So anybody still playing this deck? Also is it better to play straight prime time or add the Hive Mind package?
I've quit playing a month ago because the consistency issues and have not played the Hive Mind build. This deck is really weak after the boards. My meta also had a lot of Hatebears though and that deck just runs over this deck post-board.
For the pact build, run more pacts and run the colors to actually pay for it. You could run 3-4x green pacts and 1x Primeval Titan to tutor it and win the old fashion way, or just Hive-Pact it.
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It's an updated version of Brawl into an epic, new game.
This deck when built turbo glass cannon style can pull off turn 1 wins / lockdown turn 1. It has severe consistency issues.
Game plan is remove SSG to play amulet. Then cast summerbloom off of your kangaroo. Play the land either 1 more time and play amulet or play it 3 times and regrowth the bloom in some way to cast bloom again. From here you can tooth n nail a patron and a crab. This allows you to mill both libraries into the grave. Cast oonas grace to make them draw out. Easy.
Thanks for mentioning it, btw... and how could we have missed hivemind? I feel stupid now =(
And to go off what tog said, yeah, the deck "can" win turn 1. We tried to help it with PiF and Gifts so that it would have decent percentage going off in the turn 3 or 4 range... and then it kinda got filed away til wotc accidentally print us something we could use as summer blooms 5-8.
Hi guys. I've been really attentive to this thread since it come up, I now I decided to goldfish some games with citynoise's build.
First of all, this is really fun, but really skill intensive as well. A lot of math going on. Someone suggested Spinerock Knoll, and is hard to tell what hideaway land should we play. On one hand, Mosswort allows us to not rely on attacking, and that allows us not fetch Boros+Slayers, adding 4+ mana instead. On the other hand, it needs another creature (titan or Mage+the pair above), which sometimes we don't have. I would consider the Knoll, if we are fast enough and able to give 7+ damage.
I noticed, however, how tough is to get all we need in our hand. Amulet, Bloom and Titan is insane. However, missing one of them (usually one of the first, as the Titans we have 8) is fatal, and may take too long to get them. Why not Spoils of the Vault? Increasing the Fetchs count, it allows tutoring for the missing piece turn1 (even a growth chamber), increasing a lot the t2/3 win. Of course, it can kill and exile all good cards, but when I didn't get killed by it, I didn't miss the exiled cards.
Two amulets on the board= 2 untap triggers per tapped permanent entering. In the case of a bounceland it goes like this:
Play bounceland
Both amulets of vigor trigger
you let one trigger resolve
tap for two mana
you let the other trigger resolve
tap for two mana
return bounceland to hand.
If you play a summer bloom with two amulets of vigor out, that is 4 mana per playing of the land, so 4x3=12 mana from summer bloom + 4 mana from the land drop you get per turn=16 mana. You can do a lot with 16 mana..
I've been goldfishing a lot and I can say two things: that I love the deck, and its 2nd turn explosiveness, and that I am missing something to push it next level. Here is the list I've been testing:
Slots that I'm willing to toy with: 2 Muddle, 1 Trade Routs, 1 Time of Need, 2 Trinket Mage and maybe the 4 Spoils (if another route is viable). I'll probably test 4 Sleight of Hand instead of the first 4 cards.
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Trophyless guy.
Thought of the Month: I gave up from trying to require the 'i' on my name: SolesticIo
How have been Explore and Azusa for you? When testing (only one of each though), I found them underwhelming. Explore, unless you have 2 amulets out, just cantrips, and Azusa seems enter a turn later, as well as being a easy target for their otherwise useless removal.
At least, theoretically, is how I see it.
Time Warp, on the other hand, may be really good. It is a pseudo Emrakul, castable from hand, allowing to Hideaway more next turn.
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Trophyless guy.
Thought of the Month: I gave up from trying to require the 'i' on my name: SolesticIo
How have been Explore and Azusa for you? When testing (only one of each though), I found them underwhelming. Explore, unless you have 2 amulets out, just cantrips, and Azusa seems enter a turn later, as well as being a easy target for their otherwise useless removal.
At least, theoretically, is how I see it.
Time Warp, on the other hand, may be really good. It is a pseudo Emrakul, castable from hand, allowing to Hideaway more next turn.
Explore was fine for me, I could go either way on it.
Azusa was bad 99% of the time and acceptable 1% of the time. Overall not worth it imo.
I cut 2x Time Warps early on, once the deck gets going it easily wins, they felt very win-more.
I basically want every spell to cost 0-2cmc or be some kinda Titan-ish thing.
Patron of the Moon is secretly a monster in this deck too. I've won T2-3 multiple times with Patron and no Titans.
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Explore was fine for me, I could go either way on it.
Azusa was bad 99% of the time and acceptable 1% of the time. Overall not worth it imo.
I cut 2x Time Warps early on, once the deck gets going it easily wins, they felt very win-more.
I basically want every spell to cost 0-2cmc or be some kinda Titan-ish thing.
Patron of the Moon is secretly a monster in this deck too. I've won T2-3 multiple times with Patron and no Titans.
I would never cut Time Warp, Hideaway'ing it after you attacked with your titan means you've won usually, the only things I want to Hideaway when attacking with a Titan are Time Warp, Emrakul, or another Titan to grab more Hideaway's to cast more Time Warp's, Emrakul if I haven't, or more Titans.
Explore isn't Summerbloom, but we need to play additional lands, and it nets a cards, it's fine.
Azusa's fine, turn 4 play her off the mana from your lands, and then use a bounce land 3 times to generate 6 mana and cast your Titan.
I would never cut Time Warp, Hideaway'ing it after you attacked with your titan means you've won usually, the only things I want to Hideaway when attacking with a Titan are Time Warp, Emrakul, or another Titan to grab more Hideaway's to cast more Time Warp's, Emrakul if I haven't, or more Titans.
Explore isn't Summerbloom, but we need to play additional lands, and it nets a cards, it's fine.
Azusa's fine, turn 4 play her off the mana from your lands, and then use a bounce land 3 times to generate 6 mana and cast your Titan.
Yes, Time Warp seems the Titan/Emrakul 6-7 to hideaway. Why do we need to play additional lands? Usually I don't want to play all my Karoos and playing only one is useless. And 4th turn is what I said to be a turn later. I think this is able to win t2/3. Also, they can kill azusa in response to Amulet/Bounce triggers, avoiding the other land drops.
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Trophyless guy.
Thought of the Month: I gave up from trying to require the 'i' on my name: SolesticIo
Yes, Time Warp seems the Titan/Emrakul 6-7 to hideaway. Why do we need to play additional lands? Usually I don't want to play all my Karoos and playing only one is useless. And 4th turn is what I said to be a turn later. I think this is able to win t2/3. Also, they can kill azusa in response to Amulet/Bounce triggers, avoiding the other land drops.
I do things like Bounce my Hideaways/Vesuva's and then play explore/summerbloom/Asuza to play those Hideaways/Vesuva's to continue comboing hideaways.
Of course, but Explore and Azusa don't help go off. That's my concern, as I want to have all pieces as soon as possible.
You have Summoner's Pact, Wargate, and Spoils of the Vault to be more consistent, not sure if anything else is worth it. Gemstone Mine for mana consistency.
I have been messing around with this deck and trying to make it competitive for around 2 months now and today I played on a local GPT and did ok. My build is more focused on getting the titan out as quick as possible and hitting for 20 and/or putting the treetop village to make sure I can hit even if I lose the titan. I use hive mind as a second options against decks that deal with the titan too easily. Here is my decklist for today:
I don't like the hideaway lands because it seems to me that to be able to use them I must have already done the titan + bounce + amulet combo and in that case I prefer to just kill with the titan.
Also I don't really understand the whole Patron of the moon combo very well. Anyway, opinions on my decklist are appreciated.
Tolaria West can be transmuted to find Summoner's Pact . You don't even have to worry about playing it since the many Karoo lands can bring it back later if needed.
As fantastic as a 8/6 PrimeTime is very often your opponent will just swing and kill you next turn. Going from almost no board presence into a 8/6 Vigilance Primeval Titan(Boros Garrison+Slayers' Stronghold) his swing grabbing (Vault of the Archangel[Card/]+Orzhov Basilica+two mana from somewhere else) stabilizes near any board state.
Been playing with the idea of Root Maze or Orb of Dreams to slow everyone else down while they do nothing to us.
Rampaging Baloths though less famous than Prime Time in this deck often does so much more work. Remember you have priority after playing a creature to drop land.
The fading lands (Tendo Ice Bridge & Gemstone Mine) get reset every time they bounce to your hand acting as unlimited filters for whatever odd mana you need.
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I've quit playing a month ago because the consistency issues and have not played the Hive Mind build. This deck is really weak after the boards. My meta also had a lot of Hatebears though and that deck just runs over this deck post-board.
It's an updated version of Brawl into an epic, new game.
Game plan is remove SSG to play amulet. Then cast summerbloom off of your kangaroo. Play the land either 1 more time and play amulet or play it 3 times and regrowth the bloom in some way to cast bloom again. From here you can tooth n nail a patron and a crab. This allows you to mill both libraries into the grave. Cast oonas grace to make them draw out. Easy.
Thanks for mentioning it, btw... and how could we have missed hivemind? I feel stupid now =(
And to go off what tog said, yeah, the deck "can" win turn 1. We tried to help it with PiF and Gifts so that it would have decent percentage going off in the turn 3 or 4 range... and then it kinda got filed away til wotc accidentally print us something we could use as summer blooms 5-8.
http://officeofstrategicinfluence.com/spam/ <---- kills spam, fyi.
First of all, this is really fun, but really skill intensive as well. A lot of math going on. Someone suggested Spinerock Knoll, and is hard to tell what hideaway land should we play. On one hand, Mosswort allows us to not rely on attacking, and that allows us not fetch Boros+Slayers, adding 4+ mana instead. On the other hand, it needs another creature (titan or Mage+the pair above), which sometimes we don't have. I would consider the Knoll, if we are fast enough and able to give 7+ damage.
I noticed, however, how tough is to get all we need in our hand. Amulet, Bloom and Titan is insane. However, missing one of them (usually one of the first, as the Titans we have 8) is fatal, and may take too long to get them. Why not Spoils of the Vault? Increasing the Fetchs count, it allows tutoring for the missing piece turn1 (even a growth chamber), increasing a lot the t2/3 win. Of course, it can kill and exile all good cards, but when I didn't get killed by it, I didn't miss the exiled cards.
Thought of the Month:
I gave up from trying to require the 'i' on my name: SolesticIo
Play bounceland
Both amulets of vigor trigger
you let one trigger resolve
tap for two mana
you let the other trigger resolve
tap for two mana
return bounceland to hand.
If you play a summer bloom with two amulets of vigor out, that is 4 mana per playing of the land, so 4x3=12 mana from summer bloom + 4 mana from the land drop you get per turn=16 mana. You can do a lot with 16 mana..
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
I've been goldfishing a lot and I can say two things: that I love the deck, and its 2nd turn explosiveness, and that I am missing something to push it next level. Here is the list I've been testing:
2 Breeding Pool
1 Dimir Aqueduct
1 Forest
1 Gemstone Mine
1 Golgari Rot Farm
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Mosswort Bridge
2 Overgrown Tomb
4 Simic Growth Chamber
1 Slayers' Stronghold
2 Spinerock Knoll
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Vesuva
4 Amulet of Vigor
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Spoils of the Vault
1 Echoing Truth
2 Muddle the Mixture
2 Phantasmal Image
4 Summer Bloom
1 Time of Need
2 Trade Routes
2 Trinket Mage
4 Primeval Titan
1 Patron of the Moon
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Thought of the Month:
I gave up from trying to require the 'i' on my name: SolesticIo
Land (27)
1x Boros Garrison
1x Forest
4x Gemstone Mine
4x Golgari Rot Farm
1x Gruul Turf
1x Kessig Wolf Run
4x Overgrown Tomb
2x Simic Growth Chamber
1x Slayers' Stronghold
4x Spinerock Knoll
1x Swamp
3x Vesuva
Sorcery (14)
4x Ancient Stirrings
4x Explore
4x Summer Bloom
2x Time Warp
Creature (8)
3x Azusa, Lost but Seeking
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4x Primeval Titan
Instant (7)
3x Spoils of the Vault
4x Summoner's Pact
Artifact (4)
4x Amulet of Vigor
Sideboard (15)
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2x Hive Mind
4x Serum Powder
4x Pact of Negation
4x Spellskite
At least, theoretically, is how I see it.
Time Warp, on the other hand, may be really good. It is a pseudo Emrakul, castable from hand, allowing to Hideaway more next turn.
Thought of the Month:
I gave up from trying to require the 'i' on my name: SolesticIo
Explore was fine for me, I could go either way on it.
Azusa was bad 99% of the time and acceptable 1% of the time. Overall not worth it imo.
I cut 2x Time Warps early on, once the deck gets going it easily wins, they felt very win-more.
I basically want every spell to cost 0-2cmc or be some kinda Titan-ish thing.
Patron of the Moon is secretly a monster in this deck too. I've won T2-3 multiple times with Patron and no Titans.
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I would never cut Time Warp, Hideaway'ing it after you attacked with your titan means you've won usually, the only things I want to Hideaway when attacking with a Titan are Time Warp, Emrakul, or another Titan to grab more Hideaway's to cast more Time Warp's, Emrakul if I haven't, or more Titans.
Explore isn't Summerbloom, but we need to play additional lands, and it nets a cards, it's fine.
Azusa's fine, turn 4 play her off the mana from your lands, and then use a bounce land 3 times to generate 6 mana and cast your Titan.
Yes, Time Warp seems the Titan/Emrakul 6-7 to hideaway. Why do we need to play additional lands? Usually I don't want to play all my Karoos and playing only one is useless. And 4th turn is what I said to be a turn later. I think this is able to win t2/3. Also, they can kill azusa in response to Amulet/Bounce triggers, avoiding the other land drops.
Thought of the Month:
I gave up from trying to require the 'i' on my name: SolesticIo
I do things like Bounce my Hideaways/Vesuva's and then play explore/summerbloom/Asuza to play those Hideaways/Vesuva's to continue comboing hideaways.
Of course, but Explore and Azusa don't help go off. That's my concern, as I want to have all pieces as soon as possible.
Thought of the Month:
I gave up from trying to require the 'i' on my name: SolesticIo
You have Summoner's Pact, Wargate, and Spoils of the Vault to be more consistent, not sure if anything else is worth it. Gemstone Mine for mana consistency.
4x Lotus Cobra
4x Primeval Titan
4x Summoner's Pact
4x Amulet of Vigor
3x Ancient stirrings
4x Serum Visions
4x Explore
4x Remand
4x Summer Bloom
2x Hive mind
2x Boros Garrison
1x Breeding Pool
2x Forest
2x Island
4x Misty Rainforest
1x Sejiri Steppe
2x Selesnya Sanctuary
3x Simic Growth Chamber
1x Slayers' Stronghold
1x Sunhome, Fortress of the legion
1x Teetering Peaks
1x Temple garden
1x Treetop village
3x Dispel
1x Gut shot
3x Noxious revival
2x Spellskite
2x Suppresion field
2x Ghostly Prison
2x Hive Mind
I don't like the hideaway lands because it seems to me that to be able to use them I must have already done the titan + bounce + amulet combo and in that case I prefer to just kill with the titan.
Also I don't really understand the whole Patron of the moon combo very well. Anyway, opinions on my decklist are appreciated.
1x Boros Garrison
2x Cavern of Souls
1x Darksteel Citadel
2x Forest
4x Gemstone Mine
1x Golgari Rot Farm
1x Orzhov Basilica
2x Selesnya Sanctuary
4x Simic Growth Chamber
1x Slayers' Stronghold
4x Tendo Ice Bridge
2x Tolaria West
1x Vault of the Archangel
4x Azusa, Lost but Seeking
1x Emeria Angel
2x Primeval Titan
1x Rampaging Baloths
3x Sakura-Tribe Scout
3x Trinket Mage
Sorcery (9)
4x Slight of hand
4x Summer Bloom
1x Wargate
4x Amulet of Vigor
2x Engineered Explosives
Instant (4)
4x Summoner's Pact
Tolaria West can be transmuted to find Summoner's Pact . You don't even have to worry about playing it since the many Karoo lands can bring it back later if needed.
As fantastic as a 8/6 PrimeTime is very often your opponent will just swing and kill you next turn. Going from almost no board presence into a 8/6 Vigilance Primeval Titan(Boros Garrison+Slayers' Stronghold) his swing grabbing (Vault of the Archangel[Card/]+Orzhov Basilica+two mana from somewhere else) stabilizes near any board state.
Been playing with the idea of Root Maze or Orb of Dreams to slow everyone else down while they do nothing to us.
Darksteel Citadel so that Trinket Mage has more friends. Engineered Explosives does amazing things to hold off anyone else, doesn't hurt that this is a 5 color deck.
Rampaging Baloths though less famous than Prime Time in this deck often does so much more work. Remember you have priority after playing a creature to drop land.
The fading lands (Tendo Ice Bridge & Gemstone Mine) get reset every time they bounce to your hand acting as unlimited filters for whatever odd mana you need.