Siding for twin is ok. However, siding for twin pod should be different in my opinion. Restoration angels are a big problem and spellskite is not that necessary since it does not target angel-kiki jiki combo and there are not many spells to redirect to spellskite. I would rather side like this:
Yea I should have taken a better look at that, I don't normally bring in spellskite against Naya Pod, I'm not sure I'd want to board out rancor though.
From my point of views as Naya-Pod player Spellskite doesn't do much
However, Rancor is sometimes your only real chance of winning, if I'm able to push some Angels and birds through.
Also I personally wouldn't bring in Nature's Claim on the play at least, since it hinder's your own speed and Infect is faster at goldfishing. Agent is awesome against us too, since we normally only have 2-3 Combust if anything. On the draw its another story since Chord for Spellskite can be pretty harsh, but on the play I would try to stick to the original gameplan (=a fast kill) and only bring dismember to deal with possibly Melira/Spellskite.
You don't want skite s=against pod, I need to fix that. I would still bring in claim because it kills pod as well as the skite they will try to pod/chord for. I also agree that cutting rancor here is wrong.
You don't want skite s=against pod, I need to fix that. I would still bring in claim because it kills pod as well as the skite they will try to pod/chord for. I also agree that cutting rancor here is wrong.
that's true, but againt Twin you need both Spellskite (stops Pestermite and Splinter Twin) and Nature's Claim (for Twin's Spellskite and Splinter Twin). In the other hand, Twin has more control than Naya Pod... Expect some numbers of Grim Lavamancer, Spellskite, Spell Pierce, Dispel, and a removal that would depend of the decklist (Izzet Charm, Flame Slash, Electrostatic Bolt)... Maybe Echoing Truth too (isn't 'counterable' by pump spells like burn).
On a side note, what do you think if the Twin player brings Blood Moon from their SB? Too slow?
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that's true, but againt Twin you need both Spellskite (stops Pestermite and Splinter Twin) and Nature's Claim (for Twin's Spellskite and Splinter Twin). In the other hand, Twin has more control than Naya Pod... Expect some numbers of Grim Lavamancer, Spellskite, Spell Pierce, Dispel, and a removal that would depend of the decklist (Izzet Charm, Flame Slash, Electrostatic Bolt)... Maybe Echoing Truth too (isn't 'counterable' by pump spells like burn).
On a side note, what do you think if the Twin player brings Blood Moon from their SB? Too slow?
With the addition of hierarch bloodmoon isn't a terribly scary card. It can do serious damage game 2 if you don't have a hierarch but game 3 when you know to play around it it isn't nearly as powerful. Twin already has lots of strong options against us, I don't think bloodmoon is necessary.
I'm really not a fan of cathedral or gemstone mine, I wouldn't risk the sake of consistency for a few more exalted triggers. While they are great in the long game I'd prefer to just win the game early. We run light on lands as it is, being stuck on one or no green sources will end a game in your opponent's favor quickly.
Started off the modern PE strong this weekend with a win over scapeshift but was mysteriously dropped from the event so my testing ended early. I did manage to 3-0-1 a DE yesterday splitting the finals so the other player could get their last QPs for the mocs. I beat the mirror 2-0, souls jund 2-0, and storm 2-0. I'm running a slightly more resilient build that ill post when I get home from work.
I can't wait to see your newest build.
Also Tron boarded in a Grim Poppet against me the other day on MtGO. I didn't have a Nature's Claim so he 4 for 1'd me and then easily won. Just something to look out for.
I can't wait to see your newest build.
Also Tron boarded in a Grim Poppet against me the other day on MtGO. I didn't have a Nature's Claim so he 4 for 1'd me and then easily won. Just something to look out for.
Yea I've seen poppet used once before. Imo karn, emrakul, and oblivion stone are all just as problematic, I always board in my claims and thoughtseizes here.
hey chags, any chance we could get a look at the resilient build you were talking about? I've recently had a few ugly run ins with goblins and scepter control (???). Even heavy protection in the sideboard wasn't enough
hey chags, any chance we could get a look at the resilient build you were talking about? I've recently had a few ugly run ins with goblins and scepter control (???). Even heavy protection in the sideboard wasn't enough
Yep sorry, was a bit busy with work. Unfortunately I went 3-3 in the modern PE tonight. I beat souls jund 2-0, rg tron twice 2-0 (both times), lost to ur storm 1-2 (I played a high risk game 3), UWb resto tokens (uw angels with lingering souls and favorable winds) 0-2, and 4c Gifts 1-2. My Roommate went to GP Toronto this weekend and borrowed my infect deck since I was stuck working. He finished 15th place after making some sideboard changes from what I was running. He was testing Abrupt Decay and while I like it in place of some of the Nature's Claims I don't like it as a 3 of. I haven't had a chance to ask him how he felt about it but you can view his list here: http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/eventcoverage/gptor12/welcome
From the MD I prefer -1 giant growth +1 Rancor. With the SB I would go -1 Abrupt Decay -1 Dismember +2 Nature's Claim. Running both Distortion Strike and Thoughtseize MD has made the deck feel much more resilient. 3 Discard MD seems like a lot but it is such a versatile tool game one and is never really dead game two or three. Being able to board up to 5 discard spells feels like the right number, Inquisition of Kozilek has been testing very well for me. Distortion strike can certainly be dead at times but with the amount of lingering souls in the meta I would not considering cutting it any time soon.
I'm working on another build of infect that utilizes Wild Defiance to blank all the burn in the format but I'm not quite ready to post it yet. Hopefully I can work out the kinks before the PTQ later this month.
Thanks for the quick response. I have always been a fan of MD discard. Interesting to have only 1 mutagenic growth, however thinking back I do agree lately I have found it being less of a game changer/ender, which means that slot would be better served another way.
I have thought about slower builds featuring exalted/wild defiance in bant colors, but so far everything Ive tested has been trash.
On another note, I find myself boarding out Might of old Krosa against a lot of decks. What's your take on krosa these days with all the blockers and instant removal?
I was thinking about bringing in 2 MD discards or 2 MD draws (Serum Visions or something) just to have more T1 drops. You have only Noble Hierarch and Glistener Elves. The latter ones you usually don't even want to drop at T1 without protection. So having disruption or library manipulation to pull of on turn 1 seems like a good idea.
Also at GP Toronto some decks had Sudden Shocks in sideboard, so people are preparing for Infect.
Chags - you said Ari is your friend. Any deeper insight why he dropped idea of playing Infect? He did well at PT. Did he feel that meta has changed enough not to go with Infect again (Souls, Sudden Shocks, people are aware of Infect, etc.)?
Ari would prefer to take some risk and try to call the meta better. Infect was a great call at the PT, no one knew what it was. He played it again at the other modern GP recently and top 16ed with it. Now that people know what it is he would rather play something they aren't ready for. If you look at the GP link he got 13th with 4C Pod, a great choice for this GP. Ari is one of the main people that I run all my brews and changes by, he is still definitely adding to the archetype.
@Milk The list I am working on is BANT. Defiance may be too slow to be good but if I can make it work being able to blank bolt, dismember (with a pump), helix, forked bolt, grapeshot, etc without casting a spell seems very strong. I would not cut might of old krosa at this time, I don't want to slow the deck down too much and might is one of the best pump spells in the deck. +4/+4 is just too good.
By the way I think your list is missing inkmoths. I have a tournament I want to go to on Saturday and want to play this deck but can only find one distortion strike and 2 might of old krosas. I am thinking of replacing the 2 missing mights with giant growth. I know it is not as good when trying to kill but I am limited by my availability and tome constraint . Is this an adequate substitution and what you recommend replacing distortion strike with? I don't except much if any jund but other then that I have no idea what kind of meta it coups be (gonna be full of casual players). Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.
By the way I think your list is missing inkmoths. I have a tournament I want to go to on Saturday and want to play this deck but can only find one distortion strike and 2 might of old krosas. I am thinking of replacing the 2 missing mights with giant growth. I know it is not as good when trying to kill but I am limited by my availability and tome constraint . Is this an adequate substitution and what you recommend replacing distortion strike with? I don't except much if any jund but other then that I have no idea what kind of meta it coups be (gonna be full of casual players). Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.
That is a tough one, you really want the distortion strikes and mights. I'd consider apostle's blessing or just running more discard over strikes if you really can't get them. Play relics in your board in case you run into souls at all. Growth is reasonable, Max out on rancors since you don't have strike.
the value of mutagenic growth is getting lower because we come across with pyroclasm/jund charm less. moreover it doesn't protect against bolt too. It's only plus is t2 kills which is rare and risky most of the time. also I like the main deck thoughtseize instead which also opens space for sideboard. Although the deck loses to some mulligans, it has some free win games and is not vulnerable to a single card like robots deck. In short I like playing this deck
Chalice of the Void turn two or three is almost unbeatable. I have no idea what to do about that card, except hoping i already have a rancor, pendelhaven or hierach out.
They will always play chalice on one so run hurkly's recall, seal of primordium, or abrupt decay and you'll be fine. Personally I run 2 decay and 1 recall to fight it.
Just wanted to post an update after now my 3rd time piloting infect at a modern FNM.
My LGS only has 3 rounds with a big mix of player/deck level. Still, my record has been 3-0, 3-0, 2-1.
Interestingly, I am 4-1 against Jund. I attribute this to MD duress (no thought$ieze here), apostle's blessing, and playing around terminate/bolt by baiting. Noble Hierarch is also a champ. Also beat storm. He overextended tapping out on cantrips.
This week, my loss was to a goblin/RDW mashup that had been converted from standard. First game I mulled to 5 and couldn't get off the ground. Game 2 I drew well, and game three I mulled to 5 without ever seeing a single land (of 20). I kept the 5 instead of going to 4 (bad) and I didn't draw land until turn 4. You can guess how much it mattered.
Also, I cut crusader this week (I had been MD 2x) and instead ran MD blessing (2) and distortion strike (1). For the third slot I cut 1 of my 2 Giant Growths. I kept 2x crusader in the side, and they beasted game 2 against goblins. I might keep them there just for that. I also sided in spellskite against rdw and jund, but didn't see them so it didn't matter.
Melira can be tough but usually infect is faster, especially with an early seize. In this match I don't use my pump spells until I know I can kill them in one or two swings. This way if they drop melira I can still have pump spells to drop their life total. Pod decks take a ton of damage and many times I've managed to swing for 14ish with a plague stinger and kill them. I would absolutely not md abrupt decay, we don't want to be a fair deck and we don't have much room for non "combo" pieces.
Maindeck abrupt decay just seems pretty bad against alot of decks pre sideboard. Sunrise, Jund, Tron, Maverick, Burn and especially Storm and Scapeshift.
We are not really interested in trading one for one with the creature decks, and it's almost no use against many of the combo decks. It is fine in the sideboard against decks we know run good targets, though.
Melira has seen quite a rise in popularity recently, and it really is a shame - i thought Jiki-Pod was a pretty bad matchup to begin with, and with the adding of melira it's a really though deck to beat. I think your biggest chance is winning is by comboing out before them. Use the discard to get Melira, Spellskite or Chord out of their hand early, and then hope to go off turn 3 or 4.
I have only played one melira matchup so far, and i didn't win it, so it's hard to tell if this is the right approach, but it feels like it.
I respect your opinion, but there are a few things i dont agree
against Pod, to discard those cards in early game you need to have your discard card at your opening hand and that the opponent have melira, spellskite or chord in his hand.
if you didnt kill the opponent fast, the discard is useless. at mid game you will prefer to draw an abrupt decay than a thoughtseize or inquisition.
Twin, Tron, Pod use spellskite or melira, and there are popular decks. i dont know what tron list do you play against, but they play now with spellskite, and you also can target oblivion stone
You also said that it's useless against the other decks
Here's an example list of card you can target:
Tron: oblivion stone
Jund: Liliana, and maybe Confidant
Twin: Deceiver Exarch, Pestermite
Affinity: Cranial Plating
Storm: Goblin Electromancer
Mirror: any creature
Red: Grim Lavamancer
I know its not that relevant against some decks, like storm or sunrise, but the purpose of the list is showing that its not a dead card, and it can really help you against melira or spellskite, and dont giving up the first game
i hope the idea is clear, sorry for my english
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Yea I should have taken a better look at that, I don't normally bring in spellskite against Naya Pod, I'm not sure I'd want to board out rancor though.
You don't want skite s=against pod, I need to fix that. I would still bring in claim because it kills pod as well as the skite they will try to pod/chord for. I also agree that cutting rancor here is wrong.
that's true, but againt Twin you need both Spellskite (stops Pestermite and Splinter Twin) and Nature's Claim (for Twin's Spellskite and Splinter Twin). In the other hand, Twin has more control than Naya Pod... Expect some numbers of Grim Lavamancer, Spellskite, Spell Pierce, Dispel, and a removal that would depend of the decklist (Izzet Charm, Flame Slash, Electrostatic Bolt)... Maybe Echoing Truth too (isn't 'counterable' by pump spells like burn).
On a side note, what do you think if the Twin player brings Blood Moon from their SB? Too slow?
i really wish they would reprint invigorate.
With the addition of hierarch bloodmoon isn't a terribly scary card. It can do serious damage game 2 if you don't have a hierarch but game 3 when you know to play around it it isn't nearly as powerful. Twin already has lots of strong options against us, I don't think bloodmoon is necessary.
I'm really not a fan of cathedral or gemstone mine, I wouldn't risk the sake of consistency for a few more exalted triggers. While they are great in the long game I'd prefer to just win the game early. We run light on lands as it is, being stuck on one or no green sources will end a game in your opponent's favor quickly.
Also Tron boarded in a Grim Poppet against me the other day on MtGO. I didn't have a Nature's Claim so he 4 for 1'd me and then easily won. Just something to look out for.
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Yea I've seen poppet used once before. Imo karn, emrakul, and oblivion stone are all just as problematic, I always board in my claims and thoughtseizes here.
Yep sorry, was a bit busy with work. Unfortunately I went 3-3 in the modern PE tonight. I beat souls jund 2-0, rg tron twice 2-0 (both times), lost to ur storm 1-2 (I played a high risk game 3), UWb resto tokens (uw angels with lingering souls and favorable winds) 0-2, and 4c Gifts 1-2. My Roommate went to GP Toronto this weekend and borrowed my infect deck since I was stuck working. He finished 15th place after making some sideboard changes from what I was running. He was testing Abrupt Decay and while I like it in place of some of the Nature's Claims I don't like it as a 3 of. I haven't had a chance to ask him how he felt about it but you can view his list here: http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/eventcoverage/gptor12/welcome
From the MD I prefer -1 giant growth +1 Rancor. With the SB I would go -1 Abrupt Decay -1 Dismember +2 Nature's Claim. Running both Distortion Strike and Thoughtseize MD has made the deck feel much more resilient. 3 Discard MD seems like a lot but it is such a versatile tool game one and is never really dead game two or three. Being able to board up to 5 discard spells feels like the right number, Inquisition of Kozilek has been testing very well for me. Distortion strike can certainly be dead at times but with the amount of lingering souls in the meta I would not considering cutting it any time soon.
I'm working on another build of infect that utilizes Wild Defiance to blank all the burn in the format but I'm not quite ready to post it yet. Hopefully I can work out the kinks before the PTQ later this month.
I have thought about slower builds featuring exalted/wild defiance in bant colors, but so far everything Ive tested has been trash.
On another note, I find myself boarding out Might of old Krosa against a lot of decks. What's your take on krosa these days with all the blockers and instant removal?
Ari would prefer to take some risk and try to call the meta better. Infect was a great call at the PT, no one knew what it was. He played it again at the other modern GP recently and top 16ed with it. Now that people know what it is he would rather play something they aren't ready for. If you look at the GP link he got 13th with 4C Pod, a great choice for this GP. Ari is one of the main people that I run all my brews and changes by, he is still definitely adding to the archetype.
@Milk The list I am working on is BANT. Defiance may be too slow to be good but if I can make it work being able to blank bolt, dismember (with a pump), helix, forked bolt, grapeshot, etc without casting a spell seems very strong. I would not cut might of old krosa at this time, I don't want to slow the deck down too much and might is one of the best pump spells in the deck. +4/+4 is just too good.
That is a tough one, you really want the distortion strikes and mights. I'd consider apostle's blessing or just running more discard over strikes if you really can't get them. Play relics in your board in case you run into souls at all. Growth is reasonable, Max out on rancors since you don't have strike.
They will always play chalice on one so run hurkly's recall, seal of primordium, or abrupt decay and you'll be fine. Personally I run 2 decay and 1 recall to fight it.
My LGS only has 3 rounds with a big mix of player/deck level. Still, my record has been 3-0, 3-0, 2-1.
Interestingly, I am 4-1 against Jund. I attribute this to MD duress (no thought$ieze here), apostle's blessing, and playing around terminate/bolt by baiting. Noble Hierarch is also a champ. Also beat storm. He overextended tapping out on cantrips.
This week, my loss was to a goblin/RDW mashup that had been converted from standard. First game I mulled to 5 and couldn't get off the ground. Game 2 I drew well, and game three I mulled to 5 without ever seeing a single land (of 20). I kept the 5 instead of going to 4 (bad) and I didn't draw land until turn 4. You can guess how much it mattered.
Also, I cut crusader this week (I had been MD 2x) and instead ran MD blessing (2) and distortion strike (1). For the third slot I cut 1 of my 2 Giant Growths. I kept 2x crusader in the side, and they beasted game 2 against goblins. I might keep them there just for that. I also sided in spellskite against rdw and jund, but didn't see them so it didn't matter.
don't you think it's important to main deck abrupt decay?
I respect your opinion, but there are a few things i dont agree
against Pod, to discard those cards in early game you need to have your discard card at your opening hand and that the opponent have melira, spellskite or chord in his hand.
if you didnt kill the opponent fast, the discard is useless. at mid game you will prefer to draw an abrupt decay than a thoughtseize or inquisition.
Twin, Tron, Pod use spellskite or melira, and there are popular decks. i dont know what tron list do you play against, but they play now with spellskite, and you also can target oblivion stone
You also said that it's useless against the other decks
Here's an example list of card you can target:
Tron: oblivion stone
Jund: Liliana, and maybe Confidant
Twin: Deceiver Exarch, Pestermite
Affinity: Cranial Plating
Storm: Goblin Electromancer
Mirror: any creature
Red: Grim Lavamancer
I know its not that relevant against some decks, like storm or sunrise, but the purpose of the list is showing that its not a dead card, and it can really help you against melira or spellskite, and dont giving up the first game
i hope the idea is clear, sorry for my english