i really like this idea. I'd try simian spirit guide in the deck as well to be able to have a turn 1 blighted agent or plague myr. it might be greedy, but splashing red through simian spirit guide, and copperline gorge for assault strobe does give you the chance at a turn 2 win. Best case scenario:
t1 heart guide + yavimaya coast for blighted agent
t2 copperline gorge, assault strobe and then groundswell for lethal.
however this iss a format packed full of lightning bolt and hand disruption haha so what im presenting might not be that viable
The mana base is pretty stable, although i was thinking of putting a few more dual lands into the fray. Blighted agent is an amazing card, and it is the reason that blue is in there. vapor snag is an answer to Melira, the only thing that shuts down this deck completely. Plus, i was thinking it might be beneficial to have some counter spells in the sideboard, for game 2.
The simian spirit guide looks awesome, except it would need to take up at least 4 slots, and then assualt strobe would be another 4, and i think everything really pulls its weight. Also, in response to lightning bolts and path to exile, a tenth of the cards in the deck give some sort of hexproof.
bonesplitter might be a card to consider, as mentionned since your not running breeding pools and you don't plan to have many lands, groundswell looks underwhelming.
i would also be prepared to have to fight through grim lavamancer since your deck is very proactive you should not commit to many cards in your sideboard to any one matchup.
jund seems like it could be trickey because of their hand disruption+removal spells and you should consider how discard affects your game plan.
gitaxian probe is also always good, helps you decide when to swing all in or not.
I feel that you can either let go of ichorclaw myr or plague myr since you have 4 inkmoths. I run 12 creatures without inkmoths and it is working out fine. sometimes i get screwed but I still do very well.
also against aggro, i like apostle's blessing over ranger's guile. they will chump block so hexproof is kinda dead in the air. That or predator's strike.
Apostle's Blessing could be another card to consider, helps make sure your guy gets in there for the kill. I used to run All-in green Infect back in standard when Zendikar was still in the rotation, you can get turn 2-3 kills if you're lucky.
Would it be worth looking at converting this to more aggro-control? Toss in Spell Snare and/or Remand and/or Dispel, and perhaps some draw, and take out a few of the pumps? I know that pump and swing is how Infect is played much of the time, but as others said there is a lot of burn/discard floating about so you need to find a way to get past that.
My current Standard UG infect is aggro-control and it doesn't run as well as all out pump. The current standard pump cards right now are horrible. However the OPs list does run more pump than most lists. Adding a few counters and maybe Echoing truth is okay in my opinion.
The question is how many control cards do we add and how much pump do we drop. It's a hard equation to balance since you also have to balance the number of protect spells for your creatures. I feel 8-10 creatures is enough with a playset of Inkmoth Nexus and I usually run 4-6 protect spells. Maybe 12 control cards. Also I love Apostle's Blessing or vines against twin. Early combo off? nope. lol.
I say that actually looks okay on paper. Maybe subtract 2 control and add 2 pump. Plus we have access to the best pump spells. I honestly don't like this list and add some counters and bounces on sideboard but it could honestly be more effective than just traditional pump.
The SB is really sketchy right now because I am trying to decide between two infect builds for the one that gets my attentionm, but Dispel is a hard yes.
I went with almost a tempo build, rather than control. I really do feel the loss of some pump spells at times, but many games would have ended early without the stall/control elements. I like Dispel in the SB because if you are hitting a deck running blue you want that puppy in there to keep things from getting countered. Otherwise the card replacment and stall of Remand is enough a lot of the time.
I notice that no one runs Thrumming Bird, but I have had good success with it. I obviously only have 2 Inkmoth right now (if I played Modern in meat-space I could make this deck twice over, but I play modern online), so an extra flyer that bumps the poison count works well. If I don't run that I might rework the mana base for UBG and get Plague Stinger on board, but Thrummer is doing fine. Since I am not seeing pump as much as I would like it would often do me no good to have an infect flier anyway.
Simian Spirit Guide: I am really torn on this. It did save me a couple times, but that was only when I mulled in to a poor hand and got poor draws, so it never really allowed for a quick Agent. Then again, it was rarely a dead card either. If I yoink it I will add more pump probably, and maybe another land. Twenty-one land count is pretty reliable if you have good lands and you have SSG for emergencies, but without the monkey ghost I would worry about bad beginnings too often.
Plague Myr: I am not hot on this little bot. It is not fast, is not evasive, and the mana rarely does more than fuel Inkmoth, and even that is just for comfort. I have yet to get much infect out of him, so I am tempted to replace it with a real mana-dork (BoP, or Hierarch), or Icky Claw.
The problem with Thrummingbird is 1 poison counter each turn is very underwhelming. I really like Groundswell over Might of Old krosa because I like seeing what my opponent does in reaction to my swings before committing using a pump.
16 creatures is viable. Sometimes 12 creatures feels too few but I like it at 12. SSG looks really good now that I think about it. Turn 2 Blighted agent sometimes felt 1 turn too late but having turn 1 Blighted agent, Plagued myr, Ichorclaw Myr, and Glistener Elf makes this deck feel way more threatening. Definitely will try it out.
What turn are you usually winning by with the addition of (or more) control?
The problem with Thrummingbird is 1 poison counter each turn is very underwhelming. I really like Groundswell over Might of Old krosa because I like seeing what my opponent does in reaction to my swings before committing using a pump.
I am trying to do too much to have to sweat Landfall at the same time. Too many things have to come together, and at 22 my land drops are consistent enough to get the troops out, but not consistent enough for Groundswell- too many stars have to be in alignment. I know what you mean about Might, it just feels wrong to cast it during first main, but it has not hurt me that I know of. It is such a big boost, and I generally target a creature they cannot block, so aside from catching a poor player removing my creature before I declare attackers there is not that much that can be done. You want to hear a weird thought I had (that I am pretty sure would not work), but I was thinking about a splice build that repeatedly used Kodama's Might. It would be amazing if it worked (kamigawa in da house!), but unless I am missing something it looks too casual on paper.
SSG looks really good now that I think about it. Turn 2 Blighted agent sometimes felt 1 turn too late but having turn 1 Blighted agent, Plagued myr, Ichorclaw Myr, and Glistener Elf makes this deck feel way more threatening. Definitely will try it out.
Try it, but I am not sold on it yet.
What turn are you usually winning by with the addition of (or more) control?
Turn 4 when things are going right, turn 7-8 when I have to scrap a bit, but if I am not getting close by turn 5 I get really nervous about my chances. Pulled off a turn 2 win once- major god-hand.
I feel like there is a hybrid deck in here somwhere, but I am not sure if it is UG tempo or UBG aggro/control (using removal). I will say that the chatty people I faced said that they had faced UG infect once or twice before and it was a very respectable deck.
Update:
I only got a couple of matches in tonight, but UBG seems very workable and 16 infectors + 3 decent mana dorks is great. I went with Hierarch because swinging in the early game is done so often with a solitary creature. It does slow things down in the first few turns though, and that worries me in theory. The matches tonight were against tron and a rogue UR vore deck.
It is pretty amusing how similar that is to my UGB list. I feel like 12 is not enough infect creatures, but I could see trying 14. My current list looks like this:
Assault Strobe is a decent idea. but I do not want to have to worry about red mana, since I am not Running SSG at the moment. I also feel like I could improve my pump more, but not to 15- I like more control elements personally. Crusader in the SB is a interesting idea too, but I am not sure what it is there for...probably the jund matchup. I rely on Revoker for Jund as Lili is really the biggest threat.
But you are running (some) white. Double Cleave? It costs an extra mana, but is also instant speed.
I am running one white source because I happen to have it. I almost never cast Apostle's Blessing by tapping white a white mana source. If I end up staying with Hierarch then I will look at white cards, but until then I do not want to rely on them. It is a good idea though
dang. I really want to try this assualt strobe verison. Looks very lethal but I don't like playing too many pump at sorcery speed. I don't want to change my mana base too much though.
dang. I really want to try this assualt strobe verison. Looks very lethal but I don't like playing too many pump at sorcery speed. I don't want to change my mana base too much though.
You really don't have to if you are running SSG. Perhaps toss a COB in there. It is doable, I am just not convinced it is worth replacing control and/or pump elements.
9 forest
4 Hinterland harbor
4 Yavimaya Coast
3 Ichorclaw myr
3 plague myr
4 glistener elf
4 blighted agent
4 giant growth
4 might of old krosa
4 mutagenic growth
2 ranger's guile
4 vines of vastwood
4 groundswell
3 vapor snag
I was thinking 2 more guiles for SB, some fogs, and other stuff.
Any comments would be great!
although not about breeding pool, i know its awesome, i just have none.
Thanks,
Darkhazard
t1 heart guide + yavimaya coast for blighted agent
t2 copperline gorge, assault strobe and then groundswell for lethal.
however this iss a format packed full of lightning bolt and hand disruption haha so what im presenting might not be that viable
UW
Have you considered monogreen? It would be a bit more all in but could be fine
The simian spirit guide looks awesome, except it would need to take up at least 4 slots, and then assualt strobe would be another 4, and i think everything really pulls its weight. Also, in response to lightning bolts and path to exile, a tenth of the cards in the deck give some sort of hexproof.
i would also be prepared to have to fight through grim lavamancer since your deck is very proactive you should not commit to many cards in your sideboard to any one matchup.
jund seems like it could be trickey because of their hand disruption+removal spells and you should consider how discard affects your game plan.
Guiles are good sideboard. maybe livewire lash?
gitaxian probe is also always good, helps you decide when to swing all in or not.
I feel that you can either let go of ichorclaw myr or plague myr since you have 4 inkmoths. I run 12 creatures without inkmoths and it is working out fine. sometimes i get screwed but I still do very well.
also against aggro, i like apostle's blessing over ranger's guile. they will chump block so hexproof is kinda dead in the air. That or predator's strike.
Sexy Sig by mchief111 @ Rising Studios
EDH
G Isao
Good sideboard cards would be Contagion Clasp and Corrupted Conscience.
Big thanks to Rivenor for the sig!
3 Ranger's guile
3 fog
2 Hurkyl's recall
2 surgical extraction
3 negate
The negates are supposed to be any cheap counter, im not sure which one would be best as i dont play control.
Also, what do you guys think is the most effective way of killing melira? thats what vapor snag is for, but im not sure which to do.
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The question is how many control cards do we add and how much pump do we drop. It's a hard equation to balance since you also have to balance the number of protect spells for your creatures. I feel 8-10 creatures is enough with a playset of Inkmoth Nexus and I usually run 4-6 protect spells. Maybe 12 control cards. Also I love Apostle's Blessing or vines against twin. Early combo off? nope. lol.
21 lands
10 creatures
4-6 protect
12 counter/bounce?
11 pump spells
I say that actually looks okay on paper. Maybe subtract 2 control and add 2 pump. Plus we have access to the best pump spells. I honestly don't like this list and add some counters and bounces on sideboard but it could honestly be more effective than just traditional pump.
Sexy Sig by mchief111 @ Rising Studios
EDH
G Isao
4 Glistener Elf
4 Thrumming Bird
4 Plague Myr
3 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Blighted Agent
Pump:
4 Might of Old Krosa
2 Giant Growth
4 Mutagenic Growth
Control:
4 Remand
3 Spell Snare
3 Apostle's Blessing
4 Hinterland Harbor
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Temple Garden
2 Inkmoth Nexus
3 Ghost Quarter
4 Forest
3 Island
3 Grafdigger's Cage
4 Dispel
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Kitchen Finks
I went with almost a tempo build, rather than control. I really do feel the loss of some pump spells at times, but many games would have ended early without the stall/control elements. I like Dispel in the SB because if you are hitting a deck running blue you want that puppy in there to keep things from getting countered. Otherwise the card replacment and stall of Remand is enough a lot of the time.
I notice that no one runs Thrumming Bird, but I have had good success with it. I obviously only have 2 Inkmoth right now (if I played Modern in meat-space I could make this deck twice over, but I play modern online), so an extra flyer that bumps the poison count works well. If I don't run that I might rework the mana base for UBG and get Plague Stinger on board, but Thrummer is doing fine. Since I am not seeing pump as much as I would like it would often do me no good to have an infect flier anyway.
Simian Spirit Guide: I am really torn on this. It did save me a couple times, but that was only when I mulled in to a poor hand and got poor draws, so it never really allowed for a quick Agent. Then again, it was rarely a dead card either. If I yoink it I will add more pump probably, and maybe another land. Twenty-one land count is pretty reliable if you have good lands and you have SSG for emergencies, but without the monkey ghost I would worry about bad beginnings too often.
Plague Myr: I am not hot on this little bot. It is not fast, is not evasive, and the mana rarely does more than fuel Inkmoth, and even that is just for comfort. I have yet to get much infect out of him, so I am tempted to replace it with a real mana-dork (BoP, or Hierarch), or Icky Claw.
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16 creatures is viable. Sometimes 12 creatures feels too few but I like it at 12. SSG looks really good now that I think about it. Turn 2 Blighted agent sometimes felt 1 turn too late but having turn 1 Blighted agent, Plagued myr, Ichorclaw Myr, and Glistener Elf makes this deck feel way more threatening. Definitely will try it out.
What turn are you usually winning by with the addition of (or more) control?
Sexy Sig by mchief111 @ Rising Studios
EDH
G Isao
Try it, but I am not sold on it yet.
Turn 4 when things are going right, turn 7-8 when I have to scrap a bit, but if I am not getting close by turn 5 I get really nervous about my chances. Pulled off a turn 2 win once- major god-hand.
I feel like there is a hybrid deck in here somwhere, but I am not sure if it is UG tempo or UBG aggro/control (using removal). I will say that the chatty people I faced said that they had faced UG infect once or twice before and it was a very respectable deck.
Update:
I only got a couple of matches in tonight, but UBG seems very workable and 16 infectors + 3 decent mana dorks is great. I went with Hierarch because swinging in the early game is done so often with a solitary creature. It does slow things down in the first few turns though, and that worries me in theory. The matches tonight were against tron and a rogue UR vore deck.
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It seems very good, and has consistent turn 2 kills, that is, without disruption. To make it more budget friendly you can add another gemstone mine, and a couple Tendo Ice Bridge.
EDIT: Instead of shocklands.
4 Glistener Elf
4 Plague Stinger
4 Ichorclaw Myr
3 Noble Hierarch
4 Blighted Agent
Pump:
4 Might of Old Krosa
2 Groundswell
4 Mutagenic Growth
Control:
4 Remand
3 Dismember
3 Apostle's Blessing
2 Verdant Catacombs
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Temple Garden
1 Overgrown Tomb
3 Watery Grave
2 Inkmoth Nexus
2 Ghost Quarter
4 Forest
2 Island
1 Dismember
3 Grafdigger's Cage
4 Dispel
4 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Maelstrom Pulse
Assault Strobe is a decent idea. but I do not want to have to worry about red mana, since I am not Running SSG at the moment. I also feel like I could improve my pump more, but not to 15- I like more control elements personally. Crusader in the SB is a interesting idea too, but I am not sure what it is there for...probably the jund matchup. I rely on Revoker for Jund as Lili is really the biggest threat.
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I am running one white source because I happen to have it. I almost never cast Apostle's Blessing by tapping white a white mana source. If I end up staying with Hierarch then I will look at white cards, but until then I do not want to rely on them. It is a good idea though
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Sexy Sig by mchief111 @ Rising Studios
EDH
G Isao
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