/x Tokens, Affinity if they don't run Arcbound Ravager, Mono-Blue Faeries), and it's particularly bad when both players are in topdeck mode (not as much fun stuff in hands). I've found I can reliably kill with Eldrazi anyway (even if I have to restart the game with Karn's ultimate against infinite-life Melira Pod).
Mindslaver may be nutsy against UR Storm (kill them with their own Storm spell), likely Exarch Twin (kill their own combo pieces), Jund (especially when Liliana OTV is at 6 loyalty--muahahahaha!), Melira Pod (fail to search with Birthing Pod, sac everything to Viscera Seer), and RUG Tempo Thresh (kill their own dudes, counter their own other stuff, etc.), but it's often a 10-mana Time Walk against other decks (e.g. W/x Tokens, Affinity if they don't run Arcbound Ravager, Mono-Blue Faeries), and it's particularly bad when both players are in topdeck mode (not as much fun stuff in hands). I've found I can reliably kill with Eldrazi anyway (even if I have to restart the game with Karn's ultimate against infinite-life Melira Pod).
Basically what I am asking is should Mindslaver be SB or MD material. Right now my list plays 1 Wurmcoil, 1 Ulamog, 1 Emrakul, 3 Karn, and 4 Mindslaver for win cons. I am thinking to out the 4 Mindslaver in favor for 4 Explore. My current list MD's 3-4 Pyroclasm and 1 All Is Dust, so I have do not have much room to play with.
Ive been following this deck since i saw a dude destroying everybody online... Cant think of his name but it was sick...
This deck has problems against any "good" burn/RDW deck, I say this because I just finished losing a bunch of games to it:(... If i didnt assemble tron and find a wurmcoil I was destroyed...
Just saying from experience...this deck needs some better sideboard options against RDW. Im at a loss though...
I apologize for the silliness of this question but I'm just coming back after some time away and why/how is Karn good in this deck?
Meaning, how do you play him? Does he have synergy? Or is he a stand alone threat? Are you pitching your own cards and popping his ultimate or is he just hand disruption/removal in colorless? Why is he so good in this deck? I assume the idea is that with the Urza lands up he's cheap as hell utility but having not played the deck yet I'm not sure.
Enlighten me please! Thanks
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Modern RG RG Tron GR RUG RUG Twin RUG X Affinity X
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kinda poops on aggro decks
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GYisan Toolbox Combo/ControlG
I just threw a list together with little playtesting. Is explore really even needed? I think the other poster has a point in cutting explores. I ran 4 and never saw them. Eventually I cut down to 3 and never seem to see/cast them. Very rarely when I do see them to cast them, I dont often get to play another land off of them for lack of lands in my hand.
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GYisan Toolbox Combo/ControlG
Modern: Jund, Wafo-Tapa UWR
Legacy: Witch-Maw Stoneblade
EDH: Ruhan of the Fomori, Hazezon Tamar, Maga, Traitor to Mortals
Pyroclasm beats Grim Lavamancer (Exarch Twin) and Empty the Warrens (UR Storm), at least. Other than that, if your meta is full of blue-based fast combo decks or tons of Tron, it may be time to board 'Clasms out. I generally haven't lost much speed replacing mana rocks with 'Clasms, though, and I'd bet mana rocks are just as useless against UR Storm.
4x Urza's Power Plant
4x Urza's Mine
4x Urza's Tower
4x Grove of the Burnwillows
2x Forest
1x Eye of Ugin
Creatures: 3
1x Wurmcoil Engine
1x Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4x Chromatic Star
4x Chromatic Sphere
4x Relic of Progenitus
4x Expedition Map
4x Ancient Stirrings
4x Sylvan Scrying
4x Pyroclasm
4x Explore
2x Oblivion Stone
4x Karn Liberated
3x Ancient Grudge
2x Seal of Primordium
2x Combust
2x Spellskite
2x Wurmcoil Engine
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Torpor Orb
1x Mindslaver
1x Oblivion Stone
Other than that, I'm not sure how else to improve the match-up against UR Storm. Getting a clock on them is a good start, though.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
One tip for No Slaver builds when Melira Pod has gained infinite life but you've successfully cut them off from infinite damage with topdecked Pyroclasm/Relic of Progenitus/Karn/Emrakul/etc.--you can legitimately win the game, even if you have fewer cards in your library than they do. Just get an Eldrazi and continuously wipe the board. With your effective infinite turns, cast Karn, pump his loyalty, exile an Eldrazi with him, and restart the game. They are now at 20 life (with no permanents) and you have an Eldrazi. Winning should be elementary from here.
I'm a proud member of the Online Campaign for Real English. If you believe in capital letters, correct spelling, and good sentence structure, then copy this into your signature.
"People with needs have trivial purchasing power while people with purchasing power have trivial needs."
-Steve Randy Waldman, Interfludity
I like it for Affinity, it being cheaper to cast, and forces opponents to play around it while it is on the board.
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
Aside from boarding in more relics game 2 and 3, I also board in 4x Urza's Armor. In my experience it will stall them long enough (1-2 turns) to bust out mindslaver and go to town, or sometimes they get locked out completely whenever artifact hate doesn't get drawn. Shuts down exarch part of twin too.
Modern: Twin URW Wilted Abzan WBG
Legacy: Stax WWW Maverick WBG
Cockatrice ID: Voltigasm
Anyone else using this instead of nature's claim?
I got tired of using ancient stirrings only to see the claim I needed get put on the bottom of my library.
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Forest
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Academy Ruins
4 Chromatic Star
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Sylvan Scrying
4 Expedition Map
3 Relic of Progenitus
2 Oblivion Stone
3 Through the Breach
4 Pyroclasm
1 Emrakul, the Aeon's Torn
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Ulamog, the Ultimate Gyre
1 Sundering Titan
I just never felt that I was fast enough. The performance was really inconsistent, which I'm sure includes bad matchups and mulligan issues, but I've started to tweak towards a more efficient build, leaving the Breach plan behind for now. Something like -1 creature, -3 Breach and +4 Explore.
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GYisan Toolbox Combo/ControlG
Basically what I am asking is should Mindslaver be SB or MD material. Right now my list plays 1 Wurmcoil, 1 Ulamog, 1 Emrakul, 3 Karn, and 4 Mindslaver for win cons. I am thinking to out the 4 Mindslaver in favor for 4 Explore. My current list MD's 3-4 Pyroclasm and 1 All Is Dust, so I have do not have much room to play with.
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GYisan Toolbox Combo/ControlG
This deck has problems against any "good" burn/RDW deck, I say this because I just finished losing a bunch of games to it:(... If i didnt assemble tron and find a wurmcoil I was destroyed...
Just saying from experience...this deck needs some better sideboard options against RDW. Im at a loss though...
(still love this deck)
Meaning, how do you play him? Does he have synergy? Or is he a stand alone threat? Are you pitching your own cards and popping his ultimate or is he just hand disruption/removal in colorless? Why is he so good in this deck? I assume the idea is that with the Urza lands up he's cheap as hell utility but having not played the deck yet I'm not sure.
Enlighten me please! Thanks
Modern
RG RG Tron GR
RUG RUG Twin RUG
X Affinity X